NYT: Black Churches Struggle Over Their Role in Politics

[DeepModem Mom]

Black Churches Struggle Over Their Role in Politics
By NEELA BANERJEE
Published: March 6, 2005


A tug of war is under way inside black churches over who speaks for African-Americans and what role to play in politics, spurred by conservative black clergy members who are looking to align themselves more closely with President Bush.

The struggle, mainly among black Protestants, is taking place in pulpits, church conventions, on op-ed pages and on the airwaves, and the president himself began his second term with a meeting in the White House with black clergy members and civic leaders who supported his re-election....

***

At the heart of the debate, church leaders say, is whether to stay focused primarily on issues like job creation, education, affirmative action, prison reform and health care, which have drawn blacks closer to the Democratic Party, or whether to put more emphasis on issues of personal morality, like opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage, which would place them deeper in the Republican camp....

***

.... the White House has been reaching out to sympathetic black clergy members - through its stand on social issues, its effort to give religious groups more of a role in providing federally financed social services and ideas like Mr. Bush's proposed initiative to counter gang violence, a concern of some black ministers who support him, like the Rev. Eugene F. Rivers of Dorchester, Mass.

Although only 11 percent of black voters cast ballots for Mr. Bush, according to surveys of voters leaving the polls, conservatives point out that it was still an increase from the 8 percent in 2000, and Republicans seek to expand those numbers....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/06/politics/06clergy.html

[Nothing Without Hope]

1. An important development - see this related story posted Jan 30

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3028916
Thread title: Black Baptists for 1st time in History Unite & Oppose Smirk Policies

The story was reported in the Chicago Tribune (link in the thread) and is an unprecedented demonstration of unity among the 4 historically divided Black Baptist Churches, representing a total of about 15,000,000 church members. The article and the thread are well worth looking through.

[DeepModem Mom]

2. Thanks, NWH!

[Nothing Without Hope]

3. I just can't get over the wrong-headedness of it. Is there MEDIA BIAS?

At the heart of the debate, church leaders say, is whether to stay focused primarily on issues like job creation, education, affirmative action, prison reform and health care, which have drawn blacks closer to the Democratic Party, or whether to put more emphasis on issues of personal morality, like opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage, which would place them deeper in the Republican camp....

How ANYONE could still see the neocons as having the moral high ground is beyond me utterly. We as progressive activists need to do a better job of getting the truth out, in an end-run around the partisan corporate media. The fact the people are still believing these Administration lies is heartbreaking. They are being played for fools, acting against their own interest in every way.

However, I suspect that the corporate media are reporting this issue in a way that is biased to some extent, perhaps quite strongly. At the same time we read about the historic Black Baptist rapprochement we see articles like this NYT one and also this one from Feb 1, which was apparently discussed on CBS:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1555313
Title: Black Churches in LA meet today/move toward GOP

QUESTION: To what extent are these articles which stress black church membership moving against their own interest toward the GOP based on the TRUE trends? Clearly, they would have propaganda value in helping to convince devout church members to reconsider their opposition to the Administration. I think the truth may not be so rosy for the GOP backers of these media.

[wildeyed]

5. I don't know how real these trends are.

Are they really happening, or just one of those media/echo chamber/talking points things? I don't really know. I am not hooked in enough to the subtleties of church politics to be able to say. But I thought this quote was really interesting.

But they also raise questions about the conservatives in their own ranks, accusing them of being seduced by Mr. Bush's "faith-based initiatives" program to funnel federal monies to church-run social service programs and asking how much sway they really have.

"Where did this come from?" said the Rev. Madison Shockley, pastor of the Pilgrim United Church of Christ in Carlsbad, Calif., who with Mr. Calloway wrote an opinion article in The Los Angeles Times in response to the "Black Contract With America." "It came from Bush and the Christian right, and the carrot is faith-based money."

[Nothing Without Hope]

7. Yes. We have political bribery on a massive scale paid for with tax money

"It came from Bush and the Christian right, and the carrot is faith-based money."

How insidious - the cartel is seeking to induce these religious leaders to quite literally sell their souls. I suppose they expect success, since it surely worked with the fundies.

Thanks for pointing this out - it's the key piece in the puzzle, the carrot of money, and I suppose also the smaller carrot of attention and the other arts of seduction. The neocon monsters have succeeded so far by corruption and now, with the "faith-based initiatives" they can extend their sway while our country's citizens, including those they are trying to seduce, pay for the bribes.

And the corporate media, of course, will help the process along if they can.

Amazing how the RW fundie religious leaders have ignored what they pretend to base their ministries on. Didn't they ever read what Jesus said about hypocrites? That passage about "whited sepulchres" dosn't leave any doubt there and is quite shocking in its angry intensity, coming from such a gentle, tolerant man. And about the money-changers in the Temple? He whipped them out himself -- again, shockingly clear as a statement. Jesus said nothing about gays, but he did speak loudly and clearly about what the blivet** cartel and their fundie cronies are about. The Black Church leaders being lured by the Bush/Saudi/Neocon cartel need to consider this. Like one line from the hilarious-but-all-too-true animation "Becoming Republican,"
"As a Republican, you must love, worship and ignore Jesus."

(By the way, if you haven't seen "Becoming Republican," don't miss it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1640702)

I hope this thread is reposted in a Forum or Group where it will be seen by more people involved with the Black Churches; as a Latest thread it will be pretty invisible once it sinks. There is something very ugly going on here and it needs the light of exposure.

[wildeyed]

9. I will re-post in AA Affairs group.

Would it fit in Religion and Theology, too?

[Nothing Without Hope]

13. There are at least two others that would fit even better, in my opinion

I'm ALWAYS happy to give my opinions! :) And here they are:

I think it should definitely be reposted in the Religious Freedom & Church-State Issues Forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=226
and that a thread title could be chosen to emphasize the issue of what is basically bribery to seduce support of the black church leaders. It's obviously part of the major pattern of church/state crossover (in both directions - people like Rev Moon and the RW Fundies are giving to political causes) as a political strategy by this administration.

It also fits in the Race & Equality Forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=225
In fact there is already a related article there:
Great article on the Black Evangelicals voting for bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=225x203

Judging by the articles I've scanned in the Religion and Theology Forum, the fit is less obvious there except for the theological aspects of the issue, which are certainly real. I would recommend waiting to see if that side of things comes out in comments in the other threads, and if they do, then posting a thread in this torum using the NYT article as just one part of the story would be a good thing - again in my opinion.

Good luck! This is important and needs to be more widely seen.

Edited to add: I would also suggest first checking with the original poster to see if she also has plans to repost in other Forums.

[CindyDale]

4. Right wing is continuing its efforts to bribe the clergy

through the government (our tax dollars) now as well as their foundations so the clergy will help divide the people with these wedge nonissues.

[wildeyed]

6. This is the argument against the constitutional ban on same-sex marriage

that I will begin using with my christian, socially conservative friends.

At his White Rock Baptist Church, Dr. Shaw has spoken out against a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. He says he does not believe that the Bible permits such unions, but he pointedly rejects a government ban on them.

"My position on same-sex marriage is not that it is the sole determinant on moral issues," Dr. Shaw said. "Marriage is threatened more by adultery, and we don't have a constitutional ban on that. Alcohol is a threat to the stability of family, and we don't have a constitutional ban on that."

We need a constitutionally ban on adultery before we have one on same sex marriage. Excellent common sense thinking.

[Stuckinthebush]

8. A friend of mine in Alabama

who is a member of a large black congregation told me that her pastor and many others were flown to DC to encourage them to push GW in 2004. She also believes they were paid well to do it. She and other members of her congregation are extremely angry about this.

[Nothing Without Hope]

10. WOW! I think I am seeing the tip of a very ugly iceberg here

and the whole thing needs to be exposed for what it is: corruption and bribery, with public money yet. This is a criminal act on so many levels.

[GettysbergII]

11. Here's the Black Commentator's bird's eye lowdown on this caper

Purchases Pulpits and Spiritual Exploitations
by Jasmyne Cannick

http://www.blackcommentator.com/128/128_think_pulpits.html

Few remember, that there were significant members of the Black church including the National Baptist Convention led by Dr. J.H. Jackson in the 50's that vehemently opposed the civil rights movement and didn't want progressive ministers like Dr. King to have any confrontations with the government. So much so, that was one of the major factors in Dr. King's decision to create the Southern Christian Leadership Conference along with Los Angeles ministers Reverend James Lawson and the late Dr. Thomas Kilgore.

These Black pastors who have aligned themselves with white Christian evangelicals and Conservatives, are the ideological descendents of the same people who opposed Dr. King in the 50's but today want to claim his message as their own in the name of protecting the institution of marriage, thereby giving new meaning to the name "Uncle Tom."

[American Tragedy]

12. It's not about personal morality, it's about government power and control

Should the government punitively enforce religious principles or some arbitrary definition of the status quo on consenting adults? Or should it be a decision to be made of one's free will, between themselves and God, without the external compulsion of temporal law?

My view:

If you think abortion is wrong, don't have one.

If you think gay marriage is wrong, don't have one.

If you think marijuana is wrong, don't use it.

If you think vulgar language and sexual content on television is wrong, don't watch it.

If you sincerely believe that it is a mistake for individuals to do these things, then tell them. Hold demonstrations. Wave your God Hates Fags banners. Or don't associate with them. But don't impose your lifestyle upon others via the government and law enforcement officials.

[Nothing Without Hope]

14. kick! n/t