white_wolf
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Mon Oct-10-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
| 59. You do realize that democracy itself has failed several times throughout human history, correct? |
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The original Greek democracies degraded into various tyrannies, the Roman Republic became the Roman Empire, the French Revolution gave us Robespierre, the Terror, and Napoleon, various democratic revolutions throughout Europe were put down.
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| -It's a given that some form of Socialism is a better system |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:26 PM |
#0 |
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We could start with the guillotine for the Let Them Eat Cake crowd. nt |
valerief |
Oct-10-11 07:27 PM |
#1 |
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hehe |
leftstreet |
Oct-10-11 07:28 PM |
#3 |
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Who's at the top of your list for execution, Valerie? |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:28 PM |
#4 |
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The four greatest mass murders in history |
Nederland |
Oct-10-11 07:40 PM |
#14 |
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+100 |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:46 PM |
#19 |
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You'll find out that self-identification does not amount to a hill of beans. |
Zanzoobar |
Oct-10-11 07:50 PM |
#25 |
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Then please enlighten us... |
Nederland |
Oct-10-11 08:14 PM |
#45 |
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Socialism is where the working class holds power. They held power in none of those instances. |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 08:17 PM |
#46 |
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Is there anywhere the working class holds the power? |
Zanzoobar |
Oct-10-11 08:19 PM |
#48 |
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Currently no. |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 08:26 PM |
#50 |
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Let us make an assumption... |
Zanzoobar |
Oct-10-11 08:31 PM |
#51 |
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It really depends on which branch of socialism we are talking about. |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 08:36 PM |
#53 |
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Take a look at the 17th amendment |
Zanzoobar |
Oct-10-11 08:44 PM |
#55 |
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Isn't that telling? |
Nederland |
Oct-10-11 09:04 PM |
#57 |
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You do realize that democracy itself has failed several times throughout human history, correct? |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 09:12 PM |
#59 |
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Yes I do realize that |
Nederland |
Oct-10-11 10:18 PM |
#69 |
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There is no form of state socialism where the working class holds power. |
joshcryer |
Oct-10-11 10:09 PM |
#66 |
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Surely, you can define socialism? |
Zanzoobar |
Oct-10-11 08:18 PM |
#47 |
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No problem |
Nederland |
Oct-10-11 09:01 PM |
#56 |
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State owned |
Zanzoobar |
Oct-10-11 09:06 PM |
#58 |
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So what do we do if and when the ruling class uses violence against us? |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 07:52 PM |
#26 |
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Non-violence worked pretty well for Gandhi and MLK |
Nederland |
Oct-10-11 07:55 PM |
#30 |
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It did, didn't it? nt. |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:57 PM |
#33 |
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Non-violence only works when the alternative is worse. |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 07:59 PM |
#35 |
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And how is that any different than today? |
Nederland |
Oct-10-11 08:08 PM |
#42 |
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That's debatable. Neither of them can even touch the mass murder |
Fool Count |
Oct-10-11 07:54 PM |
#28 |
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And endless war |
valerief |
Oct-10-11 07:55 PM |
#31 |
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And the destruction of our environment that could very well wipe us all out. |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 07:57 PM |
#34 |
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War fallout does that. Fracking does that. Nuclear waste does that. Oil industry does that. |
valerief |
Oct-10-11 08:00 PM |
#37 |
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You forgot your sarcasm thingie |
FrodosPet |
Oct-10-11 08:00 PM |
# |
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This time robiespierre goes first |
Riftaxe |
Oct-10-11 09:42 PM |
#63 |
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And now, I turn the thread over to everyone else. |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:27 PM |
#2 |
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My suggestion: start networking for a 'parallel' vote for... |
Amonester |
Oct-10-11 09:20 PM |
#61 |
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80% Capitalism 20% Socialism |
banned from Kos |
Oct-10-11 07:31 PM |
#5 |
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How do we get there? That's not a step, it's a goal. |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:32 PM |
#7 |
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How is that going to work? |
Zanzoobar |
Oct-10-11 07:49 PM |
#23 |
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If you're afraid 'millions will die,' better to stick with Capitalism n/t |
leftstreet |
Oct-10-11 07:31 PM |
#6 |
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I'm not a big fan of millions of people dying, to tell you the truth. |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:33 PM |
#8 |
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How will these 'millions' die if Capitalism is defeated? |
leftstreet |
Oct-10-11 07:37 PM |
#11 |
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How does it get defeated? You're still skipping all the steps that |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:39 PM |
#13 |
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If we had Single Payer NonProfit healthcare, would people die? |
leftstreet |
Oct-10-11 07:42 PM |
#15 |
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I've supported Single Payer Healthcare for years. So how do we |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:44 PM |
#18 |
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You don't know that you have to remove the profit-takers? Yet you've read Marx and Engels? |
leftstreet |
Oct-10-11 07:46 PM |
#20 |
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There are many ways to remove the "profit-takers." |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:47 PM |
#22 |
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So you're back to being for it? Er... n/t |
leftstreet |
Oct-10-11 07:55 PM |
#29 |
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Again, I'll answer your question when you answer mine. |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:59 PM |
#36 |
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Your vigorous construction of Strawmen makes me think Obama has released his Jobs Program |
leftstreet |
Oct-10-11 08:11 PM |
#44 |
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It's a long journey IMO, but I think OWS is a good start if the momentum can |
RKP5637 |
Oct-10-11 07:35 PM |
#9 |
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Yes, it's interesting, and I admire the spirit of those who are there. |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:38 PM |
#12 |
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Definitely, a plan will need to be in the works soon with an articulated doable goal set, because |
RKP5637 |
Oct-10-11 07:54 PM |
#27 |
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They've already started to co-opt it. Yup. |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:57 PM |
#32 |
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No, I didn't see that poll, I had no idea it was that low, none at all. Maybe this |
RKP5637 |
Oct-10-11 08:05 PM |
#40 |
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Can you blame them for not voting? |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 08:08 PM |
#43 |
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Start Nationalizing things of extreme importance to the continuity and prosperity of our country. |
FarLeftFist |
Oct-10-11 07:36 PM |
#10 |
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Right now, that's not something that can be done within the current |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:42 PM |
#16 |
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My gut feeling is capitalism will eventually implode on this current course. The |
RKP5637 |
Oct-10-11 07:43 PM |
#17 |
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You cannot nationalize anything without just compensation. Constitution would need to be modified. |
joshcryer |
Oct-10-11 10:10 PM |
#67 |
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We could get creative. |
white_wolf |
Oct-10-11 10:14 PM |
#68 |
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Sure, but that's trillions of dollars in liquidity that the government couldn't pay back. |
joshcryer |
Oct-10-11 10:53 PM |
#70 |
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taxation on wealth over x amt is a start |
RainDog |
Oct-10-11 07:46 PM |
#21 |
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That seems pretty distant right now. We can't even get people |
MineralMan |
Oct-10-11 07:49 PM |
#24 |
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The majority of people in this nation are not opposed to taxes on the wealthy |
RainDog |
Oct-10-11 08:23 PM |
#49 |
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I'd settle for equal rights for labor vs capital |
yurbud |
Oct-10-11 08:00 PM |
#38 |
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Support unions, for one... |
War Horse |
Oct-10-11 08:00 PM |
#39 |
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One word: Co-ops. |
Odin2005 |
Oct-10-11 08:07 PM |
#41 |
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Existing model |
Jim Warren |
Oct-10-11 08:36 PM |
#52 |
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we use the Swedish/Norway blueprint as best we can |
StarsInHerHair |
Oct-10-11 08:40 PM |
#54 |
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The nordic countries have a capitalist economic system, too. |
Honeycombe8 |
Oct-10-11 09:14 PM |
#60 |
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I'd say we need to shift to a multi-party parliamentary system. |
wickerwoman |
Oct-10-11 09:23 PM |
#62 |
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it's not one-size-fits-all |
procon |
Oct-10-11 10:07 PM |
#64 |
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But how would you address the problem of finite resources? |
wickerwoman |
Oct-10-11 11:36 PM |
#71 |
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The last thing you want is the government taking over the means of production. LAST THING. |
joshcryer |
Oct-10-11 10:07 PM |
#65 |
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I don't think it is a given. Socialism is based on unit labor, just like capitalism |
JCMach1 |
Oct-10-11 11:48 PM |
#72 |
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