laughingliberal
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Fri Nov-13-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #152 |
| 163. I am so weary of the argument that hospitals have to provide life saving treatment |
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regardless of ability to pay. Emergency rooms are required only to 'stabilize' a patient. If they can't find evidence the person is in immediate danger of death, they dump them right back out that door with a note on the chart. I can't begin to count the number of patients, without insurance, who were turned loose by an emergency room after going in for chest pain. The ER did an EKG and sent them home. When I was in nursing school it was known that an EKG will not necessarily show the damage of a heart attack for up to 24 hours. The protocol was: admit the patient on continuous monitoring; draw cardiac enzymes every 8 hours for 24 hours. But those without insurance are given a perfunctory EKG which shows no damage and cardiac enzymes are drawn (which will likely not elevate for several hours after the heart attack) and the patient is sent home with a diagnosis of GI disturbance. Some have been lucky enough to live for a few days and return when the damage is obvious and get some help but many die before they can return.
With this in mind, I'm wondering how a woman whose life is in danger due to a pregnancy is going to get help through an emergency room. Perhaps if she shows up just at the right time (like while she's in the process of bleeding to death or when her blood pressure skyrockets from toxemia) they might stabilize her but by then it will probably be too late in the pregnancy to terminate. And all that is just IF she manages to get there while in a life threatening emergency and before she is deceased.
|
| -Obama triumph ahead |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 02:21 PM |
#0 |
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k & r |
HopeOverFear |
Nov-12-09 02:22 PM |
#1 |
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Will you still support the HCR bill if the Stupak language remains in the final bill? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 02:23 PM |
#2 |
 -
I'm optimistic it will be removed. nt |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 02:27 PM |
#3 |
  -
But that, as you know , was not the question. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 02:55 PM |
#5 |
   -
Yes I will; it will still help loads of people, and selfishly, |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 03:04 PM |
#7 |
  -
It is brave of you to admit that ... |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 03:31 PM |
#10 |
   -
Thanks for the lecture; coming from you it's positively laughable. nt |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 03:33 PM |
#11 |
    -
You are the one willing to delegate 50 years of fighting for womens rights to the scrap heap. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 03:36 PM |
#13 |
   -
I guess that makes you the one sentencing those without health insurance to death |
DrToast |
Nov-12-09 03:58 PM |
#16 |
    -
Trading one groups civil rights for another's? No not me, that would be you. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 04:01 PM |
#17 |
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We all hope the Stupak language is removed, but if it's not |
ecstatic |
Nov-12-09 05:44 PM |
#29 |
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Bullshit. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 06:38 PM |
#33 |
    -
I am a woman who has spent 98% of my life uninsured, |
ecstatic |
Nov-12-09 06:54 PM |
#34 |
     -
Apparently only your opinion matters. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 07:59 PM |
#39 |
    -
In other words, this isn't about choice. This is about your hatred for the insurance industry |
ecstatic |
Nov-12-09 08:04 PM |
#42 |
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I will lecture you, or any other Faux Democrat who shills this bill. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 08:10 PM |
#44 |
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If a "faux Democrat" = someone with a pre-existing condition then guilty as charged |
ecstatic |
Nov-12-09 08:28 PM |
#45 |
       -
Exactly what, and who's rights are you willing to trade for less than mediocre health coverage? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 09:11 PM |
#49 |
       -
I am a Real Democrat with a preexisting condition and I will NOT support this Bill if Stupak is not |
saracat |
Nov-13-09 02:14 PM |
#128 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-12-09 09:05 PM |
#47 |
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God is in fact , fiction, therefore he could not be an asshole. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 09:09 PM |
#48 |
       -
This health care bill is a nice piece of "speculative fiction" is it not? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 09:27 PM |
#51 |
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So lets talk about the amendment, - again |
demwing |
Nov-13-09 06:02 AM |
#56 |
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Really? Defend it please. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 07:01 AM |
#60 |
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Let's be specific |
demwing |
Nov-13-09 10:53 AM |
#83 |
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It in ,effect does just that. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:45 AM |
#92 |
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That's correct |
demwing |
Nov-13-09 04:26 PM |
#158 |
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The bill doesn't require insurance cos. to cover birth control. |
Hello_Kitty |
Nov-13-09 10:56 PM |
#165 |
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As a female who will probably be helped by this bill, I oppose it |
Tansy_Gold |
Nov-13-09 02:23 PM |
#130 |
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Right on. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 03:57 PM |
#147 |
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Hi Tansy Gold. Beautifully stated, as always! |
saracat |
Nov-15-09 02:04 PM |
#169 |
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Coming from a male-laughable. nt |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 07:37 PM |
#36 |
   -
You support the Bill with the stupak amendment. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 07:52 PM |
#38 |
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No, I care about millions of people who will be covered under the bill |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 08:00 PM |
#40 |
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But you are OK with the Stupak amendment. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 08:06 PM |
#43 |
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Just be sure and let folks know what YOU think. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 09:30 AM |
#68 |
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So if it came from a woman you would take it seriously? Gender biased much? n/t |
poverlay |
Nov-13-09 09:29 AM |
#67 |
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Than this bill? Yes. I CAN elaborate, but I'm presently busy drinking a beer. |
pattmarty |
Nov-13-09 11:52 AM |
#97 |
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Touche. |
timeforpeace |
Nov-12-09 05:16 PM |
#23 |
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50? More like 50,000 |
elehhhhna |
Nov-12-09 05:22 PM |
#24 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-13-09 06:51 AM |
#59 |
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i find it hillarious, that in order to rationalize that you guys are a tiny minority on this board, |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 08:34 AM |
#65 |
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Minority? Do you seriously think the majority of Democrats on this board think |
saracat |
Nov-13-09 01:56 PM |
#123 |
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no, no one here thinks the stupak ammendment is good. however, most, at least many, |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 02:48 PM |
#138 |
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Many of us understand that it is much worse than an extension of the Hyde Amendment |
saracat |
Nov-13-09 03:46 PM |
#143 |
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hyperbole fail. |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 08:31 AM |
#64 |
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Let's be clear. Those 50 years of fighting are not in danger of being consigned to the scrap heap. |
stopbush |
Nov-13-09 03:05 PM |
#139 |
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Exactly |
spiritual_gunfighter |
Nov-13-09 06:12 AM |
#57 |
  -
Are you aware that people with pre-existing conditions can be charged higher premiums |
Garam_Masala |
Nov-13-09 01:04 PM |
#112 |
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Hi babylonsister ~ I like your style |
goclark |
Nov-13-09 01:47 PM |
#120 |
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No. And people I trust say they are going to get it out. Harkin, Clyburne, etc Additionally I |
emulatorloo |
Nov-12-09 05:05 PM |
#21 |
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But it seems that the 'bishops" have a direct line to the "hill". |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 05:13 PM |
#22 |
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Well then we disagree. Only 30ish Dems voted for it in the house. |
emulatorloo |
Nov-12-09 05:26 PM |
#25 |
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You underestimate the strength of this stalking-horse. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 09:19 AM |
#66 |
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The Stupak amendment did exactly what it was designed to do; shift our |
Lorien |
Nov-13-09 09:44 AM |
#69 |
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Until it passes, then it is coat hangers and blood. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 12:00 PM |
#102 |
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You're fucking ridiculous |
Egnever |
Nov-13-09 03:41 PM |
#141 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-13-09 10:34 PM |
#164 |
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K & R |
Tigermoose |
Nov-12-09 02:48 PM |
#4 |
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It's so cool to know who the OP is just by the title of a thread! |
timeforpeace |
Nov-12-09 10:46 PM |
#52 |
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People don't seem to realize that |
ProSense |
Nov-12-09 03:03 PM |
#6 |
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I realize that; this bill is far from perfect, but it's very important to |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 03:06 PM |
#8 |
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How about you, ProSense? Are you willing to answer "the question" |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 03:34 PM |
#12 |
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I am willing to choose to support the bill with the Stupak amendment |
27inCali |
Nov-12-09 05:39 PM |
#27 |
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Don't care what you think, even though that line is crap.(You really should re-think that) |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 09:21 PM |
#50 |
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man, you're rude to everybody, aren't you? you sure must be fun to hang out with. |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 09:53 AM |
#73 |
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Keep "rolling" it's easier to "take it" when your already on the floor. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 10:01 AM |
#77 |
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Cough, Ahem. You really aren't in any position to make that charge |
saracat |
Nov-13-09 01:58 PM |
#124 |
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"Apparently only your opinion matters." |
Qutzupalotl |
Nov-13-09 11:23 AM |
#86 |
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too bad the question was directed to another. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:50 AM |
#95 |
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Thanks for proving my point. |
Qutzupalotl |
Nov-13-09 12:39 PM |
#109 |
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ask a question, I'll answer, spout "points" I'll do as I wish. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 01:46 PM |
#118 |
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Well, that's a day-brightener. Thank you, babs. It gives me hope we can even get rid of Stupak... |
Hekate |
Nov-12-09 03:08 PM |
#9 |
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But that does not really matter, does it? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 03:39 PM |
#14 |
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Nice Post |
Roosesvelte |
Nov-12-09 03:52 PM |
#15 |
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I hope so, and welcome to DU Roosesvelte! |
babylonsister |
Nov-12-09 04:02 PM |
#18 |
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Thanks! |
Roosesvelte |
Nov-12-09 04:23 PM |
#19 |
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This is a CLASSIC example of what's wrong with America- and why you're headed for 3rd world status |
depakid |
Nov-12-09 04:30 PM |
#20 |
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"This debate (and others) ought to be about effective public policy- but it's not." |
ProSense |
Nov-12-09 05:28 PM |
#26 |
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Nope- for most ordinary people and the corporate media that sways them it's- he won she lost |
depakid |
Nov-12-09 05:43 PM |
#28 |
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Telling, your point really isn't about how seriously people took the discussion, but |
ProSense |
Nov-12-09 06:14 PM |
#30 |
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You're getting lousy policy and all the VAST majority cares about is who "won" and "lost" |
depakid |
Nov-12-09 06:22 PM |
#31 |
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Lousy is your opinion. n/t |
ProSense |
Nov-12-09 06:58 PM |
#35 |
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No thems the facts. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-12-09 08:01 PM |
#41 |
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No, ProSense is correct. The legislation is good enough for a start. |
stevietheman |
Nov-13-09 12:08 AM |
#53 |
  -
bull. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 07:02 AM |
#62 |
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I realize it |
spiritual_gunfighter |
Nov-13-09 06:17 AM |
#58 |
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Lap dogs. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 07:02 AM |
#61 |
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Yep. In the end we see no positive changes. The corporations just |
Lorien |
Nov-13-09 09:47 AM |
#70 |
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The President said in no uncertain terms that the health bill "would not fund abortion." |
mistertrickster |
Nov-12-09 06:27 PM |
#32 |
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Does it cover Viagra? |
1corona4u |
Nov-13-09 05:52 AM |
#55 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-13-09 07:03 AM |
#63 |
  -
I live in Wichita. I used to protest in front of now dead George Tiller's clinic against the antis. |
mistertrickster |
Nov-13-09 09:48 AM |
#71 |
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i'm starting to think these guys don't even give a rat's ass about the ammendment. i think it's |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 09:52 AM |
#72 |
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Your are foolish. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 10:00 AM |
#75 |
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no, i'd rather save lives while you wait for a perfect bill that will never exist. |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 10:24 AM |
#80 |
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How much worse can it get and still win your support?? (Real question) |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:24 AM |
#87 |
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if the senate can't get a public option, i'd say it's not worth the effort. |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 11:34 AM |
#89 |
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Triggered?? Opt out?? Co-ops?? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:39 AM |
#90 |
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triggers never get triggered, co-opts don't have a big enough pool to be good. |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 11:44 AM |
#91 |
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But you would be OK with a veto? how is that materially different from my position? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:47 AM |
#94 |
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i believe it's different in that you think the house bill with it's imperfect public option is worse |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 11:52 AM |
#98 |
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We have a difference in the threshold of when a bill is "not worth the bother" |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:57 AM |
#100 |
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well, in my opinion, the letting people die thing happens if a bill WITH a public option, albeit |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 12:03 PM |
#103 |
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and i say there a still needless deaths with the House bill. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 12:08 PM |
#106 |
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i am pragmatic or cynical enough not to be satisfied with, but at least thankful for, anything good |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 12:31 PM |
#108 |
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"the political climate we have" ????? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 01:50 PM |
#121 |
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we have blue dogs and house members that were too bought off or |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 02:24 PM |
#132 |
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My point is that a push to change that fact is a winning strategy. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 02:27 PM |
#133 |
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i agree that single payer is the way to go. if we could get congress to vote the way they should |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 02:32 PM |
#134 |
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Push for it and change congress. If not now, when? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 02:35 PM |
#135 |
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i wholehearted agree we need better dems in office. we also need to educate the voters in |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 02:44 PM |
#137 |
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Why are we arguing? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 03:47 PM |
#144 |
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um... cause it's GD:P!!111 |
dionysus |
Nov-13-09 07:09 PM |
#162 |
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The stupak bill goes too far. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 09:56 AM |
#74 |
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He said federal funds would not be used to fund abortion |
laughingliberal |
Nov-13-09 01:40 PM |
#117 |
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No, it doesn't do that at all |
demwing |
Nov-13-09 04:29 PM |
#160 |
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It's not a great bill - but I do hope it's seen as a triumph for Obama. nt |
polichick |
Nov-12-09 07:49 PM |
#37 |
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Thanks babylonsister for |
Cha |
Nov-12-09 08:58 PM |
#46 |
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Cosgrove at Cleveland Clinic says it will do little to control escalating costs. |
Kolesar |
Nov-13-09 05:05 AM |
#54 |
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That is irrelevant, we need a "win" |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 10:00 AM |
#76 |
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For the most part, I'll stay out of the line of fire in this thread. |
Altoid_Cyclist |
Nov-13-09 12:11 PM |
#107 |
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I love this article, babylonsister. Very cool. |
BlancheSplanchnik |
Nov-13-09 10:07 AM |
#78 |
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And he's proud of this? |
Beacool |
Nov-13-09 10:07 AM |
#79 |
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Unlike some, he isn't a bitter sore loser when it comes to supporting HCR & the President. |
ClarkUSA |
Nov-13-09 04:10 PM |
#153 |
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The easily fooled are the enemy of the good and right thing to do. n/t |
change_notfinetuning |
Nov-13-09 10:34 AM |
#81 |
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The traveler in casual shoes offers nothing to the drifting ambergris. n/t |
NYC_SKP |
Nov-13-09 11:00 AM |
#84 |
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Thank You Babylonsiter for this article and viewpoint. |
stubtoe |
Nov-13-09 10:51 AM |
#82 |
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Obama triumph ahead |
Andronex |
Nov-13-09 11:16 AM |
#85 |
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Very good point. That is the heart of the problem.We need real health care |
saracat |
Nov-13-09 02:23 PM |
#131 |
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And the insurance industry hates the bill |
ProSense |
Nov-13-09 11:29 AM |
#88 |
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ProSense loves it, even with the Stupak language. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 12:05 PM |
#104 |
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INSURANCE INDUSTRY: don't throw me in the briar patch |
frylock |
Nov-13-09 01:35 PM |
#116 |
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Yeah, sure. The "triumph" will be; pass a shit bill and declare victory. |
pattmarty |
Nov-13-09 11:46 AM |
#93 |
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But the Rose Garden ceremony will be wonderful!!! |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:51 AM |
#96 |
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I hope they hang around to help with the 2010 and 2012 elections.......... |
pattmarty |
Nov-13-09 11:57 AM |
#99 |
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I do not understand why "we" do not see that STRONG HCR, yes, even Single Payer. Is a WINNING issue! |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 11:58 AM |
#101 |
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I'll disagree on the single payer issue. Where we are at NOW.......... |
pattmarty |
Nov-13-09 12:06 PM |
#105 |
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List for me the 218 reps and 60 Senators that would ever conceivably vote for Medicare for All. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Nov-13-09 12:45 PM |
#110 |
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I think pushing it in the 2012 midterms is a winning play. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 02:04 PM |
#126 |
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I agree with this . . . |
h9socialist |
Nov-13-09 12:54 PM |
#111 |
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I take issue with this statement |
peace frog |
Nov-13-09 01:04 PM |
#113 |
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"Obama triumph ahead" |
unaffiliated liberal |
Nov-13-09 01:06 PM |
#114 |
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+1 |
jgraz |
Nov-13-09 02:07 PM |
#127 |
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But is getting a bad bill passed really that great? |
winyanstaz |
Nov-13-09 01:32 PM |
#115 |
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It is if all you care about is politics |
jgraz |
Nov-13-09 02:02 PM |
#125 |
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thats what I think too.. |
winyanstaz |
Nov-13-09 03:08 PM |
#140 |
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The victory is very important as it springboards the ability for Pres. Obama to get more things done |
ProgressOnTheMove |
Nov-13-09 01:47 PM |
#119 |
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And unicorns will once again inhabit the earth. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 01:54 PM |
#122 |
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More "reform" done badly? |
unaffiliated liberal |
Nov-13-09 02:16 PM |
#129 |
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What does an abortion procedure cost these days? I'd imagine it's around $500. |
stopbush |
Nov-13-09 02:39 PM |
#136 |
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You have a point? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 03:45 PM |
#142 |
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Maybe. You have an answer to my question? |
stopbush |
Nov-13-09 03:47 PM |
#145 |
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For the sake of discussion. $500.00 |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 03:48 PM |
#146 |
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For the sake of discussion, you're willing to scuttle providing insurance |
stopbush |
Nov-13-09 03:59 PM |
#148 |
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Yes, but the point is the rollback of hard fought rights. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 04:04 PM |
#150 |
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Why do you consider government subsidy of abortion a "right?" |
stopbush |
Nov-13-09 04:15 PM |
#154 |
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Only women who can afford an abortion should have that right? |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 04:19 PM |
#155 |
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Logic and reality escape you. |
stopbush |
Nov-13-09 06:59 PM |
#161 |
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For the sake of women |
unaffiliated liberal |
Nov-13-09 04:00 PM |
#149 |
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I'm with you! Don't holler at me! |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 04:06 PM |
#151 |
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What happens today with life-saving treatments that the uninsured receive? |
stopbush |
Nov-13-09 04:09 PM |
#152 |
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Back under your rock. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 04:21 PM |
#156 |
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I am so weary of the argument that hospitals have to provide life saving treatment |
laughingliberal |
Nov-13-09 07:34 PM |
#163 |
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The Pukes, abetted by Stupak, WANTED to cause this argument... |
freddie mertz |
Nov-13-09 04:22 PM |
#157 |
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Why is irrelevant at this point. |
MNDemNY |
Nov-13-09 04:26 PM |
#159 |
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Of course, I agree completely. Dem leadership got trumped... |
freddie mertz |
Nov-14-09 02:28 PM |
#168 |
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Kick |
Hekate |
Nov-13-09 10:56 PM |
#166 |
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K&R |
akbacchus_BC |
Nov-14-09 12:27 AM |
#167 |