Reply #23: The 2009 article states "...beyond the $80 billion deal" already struck.

[quiet.american]

Edited to change "2008 article" to "2009 article".

So, a deal worth $80 billion for consumers was already struck, resulting in cutting the price in half on drugs and then down to a quarter of the price of drugs, but that's a horrible thing?

Yes, I remember the transparency promise -- and Obama has said many times that they dropped the ball on that. He's not trying to dodge it.

And I never said the "secret deal" was awesome -- I said the bill is awesome. Edited to add: And I have to wonder if the WH negotiation was not more effective in the real world than pushing it through the House would have been. How far would that passage have lasted in the House version of the bill, or even had a chance of being passed as an amendment, given all the Conservadems prepared to vote against it?

And the bill is also organic. It's been said many times that Social Security when enacted looked nothing like what it does today. But does that mean FDR shouldn't even have tried if he couldn't leap the building in a single bound?

No. People are benefiting right now from this bill, and I find your "nopes" on it to be just inaccuruate.