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Reply #42: Nope. Because the SS trust fund BY LAW is EXCLUDED from all budgets: [View All]

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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Nope. Because the SS trust fund BY LAW is EXCLUDED from all budgets:
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 05:26 PM by stopbush
EXCLUSION OF SOCIAL SECURITY FROM ALL BUDGETS Pub. L. 101-508, title XIII, Sec. 13301(a), Nov. 5, 1990, 104Stat. 1388-623, provided that: Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund shall not be counted as new budget authority, outlays, receipts, or deficit or surplus for purposes of - (1) the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President, (2) the congressional budget, or (3) the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.

Here is the real problem in a nutshell:

the Republican call for tax cuts has had the effect of depleting the GENERAL FUND of the USA. This is the fund that pays for the military, etc. The tax cuts given to EVERYBODY over the years mean there is less $ in the general fund.

SS runs a SURPLUS. BY LAW, any surplus run by SS in a given year is invested in government securities. It's like SS is using their surplus to buy US Treasury bonds just like you or I can.

The money is taken out of SS and put in the general fund, and SS is in effect issued an IOU, ie: a government security, by the US Gov on behalf of the general fund.

Because SS is overfunded, politicians know that they can cut taxes and create shortfalls in the General Fund because the general fund will BY LAW be borrowing money from SS and issuing securities as collateral. Ergo, they can cut taxes and deprive the general fund knowing those cuts will be pasted over with SS funds.

THAT is the real problem - cutting the tax revenues flowing into the general fund.

There are a couple of solutions:

1. Place SS in a lock box. That would end the Government being able to borrow from the SSTF to fund the general fund. It would mean that they would need to raise taxes dramatically to fund the general fund, OR they would need to cut spending dramatically. It would mean much greater honesty in the tax system about how we fund our government.

2. Grow the economy to the point where enough revenue is coming into the general fund to meet obligations. At that point - as it was under Clinton - money being transferred from SS to the General Fund would create a surplus that could be used to pay down the debt.

3. A combination of the two, with maybe only a portion of SS funds placed in the lock box.
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  -Would You Be OK With The Obama Compromise Minus The Tax Cuts 4 The Rich? stopbush  Dec-12-10 02:35 PM   #0 
  - I support it with reservation now  Still a Democrat   Dec-12-10 02:37 PM   #1 
  - The payroll tax holiday is insidious and inexcusable, especially coming from a "Dem".  Edweird   Dec-12-10 02:39 PM   #2 
  - That's the killer for me. n/t  Peregrine Took   Dec-12-10 03:32 PM   #21 
  - Me too  Sherman A1   Dec-12-10 07:51 PM   #65 
  - Q: if there is no payroll tax holiday, what happens to the $ that is overpaid into the SS fund?  stopbush   Dec-12-10 03:44 PM   #26 
     - Q: What happened to all the cries of SS being 'broken' and 'insolvent'? Did the SS fairy  Edweird   Dec-12-10 04:21 PM   #35 
        - See my post #28 below. And stop answering a question with a question.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 04:39 PM   #39 
           - 1) I'll answer any question any way I damn well please. You don't tell me what to do.  Edweird   Dec-12-10 04:47 PM   #41 
              - I'm not saying SS is out of money. Quite the opposite.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 04:57 PM   #43 
                 - All you're 'contributing' are RW talking points. Talking points adopted by "Dems".  Edweird   Dec-12-10 05:02 PM   #44 
                    - You're substituting being offensive for a cogent response.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 05:08 PM   #45 
                       - Whatever works for you. See you in 2012.  Edweird   Dec-12-10 05:45 PM   #55 
                       - Nicely done sir!  Egnever   Dec-12-10 11:55 PM   #73 
  - No. They also have to take out the s.s. killer tax break.  lob1   Dec-12-10 02:39 PM   #3 
  - And what about the cut in the Social Security payroll tax?  Better Believe It   Dec-12-10 02:40 PM   #4 
  - I remember when Ds were up in arms when Reagan pushed through a rise in SS tax.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 04:02 PM   #28 
  - Absolutely not. The Payroll tax is more insidious than anything else in that bill.  Ruby the Liberal   Dec-12-10 02:40 PM   #5 
  - Agreed. nt  polichick   Dec-12-10 02:50 PM   #11 
  - No, because it raises taxes on the lower class  DJ13   Dec-12-10 02:40 PM   #6 
  - Sort of ...  Blue_In_AK   Dec-12-10 02:41 PM   #7 
  - almost. payroll reution HAS to go too. Estate tax is disgusting, but not as important.  robinlynne   Dec-12-10 02:41 PM   #8 
  - NO, because the plan RAISES taxes on workers.  L. Coyote   Dec-12-10 02:42 PM   #9 
  - You left out HELL NO! Contrary to DU opinion, I vote my interests, and  bobbolink   Dec-12-10 02:44 PM   #10 
  - Not even close. I see it as an unadulterated fuck load of fail in exchange for continuing  TheKentuckian   Dec-12-10 02:53 PM   #12 
  - That would be almost exactly the same plan Democrats have been pushing this whole time...  phleshdef   Dec-12-10 02:55 PM   #13 
  - Absolutely not - remove the poison pill for social security and we'll talk.nt  TBF   Dec-12-10 02:56 PM   #14 
  - When hell freezes over.  mmonk   Dec-12-10 02:58 PM   #15 
  - The payroll tax holiday is the biggest problem (threat to SS).  Laelth   Dec-12-10 03:14 PM   #16 
  - Estate tax is now ZERO. So, a tax on everything over 5 million is better than what we have now. n/t  Tx4obama   Dec-12-10 03:35 PM   #23 
     - And if there's no deal, estate tax automatically goes to 45% on estates over $1M.  reformist2   Dec-12-10 04:08 PM   #32 
     - Thanks for the info. n/t  Tx4obama   Dec-12-10 04:32 PM   #36 
     - Either you're uninformed ...  Laelth   Dec-12-10 04:10 PM   #33 
  - So if I get this right, the majority of poll voters and commentators here  stopbush   Dec-12-10 03:14 PM   #17 
  - The R's will cave on the unemployment extension.  Laelth   Dec-12-10 03:17 PM   #18 
  - You're kidding, right?  stopbush   Dec-12-10 03:23 PM   #20 
  - No. I am not.  Laelth   Dec-12-10 04:06 PM   #30 
     - That won't work in the Senate.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 04:36 PM   #37 
  - The best they might agree to w/o this compromise is 3 months.  totodeinhere   Dec-12-10 03:45 PM   #27 
     - I disagree. They would have passed it, alone, with no compromise.  Laelth   Dec-12-10 04:08 PM   #31 
  - It's called putting principle before people.  JamesA1102   Dec-12-10 03:38 PM   #24 
  - Well..  Chan790   Dec-12-10 05:24 PM   #48 
     - And why on earth would the GOP capitualte when they'll be able to tap into voter anger  stopbush   Dec-12-10 06:11 PM   #58 
        - Because...  Chan790   Dec-12-10 08:13 PM   #68 
           - Sorry, but that's just delusional.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 10:33 PM   #69 
              - Dude...  Chan790   Dec-12-10 11:50 PM   #71 
                 - Sorry that just doesnt work  Egnever   Dec-12-10 11:59 PM   #75 
                 - You're not one for nuance.The devil is in the details.  stopbush   Dec-13-10 11:41 AM   #79 
  - We need to fund social security.  Vinca   Dec-12-10 03:18 PM   #19 
  - Obama compromise requires general fund to write SS fund a $120B check. n/t  Tx4obama   Dec-12-10 03:32 PM   #22 
     - And when one realizes that the entirety of that $120-b check drawn from the general fund  stopbush   Dec-12-10 03:43 PM   #25 
     - Its worse than that. Involving the general fund opens it up to budget negotiations.  Ruby the Liberal   Dec-12-10 04:37 PM   #38 
        - Nope. Because the SS trust fund BY LAW is EXCLUDED from all budgets:  stopbush   Dec-12-10 04:55 PM   #42 
           - Obama's proposal changes the law.  Ruby the Liberal   Dec-12-10 07:39 PM   #62 
              - Oh really? I hadn't heard that. Care to show me where that little tidbit is found  stopbush   Dec-12-10 10:35 PM   #70 
                 - Sure. Where the $120b will be 'pulled' from the general account  Ruby the Liberal   Dec-12-10 11:52 PM   #72 
                    - So you're speculating and interpreting something that isn't in the bill at all.  stopbush   Dec-13-10 11:39 AM   #78 
     - I realize the money is coming from the general fund.  Vinca   Dec-13-10 07:03 AM   #77 
  - No, they would have to remove the *extra* cuts for the rich...  ljm2002   Dec-12-10 04:05 PM   #29 
  - That is a Reasonable Compromise  On the Road   Dec-12-10 04:12 PM   #34 
  - Sadly, removing the tax cuts for the rich from the compromise makes it unacceptable  stopbush   Dec-12-10 05:22 PM   #47 
     - I Agree  On the Road   Dec-12-10 05:26 PM   #49 
     - Well, I think it IS the best deal he could have gotten at this time.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 05:28 PM   #51 
     - It actually does sound like a win-win to me.  Chan790   Dec-12-10 05:35 PM   #53 
  - What about the 99ers? They are excluded from this "pragmatic compromise." Are they to starve?  Citizen Worker   Dec-12-10 04:46 PM   #40 
  - My poll limited it's parameters specifically to avoid these kinds of debates.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 05:13 PM   #46 
  - Hell no!!!! No back door's into SS!!!!! n/t  Little Star   Dec-12-10 05:27 PM   #50 
  - How is it a back door into SS? To wit:  stopbush   Dec-12-10 05:30 PM   #52 
     - Here is a nice primer by Faryn Balyncd....  Little Star   Dec-12-10 05:41 PM   #54 
        - Yeah, I've read all those, and the arguments are flawed.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 06:05 PM   #56 
           - You can type all day long & it won't change that they are going to try & cut our benefits...  laughingliberal   Dec-12-10 07:50 PM   #64 
              - I doubt very much that you even know what the current SS deduction is.  stopbush   Dec-13-10 02:05 PM   #80 
  - No, the SS tax "holiday" is a trap that leads to the end of SS.  Odin2005   Dec-12-10 06:07 PM   #57 
  - How so? Please explain.  stopbush   Dec-12-10 06:14 PM   #59 
     - Do you think they are going to let the "holiday" expire?  Odin2005   Dec-12-10 08:07 PM   #66 
  - delete - wrong thread. sorry. -nt  democrat2thecore   Dec-12-10 06:17 PM   #60 
  - ALSO get rid of Estate tax sell-out, Social Security defunding "tax holiday"  panzerfaust   Dec-12-10 07:11 PM   #61 
  - No. I want the payroll tax holiday killed and the Making Work Pay credit restored.  laughingliberal   Dec-12-10 07:44 PM   #63 
  - And how is the estate tax deduction not about the rich?  lonestarnot   Dec-12-10 08:11 PM   #67 
  - If the assautl on Social Security remains, FUCK NO!! n/t  eridani   Dec-12-10 11:57 PM   #74 
  - This deal is going to bankrupt the country  Confusious   Dec-13-10 12:12 AM   #76 

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