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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-16-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Uhm no
False analogy.

Social Security and Medicare were strictly public plans. They did not use or create a private structure that would continually try to maximize profits and would allow for lobbying to drain the money out of it. I am getting very tired of this foolish talking point.

You want to compare it to something compare it to the military industrial complex or the for-profit prison industry.

With social security and medicare all that was required to improve it was allocation of more funding and broadening the rules.

With an army of well paid insurance lobbyists that is never going to happen with this bill.
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  -Saunders versus Kucinich who is right grantcart  Mar-15-10 03:39 PM   #0 
  - Split the baby in half! Everybody wins (and Everybody loses)  hlthe2b   Mar-15-10 03:43 PM   #1 
  - well said  grantcart   Mar-15-10 03:44 PM   #2 
  - well said  mdmc   Mar-15-10 03:46 PM   #4 
     - lol you must be my twin lol  grantcart   Mar-15-10 03:50 PM   #8 
        - yesyes  mdmc   Mar-15-10 04:01 PM   #16 
  - How does one "force" a better bill? nt  Deep13   Mar-15-10 03:45 PM   #3 
  - The same way one improves the bill tomorrow. nt  ZombieHorde   Mar-15-10 03:46 PM   #5 
  - Which is what? nt  Deep13   Mar-15-10 04:30 PM   #20 
     - I was being pessimistic. I don't think either is going to happen. nt  ZombieHorde   Mar-15-10 11:14 PM   #49 
  - Not to speak for Rep Kucinich but the health care system is under  grantcart   Mar-15-10 03:49 PM   #6 
  - OK. Without the public option this bill will be almost useless.  Cal33   Mar-15-10 04:03 PM   #17 
  - The bill will save lives and save money  grantcart   Mar-15-10 04:07 PM   #18 
  - Uh huh. How does one "force" a better bill? nt  Deep13   Mar-15-10 04:32 PM   #22 
  - How do you improve a bill later if you can't do it when it's got the national spotlight?  Marr   Mar-15-10 03:50 PM   #9 
  - the same way all big legislation has evolved  grantcart   Mar-15-10 03:57 PM   #13 
  - Yes, but those were steps in the right direction, later taken a bit further.  Marr   Mar-15-10 04:45 PM   #26 
  - Virtually all progressives disagree with you  grantcart   Mar-15-10 06:08 PM   #39 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-10 06:19 PM   #42 
        - Well I sure need a raise  grantcart   Mar-15-10 07:18 PM   #43 
        - I'd happily pay to read a post by grantcart.  saltpoint   Mar-16-10 01:07 AM   #52 
        - Of course you realize it's a rules violation to imply someone is paid.  Maru Kitteh   Mar-16-10 01:14 AM   #54 
           - it didn't bother me and I didn't alert on it.  grantcart   Mar-16-10 02:27 AM   #58 
  - False analogy  kenfrequed   Mar-15-10 04:46 PM   #27 
     - Your condescention noted but actually I got the analogy of the Civil Rights bill  grantcart   Mar-15-10 05:49 PM   #34 
        - Feh  kenfrequed   Mar-15-10 09:33 PM   #46 
           - The bill will save lives and save money  grantcart   Mar-16-10 02:37 AM   #60 
              - Nonsense  kenfrequed   Mar-16-10 10:17 AM   #74 
                 - Your simply ignorant of the facts, unless you consider 26 million miniscule  grantcart   Mar-16-10 04:17 PM   #81 
                    - Question time Mr. Bold print  kenfrequed   Mar-17-10 09:00 AM   #89 
  - Don't change the subject.  Deep13   Mar-15-10 04:32 PM   #21 
  - I actually meant to respond to the other person.  Marr   Mar-15-10 04:42 PM   #25 
  - Existing legislation gets amended and refined all the time  anigbrowl   Mar-16-10 02:59 AM   #61 
  - How did the Blue Dogs 'force' a worse bill? nt  laughingliberal   Mar-16-10 01:24 AM   #57 
     - Collaborating with the enemy. Still no answer to my question. nt  Deep13   Mar-16-10 07:39 AM   #63 
        - It's interesting to me that every time a Blue Dog made a demand to make this bill worse  laughingliberal   Mar-16-10 11:15 AM   #77 
           - No argument here. nt  Deep13   Mar-16-10 12:07 PM   #79 
  - 'SO WHAT if the house is on fire? You can repaint it once you're inside!'  Marr   Mar-15-10 03:49 PM   #7 
  - And you can only repaint it with DLC-approved paint.  Sebastian Doyle   Mar-15-10 03:54 PM   #11 
  - I'm going with Sanders, only because I have no faith that we would  gateley   Mar-15-10 03:52 PM   #10 
  - ME TOO !!  JanusAscending   Mar-15-10 04:00 PM   #15 
  - +1  Hansel   Mar-15-10 06:11 PM   #41 
  - "Defeat the bill and force a better bill."  ProSense   Mar-15-10 03:56 PM   #12 
  - Well in order to get a fair reading of what DU feels its probably a good  grantcart   Mar-15-10 03:59 PM   #14 
  - I choose to trust Saunders...  Ozymanithrax   Mar-15-10 04:16 PM   #19 
  - One problem I see.  Andy823   Mar-15-10 04:35 PM   #23 
  - This kind of confrontation isn't at all helpful.  bobbolink   Mar-15-10 04:35 PM   #24 
  - I couldn't disagree more  grantcart   Mar-15-10 05:53 PM   #35 
     - I wouldn't expect you to actually see the sadness of this.  bobbolink   Mar-15-10 05:54 PM   #36 
        - The premise of the question is that no more negotiation is possible  grantcart   Mar-15-10 06:05 PM   #38 
        - Since in your toughness you don't have room to CARE (not pity) people in *my* position,  bobbolink   Mar-15-10 06:10 PM   #40 
           - Actually I have no problem going down that road if you want to, I actually  grantcart   Mar-15-10 07:31 PM   #45 
        - Divide and conquer  kenfrequed   Mar-16-10 10:18 AM   #75 
  - The socialist, not the grandstander. n/t  Unvanguard   Mar-15-10 04:47 PM   #28 
  - +1  Deep13   Mar-15-10 05:01 PM   #29 
  - Right on, could not have said it better myself. n/t  O is 44   Mar-15-10 06:02 PM   #37 
  - I'm with Kucinich ...  gleaner   Mar-15-10 05:11 PM   #30 
  - I kicked in with Bernie.  Jackpine Radical   Mar-15-10 05:21 PM   #31 
  - I'm going to side with Bernie just about every time...  Dappleganger   Mar-15-10 05:21 PM   #32 
  - for the record I had a roommate in college whose name was Saunders  grantcart   Mar-15-10 05:32 PM   #33 
  - I'll listen to Bernie before Dennis every time.  MineralMan   Mar-15-10 07:29 PM   #44 
  - Bernie's approach is better. And he is a fellow New Englander.  Jennicut   Mar-15-10 09:37 PM   #47 
  - Bernie Sanders.  Doremus   Mar-15-10 11:10 PM   #48 
  - A "socialist" for mandated CORPORATE health care?? lol  557188   Mar-15-10 11:36 PM   #50 
  - I'm with BERNIE!  Maru Kitteh   Mar-16-10 12:56 AM   #51 
  - Prog fight!!!!!!!  Forkboy   Mar-16-10 01:11 AM   #53 
  - lol no the fight has been going on I just wanted a sense of where  grantcart   Mar-16-10 02:32 AM   #59 
  - Saunders is the real thing. DK has run for president twice  ecstatic   Mar-16-10 01:21 AM   #55 
  - I am so with you  anigbrowl   Mar-16-10 03:06 AM   #62 
  - We aren't always able to hear Sanders on Thom Hartmann's program  saltpoint   Mar-16-10 01:22 AM   #56 
  - Dinner's on the table, but Dennis won't sit down to eat, because there's no dessert.  Major Hogwash   Mar-16-10 07:49 AM   #64 
  - There's no dinner either, just a big fat check for the unserved food. nt  Lorien   Mar-16-10 08:23 AM   #71 
  - It is not an issue of right and wrong between them, rather it is a right or wrong  mmonk   Mar-16-10 07:51 AM   #65 
  - why should we believe they'd start FIXING it tomorrow?  NightWatcher   Mar-16-10 07:58 AM   #66 
  - My take as well. If I thought this would lead to further change, I would  mmonk   Mar-16-10 08:07 AM   #68 
  - This is a tough question and a great poll question, btw - I lean with saunders  deacon   Mar-16-10 08:05 AM   #67 
  - Who is "Senator Saunders"?  freddie mertz   Mar-16-10 08:15 AM   #69 
  - lol mea culpa in reply 33  grantcart   Mar-16-10 04:18 PM   #82 
  - If history is any indicator the bill will NEVER see a single improvement if passed  Lorien   Mar-16-10 08:22 AM   #70 
  - Because that's what happened with FDR and LBJ. SS and Medicare were passed and never changed.  suzie   Mar-16-10 08:45 AM   #72 
     - FDR didn't put the corporations in charge.  mmonk   Mar-16-10 08:51 AM   #73 
     - Uhm no  kenfrequed   Mar-16-10 10:22 AM   #76 
     - SS and Medicare were small fractions of what they are today when they  grantcart   Mar-16-10 04:20 PM   #83 
  - Sanders. No doubt about it.  mzmolly   Mar-16-10 11:17 AM   #78 
  - Bernie of course  Mudoria   Mar-16-10 01:22 PM   #80 
  - I Am.  Toasterlad   Mar-16-10 04:22 PM   #84 
  - I voted with Saunders although the word is circulating that  quiller4   Mar-16-10 04:24 PM   #85 
  - In which case Kucinich will be supporting the Sanders position  grantcart   Mar-16-10 06:00 PM   #87 
     - They must have served damned good snacks on Air Force One.  Major Hogwash   Mar-16-10 08:19 PM   #88 
     - We will think...  kenfrequed   Mar-17-10 09:13 AM   #91 
  - Bernie by a country mile.  Ikonoklast   Mar-16-10 04:34 PM   #86 
  - As Berni, I stand with Bernie.  berni_mccoy   Mar-17-10 09:02 AM   #90 

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