Reply #144: If you want people to listen to you, a good place to start is with coherent arguments that actually

[Warren DeMontague]

make sense.

I bring up Walmart because many on DU get all self-righteous about shopping at Walmart and yet have no problem buying vehicles from a company who sends their profits to another country. Many argue that because Toyota employs people here that it is ok to purchase from them but one could make the same argument about Walmart

What argument? Which one? My problem with Walmart is that their cheap stuff sucks. And I don't like their labor practices. Could you make the argument that it's ok to purchase from Walmart because they employ people here? Sure, you could. Personally, I've never claimed it's not "OK" to shop at Wal-Mart. I don't do it, but I've got more important shit to worry about than telling other people where to shop. Maybe if you find one of these DU people who are "self-righteous" about Walmart, you can try to draw whatever connection you think you're making. Personally, I don't give a shit where other people shop, I don't shop there because I think most of the stuff they sell is crap, and I can save plenty of Money buying quality goods from Costco, who also treat their employees right, are progressive, and most importantly their stuff doesn't suck.

So there is no connection- NONE- between Wal-Mart and Toyota. It's just not a coherent argument, you've got there.

Anyway, the bottom line in all those cases is QUALITY, as in, I'm not going to put a bunch of money down on something that, in my experience, has a high probability of being poorly made or sucking. Like an American Car.

Oh, did I mention the brand new Ford we rented that died in the middle of nowhere? Well, beyond that, pretty much every time I travel & rent a car, the rental company sticks me with an American car (you have to specially request something like a Toyota; again, that higher demand must indicate the far-reaching conspiracy) and so, yes, I've driven what Detroit has put out at least as recently as 2008-- and in my experience, again, the handling always sucks, the cheapo, uncomfortable interior looks like it's designed for fat people who smoke, the engineering always strikes me as handled in a putzy fashion... overall the technology of the cars feels about 5-10 years behind anything coming out of Japan.

I'm not trying to "prove my argument".. in fact, I think I prefaced my statements with "in my experience"-- for some reason, in all these threads, someone inevitably gets all flappy armed and goes "personal experience doesn't prove anything!!!!" Well, it does to me, Jack. And when you're talking about a consumer product that individuals use, like a car, (and you're unwilling to accept group data sources like Consumer Reports, to boot) "personal, anecdotal experience" is all there IS.

Sorry.