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Reply #38: Well, I guess that depends. [View All]

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 10:08 AM
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38. Well, I guess that depends.
Are we talking about normal Republicans here, or these batshit crazy neoconservative Republicans? The fact of the matter is that the US has been poking Russia with a stick quite a lot since the end of the Cold War, and especially since Bush came to power - abrogating the nonproliferation treaty, negotiating with Poland for placement of their idiot "missile defense" shield, pushing hard for NATO membership for former Warsaw Pact countries within Russia's existing sphere of influence, even over Europe's objections.

I would agree that they see increased Russian influence as a bad thing. And you are half correct in asserting that they "don't want to see a return to the Cold War." What they actually want to see is a Russia with zero influence outside of its borders. However, those of us living in the real world understand that this isn't going to happen, and the actions that they have taken have had the *effect* of moving us closer to something resembling the Cold War, even if that wasn't the intention.

I do however agree that they probably did not want this war. I don't think even the neocons are dumb enough to believe that Georgia could defeat Russia in any serious military conflict. I'm sure they're also none too happy about seeing their multibillion dollar military and political investment being methodically dismantled in the most humiliating way possible.

We know at least some of what the neocons wanted: They wanted Georgia and Ukraine to be part of NATO. The (entirely predictable) upshot of this conflict is that Europe will never, ever agree to let Georgia or Ukraine into NATO. So from that perspective it's a huge net loss for them.

The only explanations I've seen for why the Republicans would have wanted this war are:

1) They're a bunch of warmongering assholes.

2) To help John McCain.

And in my mind #1 is much more plausible than #2, but still not very plausible due to it being so blatantly obvious that Georgia was going to get its ass kicked.
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  -A wake up call: the Republicans *did not want* this Russian invasion of Georgia. Donald Ian Rankin  Aug-16-08 05:27 PM   #0 
  - But it is Bush's fault  The Traveler   Aug-16-08 05:32 PM   #1 
  - You're reaching.  Donald Ian Rankin   Aug-16-08 05:52 PM   #3 
  - hardly. he's quite right. who upset the balance of power?  Hannah Bell   Aug-16-08 08:00 PM   #16 
  - Not really  The Traveler   Aug-16-08 10:16 PM   #20 
  - Just why did Georgia bomb and raize a civilian city with no military targets?  Bandit   Aug-17-08 10:13 AM   #32 
  - There are two possible answers to that; I don't know which it is yet.  Donald Ian Rankin   Aug-17-08 10:57 AM   #34 
  - ok, then explain what Karl Rove was doing in Georgia earlier this summer.  yardwork   Aug-18-08 04:04 PM   #44 
  - The outcry over the state of the Russian military began before Bush II.  igil   Aug-16-08 06:03 PM   #4 
     - britain gave the us bad treatment in the 18th-19th centuries. nothing  Hannah Bell   Aug-16-08 08:03 PM   #17 
     - No clubbing required!  The Traveler   Aug-16-08 10:11 PM   #19 
     - so Israel should invade Poland for its anti-semitism?  RainDog   Aug-18-08 09:58 AM   #36 
  - There are The Republicans...  AntiFascist   Aug-16-08 05:32 PM   #2 
  - BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!  Karenina   Aug-16-08 06:07 PM   #5 
  - Yeah...Cold Wars are TERRIBLE for Military Industrial Complexes....  Junkdrawer   Aug-16-08 06:09 PM   #6 
  - The first rule of DU:  Occam Bandage   Aug-16-08 06:12 PM   #7 
  - I think it is still not clear about who attacked who  MiniMe   Aug-16-08 06:55 PM   #8 
  - Of course they want to return to the cold war.  MrSlayer   Aug-16-08 07:02 PM   #9 
  - I think you're making the mistake of thinking the Republicans are cartoon villains.  Donald Ian Rankin   Aug-16-08 07:32 PM   #10 
     - ??????  lynyrd_skynyrd   Aug-16-08 07:37 PM   #11 
     - Yes they act by buying the ones in politics and then pull their strings accordingly.  Uncle Joe   Aug-16-08 07:40 PM   #12 
     - I think you are making the mistake of thinking they are not. nt  bemildred   Aug-16-08 08:27 PM   #18 
     - Well that depends on the flavour of self-interest.  baby_mouse   Aug-17-08 06:07 AM   #26 
     - They're not cartoon villains...but the majority SPEAK and VOTE that way...  Junkdrawer   Aug-17-08 06:55 AM   #28 
     - they're real people who genuinely want to make the world  seemslikeadream   Aug-18-08 09:48 AM   #35 
     - wow, that's one of the most ignorant, gullible remarks I've ever read here  RainDog   Aug-18-08 10:07 AM   #37 
  - OK  seemslikeadream   Aug-16-08 07:52 PM   #13 
  - I find it hard to believe georgia would have moved against russian  Hannah Bell   Aug-16-08 07:56 PM   #14 
  - Why Did 1,000 Marines Participate In A Georgia Military Excercise In July?  Better Believe It   Aug-16-08 07:59 PM   #15 
  - Possibly because Russian invasion of Georgia didn't look unlikely?  Donald Ian Rankin   Aug-17-08 05:22 AM   #24 
  - " . .. and they don't want to see a return to the Cold War" --- ????  defendandprotect   Aug-16-08 11:45 PM   #21 
  - to renew the cold war, for their own selfish greedy needs  alyce douglas   Aug-18-08 10:32 AM   #40 
  - Until proven otherwise, I think McCain started this with one of his daily calls to Georgia.  MarjorieG   Aug-16-08 11:47 PM   #22 
  - Yes, the Bushites hate war  daleo   Aug-17-08 12:20 AM   #23 
  - You are an authority on what republiks want?  greyhound1966   Aug-17-08 05:25 AM   #25 
  - By DU standards, it seems so - in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.  Donald Ian Rankin   Aug-17-08 06:42 AM   #27 
  - You're only kidding yourself.  Xap   Aug-17-08 07:41 AM   #29 
  - Sadly, I can't say the same to you.  Donald Ian Rankin   Aug-17-08 09:01 AM   #31 
  - Sorry but neoconservative adventurism and hubris has led to this.  mmonk   Aug-17-08 08:41 AM   #30 
  - ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##  DU GrovelBot   Aug-17-08 10:13 AM   #33 
  - Well, I guess that depends.  yibbehobba   Aug-18-08 10:08 AM   #38 
  - The neo-cons were also wrong about Russia in the 1970s and 1980s  RainDog   Aug-18-08 10:23 AM   #39 
     - Great documentary.  yibbehobba   Aug-18-08 10:47 AM   #41 
        - It's the outcome of their view of the world  RainDog   Aug-18-08 11:21 AM   #42 
  - Oh my darling, can you ever forgive me for my sin of thinking badly of Republicans?  Overseas   Aug-18-08 03:26 PM   #43 

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