Reply #104: What are these lies?

[Odious justice]

Looking at your OP, your whole contention about these lies being spread results from a conservative going on a liberal show and making specific complaints about health care systems. You call him a liar because you have specific complaints about another health care system he recommends.

You're doing the same thing he is. Your extrapolating your bad experience with Kaiser to conclude that it is a poor organization that does more harm then good. He, the CATO dude, is using examples of care in other countries to conclude that national health care will do more harm then good.

Your criticizing him for doing exactly what you're doing. You make it worse by furthering your argument that there should be laws preventing him from speaking(because he lies IYO) and back that up by saying there is no forum to point out these lies...when he made these "lies" on the Thom Hartman show!

Come on.



Here's a snapshot of Kaiser Permanente:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente#Quality_of_care
Quality of care
U.S. News and World Report, in its 2006 annual ranking of US commercial health plans, ranked Kaiser Foundation Health Plans as follows, out of 246 rated plans:<45>

45. Northern California
57. Colorado
65. Georgia
67. Ohio
90. Southern California
94. Hawaii
106. Mid-Atlantic States
121. Northwest
A 2004 Consumer Reports survey of planholders ranked Kaiser Permanente overall as average or better. It showed below average ratings in the Colorado and Mid-Atlantic regions for two measures of quality of care: 'care from doctors', and the 'quality of their primary care physician'. The same survey ranked Kaiser Permanente's Northern California region as the best HMO overall among rated plans.<46>

In the 2007 California Healthcare Quality Report Card, Kaiser Permanente's Northern California and Southern California regions led the rankings, with each scoring six out of eight possible stars.<47> Kaiser's rankings in the 2007 report were lower; Kaiser scored 3 out of 4 possible stars, tied for first place with 3 other firms.<48>

KP's performance has been attributed to three practices: First, KP places a strong emphasis on preventative care, reducing costs later on. Second, its doctors are salaried rather than paid per service, which removes any incentive for doctors to perform unnecessary procedures. Thirdly, KP attempts to minimize the time patients spend in high-cost hospitals by carefully planning their stay and by providing cares in clinics. This practice results in cost savings for KP and greater doctor attention to patients. A comparison to the UK's National Health Service found that patients spend 2-5 times as much time in NHS hospitals as compared to KP hospitals.<49>