Reply #53: Long post

[Jcrowley]

and there is alot there that folks would do well to read and re-read.

But let's be clear about this that all of the "solutions" that are out there are in fact not solutions at all. That's not necessarily bad. But that requires us to rethink pretty much all aspects of our living arrangements, which is also a good thing.

The absolute best energy ratio I've seen on any crop to fuel ratio is 4 to 1. If you have any other info send it along. That pales in comparison to even the lowest and worst form of oil EROEI.

What I'm saying is that proposing solutions within the same framework that created the disease is very deceptive intentionally or not.

Many of the underlying assumptions within your post are based on the same disasterous modality of living which will not be around for generations one way or another.

All of the discussions must start with the fact that the US, in particular, must learn to live with much less in order for us to even survive. If this is not the starting point then all of the calculations and all of the "solutions" are merely exercises in futility.

3 Quotes from Albert Einstein:

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal."

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."