Reply #148: I can only assume you have some serious reading comprehension problems.

[Warren DeMontague]

A simple film of a male and female having intercourse is not what pornography usually is ---
especially hard core porn ---

Pornography usually involves violence and themes of domination ---

According to whom? Got any evidence to back up your assertion? Have you ever even seen any porn? Or have you just read about it and heard about it in breathless, angry, Womens Studies Department echo chamber sessions?

"Pornography usually involves violence". Please prove that statement.

I'll take your word for your sex life ---

Don't tell me you're actually operating under the delusion that I care enough about your opinion to bother lying to you. Believe me, don't believe me, I don't give a shit.

And note that you once had ties to the porn industry . . . ???

Ha, ha. Again with the lame attempts at insults! Oh, well, I suppose when one has zero grasp of the subject one is opining on, and absolutely no understanding of concepts like "freedom of speech" and "consenting adults" to boot, hurling what must seem like satisfying little brickbats is about the best one can hope for. But let's clear this up, shall we?
I once worked for a chain of video stores. Believe it or not, outside of your Ivory Tower, there are places called "video stores"- those are stores where people go to buy or rent videos, which people can put into machines and watch on their TVs- and it's fairly common for these "video stores" to have an adult section, like they have a comedy section or an oscar winners section or a David Lynch section. This does not make them "porn stores" any more than a grocery store which sells grapefruit is a "Grapefruit Store".

I had "ties to the industry" like someone working in a bookstore that sold Penthouse has "ties to the industry". Nice try. That's like saying someone who works for one of the many major chains of hotels which offer pay per view adult films in the rooms is a "Porno Theater usher".

Not that there's anything wrong with working in a sex store OR a porn theater, but I think it's worth pointing out that your point, in addition to being completely fucking meaningless, is also factually incorrect.

You "saw" men, women, couples . . . . ??? What? You tracked your customers' lives . . . ?
Perhaps they invited you for dinner once a year so that you could vouch for their relationships -??

Have you ever had a job?

Have you ever had a job in a retail establishment?

Have you ever had a job working for a long time in a community? Around people in a community?

Have you ever gotten off your campus long enough to spend any time in local businesses? I mean, aside from protesting them?

If you had, maybe you would notice that if you patronize a business regularly, or you work around and with people for a long period of time, eventually you develop relationships with them, that is, if you can deal with humans as actual people and not some ridiculous caricatures you read about in an Andrea Dworkin book.

I didn't track anybody's life, but I certainly was a part of the communities that our stores were in and I developed friendly relationships with a lot of people who frequented our stores. And believe it or not, there are some places in this country where the subject of consenting adults having sex on film doesn't cause folks to start clomping around angrily in big, heavy, boots, grousing about slavery and pumping their fists in the air. So believe me, I got to know people through my old job.

And I can tell you that consumers of adult erotica ran the gamut. Men, women, couples, yuppies, firefighters, television personalities, computer programmers. Well-adjusted members of the community who liked adult material along with other kinds of entertainment. Whatever, I don't expect or need you to believe me there, either. Again, I don't really give a shit. But those are the facts.

But. . . maybe vouching for the "zombie" crowd and this ANN COULTER-type comment was a little
over board -- ????

What?

Again, here, you're in denial ---
Where is there any proof that women exploited in these films are performing of their own free
will --?

Okay. Here's what you should do. Buy yourself an Abraham Lincoln mask and drive down to Van Nuys or Santa Monica or somewhere where porn stars live. Go bang on a few doors. Bust into their houses and announce that you are there to "emancipate" them from their paychecks and their careers. I'm sure they will be greatly appreciative of the implication that they don't know what they're doing, that they're incapable of consenting to the job they go to every day, that they're brain-addled ninnies who just need rescuing. Go ahead and do that.

Beyond that, where is ANY proof that there is widespread non-consent in porn? Particularly given that performers in ANY sort of entertainment -tv, movies, etc.- generally sign a release before their images can be used?

Go ahead. Find the fucking proof of a widespread phenomenon of women in porn- and there are a lot of them- NOT performing of their own free will. You can add that to your "proof" that, and I quote, "most porn involves violence".

Nor do personal assaults on females fighting against exploition in pornography help your argument any ---

However, you still haven't strayed into trying to explain WHY themes of violence against females --
and themes of domination of females are so IMPORTANT to men seeking inspiration for masturbation ---????

You don't even HAVE an "argument", so my own counsel I will keep on what helps mine, thankyouverymuch.

You haven't tried to explain any of my points, either, and mine actually make sense- for instance, how about explaining whether a simple act of graphically depicted sex on film or a picture of a naked woman is intrinsically oppressive to women, particularly given that Dworkinite anti-porn crowd considers it an axiomatic, fundamental truth that heterosexual sex itself oppresses women?

How about you back up -you know, with evidence- the statements that "most porn contains violence" and that "themes of violence and domination are important to men seeking inspiration for masturbation" and some of the other self-validating tautological nonsense you've tried to float?