itsmesgd
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Mon Dec-18-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message |
| 8. taxes go for police and fire departments too... |
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you don't get a refund if you dont have to call the fire department in one year. It's the responsibility of living in an organized society.
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| -Since when do liberals think that rescue search and rescue costs of need to be collected? |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 02:54 PM |
#0 |
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The extrme left libertarian |
nadinbrzezinski |
Dec-18-06 02:57 PM |
#1 |
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huh? |
endarkenment |
Dec-18-06 03:21 PM |
#40 |
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which is, of course |
northzax |
Dec-18-06 07:11 PM |
#97 |
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Indeed. This certainly has nothing to do with libertarianism. |
endarkenment |
Dec-19-06 06:42 AM |
#106 |
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Well I think it's folly to pretend that liberals think a certain way |
bryant69 |
Dec-18-06 02:57 PM |
#2 |
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I'm with you... I can see both sides of this issue |
nini |
Dec-18-06 03:09 PM |
#22 |
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The searchers are volunteers, I think. |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 03:33 PM |
#54 |
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Yes |
BoneDaddy |
Dec-19-06 06:45 AM |
#107 |
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I think you miss the issue of personal responsibility. |
cryingshame |
Dec-19-06 09:37 AM |
#149 |
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What are you |
BoneDaddy |
Dec-19-06 09:42 AM |
#150 |
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what the hell are you talking about? |
NVMojo |
Dec-18-06 02:57 PM |
#3 |
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This is actually one of the safest times to climb |
LostinVA |
Dec-19-06 06:47 AM |
#108 |
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yes, you can't |
northzax |
Dec-19-06 08:25 AM |
#121 |
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Just don't hike in the dead of winter. |
Connie_Corleone |
Dec-18-06 02:58 PM |
#4 |
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I don't think that was their problem. One of the guys got hurt and things |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:01 PM |
#7 |
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Silly me. I thought it was possible to get stranded..... |
Kingshakabobo |
Dec-18-06 03:05 PM |
#14 |
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Nope apparently you can only get lost in the woods during the winter. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:10 PM |
#26 |
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It was just a joke. Geez. |
Connie_Corleone |
Dec-18-06 03:21 PM |
#37 |
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Sorry, I didn't get the joke. Some of the things people are saying make |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:25 PM |
#45 |
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GPS are not magical devices |
seemunkee |
Dec-18-06 03:09 PM |
#23 |
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It was a FUCKIN' JOKE! |
Connie_Corleone |
Dec-18-06 03:20 PM |
#36 |
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They aren't "hikers", BTW. They are serious climbers, |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 03:35 PM |
#57 |
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OP used the word hikers. Just responding to the OP. |
Connie_Corleone |
Dec-18-06 03:37 PM |
#59 |
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I don't know why people have become so callous and uncaring |
neverforget |
Dec-18-06 02:59 PM |
#5 |
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Thanks for the voice of reason... |
phusion |
Dec-18-06 03:04 PM |
#12 |
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This is one more way the trolls come out of the woodwork. |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 03:38 PM |
#60 |
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AMEN!!! |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:06 PM |
#17 |
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Thank you -- excellent post |
LostinVA |
Dec-19-06 06:48 AM |
#109 |
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Not me |
BOSSHOG |
Dec-18-06 02:59 PM |
#6 |
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Sierra Madre S&R (the big one here in So Cal) is all |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 03:40 PM |
#63 |
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God Bless Em! |
BOSSHOG |
Dec-18-06 03:45 PM |
#69 |
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Volunteer organizations need money too. |
Lasher |
Dec-19-06 08:52 AM |
#134 |
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taxes go for police and fire departments too... |
itsmesgd |
Dec-18-06 03:01 PM |
#8 |
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Still, those are normal risks of life |
treestar |
Dec-18-06 03:16 PM |
#33 |
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So should somebody who exceeds safe driving speeds in |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 03:43 PM |
#67 |
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I'm not sure, but I'm also not sure that this was a case of respecting nature either |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Dec-18-06 03:02 PM |
#9 |
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Who held the gun to the hiker's heads? |
BobRossi |
Dec-18-06 03:03 PM |
#10 |
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So you don't expect anyone to help you if you fall and break your leg |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:05 PM |
#15 |
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That is correct! |
BobRossi |
Dec-18-06 03:07 PM |
#18 |
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Most mountaineers and even hikers would scoff at the suggestion |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 03:45 PM |
#70 |
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Even guides can get lost/hurt and require SAR |
Squatch |
Dec-19-06 08:37 AM |
#129 |
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Part of the no-bid contract would no doubt include a clause |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-19-06 11:55 AM |
#158 |
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Excellent point. |
cwydro |
Dec-18-06 03:09 PM |
#21 |
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You're not that inacessible there |
treestar |
Dec-18-06 03:20 PM |
#35 |
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Yes you are. You could fall onto a ledge that reqires a helicopter for a lift out. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:21 PM |
#39 |
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That's easy ... |
JustABozoOnThisBus |
Dec-18-06 03:40 PM |
#64 |
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So you burn down your house...they have to rescue you and air lift to hospital.. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:50 PM |
#73 |
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Most people can live without extreme mountain climbing. Most people cannot |
valerief |
Dec-18-06 04:20 PM |
#84 |
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But the argument is it's their fault. |
Pithlet |
Dec-18-06 06:37 PM |
#94 |
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Yes, charge them. nt |
valerief |
Dec-19-06 08:27 AM |
#122 |
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What house? |
JustABozoOnThisBus |
Dec-18-06 05:09 PM |
#90 |
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No one.. who put a gun to the head of someone hit by a drunk driver? |
nini |
Dec-18-06 03:12 PM |
#27 |
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Should you expect help? Yes, you should. |
Pithlet |
Dec-18-06 03:16 PM |
#32 |
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Who stole your humanity? |
Beelzebud |
Dec-19-06 09:27 AM |
#146 |
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Since the 'toughest mountain man' competition went online |
Little Wing |
Dec-18-06 03:03 PM |
#11 |
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Middle class white guys |
cwydro |
Dec-18-06 03:04 PM |
#13 |
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I wonder where plain ol' humanity is anymore |
nini |
Dec-18-06 03:13 PM |
#30 |
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Funny in another thread some DUers advocating shooting dogs that |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:54 PM |
#75 |
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No one has claimed not to care |
TakesAVillage_People |
Dec-18-06 03:05 PM |
#16 |
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There are some people who can't separate the two |
treestar |
Dec-18-06 03:21 PM |
#38 |
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I hear you |
TakesAVillage_People |
Dec-18-06 03:25 PM |
#44 |
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Have you read some of the posts? People are calling them stupid |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:28 PM |
#47 |
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They do pay for the SAR in advance--with taxes... |
piedmont |
Dec-18-06 03:39 PM |
#61 |
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That is what I thought. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:45 PM |
#71 |
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Outdoor recreation is a big moneymaker in the US. If you |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 03:48 PM |
#72 |
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So true!!! |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:50 PM |
#74 |
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Some sort of weird disconnect |
sandnsea |
Dec-19-06 11:31 AM |
#155 |
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Perspective...... |
jus_the_facts |
Dec-18-06 03:08 PM |
#19 |
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EXACTLY!!! |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:39 PM |
#62 |
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"liberals"? Where? |
TahitiNut |
Dec-18-06 03:08 PM |
#20 |
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I would rather finance 100 of these rescues..... |
bobbiejo |
Dec-18-06 03:09 PM |
#24 |
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BRILLIANT! |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:33 PM |
#53 |
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okay. you're crazy. |
sui generis |
Dec-18-06 03:10 PM |
#25 |
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What about the fire department rescuing you from your burning kitchen? |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:19 PM |
#34 |
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Some would argue taking on Mt. Hood in December is not a walk in the park. |
lectrobyte |
Dec-18-06 03:22 PM |
#41 |
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Depends on the park. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:23 PM |
#43 |
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Taking on Mt. Hood in Dec is safer than doing same in, |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 04:05 PM |
#77 |
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Thanks, I did not know that. It still seems risky, though, |
lectrobyte |
Dec-18-06 05:05 PM |
#88 |
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Of course it's risky, but there are no risk-free endeavors worth |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 08:28 PM |
#99 |
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133 people killed in 100 years on Mt Hood. Over 40,000 permits to climb issued per year. |
piedmont |
Dec-18-06 09:05 PM |
#100 |
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this particular route (through the Gullies) probably yes |
northzax |
Dec-19-06 08:28 AM |
#123 |
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technically, you are correct |
northzax |
Dec-19-06 08:29 AM |
#125 |
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everything must pass my approval |
sui generis |
Dec-18-06 04:22 PM |
#85 |
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N.O. is a good analogy. Remember "If you're stupid enough to live in New Orleans...?" |
KrazyKat |
Dec-18-06 07:04 PM |
#96 |
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I think there are restriction or some sort of insurance for rescue |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 04:03 PM |
#76 |
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Good thing I drive a big 4 wheel drive gas guzzling SUV..... |
Kingshakabobo |
Dec-18-06 03:12 PM |
#28 |
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Usually in need refers to the poor. |
treestar |
Dec-18-06 03:12 PM |
#29 |
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Why should we have to pay |
Pithlet |
Dec-18-06 03:22 PM |
#42 |
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No, 'in need' means anyone rich or poor who needs something like... |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:32 PM |
#52 |
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If they are wealthy, they are already paying through their taxes. |
mondo joe |
Dec-19-06 11:21 AM |
#154 |
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We're talking about human beings here... |
DixieBlue |
Dec-19-06 11:54 AM |
#157 |
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I could never be so damn liberal that |
TakesAVillage_People |
Dec-18-06 03:14 PM |
#31 |
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Well, lucky for the rest of us |
Pithlet |
Dec-18-06 03:27 PM |
#46 |
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Well, |
TakesAVillage_People |
Dec-18-06 03:28 PM |
#49 |
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yes, we are responsible for our actions - definitely |
nini |
Dec-18-06 03:30 PM |
#51 |
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With all due respect, |
TakesAVillage_People |
Dec-18-06 03:34 PM |
#55 |
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huh? the subject line in the OP says 'search and rescue' |
nini |
Dec-18-06 03:43 PM |
#68 |
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climbing Mt Hood in winter is foolish |
leftofthedial |
Dec-18-06 03:28 PM |
#48 |
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So you're saying you can't break you leg climbing Mt. Hood in the summer and get stuck. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 03:29 PM |
#50 |
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I did not say that. |
leftofthedial |
Dec-18-06 03:35 PM |
#58 |
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And you know this how? nt |
piedmont |
Dec-18-06 03:41 PM |
#65 |
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I went snow climbing in the Sierras in January. i have also done the same |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-18-06 04:08 PM |
#79 |
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I think on DU |
Pithlet |
Dec-18-06 03:35 PM |
#56 |
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delete... |
Virginia Dare |
Dec-18-06 03:42 PM |
#66 |
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It's completely ridiculous: It's an uber-capitalist, uber-privatization position |
alcibiades_mystery |
Dec-18-06 04:07 PM |
#78 |
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May I take the liberty of a re-post on this? |
TygrBright |
Dec-18-06 04:09 PM |
#80 |
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I likes! Great discussion points. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 04:29 PM |
#86 |
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I read it, and agree |
ninkasi |
Dec-19-06 11:18 AM |
#153 |
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If that's the kind of stuff you're into, you'd love the Guns forum... |
piedmont |
Dec-18-06 09:16 PM |
#102 |
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I know some of the responses I've read make me sick. |
dionysus |
Dec-18-06 04:15 PM |
#81 |
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This was not an accident. This was an avoidable risk. They didn't |
valerief |
Dec-18-06 04:15 PM |
#82 |
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Kind of like women who have sex but then want an abortion. Avoidable |
mondo joe |
Dec-18-06 09:07 PM |
#101 |
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I don't see the risk of death involved with your flame. nt |
valerief |
Dec-19-06 08:19 AM |
#117 |
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Is death the only risk? What about risk of pregnancy? |
mondo joe |
Dec-19-06 08:21 AM |
#118 |
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Death of the rescue team is the risk we're talking about in this thread. nt |
valerief |
Dec-19-06 08:28 AM |
#124 |
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Really? You mean the volunteers who love to do rescues? |
mondo joe |
Dec-19-06 08:49 AM |
#133 |
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No, the ones who don't love to do it. nt |
valerief |
Dec-19-06 08:53 AM |
#136 |
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Which ones are those? |
mondo joe |
Dec-19-06 08:54 AM |
#138 |
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What probabilty of death is acceptable to you? |
piedmont |
Dec-18-06 09:21 PM |
#103 |
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I know that if I get stuck on a remote mountain in a storm and hurt myself I'll probably die there. |
valerief |
Dec-19-06 08:22 AM |
#119 |
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Mt Hood? remote? |
northzax |
Dec-19-06 08:32 AM |
#126 |
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I think the top is remote otherwise they'd be home by now. Duh. |
valerief |
Dec-19-06 08:32 AM |
#127 |
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I think they fell off a cliff |
northzax |
Dec-19-06 08:33 AM |
#128 |
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Your point escapes me. nt |
valerief |
Dec-19-06 08:52 AM |
#135 |
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it's not that it is remote |
northzax |
Dec-19-06 09:06 AM |
#142 |
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I agree with your point, but I also should point out that many of the outdoors people I know |
WI_DEM |
Dec-18-06 04:17 PM |
#83 |
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I love wilderness and hiking and shit like that. |
cobalt1999 |
Dec-18-06 04:43 PM |
#87 |
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Meh. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-18-06 05:05 PM |
#89 |
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I'm With You |
REP |
Dec-18-06 05:22 PM |
#91 |
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They Don't. Don't Judge A Philosophy By The Exceptions Of Crazies, For They Are Low In Number. n/t |
OPERATIONMINDCRIME |
Dec-18-06 05:28 PM |
#92 |
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It is always the crazies that are the loudest. |
xultar |
Dec-18-06 06:20 PM |
#93 |
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Using the "no rescue because they were stupid," rule, the following people are out of luck: |
KrazyKat |
Dec-18-06 07:00 PM |
#95 |
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That last one is the key! |
xultar |
Dec-19-06 07:52 AM |
#113 |
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kind of on a tangent... could we make some variant of ELTs available to all hikers? |
0rganism |
Dec-18-06 07:41 PM |
#98 |
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I haven't read the entire thread yet BUT, |
FlaGranny |
Dec-18-06 09:29 PM |
#104 |
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Put on your galoshes Granny, and wade into the thread.... |
piedmont |
Dec-18-06 09:56 PM |
#105 |
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GRanny- a brief explanation |
northzax |
Dec-19-06 08:45 AM |
#131 |
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I know the rescuers can say it's too dangerous and not |
FlaGranny |
Dec-19-06 12:56 PM |
#159 |
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Whodda thunk... |
Everybody |
Dec-19-06 07:07 AM |
#110 |
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It's not personal responsibility. It is about a society helping the people. |
xultar |
Dec-19-06 07:51 AM |
#112 |
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I'm a flaming liberal, but I'd still buy medevac insurance to pay the bills if something happened... |
gulfcoastliberal |
Dec-19-06 07:10 AM |
#111 |
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Medevac insurance is different than search and rescue. |
xultar |
Dec-19-06 08:19 AM |
#116 |
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I don't have a dog in this fight. But I'm not a big fan of "you're-not-a-real-liberal" threads. |
Skinner |
Dec-19-06 07:54 AM |
#114 |
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I'm just asking. That's all. Putting up a mirror. I never thought that search and rescue |
xultar |
Dec-19-06 08:16 AM |
#115 |
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Why are you picking on New Orleans? |
Lurking_Argyle |
Dec-19-06 08:54 AM |
#139 |
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EXACTLY! Them too. |
xultar |
Dec-19-06 09:06 AM |
#141 |
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Who says I don't like your posts? |
Skinner |
Dec-19-06 09:31 AM |
#148 |
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Perhaps The Same As Those That Think. . . |
ProfessorGAC |
Dec-19-06 08:24 AM |
#120 |
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Are you kidding. I've never been camping in my life. I've never been to camp. |
xultar |
Dec-19-06 08:43 AM |
#130 |
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I Think We're Agreeing |
ProfessorGAC |
Dec-19-06 08:53 AM |
#137 |
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Oh I agree with you. It was a silly litmus test. I knew that when I posted it. |
xultar |
Dec-19-06 09:21 AM |
#144 |
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Consider It Accounted! |
ProfessorGAC |
Dec-19-06 09:25 AM |
#145 |
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I'm a flaming liberal, too. But the costs of risk-taking ought to be borne by the risk-takers. |
WinkyDink |
Dec-19-06 08:48 AM |
#132 |
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How about insurance? |
JNelson6563 |
Dec-19-06 08:55 AM |
#140 |
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Search and rescue first, then figure out the payments if necessary |
Norquist Nemesis |
Dec-19-06 09:19 AM |
#143 |
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Save those taxpayers dollars and spend them on something useful-Iraq. |
Swede |
Dec-19-06 09:29 AM |
#147 |
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Let's face it, America has caught the mean and selfish virus |
AchtungToddler |
Dec-19-06 09:51 AM |
#151 |
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And it appears to be chronic. n/t |
bling bling |
Dec-19-06 11:39 AM |
#156 |
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What about being Responsible Humans for their actions? |
TriMetFan |
Dec-19-06 10:45 AM |
#152 |
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They don't. |
lildreamer316 |
Dec-20-06 02:44 AM |
#160 |
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well basically I have a problem being told I'm heartless |
sui generis |
Dec-20-06 09:12 AM |
#161 |
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I'd suggest the actual Oregon law is a nice balance on responsibility. |
mondo joe |
Dec-20-06 09:16 AM |
#162 |
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