Reply #141: The last word on "Jesse MacBeth."

[grytpype]

Believing in made-up bullshit does not help the cause, people. There were and are plenty of war crimes taking place in Iraq, but this is not one, this is made-up. Period. Quit getting sucked in to a fake story just because it sounds truthy and corresponds to what you already believe. This and the Secret Indictment, it's making me sick.

Comments from the Peace Films Guestbook:

Today , the Army ran a check on Mr. MacBeth’s credentials. It turns out, not surprisingly to anybody with half a mind, that Mr. MacBeth has NO Army service record. Anywhere. Period. This is a direct quote given to me by Army spokesman John Boyce:

“Initial research by the U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg shows no Soldier with the name of Jesse Macbeth having ever been assigned to the Special Forces or the Army Rangers -- which are, in fact, two separate disciplines. This appears to be some sort of hoax. No Soldier by that name at Fort Lewis to our knowledge, in the past, either. Of course, the line about "go into the Army or go to jail" is vintage TV script not heard since the 1960s. There are also numerous wear and appearance issues with the Soldier's uniform -- a mix of foreign uniforms with the sleeves rolled up like a Marine and a badly floppy tan beret worn like a pastry chef. Of course, the allegations of war crimes are vague, as are the awards the Soldier allegedly received.”

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Some earlier comments from real soldiers on the mistakes that give the hoax away:

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Mother Fu**ng LIES!

I hope all of you read what I have to say about this. First, I speak to you, of Ogrish, as a combat veteran myself. I spent 6 years in the army as an Airborne Ranger stationed with an Infantry bgd at the 82nd, and with the 101st LRS Detatchment. This is the most disgusting piece of propaganda footage I have yet to see about the war in Iraq. While there *ARE* instances of deliberate abuse, killing and even torture of Iraqi non combatants, this particular interview is completely staged. Here are my conclusions...
First of all, in the beginning of the picture, the patch the supposed "Ranger" is wearing can be clearly seen on the right shoulder. A US Army soldiers right arm indicates a combat patch. You dont get one unless you've spent 6 months in a designated combat area. That's fine, except, he is wearing a Special Forces "Group" patch. I only know one ranger Unit that is authorized to wear that patch and they were deployed to Afganistan with 5th group. Also, he has two "tabs" sewn above the right arm patch. This is incorrect. An "Airborne" tab should be sewn above it, but nothing else. I assume the second patch is either the "Special Forces" tab, or his supposed "Ranger" tab. Bull s***. It doesn't go there. Also, notice his rank... Two stripes, Corporal (E-4). Thiese are pinned on. Most Units standards will state that rank is to be SEWN ON. Not pinned. Certainly, a ranger unit would uphold this standard. That's WRONG. Next, take a look at his military photo. The wall photo is similar to the ones you will find of any soldier who goes to the E-5 board for promotion. It is required that they have a "Soldier's Photo" taken for their packet. The standard is either BDU's, or Class-A's. He is shown wearing BDU's. His "Ranger" tab should be sewn above his unit patch. It's not there... Next, notice that above his name tag, there is NOTHING sewn on the uniform. Almost 99.9% of Rangers are airborne qualified. It's par for the course. I've NEVER met a L.E.G. (Low Energy Ground) Ranger. This is usually completed before attending ranger school- except for very rare circumstances. Any airborne soldier would proudly display their Jump Wings. Where are they??? Next, no god damned Unit Crest is placed in the center of the patch in his berrett. Finally, his sleeves are rolled up. For most infantry units, this is not allowed. Support units (and some combat units) will roll up their sleeves in warm weather while in garrison- However, Infantry soldiers are usually not permitted to do so because it is NON-TACTICAL for their job duty. "We train like we fight- And we dont ever fight with our sleeves up." Also, they are rolled improperly. The US Marines roll their sleeve like the liars piture. The US Army rolls up their sleeves but then folds the cuff area over the lighter portion of the sleeve to keep the uniform's camof**e pattern continuous. That's wrong. Here's an abbreviated list of discrepencies...

1. Special Forces Combat Patch (Wrong)
2. Two "Tabs" sewn above SF patch (Wrong- Only One)
3. No Ranger Tab
4. No Airborne Wings
5. No Unit Crest
6. No Sewn on Rank
7. No One in the Army rolls their sleeves like that.
Bonus: 8. Mustache is out of regulation by extending past the corner of the mouth.

You don't take a picture like that- with your uniform looking like you got it from some steven segal movie set. Its disrespectful, and an Army ranger would be upholding those standards.

I don't care what the j*** says... He is completely uncredible.

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I am completely against the war in Iraq. Completely. I followed the link to this video in hopes of seeing a soldier speak out against the war in a manner that would inspire others to do the same. Aside from the lack of dates, places and names, I found a few other oddities that I think bear consideration in interpreting this veteran’s interview.

I read through all of the posts after viewing the video. As I found the second post on the matters concerning military dress interesting, I went back and replayed the first part that shows the wall picture.

As a former soldier myself (medic, 91B), I can assure you that no one in the Army rolls their sleeves that way. Absolutely no one. It's no big deal that they're rolled while he's giving the interview, but they are again rolled in the photo on the wall showed at the beginning of the video. There is just no way that could be an acceptable Soldier's Photo. He'd have been called out of regulation in a heartbeat, and those pictures are not taken until the photographer decides the soldier is 'dress right dress.' Or at least that’s what I’ve experienced. You see, in the Army and Airforce we all roll our sleeves so that the inside of the BDU's (battle dress uniform) are not shown. The reasoning is that in any situation, a soldier can yank the cuffs down in one movement. Only Marines and Sailors roll their sleeves in the manner displayed in the wall picture. (And sleeves are never rolled in a combat situation. When I served at Yongsan Garrison's military hospital in Korea, we were not exactly at war but it was still considered a combat theatre-so even in the boiling hot of summer, we weren't allowed to roll our sleeves. And when I worked in Germany after 9-11, the post commander didn’t allow anyone to roll their sleeves because the military was in a combat situation. And I've never seen a battle-ready ranger with rolled sleeves at any time).

Also, all enlisted have a metal unit insignia on their berets, and all officers wear their rank on their berets. This young man has no unit crest on his beret in that photo, which is auspiciously out of regulation. Most important to me is that active members of groups like rangers, pathfinders, snipers and airborne (etc) have khaki patches sewn on to the fronts of their BDU's to identify their specialty. The picture of the young man showed no such patches. And his corporal rank was pin-on. That would never fly in a Soldier's Photo. And yes, his mustache is out of regulation. Though I doubt that would ever get past a ranger's platoon leader much less his 1SG, it would certainly not be allowed in a Soldier's Photo.

Even assuming that the photo shown was taken after he got out of the military, I still have trouble with the sleeve rolling. I can explain away the lack of unit crest, desert BDU’s (issued only to the forces in Iraq) and patches by assuming he threw his uniforms and stuff away when he got out. But even in those circumstances, I wouldn't even think to roll my own sleeves in that way. The Army manner of sleeve-rolling looks much more impressive, is much more versatile and is, well, an integral part of military dress. Assuming he had thrown his old uniforms away, but then went through the trouble of purchasing a new uniform for a photo-op or for family memorabilia (and those ranger berets aren’t easy to come by)- well, it just doesn’t make sense in that context to then put the uniform on incorrectly.

I’m having trouble reconciling myself to the possibility that this interview could be posturing to serve the anti-war movement- and I don’t know whether to hope that I’m right or hope that I’m wrong. To me, the end never justifies the means on any side. We just need more information on this one.