Reply #13: Some background

[Az]

I have been involved in many debates on this topic and witnessed many debates. I will not suggest that the tactics I have seen used are common to all creationists but it is diconcerting how many rely on deception and misleading tactics. I will give a primary example.

One of the common arguments creationists like to use is the entropy argument. This is based on the second law of thermo dynamics. Namely that the energy of a sytem always moves towards entropy. The creationists turn this into an argument that order is a derease in entropy. And since life arising is an increase in order it is a violation of the second law of thermo dynamics.

They play this particular card typically in front of large audiences during a public debate. It seems scientific. Its easy to understand. And it forces the scientist to explain a lot of things.

First of all earth is not a closed system. The second law of thermo dynamics only applies to closed systems. Any system that is recieving energy from another source is free of this contraint. Order can increase where energy is being pumped into the system. The sun provides a constant source of energy to the earth.

Second and perhaps more importantly. Even in a closed system you can have pools of increased order. As long as the system over all trends towards entropy the law is not violated. Thus you can have momentary increases in order as the system moves towards equal distribution over time.

Now here is the underhanded part. I have watched creationists try this argument and have the correction presented to them. They are shown they are mistaken in their application of the theory. They abandon it when faced with a proponent that is familiar with the error. But as soon as the audience changes or there is a different opponent they bring the entropy argument back out again.

If this occurred once or twice I could dismiss it as merely someone that does not understand the implications of their actions. But it is a fairly consistant argument and it has been debunked countless times. But they continue to bring it back. Namely because it works on those unfamiliar with the issues. The goal seems to be not one of arguing for accuracy but rather to win as many over as possible and create confusion by any means available.

I am hard pressed not to see the use of these tactics and directly malicious and conscious of their effects. I may be mistaken but I find such actions to be disreputable and underhanded. I am sure my fellow atheists have run into similar situations themselves.

I hope this explains why some attitude is held towards the creationists. From our perspective it does not seem as though they are arguing from a scientifically detached perspective. Instead they have an agenda and they are working to see it through no matter what. I could be wrong but that is the way it seems to many of us.