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Reply #43: Only one of those says that he did. [View All]

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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Only one of those says that he did.
(I'm replying here instead of to your post #39 so I can read what you wrote while responding.)

Matthew 20:28 has him implying that his death pays a debt of sin. That answers my question. As for the rest...

I think you took Mark 2:17 out of context--verses 15 and 16 have Jesus answering a direct question about who he associates with.
15And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The question was about dinner guests and his answer in verse 17 is straight out of a TV skid-row mission. "I bring these men of ill-repute into this house so that they may be saved!" It's a big stretch to say that Jesus is saying that he's going to sacrifice himself so that all may be saved.

Matthew 4:17 is similar--Jesus is starting a ministry centered on repentance in anticipation of the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven.

John 12:27 is in the middle of a conversation between Jesus and God (?).
26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. 27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

Put back into context, it doesn't really seem to carry a meaning of "I came to die for your sins."

John 18:37 seems to have Jesus saying something along the lines of "I am the King in the Kingdom of Heaven" which makes a lot of sense if he's supposed to be God.
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