Reply #4: if you're looking for a clear answer, i ain't got one ...

[welshTerrier2]

let me start by addressing what all good lefties should be doing ... yes, I support the PDA model of doing all we can to "fix" the Democratic Party ... and that does not mean that we are absolutely glued to voting for Democrats ... we each have our own breaking points ... frankly, i respect that in others ...

those who vote Green - so be it ... you read the landscape and you make your best call ... but i still think registered Greens are making a mistake ... for now, like it or not, the greatest potential source of progressive power lies with the two party system ... i believe progressives should follow the PDA model and do all they can to move the Democratic Party in the right (ummmm, better make that correct) direction ... there are certainly no guarantees the party will ever truly return to its progressive roots ... i still believe we have to try ...

but i don't disparage Greens or other progressive parties ... and i'm certainly NOT saying people shouldn't vote Green ... that's not at all my point ... but "some distance ahead of elections", there's good work that can be done inside the Democratic Party ... building coalitions with progressive Democrats can be a very positive thing to do ... and building viable third parties is certainly worth considering ... i just don't think one process should necessarily preclude the other ... one might, perhaps, be seen as working hard on the "short-term" battles; the other, perhaps, might be seen as working hard on longer term battles ...

so, for now, that's my basic view on the political implications of the OP question ... i have always voted for Democrats and never for a third party candidate ... i'm deeply troubled these days with many things about the Democratic Party ... i'm hoping i can support the '08 Dem nominee in good conscience; i'm not all that optimistic about it right now ... i will NOT be voting for a war supporter and no matter what tap dances are spun, i'm afraid the current crop of "maybes" is just that ...

now, on the issue of the Democrats being the corporate B-Team, that has always been the question on the table ... is there some macro power allowing the pendulum to drift a little left (i.e. to the B-Team) when the A-Team has alienated the citizenry a little too much? is the B-Team sort of a "pressure release valve" that eases things back a notch or two when the natives get restless? to this, i have no specific answer ... it's a painful question to consider ... i just don't know the truth ...

but i raise this question all the time ... here's a list of posts i've made recently that, in one way or another, talk about corporate excesses in this country ... one of the more recent ones asked DU'ers to provide real specifics about how the Democratic Party was standing up for workers to shift the balance of power from favoring stockholders to favoring workers ... there really were no responses that provided the party's positions ...

here are some of the links:
on empowering workers in their struggle against stockholders:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2812133
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2810105
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/welshTerrier2/94

and on foreign policy (i.e. corporate imperialism):
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/welshTerrier2/92
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/welshTerrier2/96

the result of all this is that corporations have destroyed most of our democratic institutions ... they have severely deepened the divide between the haves and the have nots ... they have seized control of the US government and its agendas both foreign and domestic ... and they have brought both the US and the global community to the precipice ...

do Democrats support this agenda? well, the problem is, i don't see them as major opponents of it ... have Democrats spoken about the projection of US military presence all over the world ... the US now occupies more than 700 military bases in foreign countries ... many of these countries are currently in the process of pushing this form of colonization out ... do Democrats speak out against the military-industrial complex that has greatly weakened and bankrupted us or are they too busy convincing Americans they're "tough on defense" to even dare address the issue? have Democrats argued that US foreign policy does little more than cater to mega-corporations? have Democrats made the case against "corporate personhood"? have Democrats genuinely fought to alter the balance of power between stockholders and workers?

make no mistake about it, Democrats fight for health care and minimum wage and OSHA laws and pollution controls and many other "progressive" things ... and i value what they have achieved on many of these issues ... but, and it's a great big BUT, in the end, one must still ask whether they are trying to put bandaids on corporate exploitation ... whether it's their intent or not, the result is that the "pressure release valve" diffuses the resistance but it does not change the fundamentals of power ... in the end, their actions, while clearly better than republican policies, do not deliver real power to the underclasses ... the result? corporate tyranny remains unchallenged in our two party system ...

excellent thread ... k&r ...

oh, and as an extra special, super-duper reward for having reached the bottom of this post, i offer you this most remarkable treat of Friday night madness: http://www.sonnyradio.com/chrisbliss.html ... this guy is very, very far beyond amazing ... crank the audio and watch him go ...