Reply #58: let's go back to square one ...

[welshTerrier2]

you posted about polls of Iraqis and how they felt about the American invasion of their country ...

what's at issue, if i've understood your harsh criticisms, is whether the quotes i posted were out of context ...

let's take the first quote ... Clark said: "Liberation is at hand. Liberation -- the powerful balm that justifies painful sacrifice, erases lingering doubt and reinforces bold actions. Already the scent of victory is in the air. Yet a bit more work and some careful reckoning need to be done before we take our triumph . . . President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt."

now if you see what i posted as out of context, please show me why ... i think the quote is horrible ... here's why ... take the first sentence ... what i'm reading is that Clark is saying that the ends justify the means ... he's saying that liberation "justifies" sacrifice and "erases" lingering doubt ... IT DID NOT ERASE MY DOUBTS ... first, i never believed we were "liberating" the Iraqis ... can you say "puppet government"????? can you say exploitation??? can you say "the whole world hates us"???? suggesting that "liberation" erased doubt or reinforced the "bold act" of the world's biggest exporter of militarism against a pathetic, weakened state is a whole lot of praise for a whole lot of stuff i abhor ...

yes, as you point out, Clark makes the case that there's much more work to be done ... fine ... but that doesn't change what he said about the "powerful balm" (maybe he meant "bomb") of "liberation" ... he said that the sacrifice was justified because of the result it achieved ... and he described an illegal invasion as a "bold action" ...

and then General Clark offered this: President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt.

so let's talk about their resolve ... no doubt about it; they sure were "resolute" ... they were unyielding ... they were going to war before the case for war had even been made ... they were hellbent on going to war ... they were going to war before bush even took office ... but they American people didn't want this war ... the people around the world did not want this war ... why in the hell would anyone compliment bush and Blair for being "resolute"; hawkish, undemocratic, war criminals, and imperialists are words that come to mind; "resolute"? - not so much ...

but then, all these arguments aside, your point was that posting the quotes i did distorted General Clark's position ... even absent questioning my motives for doing so, your point was that the quotes, let just take the first one at this point, presented an unfair and distorted intent about what Clark said ... i trust you'll accept the idea of posting an excerpt if it does not distort the meaning? have i misunderstood the intent of Clark's words from the first quote? if we nestle them back into their original womb would they be understood very differently? i just don't see how ...

i too will stop here for the sake of what's left of brevity ...