Reply #103: I have a few suggestions.

[Englander]

The chances of them being implemented, or any of them occuring are slim, to
non-existant, frankly. I think it will be decades before this cycle of tit-for-tat
vengeful violence is broken, which is one way to 'stop the kassams', to end the
cycle of violence. The attitude that only one side should stop, or that only one
side is guilty, or that only one side are terrorwists, only helps to prolong the
fubar situation.

bemildred & Vi have already, in this thread, made some suggestions, & if I may, I
will post their comments here, all of which I agree with;

bemildred -

The outcome of the Gaza withdrawal so far has been exactly what you might expect, you are out of Gaza. That's it. And it's still a heck of a deal. If you want the Palestinians to end the resistance you are going to have to do something about their grievances, among which giving up the former occupation of Gaza is small but important contribution.

If you like what you are getting now, just keep doing what you are doing, violence begets violence. If you want some other outcome, you're going to have to do something else, mix it up a bit more. Artillery and propaganda won't do the job.

Did you read the Katz dimwit blathering about driving the Palestinians into Sinai with artillery, but he didn't really mean to hit population centers? When you get some sophmoric prick like that spouting obviously self-contradictory babble, you know he's got a problem with his fundamental assumptions, he's trying to have it both ways. There is no finite amount of being shitty to the Palestinians that will ever suddenly cause them to start being nice, and whatever eventual solutions to the present mess might be found, none of them are going to work in a week or two, they will take years, generations of steady application to work.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=108352&mesg_id=108380

Violet_Crumble -

They're pretty dodgy as far as aim goes, from what I understand. As far as I'm concerned both Palestinians and Israelis have their own different grievances, none of which should make killing justified...

You don't think turning the power off in Gaza wouldn't result in the deaths of Palestinians? Of course it would. Doing that wouldn't just be an attempt to kill - it'd directly result in deaths. And what if the Palestinians use the argument you've used and decide they don't have to wait till the power gets turned off and innocent people die before they react? Violence is not the answer to any of this, and there is no justification for one 'side' to use violence while condemning the use of violence from the other 'side'...

Violet...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=108352&mesg_id=108498

Violet_Crumble -

The reason I don't have a solution for the firing of Qassams into Israel is that I think there's a few things that would have to happen to make them want to stop doing it, and none of those are quick-fixes, but bigger picture stuff, like entering into negotiations that result in the occupation of the West Bank ending, and one that addresses all the contentious issues of the conflict (eg refugees and Jerusalem). What I do know, however, is that 'solutions' which involve harm and displacement of civilian populations are not going to solve anything, and in fact will more than likely make things worse. Just for the record, I don't tend to have a problem with Israel's actions when they're legal and involve actions that I would expect any country to take to defend itself and it's citizens...

On the responsibility issue (sorry, I'm rolling a few of yr posts into one response here) - When it comes to those who fire Qassams into Israel or my example of extremist settlers who murder Palestinians, I think there's different levels of responsibility. The primary responsibility is that of the individual who carries out those acts. Neither the PA nor the Israeli govt carries out those actions, but I do feel they hold a secondary responsibility. I know we both agree that both govts should do what they can to stop such attacks, but the reality is that both have their reasons as to why they can't or won't do it...

Violet...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=108352&mesg_id=108696