Reply #22: Jesus, you can not be this thick.

[beevul]

"if the suspicion is based on ethnicity, that's racial prejudice"

If its ENTIRELY baed on ethnicity, yes.

I suggest you talk to an FFL holder near the border, and ask them what criteria the ATF asks them to use, and if you still have these objections, you take them up with the ATF.

"This isn't the world I wanted, it's the world you wanted. You can't refuse to make the sale based solely on the color of the buyer, you can't refuse to sell 10 ar-15's to the brown dude and then turn around and sell the same 10 ar-15's to the white dude. This is America, Jack."

I never said anyone could or should refuse a sale based souly on ethnicity. Kindly take your words out of my mouth, Jack. Ignorance and arrogance wrapped up neatly in a single package. How efficient of you.

Unless you can make the case, that the gun dealer in question WAS refusing to make a sale SOLELY based on ethnicity - then you really have no point that applies to this discussion. Of course, you'll have to find that in some other article, since this one does not say anything of the sort, OR (and more likely) you'll have to make it up.

"I poked around a bit, and didn't find any evidence that the ATF is requiring FFL holders to profile their customers and deny sales based on ethnicity. Be genuinely interested in whether this is actually true, and whether you can show me any evidence of that. All I found was that they are requiring notification for sales of multiple semiautomatic rifles. If the ATF is requiring profiling, that seems like a pretty clear violation of the 14th amendment, which is why I'm sceptical of this claim. It would also be pretty dumb, since white boys can smuggle guns just as well as mexicans can."


This is why I said to ask a gun dealer on the border. I lived on the border for a number of years, in addition to having a good friend whos spouse is former ATF. I know both from discussing with the proprietor of a gun shop near the border numerous times, and from talking to that spouse, what the ATF asks FFL holders that operate on the borders to look for, where straw purchasers are concerned. Beyond that, you, sir, should be the last person to EVER ask for evidence of anything, since you happen to be the last one to ever cite any. You cite things, but evidence is the point the things you cite is farthest from. I'm beginning to think you either don't or can't read. And that applies equally as much to the things you post as it does to the posts of others.

"I don't see that limiting the number of weapons that a person can purchase in a certain time frame is unduly burdensome, compared to what could be gained from such a practice. Didn't you say you wanted to stop straw purchases to drug gangs...or are you just interested in denying sales based on ethnicity?"

Of course you don't. I suspect you never met a gun regulation other than CCW you didn't like. I'm for leaving it up to those abiding by the law to decide whats burdensome, rather than someone who is against the lawful exercise of a right.

Beyond that, yes, yes I'd like to see straw purchases end. No, I won't support further limitations on the law abiding to accomplish it.

My interest is not in denying firearm sales based on ethnicity. I have never said, implied, or eluded to otherwise. My interest is in whether ATF is allowing sales they would otherwise deny, to inflate numbers to advance an agenda. You yourself admitted that if the allowed sales end up in the hands of south of the border gangs, and end up traced, they'll be counted as "american guns fueling mexican drug wars". Do the math sparky. Its simple addition, and there are people you can ask here and elsewhere if you have trouble.


"We are losing. You and I. The gun lobby is winning. Don't confuse yourself with firearms manufacturers. Your interests are not the same as theirs."

Ahh forced teaming. I love it. Not. I'll decide what my own interests are, thanks. I can't help but notice you seem to like presuming to tell others what their interests and needs are. How profoundly arrogant, unoriginal, and unsurprising.

Firearm manufacturers are not some monolithic entity, and I'm not losing anything. I see the gun rights agenda gaining steam. I see your agenda hanging on by the thinnest of threads. My interest in that regard, is to see things continue along those lines, until the gun culture becomes so large and powerful that people like you have no hope of ever doing anything about it.

And it is well on its way. Enjoy.

I know I am.