Reply #90: Of course it doesn't.

[gorfle]

Posting a reply does not automatically win an argument

Of course not. But my rebuttals from post #56 on down sure do. Ultimately you conceded every point except the effectiveness of The People in rebellion.

The idea that the founding fathers thought Bubba and his popgun would defeat a military coup is ridiculous, dangerous and ahistorical.

Well then I suggest you start reading again from #56, as well as some history books.

First of all, as I said, the foundering fathers were not just concerned about military coups. What they were mostly concerned about was federal tyranny, and that the federal government would use its military as a tool of oppression.

Second of all, "Bubba and his popgun", as you put it in your attempt to downplay their effectiveness, had just played a major role in winning the nation they founded.

Third of all, my "popgun" is virtually the same as small arm used by most of the world's military forces. The AK47 is the most copied, widespread military arm in the world. So much for "popgun".

You already agreed with me that the founders intended for there to be a decentralized military system to defend against tyranny.

You already agreed with me that the militias of the founders' era no longer exist.

You do not disagree with me that the sole people left to uphold the founders vision are The People, whose right to keep and bear arms they specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

The only thing you have to offer is that you don't think The People would be effective at defeating tyranny.

And to that, as I have already said, it does not matter how effective you or I think The People would be at rebelling against tyranny. What matters is did the founders intend for the people to do so?

Question for you: Why do you think the founders said the right of The People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and not the militia?

Question for you: When Thomas Jefferson said, ""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.", why do you think he said that?

Question for you: When George mason said, "I ask, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." Why do you think he said that?

Question for you: When James Madison said, "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.", what advantage do you think he was speaking of?

Question for you: When Alexander Hamilton said, "If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens.", do you think Mr. Hamilton thought The People could triumph over government military forces?

Question for you: When Noah Webster said, "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power.", do you think Mr. Webster thought The People could triumph over government military forces?