Reply #65: So,

[tama]

What are we really speaking about here?

No matter what, at current pace all fossile fuels will peak relatively soon (this century, while our kids live their lives). And more and faster we burn them, the more abrupt the climate change will be and adjusting more painfull.

Renewable grid can or could be built (though jury is still out if that could be done sustainably, EROEI wise etc.) and renewables can or could substitute some of the fossile - how much in a given time frame, nobody can really say. What is certain is that what powers that be publicly plan is too far too little far too late and they cannot be trusted to be able to deliver even that little. What is even more crucial, the social model based on continuous growth (driven by banking system based on interest... on interest) cannot endure stagnation, even less diminishing energy resources. And the fact is, world energy per capita peaked allready in 1979 and the global ecomy since than has been based on inflating humongous financial bubble and pillaging of last remaining natural and human resources at ever increasing pace, not real growth of real economy like it was earlier last century. And when foundation (growth) crumbles away from a social order based on growth, what happens is what happens to every pyramid fraud. Just on a scale never seen before.

That's what implied by the lesson from Cuba. It proves that soft landing is possible, at least in principle and in a socialist society, just like even double or triple our numbers could live sustainably on this planet as organic gardeners, in principle. But what matters is practise in the social reality of capitalism, where every VIP keeps on thinking, speaking and acting in terms of unlimited growth and consumption. And all actions for the insanity of unlimited growth is away from adopting to sustainable way of life with as soft landing as can be achieved.

To summarize:
- Unlimited growth in limited environment is impossible, simple as that.
- The energy ceiling has been hit allready (1979 to be exact) and things will get only worse in that respect this century
- To avoid suffering that could be avoided - "soft landing" - the causes of the problem of growthmania need to be understood so we can stop causing it. Meaning that the whole capitalistic social order must change, starting from declaring again interest (aka usury) suicidal sin.

To end with a more positive note, the collaps of the capitalistic/corporate fascist system which creates mainly misery and suffering is of course not a bad thing but a good thing. It opens up wonderfull new opportunities. During and after the collapse I see three main tendencies, happening simultaneously in different locations:
1) Mad Max style barbarianism ("gun toting survivalists and zombie herds")
2) Socialism (on state levels, aiming for global socialist state, "soft landers")
3) Ecoanarchism (small self sufficient permaculture communities aka "ecovillages" governed by anarchistic principles ("seed planters"))

I've allready gone through my socialist stage (in a trotter group), currently I'm learning gardening and dreaming of moving to an ecovillage. :)