Reply #47: Well there are three possiblities

[kristopher]

Either you didn't read any of the material, or you don't understand what you read, or both. I think you just don't have the candlepower to engage in critical analysis. The only "proof" you understand is when Limbaugh or some other such schlep tells you what to think. I mean, tell the truth, you think FERC is a terrorist outfit in Colombia, don't you? - K

First let me repeat something I've said many times before: The specific benefits of V2G change as market penetration for EVs increases. So when report or article talks about one particular benefit, it isn't excluding other scenarios that are part of a different level of market penetration.


From the Toyota blog pages:
IRV'S SHEET: On Batteries and Power to the Grid
"As you might imagine, a set of comments made Sunday at the North American International Auto Show by Katsuaki Watanabe, president of Toyota Motor Corp., received a great deal of attention, discussion and response.

Mr. Watanabe, you may recall, announced that Toyota has begun the planning for a production line for lithium-ion batteries, and we plan to have Prius Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs), powered by such batteries, in the hands of fleet customers by 2010, or sooner. It's just one part of Toyota's global plan to sell a million hybrids per year some time during the next decade.

One response to Mr. Watanabe’s announcement came from Jon Wellinghoff, a commissioner with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and it showed up right here on Open Road.

Commissioner Wellinghoff commended us for "stepping up to the plate with a commitment to begin delivering PHEVs to fleet purchasers in the U.S. within the next two years. This announcement supports what many have stated regarding lithium battery technology. It is viable for use in vehicles here and now."

And he continued, "I only hope that Toyota will also take an additional step when it rolls out these vehicles to fleet purchasers - make them vehicle-to-grid capable so that the benefits and synergies of storage support for the grid can be realized by Toyota from a more valuable product, the consumer from payments back from grid operators for the provision of grid support services, and society from a more efficient electric grid."..."
http://blog.toyota.com/2008/01/irvs-sheet-on-b.html



Here are the initial PERSONAL comments from Jon Wellinghoff, Commissioner at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) and Willett Kempton, Professor, University of Delaware. Kempton is the guy I'm talking about.

"The following comments are provided to DOE on its PHEV
R&D Plan, External Draft, March 2007. They have been submitted
in outline form for efficiency and conciseness. The authors would
welcome the opportunity to provide additional input or
clarification to DOE at your convenience.

Our purpose in submitting these comments to DOE is to
bring to the attention of both DOE PHEV program managers and
senior DOE staff our strong belief that the expressed direction of
the DOE PHEV R&D effort as portrayed in the External Draft
ignores an opportunity to realize significant benefits that are
readily attainable. It is our opinion that the potential benefits of
vehicle-to-grid (V2G) PHEVs (or the “CashBack” hybrid) are so
compelling that the technology is clearly an enabler of both the
“smart grid” and the successful market penetration of the PHEV
itself. As such, DOE should incorporate the CashBack hybrid into
the PHEV R&D Plan.

No link as it is a pdf. You can find it with google.


Here is a report on the topic prepared by an independent investigator for the California Air Resources Board
and the California Environmental Protection Agency: http://www.udel.edu/V2G/docs/V2G-Demo-Brooks-02-R5.pdf


Here is an article on the plans of the Swedes to develop wind around the V2G concept:

Sweden isn't a hot wind power market in Europe, not compared to Germany (20,000 MW of capacity), Spain (11,000 MW) or even Great Britain (nearly 2,000 MW). In fact, the Swedes currently have a paltry 572 MW of wind capacity, generating about 1.2TWh of power last year - less than one percent of electricity produced in this Nordic nation.

But Sweden has audacious goals (4.9 TWh of generation by 2010), and is starting to formulate a big vision to go with its big plans, based on the idea of wind power helping to drive (bad pun alert) a new generation of plug-in hybrid vehicles creating plausible climate neutral driving.

The way the Swedish Windpower Developers Association (SVIS) sees it, the Swedish vehicle industry (Volvo and Saab) and Swedish windpower are a great fit.

There are a few reasons why these gung-ho Swedish wind proponents may have a chance. It is true that Sweden will probably need to vastly up its renewable generation and reduce CO2 emissions further in coming years, especially after the EU sets binding CO2 reduction targets for the post-2012 period, which it should do early next year.

Wind is one of Sweden's best bets. Hydro power is pretty developed, remaining rivers are already protected - and biomass resources, which benefited from a green certificate subsidy system, are also fairly well-exploited.

Combining turbines with hybrids in a distributed generation system may not be such a stretch for the Swedes. Wind generation is a bit fickle, and many grid systems including Sweden's are not built to handle lots of incoming electricity from the spots where the wind blows best. But in a vehicle-to-grid (V2G) system, many small wind installations feeding in power are balanced by electric or hybrid-electric cars plugged in and theoretically offering up their excess capacity during times of peak need, taking it back late at night or when demand is lower.

Two more points in the Swedes' favor: the first European lithium-ion battery developer just opened its doors in Sweden, and Volvo at least is heavily investing in hybrid-electric technology. Volvo Cars is now showing its C30 ReCharge hybrid-electric plug-in concept car, and perhaps as important, Volvo Trucks is at work on a next generation of all kinds of hybrid vehicles.

Also not to be overlooked: Volvo and Saab with their nice heavy (safe) cars, unfortunately have some of the highest fleet-average CO2 emissions in Europe, which they will need to rectify.

There are definite roadblocks - in spite of itself Sweden hasn't been able to yet streamline approvals for wind power projects, whether they are for 12 turbines or 1,200. The approval process for Lillgrund, the new offshore wind farm in the picture, took a decade! And many Swedes, grown up on a combination of clean hydro and nuclear, see wind power as great in theory but in practice, a NIMBY nuisance. There are also clearly technology hurdles - battery cost and sophistication are just two.

But SVIS is conviced that V2G is a great concept to sell to the environmentally-conscious as well as everyone else, and will put forth its vision to the government in a few days, hoping for a new national policy on wind power and a plan for how to form a Swedish V2G network.
http://peakenergy.blogspot.com/2007/10/v2g-in-sweden.ht...


http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/865.html


There is lots more where that came from.