Reply #20: I point out the old system to show how bad it can get

[happyslug]

And that it is NOT that bad. As to renew ables, a horse is more efficient in converting food energy to hauling power then any internal combustion engine. The internal Combustion engine came into use do to access to cheap oil, without cheap oil the internal combustion engine main advantage (Speed) becomes less and less important as the price of oil goes up.

People forget that "renew ables" they are using today is raised using oil. As oil increase in costs, the renew ables itself will be used to raise the crops, and that in effect will raise the cost of those crops. Sooner or later you cross a threshold where it is more profitable to raise the crops using "traditional" methods. At that point the horse comes into its own, both on the farm and elsewhere.

Thus the problem with "Renew-ables" is raising the renewable crop. Prior to the 1950s most people spent 40-50% of their income on food, it is now down to 10-20%, all do to the farmers using oil and tractors instead of horses in the fields. As the price of oil continue to climb food prices will continue to climb and with it the costs of the renew ables forms of energy. Sooner or later the problem of transport will get to much and the horse will replace the tractor and with that movement renew ables, except for certain areas where speed is needed such as ambulances, will disappear.

Rail can use Solar, Hydro, Nuclear and other sources for any conversion to electric drive, thus will survive as the main form of heavy, long distance transport, but renew ables have the problem of how do you raise the crop that will become renew ables? It will be more efficient to feed the crop to horses then to convert the crop to bio-diesel and then feed that bio-diesel to an internal combustion engine.