Reply #30: I understand that is a popular perception, but it isn't correct.

[kristopher]

I take it you acknowledge that producing LIon batteries isn't a particularly toxic endeavor.

In light of the scale of available to be tapped raw resources, renewables are a vastly larger pool of energy than all the fossils we could possible extract; so I don't understand your claim that "there simply aren't enough to power the autobahn and keep the lights on."

Look at the energy requirement as NNadir likes to phrase it, as a massive whole. And lets switch the discussion back to the US so I don't have to grope around for the numbers.

In 2005 the US consumed about 100 quadrillion Btus of energy. About 40 quads of that was petroleum for transportation. The personal transportation sector is about 75% of that for 30 quads. Does that mean we need an additional 30 quads for the grid if we shift to battery electric?

No, it doesn't.

If we start with the grid as it is presently configured, what happens?

First, because of the efficiency gains of electric drive over internal combustion we only need about 15% (4.5 quads) of that 30 quads to be added to the grid. That's right, to provide for the personal transportation sector we need to add only 4.5 quads of delivered capacity to the grid.

That of course, is a rough sketch.


It leaves out a close examination of grid efficiency, and it leaves out reduced driving demand as higher transportation costs for everything push people into a more communal lifestyle; AND it doesn't take into account that it would likely result in more efficient use of the current grid as much of the spinning reserve that operates overnight is now productively used to charge batteries.

With that final point alone, there may be very little need to at any capacity at all to the grid.

A coal generator is huge; they are so long and heavy that the shaft sags if it isn't spinning. So standby power provided by coal, even when it is only going to be used for a couple of hours in the afternoon, is supplied by keeping those generators running 24/7. Utilizing that power is a huge efficiency gain.

I'll stop there, but if you are interested we can put more flesh on this carcass.

Edit: I really should proof this stuff before hitting send... 17 typos...