Reply #31: please focus on the subject - this is how...

[abubalboola]

Peacetalksforall, instead of building arguments and counter-refuting mine, you seem to pour more and more words regardless of what is said. my argument was that a handful of violent activists did something that should have been criticized also.
Peacetalksforall, I suggest we continue the discussion because we both can learn only if we really try to see things from the other side point of view. I commit to trying this. I hope you too.

I would like to refer to each of your arguments:

1. peacetalksforall: "Israel targeted the ship that the most of the Moslems were on. Is that correct or not correct from your insider knowledge."
abubalboola: No. The ship was not targeted BECAUSE there were Muslims on board.

2. peacetalksforall: "These people didn't have AK-47's, missiles, other guns, hand grenades, bombs. They did not have all the latest technology - for night vision and everything else these Israelis were carrying."
abubalboola: I agree.

3. peacetalksforall: "We have still to learn who gave the order to shoot."
abubalboola: It was the naval army commander. This is no secret. I strongly suggest to ask "When did he give the order, and why". Do you agree that this is a valid and important question?

4. peacetalksforall: "Those aid activists didn't have the usual pile of stones."
abubalboola: I agree there were no stones. However, the videos clearly show clubs, metal sticks, chains, long knives.
Do you reject that claim?
(See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYNn2AKbTV4&feature=related )

5. peacetalksforall: "The soldiers had the benefit of our $7 million dollar a day gift of aid (U.S. to Israel aid)."
abubalboola: Sorry, this is not an argument for our current discussion.

6. peacetalksforall: "It is easy for me to believe that those IDF soldiers treated them with aggression knowing who there were."
abubalboola: I disagree that this is why aggression was used by the IDF. I claim that the IDF used aggression only after a handful of soldiers were attacked by an angry mob immediately once they came down from the helicopter (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo )

7. peacetalksforall: "If Israeli intelligence knew there was something on those ships that was more than aid, they should have said so long before they chose violence through invasion and death."
abubalboola: The choice of violence on board of the ship was taken by the handful of violent activists. From that point, the aggression of the IDF soldiers was in self defense.

8. peacetalksforall: "There should be an embardo on Israel, but let's wait for the investigations and depositions."
abubalboola: This is out of the scope of our current discussion. Still, my opinion is that if this is so, then there should also be an embargo on Hamas. But what I hope is that instead, all sides would back off. Note that "All" sides. That includes Hamas, Turkey and the mainstream media.

9. peacetalksforall: "I don't believe anything the current leaders of Israel say. Sorry."
abubalboola: No need to belive them. I am merely pointing to the video which shows clearly a mob clubbing soldiers (who just go on board and did not open fire yet!)

peacetalkforall, please let me know your thoughts.
Abubalboola