Reply #47: thanks

[bpilgrim]

1) The Emperor is no longer looked upon as a god.
It didn't take the militarist long to bring that tradion back in the 20/30's

The "god" thing was reintroduced in the 1860s, when most Japanese were uneducated peasants who would believe nearly anything. Sort of like today's North Koreans.


The origins of the emperor have always been rooted in religion, true, the meji-restoration marks the begining of japans embrace of moderninity/internationism and unification which the long traditional institution of emperor served as a the perfect symbolic rallying icon.

As japan entered the 20th centuary constitutional rights were being granted to the people for the first time and a parlimentary goverment with multible parties were participants in the gov.

in the late 20's till the end of wwII the rise of militarism begins in japans gov and the EXPLOITATION of japans traditional LARGELY symbolic role of emperor for their OWN ENDS.

The Rise of the Militarists

... when Hirohito was enthroned in 1927, initiating the Showa period (Bright Harmony, 1926-89), there were calls for a "Showa Restoration" and a revival of Shinto. Emperor-centered neo-Shintoism, or State Shinto, which had long been developing, came to fruition in the 1930s and 1940s. It glorified the emperor and traditional Japanese virtues to the exclusion of Western influences, which were perceived as greedy, individualistic, bourgeois, and assertive. The ideals of the Japanese family-state and self-sacrifice in service of the nation were given a missionary interpretation and were thought by their ultranationalist proponents to be applicable to the modern world.

more...
http://www.willamette.edu/~rloftus/militarismrise.html




> Religion has little role in
> Japanese society today.
Were did EVERYBODY go during NEW YEARS?

I don't know where "everybody" went during New Year's, but a lot went to Shinto shrines or Buddhist temples to pray for a good year. That doesn't mean that they are fervently religious. A better question would be, Where do they go during the other 364 days of the year? Unless someone in their family has died, or they are on some sort of cultural discovery trip, it is very likely that they won't see the inside of a temple for the rest of the year.


i am not claiming they are 'fervently religious' just that religion STILL plays a large and almost universal role, even today, in society.


As for Koizumi's insistence on going to Yasukuni Shrine, that it his business, but it does not signify that the country as a whole is passionate about this.


again my point is not about 'passion' just that the japanese are religious.


Regarding the hinomaru flag, it is no big deal to show the flag during commencement and graduation ceremonies.

i disagree. NATIONALISM has done so much damage in the world and especially in japan that it always makes me sad to see this creeping back into politics and society today.

I remember when most schools DID NOT fly the national flag for obvious, and in my opinion correct reasons from their recent past.

This does not equate to flag worship. The hinomaru flies over the schools that my children attend but it does not bother me. During their major school event, Sports Day, their schools will adorn the athletic field with flags of a number of countries-- with the hinomaru taking a very unprominent position. On major national holidays, such as Constitution Day and Founding of Japan Day, very few people will fly the flag at their homes. And I have never seen a hinomaru bumper sticker on someone's car-- the only place I've seen them is on the sides of the "black speaker trucks" that are so popular with some of the ultra rightwingers.


yes, the radicals are still active and vocal...


Right Wing Nationalists in Ikebukuro complaining about foreigners in Japan. On this day they were giving their opinions on the Iraq war.


> 2) Japanese schoolkids are taught early on about the benefits of peace
> (speaking as one who has kids in the Japanese school system).
So are ours. Yet we are the military active nation on the planet.

I would venture to say that American kids are taught more about the benefits of wars-- that is, of winning wars. Everything from the Revolution to the winning of the Mexican War to the "Winning of the West" to the winning of the Spanish=American War to the winning of WWI and WWII to the "winning" of the Cold War is deeply ingrained into our heads. On the other hand, Japanese kids are taught very little about their forefathers' victories in China/Taiwan, Russia, Korea, and so on. It is too "shameful".



no argument from be about the lead we currently have in degree and spending.
but the japanese are certainly are today still taught to win at all cost. that type of mentality can be dangerous when focused by the gov in the wrong direction.



3) Most Japanese have an excellent chance to be part of the middle class.

As you should note, I qualified my statement with "most". That does not mean "all". I am well aware of the "burakumin", even mentioning them recently on another thread. I am well aware that even today, the families of prospective spouses will check each others' family registers to make sure there are no "undesirables" in the gene pool. However, this practice is gradually fading away, although it does seem to be persistent in some of the more conservative parts of the country. At the same time, the government has been working to provide more opportunities for the "burakumin" to join the mainstream society.


agreed.


4) Today's Japanese make a more concerted effort to understand--and coexist
> with-- other cultures.

That has been true since the late 1800's as championed by Ryoma Sakamoto

Mr. Sakamoto may have been interested in foreign cultures, but mostly as a way to gain much needed information and technology from them. But back in his day, most Japanese were lucky to be able to travel to a neighboring province, much less to another country. In contrast, today a large number of Japanese, especially young people, make trips overseas and/or know people from other countries. This is far different from what the situation was like before WWII.


that is true of all internationalist usually AND my point was that he made it a noble persuit and actively encouraged it (learning and interacting abroad and with foreigners) where up till that time japan was very isolationalist.

you could say he was the father of modernism and japans insatiable thirst for everything foreign, especially today.


5) Japanese are far better educated today.
They weren't no dummies in the 30's and 40's either

Higher education was the exclusive domain of the elite in those days, and women were limited to attending "finishing schools". Today, nearly anyone with drive can attend some sort of college or university. Nearly everyone graduates from high school, and close to 40% of those graudates attend some institute of higher learning.


japan has a long tradition of respecting education...

By 1603 Japan had been reunified by the Tokugawa regime (1600- 1867), and by 1640 foreigners had been ordered out of Japan, Christianity banned, and virtually all foreign contact prohibited. The nation then entered a period of isolation and relative domestic tranquillity, which was to last 200 years. When the Tokugawa period began, few common people in Japan could read or write. By the period's end, learning had become widespread. Tokugawa education left a valuable legacy: an increasingly literate populace, a meritocratic ideology, and an emphasis on discipline and competent performance. Under subsequent Meiji leadership, this foundation would facilitate Japan's rapid transition from feudal country to modern nation (see Tokugawa Period, 1600-1867 , ch. 1).

...

After 1868 new leadership set Japan on a rapid course of modernization. Realizing from the outset that education was fundamental to nation building and modernization, the Meiji leaders established a public education system to help Japan catch up with the West. Missions were sent abroad to study the education systems of leading Western countries. These missions and other observers returned with the ideas of decentralization, local school boards, and teacher autonomy. Such ideas and ambitious initial plans, however, proved very difficult to carry out. After some trial and error, a new national education system emerged. As an indication of its success, elementary school enrollments climbed from about 40 or 50 percent of the school-age population in the 1870s to more than 90 percent by 1900.

...

In the early twentieth century, education at the primary level was egalitarian and virtually universal, but at higher levels it was multitracked, highly selective, and elitist. College education was largely limited to the few national universities, where German influences were strong. Three of the imperial universities admitted women, and there were a number of women's colleges, some quite prestigious, but women had relatively few opportunities to enter higher education. During this period, a number of universities were founded by Christian missionaries, who also took an active role in expanding educational opportunities for women, particularly at the secondary level.

source...
http://memory.loc.gov/frd/cs/jptoc.html

sure today their lot is even better then it was but the japanese have a long history of embracing education and they were not a fedual, primitive nation then.


6) Today's Japanese society is no longer a society that worships violence.
Did they worship it during wwII? I haven't read anything that would make me believe that other than some extremeist in the military.

Violence was an accepted part of life in the pre-WWII days, and few Japanese would have worried about the moral and ethical ramifications of killing foreigners to win a victory for the Emperor-god. Today's Japanese are not taught that violence solves problems, as seems to be the theme of too many American films and TV shows, and even the current American foreign policy.

well, that could be said for any countries people at any time. sure our emperors/kings/god/homeland may go by different names but we all sacrifice for them even today.

besides you said WORSHIP. the japanese people did NOT worship violence... sacrifice MAYBE but not violence.

peace