ALERT: Will post Help/Meta thread this evening. OccuDC GA is today 4 PM Super Bowl Sunday

[Leopolds Ghost]

As requested...

The blocking objection posted on Mic Thread #1 was not explained and we haven't clarified rules on blocking objections (except to say we probably won't be using them) or whether anonymous blocking objections have to be explained, but the text of the vote is a request that said person's concerns must be addressed, and no one provided any further info.

If anyone wishes to specify objections that didn't get addressed with us rushing around :-) especially Zorra since she shared some of Ohio Joe's concerns, please PM me or post on Mic Check Thread #2. I'll look at it again tonight before posting the callout on Help/Meta.

While I'll post it on Help/Meta tonight, I figure not much activity on the thread will take place until tomorrow anyway because of the game.

Although this may be the most important GA ever for DC folks, they had to move it up too for the game.

No idea what's happening in Freedom Plaza (~ODC)

The Smithsonian has apparently requested the TENT OF DREAMS and the Anonymask on General MacPherson's head.


"THE PARTY LEVELS -- THEY'RE OVER 20%!!!!"

[ellisonz]

1. I wouldn't over-estimate...

...the appeal of this game or under-estimate the average DUers lack of care for football. :shrug:

[ellisonz]

2. Just to clarify...

The plan is to request it be placed under "Activism" alongside these groups ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1007 ):

Activist Headquarters
Organize and meet your fellow DU activists!

Economic Activism and Progressive Living
End corporate control of our government and media though targeted product and service boycotts and the redirection of our personal finances.

Peacemaking and Community
A place for people to gather and discuss peace as a guiding principle in our lives, in our communities, in our nation, and in our world.

Propaganda Debunking
Discredit and or refute right-wing propaganda disseminated via e-mail, newspaper, 527 organizations, and broadcast media.

Sibel Edmonds and Other Whistleblowers
Become more informed and also active in supporting whistleblowers in their quests to be heard.

Socialist Progressives
Link Socialist ideas and suggestions for political change to a Progressive framework.

Requesting to be placed in this topic forum is that it is at the top of the list, is non-partisan, and shares interests with many of these groups.

SOP: A place for Occupy Wall Street members and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street, share information, and form a broad-based collaborative community. This is a forum for supporters of the 99%. While dissent is allowed because there are many different groups that oppose rule by the 1%, anti-Occupy Wall Street rhetoric belongs in other forums.

Sound good? We'll save the rest of the proposal for standards of conduct and procedure for once the group is formed.

:thumbsup:

[Leopolds Ghost]

5. Last minute, I just noticed:

"for Occupy Wall Street members and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street,"

Should we just say "for Occupy members and supporters to promote the values of
Occupy Wall Street" in case someone thinks it's only for NY (#OWS)?

Or is that understood?

Lifeboat clause

"share information, and form a broad-based collaborative community"

Just a last-minute thought (this might actually be more my than KoKo's concern)

we could add "and form a broad-based collaborative community where DUers can check in."

We don't have to specify that this is intended to serve as a welcome message for persons who
drifted away from the new site, as well as an invite for persons who only post on GD (#3)
so they don't assume that the Occupy group is just a place to post topic-related flyers with
no discussion, like a lot of inactive groups-- that's actually where it being a "lifeboat" comes in.

As others noted, it would be impolitic to actually say it, although the sentiment is fine,
since the persons who "stuck it out" are the ones who might object.

But I don't think anyone would have anything to object to in the above language.

It might help set the tone for the group :-)

[ellisonz]

6. Hmm...

1. We could rephrase to something generic like "the Occupy movement" - but given that all the other Occupy's are kinda derivative of Occupy Wall Street I don't think there will be any confusion that it covers all the Occupations.

2. It's kinda long already - remember this has to fit as a sub-header. I think we can accomplish that through a pinned check in thread. The nature of a group itself connotes that DU members will participate.

The key thing for drawing members in is activity and promotion. I don't think an Occupy group will have the problem of potentially going dead for some time. The key things are going to be first getting it done and secondly getting hosting organized. After that, I'm confident that there are enough Occupy posters that it will be bumping. :shrug:

[Leopolds Ghost]

8. My thoughts in response

1. Well, except for October2011 in Freedom Plaza which just got raided. That was being planned since last April and OWS, An? and other groups teed off of their scheduled day of action for the start of Occupy Everywhere (OccupyTogether) which is the national movement. So it might be worth clarifying, given that DC is now depending on the March mall mobilization to survive and has gotten backbiting from certain OWS folks.

Though I don't think it's necessary to say "the Occupy movement" when "Occupy" will do. I have no problem with the following phrase "the values of Occupy Wall Street".

This really is a concern because there are people (especially in NY) who may associate Occupy with OWS-NY only.

Also I just realized that like a nonprofit, Occupy has no members so we could say --

"A place for Occupy participants and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street"

(instead of "Occupy Wall Street members and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street")

Does anyone like that wording?

2. A pinned check-in thread may or may not be necessary, if there is one I'm not against it, but... actually that kind of reinforces my argument for simply adding where DUers can check in. Personally, I really want something in the SoP that can be interpreted as a welcoming signal for persons on other forums, especially GD3 and DU2 (without specifying other forums! i'm talking DUers here) so that it's understood that it's not just a subforum for persons who are members of a specific DU3 group where everyone else is only entitled to lurk (a la "the so and so group" or "the such and such pro-occupy committee"). I.e. not a hugbox.

[Leopolds Ghost]

3. OK, I will post it tomorrow morning. It's too late tonight, sorry for the delay

I had less time today than I do tomorrow, and I fell asleep.

And I gotta contact folks here to let them know the thread is posted, and it's late.

Eh, it was alright. I watched the second half... the halftime show was... um... interesting...



Me personally, I don't like how corporate everything having to do with the NFL has gotten though.

[Leopolds Ghost]

4. Unless anyone's here tonight. If persons that posted on the mic check thread are still up

Then I could post it tonight but I don't want to be the only person from the original thread until tomorrow morning on Help/Meta :-)

[ellisonz]

7. Tomorrow will be fine!

Have a good one. I will be around probably after 630 or so PST.

:yoiks:

[Leopolds Ghost]

9. 6:30 PM? I'm supposed to PM you when the thread goes up.

That'd be 9:30 PM on the East Coast, although I know lots of DUers will still be around.

We could start the thread tomorrow night, then,

if at least three people here are around after 9 PM...

If so I'll PM Zorra now, since she's out of town.

I made some correction to my suggested edits, (?) see reply above.

[ellisonz]

10. No worries.

Post whenever is convenient. It's probably better if I don't initially pop in the thread given some of the stalkers I seem to have acquired over the last month or so. Maybe PM NYC SKP too. Also, I'd just as soon as probably ignore anyone trying to derail the thread. Key thing is making clear how wide the demand for this group is among DUers.

I just think a "place to check-in" is a little redundant and clunky. :shrug:

Aloha.

[NYC_SKP]

11. Kick.

Will look for updates and PMs and take appropriate steps.

Thanks again for taking a lead on this.

:thumbsup:

[Leopolds Ghost]

12. OK, I'll post around 6:30 Monday evening.

Dunno if Zorra can be around so I'll PM her now.

[Leopolds Ghost]

13. Sorry for the delay, this is a nightmare - perhaps I should post tomorrow morn. How about this text?

SOP: A place for Occupy participants and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street, share information, promote interaction and dialogue on other existing forums, and form a broad-based collaborative community. This is a forum for supporters of the 99%. While dissent is allowed because there are many different groups that oppose rule by the 1%, anti-Occupy Wall Street rhetoric belongs in other forums.

If that's no good then I'll remove the second bit :-( This is probably the last chance to insert language of that sort though.

I'm actually thinking this new wording (italic) meets the two concerns I have missing from the current text of the SoP:

* provides a lifeboat clause

* specifies that it is not to take the place of Occupy discussion on GD etc.

[ellisonz]

14. I feel you...

...but admin isn't going to like "on other existing forums" and it will likely derail discussion. People are going to read things into it that you don't mean. :shrug:

I would make sure to specify that the request is for the "Activism" forum.

I don't think anyone will presume that it is to take the place of Occupy discussion in GD. The hosting of the main forums is really relaxed compared to the groups. The GD hosts are reading "Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU" - very broadly. Occupy will continue to be within the Forum Statement of Purpose.

I think the goal here is to create a positive place for discussion of Occupy and that in itself will serve the purposes you are worried about in terms of providing a lifeboat and attracting back some of those who have left. :shrug:

Tomorrow might be better - today was the first day of the Valentines Hearts and there was a Middle East and North Africa Group proposed.

:yoiks:

[Leopolds Ghost]

15. Yeah, I already changed the proposed language I suggested after PM'ing you.

SOP: A place for Occupy participants and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street, share information, promote interaction and dialogue among DUers on related forums, and form a broad-based collaborative community. This is a forum for supporters of the 99%. While dissent is allowed because there are many different groups that oppose rule by the 1%, anti-Occupy Wall Street rhetoric belongs in other forums.

I don't see how "promote interaction and dialogue among DUers on related forums" would raise any objection, since if anything it fits more into the "not take the place of discussion elsewhere" theme, but only secondarily the implication that it is a lifeboat, i.e. a welcoming drop-in center for DUers from existing DU forums. Which is not much different from calling it a safe haven, much stronger language that admins actively approve of. If we called it a safe haven then the implication would definitely be that it was a spot for people from DU2 who don't feel welcome elsewhere, but we decided not to go that far due to administrative baggage. With the above wording, I don't think there's any sort of hook that one could hang a complaint on... Is anyone sympathetic to my concern here?

Note that "related" forums is more precise and implies the GD and Activism forums principally, others only secondarily (local forums -- if they aren't dead -- DU2 etc.) and specifies DUers, i.e. contributing members.

[ellisonz]

16. How about...

SOP: A place for Occupy participants and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street, share information, and promote constructive interaction among members of the DU community This is a forum for supporters of the 99%. While dissent is allowed because there are many different groups that oppose rule by the 1%, anti-Occupy Wall Street rhetoric belongs in other forums.

Incorporates the lifeboat idea by working the positive life-boat angle without the supposedly damaging reference to "related forums" that will just tick off admin. I'm honestly not sure that many of those who have left would want to return under any circumstances. I think the second sentence is clunky enough that the first ought to be clear cut. I say go for it. Every day there are nasty threads in GD that just drive away good posters. If a group like this can be a life boat, it will provide an organized place from which DUers can organize themselves to Occupy and lobby online.

The thread basically looks like this:

"Group Proposal: Occupy Wall Street" - (Trust me this won't confuse or diminish any other Occupation)

I propose an Occupy Wall Street Group to be placed in the "Activism" topic forum with the following Statement of Purpose:

A place for Occupy participants and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street, share information, and promote constructive interaction among members of the DU community. This is a forum for supporters of the 99%. While dissent is allowed because there are many different groups that oppose rule by the 1%, anti-Occupy Wall Street rhetoric belongs in other forums.

This group would be self-governing and adhere to the principles of a General Assembly as close as possible while providing a place for Occupy supporters to organize for Occupation and other efforts in support of the Occupy Movement. This group would not preclude discussion of Occupy Wall Street in other forums. Upon recieving 10 posts in support of this proposal this thread will be submitted to the DU administration for approval.

[Leopolds Ghost]

17. I prefer the term "Occupy Underground" since that fits in with Cronus' banner.

I also know from personal experience that some people associate Occupy Wall Street with New York only and have even written articles criticizing the other Occupy's as taking away from the focus on Wall Street. Admittedly said people are dicks, but I think Occupy is studiously broad.

I posted a new thread before I saw your reply. This thread is out of date (due to inaccurate info in the OP -- Help/Meta thread won't be posted till tomorrow morning.)

promote constructive interaction is a nice alternative, let me repost your reply in the new thread.

No problems with the rest, personally. I'm more worried about lack of input from other DUers but I think they're all metaphorically looking at their watches.

[ellisonz]

18. Fair enough. Occupy Underground it is.

I think there will be a boatload of input coming our way soon enough. I think the key thing is that we want this to be as close to a General Assembly as possible given the hosting structure. In fact, I'm thinking maybe modifying the SOP to express that exact sentiment that this will be a General Assembly is a good point of clarity.