I do not like the new DU3...Am I alone?

[SkyDaddy7]

I don't mind change but from what I have seen of DU3 I HONESTLY do not like especially compared to what we already have! DU as it is right now is the BEST forum format I have EVER been on...I am not just saying that.

I just wonder how many people approve just because it is DU? When there are discussions about it people say they like it but no one can say how it is "better" overall than what we already have...Especially the Home page! I do like some of the posting improvements but that could have been done without a complete overhaul, right?

...Am I alone?

[NeedleCast]

1. Yes

[SkyDaddy7]

11. Thanks for the ridiculous reply!

[RevStPatrick]

46. No

I don't particularly like it either, in the little bit that I've played around with it.
But, I figure I'll get used to it...

[RobinA]

308. This Is Where

I am. I looked at it, it seems like a bunch of rules for stuff. I don't get the "no opinion and analysis" thing, I mean, what else is there on a forum? I'll try it for awhile when I have to. If I don't like it I'll move on, if I do I'll stick around.

Generally I prefer fewer rules rather than more, but i'm a middle-aged hippie and I realize many people today like things more predictable and homogenized. Most people on DU are probably younger than I am at this point. We'll see how it works out.

[pokerfan]

358. Why fix what isn't broken?

That's my take.

[Dennis Donovan]

74. DU2 looks essentially the same as DU1 - both look like 1999...

DU3 feels modern. I like it much more than DU 1 & 2

[TroglodyteScholar]

94. Also, DU3 handles small screens (phone, tablet) quite well, whereas DU2 sucks for mobile... n/t

[RegieRocker]

101. I have a EVO and have no probs with DU 2

[TroglodyteScholar]

105. I have a Droid 2 and I don't have any problems either...

...I just have to zoom more than I'd like. Having a mobile-friendly site will eliminate that.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

103. I have no trouble at all with the current DU on my iPad

I can't think of any issue there's ever been with it.

[quakerboy]

233. I never had any trouble

using it on an iphone.

[SkyDaddy7]

260. No, iPhone & iPad work very well on the current DU. nt.

[Zanzoobar]

111. Newsmax

A clone from the old days.

[spanone]

2. waaaay too soon to judge.

[LiberalFighter]

52. I agree.

I initially don't like it but I don't have enough play with it and won't until it is activated completely.

There was something about being able to use it in "Classic" mode which is would be similar to what is in DU2.

So there apparently the option of having the old feel available if not happy enough with the new look.

[tblue37]

313. That would help. I think. I really don't care for the new interface. nt

[graywarrior]

3. Haven't ventured into it yet, so can't really say.

[madmax]

225. Nor have I, I just peeked and felt uneasy. lol n/t

[graywarrior]

328. I did it. Not warm and fuzzy, but not bad either.

[HappyMe]

4. I like it just fine.

:-)

[gateley]

5. I agree with spanone - too soon to tell. I just went to

check it out but didn't hang out very long. I'm very comfortable here (obviously) but we may grow to love DU3, too. There ARE some cute new smilies! :7

[me b zola]

6. There is one aspect that i like better

And that is the tabs to like on fb and link to twitter. Other than that, I really like the old DU better. I really like our homepage as it is where we can get a great overview of whats going on at a glance.

[SkyDaddy7]

9. I totally agree!

It looks like we will have jump all around to get the same info you can get at a glance now. I sure hope "it is too early to tell" but I think a lot can be seen now!

Like I said before I wonder how many people would approve of anything that DU does...It sure seems there is very little objection in public anyway of anything that DU does. Not to say I don't like DU, I LOVE DU, that is why I feel so uneasy about the massive changes that are coming...And WHY? No one has said WHY EVERYTHING must change other than for the sake of change?

[snagglepuss]

107. "WHY EVERYTHING must change other than for the sake of change? "

BINGO. I have not come across any other message board that looks like DU, but DU3 look very similar to other sites. Why radically change something that has been so successful? It is impossible for me to believe that DU's unique look isn't a big reason for it's popularity. In 2002 when I signed up with a different handle, I had very little experience surfing the net and avoided any discussion board because it was impossible to understand how the threads worked but within minutes of finding DU, I knew how to navigate the site.

My other complaint is changing GD to Soapbox and editorials to "good reads". Those are right up there with McCafe.

[SkyDaddy7]

119. I could not agree more!! nt.

[KittyWampus]

145. Reminds me of Ebay. Every 6 months they rejigger it and each time it sucks more.

[RobinA]

310. Facebook

This is how I feel about Facebook. I hate it more each time it changes and I never liked it much to begin with.

[appal_jack]

250. +1

Agree on all points snagglepuss. Thanks for articulating the shortcomings of the DU3 design at present. I hope that the admins take these critiques seriously.

I don't post much, but do try to donate enough to keep up a star. More importantly, I use DU as my primary gateway to all news, political discussions, and even some amusement. I can't see myself continuing to do so with both the new finance model, the new layout, and the new discussion forum names/divisions. All of these seem less friendly, and I am thinking that they will each serve to erode the wonderful collective progressive mind that DU presently is.

What I'd prefer is a more horizontal donor model (<~$30 per year for star/ad-free status - after all there are excellent print magazines that are able to function at this subscription level) and a retention of all that is presently working well with DU. I could suggest a few additions & teaks, but what really matters to me is keeping DU friendly, accessible, and humming with collective activity.

-app

[defendandprotect]

288. Agree - what were the goals of DU3 -- and limiting freedom to post anything in GD is bad idea -- !!

Greatest Page and General Discussion are the two most important topics --

Everyone read info on the net -- this is simply a way to check what you may

have missed during the day --

And, where other posters can bring important subjects and ideas to your attention!!

Limiting that flexibility and freedom to post is a big negative imo!!

[DainBramaged]

378. Soapbox is right up there with, if it isn't sterile shit, it ain't posted here...

Why do we have to be like the rest of the internet?

[quakerboy]

238. Thats not entirely true

The admin have made it clear that one of their goals in DU3 was to reduce the demands of moderating, as the site has gotten quite large in content volume.

I don't know enough to know if this could be done under their current software, but it seems clearly implied that this is one of the prime reasons for this change. Possibly also issues with computer load, and newer/different software making that easier?

That said, So far I am not really fan of DU3. Most things seem about the same, so no changes that make me want to take up pitchfork and flame(aside from the new subscription plan, which really kinda burns my biscuits). I do like the new option of a side bar for easy browsing of groups, though in my opinion that still needs some work to make it easier to use.

Also, as to the "too early to tell" argument being made by some, the problem with that is that by the time its not too early to tell, its fait acompli, Done deal, signed sealed delivered, nothing to be done about it other than to power forward and make the best of things.

[defendandprotect]

289. Not exactly -- the "HOSTS" will have the power to delete -- Juries will merely HIDE messages ...!!

Which you can also decide to "see" if you wish --

Simply put -- MODS are now HOSTS with the same power to "delete" and the same old

problems -- perhaps even more so???

I think what administration has to fight most strongly is the desire to CONTROL the

website to such a degree that it puts tools of DOMINATION in hands of "Hosts" -- !!


Granted these issues are time consuming for the administration -- but we need to be

careful about celebrating a new website which may actuall suppress information and

flexibility and freedom to post ideas and opinions by EVERY member!!

[truedelphi]

306. The more I am understanding about the jury system and all that

So now our remarks are on trial. Some democracy, some "underground."

[tblue37]

319. I have found the "change for change's sake" aspect of computer interfaces to be

a hyperactive pain in the neck. The email programs change, the Blackboard program we use to post stuff for our students changes, and usually the changes don't add anything to the experience except a lot of time one must spend learning one's way around the new stuff.

When a tool works very well for me, I do not want to have to spend time learning how to use a revamped version unless it really and truly offers something the older version did not offer, and in most cases, I do not find that new versions add much.

I think the youngsters are a bit hyperactive with their technology upgrades, and I do hope I will be able to use a classic DU version that will keep my experience of it similar to what it has been.

before coming to DU, I was a regular on The Smirking Chimp, but when he revamped the interface and added all sorts of complicated new things, so that I couldn't figure out how to get back to the point in a message thread I had been following--or even to the thread itself, I just gave up and made DU my new political/news home. I also used to adore the handsome look of the old Smirking Chimp homepage, but now it is just as common (and ugly) as most others.

I never could get used to navigating and using The Daily Kos, but DU has always seemed pretty much perfect to me. I can always find what I want quickly and easily, and there is no learning curve.

One thing I love about DU is the "Greatest" page, ebcause I can scan it quickly for stuff if I have just a few free moments before rushing off somewhere, but there seems to be no "greatest" page for the new site, and I will really miss that.

If the new version is significantly less convenient for me to use that it is for me to use now, I might have to abandon DU as I abandoned smirkingchimp.com, but I will be very, very sad if that happens.

I will say, though, that smirkingchimp.com also was problematic in the sense that its owner went all autocratic on us all of a sudden, and then ended up banning some of the most enjoyably prolific posters (and financial contributors) for questioning some of his decisions, and that had something to do with my deciding to leave. Perhaps if he had been more flexible and less quick to ban some of my favorite long-term posters/contributors (Shadowthief comes to mind--he was always so informative!) I would not have abandoned it so quickly over the changes, though the changes really did make it much harder to use the site.

The administrators here at DU are much more willing to negotiate with members, so that certainly works in DU's favor.

I hope I can still use DU comfortably after the change. I have been here since June of 2008, directed here from smirkingchimp.com by a link to a post by H2O Man, who continues to be one of my favorite reads here on DU.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

51. I agree, prefer the homepage as is.

[Felinity]

199. The Homepage on DU WAS My go to browser homepage

The current soon-to-be SNAFU'ed Home Page on DU is--er, that is soon-to-be WAS one of the best things on the Internet. It enabled the visitor to get a real overview of what's going on. I loved the Greatest, Latest, Videos, Journals and featured story at the top. From there, depending on time available and my current interest, I could easily dig in where I liked. It was not a hideous mess like at Huff Post, or a conundrum like Daily Kos.

Hear me whistling in the wind:

How about keeping the best home page on the web for what's going on in the world (of relevance to Us folks who have been using it as their daily first read). If it doesn't work well on iPhones and other mobile devices, then don't go there, start with "soapbox" or whatever.

OK and one more thing. "Soapbox" sounds like re-branding, very cutesy. Do we have to go there?

Plea for sympathy: Look, they just closed the friendly little natural foods store that I've been shopping at for 20 years. It's a big loss. I have to change my shopping habits. I'm already suffering. I want my HOME PAGE like it was.

GMAFB:cry: :cry: :cry:

[proReality]

282. I agree

The Home Page is great as it is and I really hate to see it change, especially if I have to wander through a billion buttons to find what I'm looking for.

[defendandprotect]

291. JOURNALS were also prominent on Home page -- making easy to review --

Also "Soapbox" for General Discussion is lame --

I'd stick with General Discussion --


and, perhaps most telling is the change from CONSPIRACY to ROFL "Creative Speculation" -- !!

Right -- "conspiracy-free America" -- funny!!

[truedelphi]

307. Those who reframe the language control the mind...

Well, I guess I'll get a new user name and hang out in the lounge.

Or is that now the "WaitingRoom."??

[defendandprotect]

336. There is a bit of Orwell/NEWSPEAK in the air -- !!

Think Sky Daddy did a huge service here in this thread --

First, I think DU3 is quite a poorly needed distraction given the dire

condition of the nation --


Second, you can see everyone was a bit "shy" of bringing up things they think

are problems -- but this is the every time to be doing that before DU3 is put in place.


Third, why is this suddenly an opportunity to LIMIT discussion and debate, to LIMIT

flexibility and freedom to post on any subject in GD?

[snagglepuss]

346. Hyper control of GD is downright mystifying. If someone is put off by a thread

simply hide it.

[fishwax]

379. I almost never visit the home page except by accident--but I do use the "Latest Threads" page as my

browser homepage. I've never found DU's current home page to be visually appealing or as easy to navigate from as the "Discuss" page, but that's me. Different strokes.

"Plea for sympathy: Look, they just closed the friendly little natural foods store that I've been shopping at for 20 years. It's a big loss. I have to change my shopping habits. I'm already suffering. I want my HOME PAGE like it was."

Oh that sucks. I've been there. :hug:

[Fearless]

251. +1000!

[sharp_stick]

7. It'll take some getting used to

but I like the transparency features I've seen and the "my posts" tab with drop downs to check replies is really nice.

[SkyDaddy7]

14. Yes, I agree there are some cool changes...

but why change everything especially the home page where we will have to do some digging to find what we get now at a glance.

[sharp_stick]

23. It looks like the new site was built from the

ground up, not based on this version of DU, so they were able to make any changes they wanted right from the beginning.

I spend most of my time on the latest page so it's not hard to find my way around DU3. There will be a learning curve though, and I'm sure I'll botch a few posts/replies before I get even close to figuring it out.

[defendandprotect]

275. Latest Page is good for a few seconds browsing, but basically if you even

spend a few seconds with Yahoo news or Google or any other news source

during the day, you are pretty familiar with "Latest" --

it only serves as an additional check as to whether you've missed something.


General imo is really the most important --

and GREATEST -- because they are the best ways to see if you missed anything.

And to have another poster stop you and say -- "Hey, did you think about this?"

or "Hey, have you noticed that ... ?" Whatever --


I don't see that anyone relies solely on DU for news --

for me, it's always just another way to see what's going on.

[immoderate]

370. The GREATEST is still there, or will be.

The Latest Threads tab has some filter buttons including "most recs." This is like the Greatest list. What's more there are some other criteria buttons that allow you to control the time limit, and which forums you want to filter. Skinner said that we would be able to reset the defaults.

So, a Latest Threads setting for "political" threads for the last 2 days would be the same as looking at Greatest now. But it is a lot more flexible.

As for the Home page, I think that is temporary, for this beta. I really don't think we've seen the Home page yet. And remember, that's only one page, and it's format is relatively easy to adapt to our needs.

I also like the indented replies in threads. And I have never been a fan of unrec. :)

I would like some WYSIWYG editing so you don't need to type in HTML tags.

Remains to be seen how well the jury system works, and whether there are truly restrictions on free speech as some claim. I like to withhold judgement.

--imm

[tblue37]

323. Yes, yes, yes--it is the "at a glance" aspect that I love most about DU, and that is lost

in the new design.

[snagglepuss]

347. Exactly. Everything is so well laid out that a relatively massive amount of info can be scanned

quickly.

[hlthe2b]

8. I really like what we have now, but I also remember not liking the current version...

as much as the old, when it first premiered. I think that is just the name of the game... TPM just changed their interface as well and I really really miss the soothing tan background of the old site... Probably just need to get used to it...:shrug:

[Zorra]

10. I need a long test drive before I can say. nt

[jannyk]

12. Not alone, no.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

13. Where is the Greatest in DU3? That's where I go for top news! n/t

[The Straight Story]

18. here: (called most rec'd)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/du3/?com=latest_threads&mode=latest&sort1=recs

[SkyDaddy7]

25. EXACTLY! You have to navigate away...

from the Home page to see it...The same for videos. When all that info was right there in your face upon logging on. Just seems cumbersome to me.

[tblue37]

327. But how do you find it? I can't locate the "Most Recommended"

page at all, without that direct link the other poster provided.

[SkyDaddy7]

360. I believe there are a row of buttons at the top

That give you a few chooses like "Most Rec" "Most Replies or something like that" & maybe another choice or two.

I will have to go back & look to see for sure.

[dipsydoodle]

30. A lot of recs are quite tragic

its easy to see when subject rather than content has been rec'd - the rec's pile up faster than anyone could possibly have read the content.

[inna]

63. wow, i think the old DU is so much prettier, too

:(

[ProfessionalLeftist]

304. Thank you. Great! n/t

[SkyDaddy7]

19. I LOVE the entire current Home Page!

In the DU3 that we can see now the Greatest Threads are gone & everything else is scattered around so you would have to do some serious digging to get the same info you get a a glance now.

I love the ability to get a feel of what is going on as soon as I get to the site...And the Home page is perfect for that as it is. IMHO.

[KoKo]

80. DU's old site has a "Hum"...from what I saw of the new one...it's disjointed.

Separates people into special interests and changes "General Discussion" into something called "The Soap Box."

It's still not finished so it's probably too early to judge. But, it's definitely DIFFERENT.

[RegieRocker]

104. Exactly. Update you clothes but don't change your identity.

[suffragette]

123. Feels overly compartmentalized to me

Not sure if that's just an adjustment phase or will become an ongoing feeling.

[tblue37]

324. Self-delete: accidental dupe. nt

[tblue37]

325. SkyDaddy7, every descriptor you use captures my reasons for

disliking the new version. "Scattered" captures the feeling I got, too. Instead of having everything right where I can spot what I want at a glance, I will have to go a-huntin'--and I seldom have more than a few free moments to spend, so that will be a problem for me.

[quinnox]

15. There have been others who already said they don't like it

in other threads, so there are people who don't like the DU3.

I'm definitely one of them, in another thread a poll showed the majority would be posting less on DU3, not more. Keep in mind many people won't say outright they don't like it because of fear of offending someone.

One of the biggest mistakes in my view of DU3 is the edit history feature, where you no longer have any privacy over your posts. Not only is there a big old ugly red text at the top of your post saying exactly when you edited it, but people can go back and see exactly what you changed.

The red lettered edit notification should be in small letters and on the bottom, if it needs to be there at all. And there should be no way for people to see what you edited either.

You better be perfect the first time you post and not make any spelling mistakes or grammar mistakes and also decide you don't want to change anything later with your post in the DU3!

This "feature" alone will make me post very infrequently at DU3.

[SkyDaddy7]

21. Thank-you very much for your HONESTY.

Yes, I think you are correct. But I also know Skinner & the others who work very hard to keep the BEST forum on the web up & running want us to be honest with them. The last thing they want is for everyone to say "Yeah, it is AWESOME!" then 6 months from now the place seems abandoned.

[quinnox]

26. no problem, this is a good thread

you made, and you are right, it is of no value to hear a bunch of empty praise of DU3 instead of constructive criticism.

[KoKo]

81. I don't care about folks seeing my typo's or mis-spellings.. Why should anyone care?

They aren't going to have "spell check" up and running for awhile (according to Skinner) so all of us will be in the same boat unless we are "perfect typest/keyboarders." There are other things that bothered me more. But, it's still new. They have room to tweak.

[Whisp]

198. I think this is why the new edit feature is what it is...

One can say something inflammatory to bait another poster, the other poster retailiates with something equally flameoid, original poster edits and deletes the 'bait', the responder gets the flack if he/she don't keep a close eye on their posts to edit as well to remove the rule breaking.

This way, with edits showing, you can't do that, so there be a lot less cat and mouse playtime for some folks.

[Blue_In_AK]

84. I certainly agree with that.

Sometimes I get to typing a little too fast or I can't see exactly what I've typed (cataracts), and it's a little embarrassing for people to see that I've edited my typos three or four times in a one-line post. I think that feature is totally unnecessary and intrusive to one's privacy.

[Frank Cannon]

99% of the time, I edit posts due to embarrassing typos/misspellings

I have particular trouble with the whole "their/there/they're" thing. My fingers seem to type faster than my brain can compose.

I agree that this feature is unnecessary and intrusive. It's also incredibly wasteful of system resources, which makes me wonder why it was even included.

[laundry_queen]

371. I agree.

This will definitely make me post less. I edit for dumb things all the time, like I really want everyone to see every f'ing spelling or grammatical error.

[snagglepuss]

110. I agree completely. As for the edits being for all to see is really troubling.

I have several times written angry replies, then immediately went back and removed words written in haste. I can understand that if a post has already got replies then it would be fair to show what has been altered but there should be a window where edits aren't posted.

[in_cog_ni_to]

201. Holy cow! I didn't know that about the new "edit" feature! Now, what is the point of that?

This is BIG BROTHER on DU! People will now see who doesn't like them. They will see members who have blocked them. They will see members who won't allow them to PM them. Seriously...this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too creepy for me. Now people can see what you edit in a post? Why is there a need for people to see a corrected misspelled word? Or maybe a deleted word that was unnecessary. Or your run-on sentence needed a few periods and/or conjunctions in it...WHATEVER!!!! Why is there a NEED for that to be seen by the grammar police? PLEASE, someone explain this to me.

[defendandprotect]

259. Agree -- and why this odd emphasis on tracking editing changes -- ???

Rarely have I ever had the time to wonder how many typos someone had in their post --

I've gone back to make typing corrections on a post from time to time up to 10 times!

Is anyone really going to want to see that -- ? Why use the energy of the website to

track something like that?


Meanwhile, in maybe one in 50 posts, I've said something in a way I thought wasn't clear

or needed restating. Is it worthwhile to use the board's space/energy to track that?


I don't get it --

Seems a bit obsessed -- if not fanatical --

[CrispyQ]

16. I'll miss The Greatest.

Also, I think the look is sterile, but DU will always be the first place I come for news & views, regardless of version.

[Iggo]

29. I spoke too soon.

LOL.

[snagglepuss]

177. The Greatest page will be very different

Starroute's post on this thread explains the difference:


When I come to DU now, I always start with the Greatest, since it starts off with everything that's made the list since my previous visit. I don't have to scroll past stuff I saw previously, and I can get a pretty good idea of which threads are most recent and thus most likely to have up-to-date information and active discussion. That makes things very efficient.

But as nearly as I can tell, this new design sorts everything in order of number of recommendations -- which means there's no easy way to tell what's been added since your last visit, or to focus on recent news or items with currently active discussion as opposed to really popular threads from two days ago.

It does allow you to sort for threads started within the last 3 or last 12 hours or whatever -- but that's unhelpful enough to be a cause of throwing things against the nearest wall. Part of my problem with it is that I tend to check DU 2-3 times during the day, so 3 hours will include too little and 12 will include too much.

It also seems like filtering for "started within the last 3 hours" would leave out anything that was started 4 hours ago but only got the required number of recommendations in the last hour or two, so that threads which take a while to get noticed might be permanently invisible.

[defendandprotect]

261. How much space is being reserved for advertising -- ???? What's the ratio -- ???

[tridim]

17. I was excited about the thread judging thing, but after clicking 10 times to navigate to the thread

DU3 said my services weren't needed.

Oh and no "greatest" "latest" "My DU" buttons? Huh?

[SkyDaddy7]

22. It really seems as if the entire Home page we have now...

Will be done away with. YIKES!!

[NBachers]

214. When I sit down in the morning to have breakfast and visit DU, the Home Page is my default location

If I have to search around and open boxes and navigate here and there during my precious before-work see-what's-going-on-in-the-world-via-Democraticunderground, then the experience just won't be the same. It's about the maximum info impact in the short time I've got to see what's going on in the world.

With the current Home Page, I've got a comprehensive glimpse at what's going on. If that experience is fractured, fragged, and hidden away here and there, then there's no point in being here.

I can't read what I can't see.

[truedelphi]

354. Your point that "You

Can't read what you can't see," should be one statement that the Admins pay attention to.

[hunter]

20. It's easier to use on a variety of devices...

... iPhones, e-books, etc.

Which is EXCELLENT for politics and live reporting from the streets.

Desktop warriors like me will need to adapt.

I don't like change (not at all!) but I think this will be a great one.

[KansDem]

24. I hate to say this, but...

...it reminds me a little of...that other political website! :hide:

[TroglodyteScholar]

96. In what way could it possibly remind you of that?

Honestly, I want to know.

[Frank Cannon]

234. It does look like it.

Maybe you're viewing it on your state-of-the-art iPod or iPad or iPhone or some greater technology than the 2003-era desktop warrior I'm using, but it really does invoke FreeRepublic. It is very jumbled up and confusing.

[KansDem]

245. "...very jumbled up and confusing"

That site is "very jumbled up and confusing" in both the layout and the content!

[Frank Cannon]

256. LOL. DU3 does look better if you switch to "Classic" view in My Account.

I'm wondering if that shouldn't be the default view.

Overall, I've got to say I'm pretty underwhelmed. I don't care for the new segregation of discussion topics, the "Soapbox", the juries, and all of that stuff. Seems like the developers went overboard to try to keep certain people from having their precious toes stepped on if someone else introduced a challenging topic or had an opinion that differed from their own. To all of those people, I have always said:

[MineralMan]

27. You're never alone. However, it's pretty hard to judge something

like DU3 in just a few hours. I'd wait and see how it works for you once you've used it for a month or two. I think it'll grow on you.

[Scuba]

28. Change comes harder for some than others. n/t

[Evasporque]

31. I remember my first forum too...

The laughter, the pointing, the clicking...but alas...as times change, so does software...and now I have fond memories to cherish.

[inna]

32. i wish it was possible to opt out of DU3 and keep the DU experience just the way it is

for those who like it just the way it is :shrug:


And no, clearly you're not alone. :hi:

[SkyDaddy7]

187. I know that would be really nice if those of us...

who LOVE the current format could remain using it.

I have checked out DU3 every time they make a post about it...And every time they do there is nothing but overwhelming praise & I have yet to see why? I honestly thought I was the only one who did not like it so I kept quiet but this last time I spent a lot of time looking at DU3 & decided to ask publicly if i was the only one...I am not & so I don't feel so bad. LOL!

Thanks for your reply...Some of the replies to me have been flat out rude!

:hi:

[pam4water]

254. +1

[trueblue2007]

33. well sorry to the powers that be .... I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER.

can we still come here??

[Pithlet]

34. Nope. n/t

[canetoad]

35. Obviously not, from the replies

However I absolutely love DU3. One of the best thought out internet applications I've ever seen.

[msongs]

36. if sanity was restored to "latest discussion" page the rest is irrelvant really. recipes? scores? no

thanks, just purge that and return general discussion page please.

[Robb]

37. I like some parts, worry about others.

In fairness, I absolutely hated DU2 when we rolled over. All icon-y and such, it struck me as silliness at first.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

38. You need to remember that this is JUST a preview.

There will be further refinements.

And of course, it does take some getting used to.

:shrug:

[truedelphi]

39. Since I can't get into the new DU3, I guess I can't say

How good or bad or indifferent an experience it is for me.

I have alerted the Admins about the situation and will wait to see what they have to say.

[Enthusiast]

248. Me too.

Have we done "something" wrong? Too anti-establishment?

[truedelphi]

257. I know in my case, I believe that

it is simply I always let my userid and password, stored on the computer, do the login entry stuff for me.

So if this new DU3 software is an improvement, I want to see it let me have the same easy entry as the old software did.

It may be that it's something they didn't consider, and they will adjust, or it may be that I will adjust.

And I can't say I am more radical than so many here, now that a whole new Occupy! crowd is on board.

[fishwax]

381. have you changed your password since January?

Skinner said in an ATA thread (I believe) that when they did the first beta testing for DU3 back in January they copied everyone's information over at that time, so at least while it's in the testing stage, everyone's log in for DU3 will be what their log in was this past January. (It also affects other things like post counts.)

When they open DU3 for real, though, they may reboot everything from your current password, I don't know.

[Motown_Johnny]

40. it is going to take some getting used to

but it isn't that bad

[TheKentuckian]

41. It isn't love at first sight but I can't say I strongly dislike it either

[Frank Cannon]

237. It will be like Star Wars: Episode 1.

Upon first viewing, you will try to convince yourself that you kind of like it, but eventually you will find yourself hating it with a passion.

[Ohio Joe]

42. But... But... They let me ban an Admin from my group

:rofl:

[Kingofalldems]

43. I like the MIR team concept

And I would love to serve on it....

[Ohio Joe]

44. I really like how the jury systems works

Having participated in it, I think people will really like it.

[Mimosa]

45. ??? Can't get in: a form pops up asking me to answer a 'security question'

At any time on D.U. I've never filled in anything with answer to security question.

Is anybody else having this problem?

*Ding Ding Ding*

I figured out I am supposed to provide my own security question and the answer!

[T S Justly]

47. I like the DU the way it is. Will I be alone...

When everybody goes to 3? :)

[SkyDaddy7]

190. I think whether we like it or not...

We are all going to DU3! LOL!

That is why I asked if I was alone in not liking DU3...I LOVE what we have now! Yes, there are some new features that are cool but doing away with the current Home page really takes away from what DU is...I can sign on & right away I get a good idea of what is going on...In DU3 I have to navigate all over in order to get the same info I can get at glance now.

Oh well...

:hi:

[T S Justly]

338. Ditto, Thanks. (nt)

[PotatoChip]

272. Wait... were you able to get in?

I wasn't and wondered why (see posts 227,229,and 230). DUer Iggo was kind enough to reply that you have to have signed up before a certain date, so I thought that was it, but you are newer then me.

Maybe they are ditching me after all? :shrug: :cry:

[T S Justly]

337. No, I couldn't get in, yet, either...

But, from reading others' comments, since we registered after 1/11/11, we'll be able to sign in in several days. :bounce:

[PotatoChip]

273. Whoops dupe

Sorry. :blush:

[starroute]

48. Is there any way to get the "Most Rec'd" chronologically?

When I come to DU now, I always start with the Greatest, since it starts off with everything that's made the list since my previous visit. I don't have to scroll past stuff I saw previously, and I can get a pretty good idea of which threads are most recent and thus most likely to have up-to-date information and active discussion. That makes things very efficient.

But as nearly as I can tell, this new design sorts everything in order of number of recommendations -- which means there's no easy way to tell what's been added since your last visit, or to focus on recent news or items with currently active discussion as opposed to really popular threads from two days ago.

It does allow you to sort for threads started within the last 3 or last 12 hours or whatever -- but that's unhelpful enough to be a cause of throwing things against the nearest wall. Part of my problem with it is that I tend to check DU 2-3 times during the day, so 3 hours will include too little and 12 will include too much.

It also seems like filtering for "started within the last 3 hours" would leave out anything that was started 4 hours ago but only got the required number of recommendations in the last hour or two, so that threads which take a while to get noticed might be permanently invisible.

[leeroysphitz]

49. The only thing I hate more than dull routine is sudden change. n/t

[TroglodyteScholar]

100. Sudden?

DU3 has been in the works for months if not more than a year, and there has already been one preview (or two?) before this one. What's sudden about that?

[Enthusiast]

252. Hey! Me too.

[Mimosa]

50. Those staggered boxes are clutter-y looking.

I suspect I'll find more stuff to not like.

I like streamlined, easy scrolling designs I can read and use quickly.

Has anybody else noticed how 'news media' type sites try to slow down and detain users? They use tricks like giving information page by page -like clicking slideshows- to expose users to more adverts.

[Better Believe It]

53. I hope that's not what the new homepage will look like. You have go digging for info.

I like all major things right on the front homepage where you can easily find what's happening in the progressive community, politics and discussions.

In other words, keep the current homepage!

[seabeyond]

yes. this is so easy and clean and clear.

easy for a quit perusal on what is up. very simple. not a lot of mess. the other is awfully busy and divided up. it doesnt seem like rules will be consistent and held to but at the whim of random people assigned to an alert.

i can see racism, homophobia (for the most part) dealt with but am sure sexism will be allowed to flourish.

kinda makes me sad. but will have to be a wait and see.

[Mojorabbit]

153. I think it is very cluttered

The listing of the groups on the left instead on the top makes the page terribly busy. I am finding it horribly distracting. All the other stuff does not worry me. I just cannot focus with everything crammed together.

[snagglepuss]

348. +1

[ellisonz]

54. It's way better with one switch. READ THIS POST

In My Account change Preferred format for regular web browsers from standard to classic.

[seabeyond]

55. my husband was looking for this when i was griping this afternoon, lol

i will go look. if i cant figure it out, he can. thanks.

[seabeyond]

56. much, much better. thank you. SKY... you gotta do this. nt

[ellisonz]

68. You're welcome! Makes it much more readable!

[Lars39]

58. Thanks for posting that!

:toast:

[seabeyond]

59. you, too, huh? lol. the other was just so hard to read. this is much easier. nt

[mwooldri]

186. It could be worse: Switching to the FreeRepublic's software.

Overall it is a change. Bigger than a Facebook change, but sometimes we need new stuff for the new decade. The present DU software isn't exactly the latest and greatest as of now.

I'm sure it'll grow on me.

Mark.

[Hatchling]

210. I get that the software needed to be updated.

But there's no reason the format and functionality of Du2 couldn't be programmed into DU3.

[defendandprotect]

277. .... and what happens ... ??? Will check it next time I go to DU3 --

[ebayfool]

383. Just did that - I notice it will be only for paying accounts.

I haven't run out yet (the subscriber star) so it works til then. But it didn't make enough of a difference to me. The new rates are gonna be too onerous to justify in my house, so it's either 'tough shit get used to it' or find a new home page after all these years. I came to DU from Daily Kos & stuck here because I hated the Kos interface so badly. Both have nuggets of wonderful substance, but when you have to dig through an interface that makes it ... let's just say unpleasant ... it tends to make the site unusable.

I've checked DU3 out a few times, & if the so called improvements are that hard to find (& I've yet to trip over any!) - well, then it's not an improvement. I will miss this place sorely after over 7 years. I'll still probably look in once in a while, but it won't be my home page nor my hangout like it has been all this time. Pity.

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. Here goes..I've been biting my tongue all day long....Nope, you're not alone....

Actually, I immensely dislike the DU3. I don't like the list of topics/forums on the left side of the page. It should all be at the top like is is now...out of sight, out of mind. It crowds the page way too much. Makes it much too busy. Way too much stuff on the page.

I DETEST the Facebook-Twitter-Google-and whatever-other-stupid-link that is on the OP post page. I detest those links wherever they are...not just on DU3. I really don't want things I say on DU to be posted all over Facebook (not that they would be, but they could be). I don't like Facebook and I don't use Facebook. I don't like Twitter and I don't use Twitter. Those links are obnoxious.

There is no more General Discussion forum. There's the Soapbox, but you are limited to what you can post there and have to go roaming around the site for the correct topic/forum to post in. I rarely leave GD. I visit the Greatest Page, Homepage and the Dungeon...on occasion, but that's it. GD is home. Now it's gone.

I don't like the new "Jury" they have decided to use now. I can just see this place during the election/Primary season (NOT necessarily THIS election cycle, but during a Democratic PRIMARY). Holy crap.

Obama supporters deleting every anti-Obama post and vice versa. There are DUers here who don't like certain posters and will delete posts for that reason alone. It happened all the time during the last 2 election cycles and that was with RANDOMLY SELECTED Mods! Now, letting people CHOOSE to be on the Jury is just asking for MORE INSIDIOUS problems, IMO. Any opinions they don't like will be GONE. If there's a whole fleet of certain supporters...who's to stop them from controlling the message? Think about that. I can think of about 8 people right now who all swarm threads at the same time and work in unison to counter posts they don't like. Now, have those 8 people coordinate being on that "Jury" in a specific forum and see what you end up with. They can easily coordinate 20 people to work a specific forum. Good luck with that! It's going to be a NIGHTMARE. I'm sure they've all already thought of that too!

I don't like the layout of the board. It's difficult to navigate. There's too many specific "topics" and "forums" where one is obligated to post in because there's no more GENERAL DISCUSSION to hang out in. YUK! Why on earth would you change the most perfect discussion board on the internet and the most POPULAR, BEST forum on that board? It makes no sense to me. As they say...If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Soapbox is NOT going to be the new GD. It's not anything like it, which must be the point? They want to rid themselves of GD?

It is what is is though, so I will more than likely limit my visits to the New and Not-So-Improved DU3. I know! No great loss...so save the insults.

I really feel bad saying this because I know how much work went into DU3 (years worth!), but it needs to be said. DU3 is not better. IMCPO and that's a shame. A REAL, REAL shame. :( I really do immensely dislike it and it's too late to do anything about it.

[Better Believe It]

60. It might really represent a huge step in turning DU into a dull DPB. The Democratic Party Board

A moderate somewhat liberal Democratic Party controlled board that will censor and delete opinions that don't conform to DNC, Democratic election campaign and White House talking points.

That would pretty much end the growth of, shrink and kill DU as a independent liberal/progressive discussion board. But, there are certainly some posters who would welcome that change we can't believe in.

[in_cog_ni_to]

62. Right.

That may be the goal, for all we know. I can certainly see that happening. Easily. The new "Jury" pool has me the most worried. Especially during a Primary season. That is not going to be good. So many scenarios of what can go on have been running through my head ever since I saw the site. Egads. It's a Nightmare in the making.

[seabeyond]

67. that bothers me the most, also. the jury draw

get the wrong draw and abuses that would be locked in the past are allowed to stand.

i think with certain issues, it wont be a problem, like racism. and most homophobia. but sexism.... no line there anymore. the only control on that was a strong line by the moderators.

[in_cog_ni_to]

78. Exactly.

That's been on my mind all day. If it can happen, it will and the Primary season will definitely be the worst. I can see 20 supporters of one candidate coordinating to be in one specific forum and all hell will break loose.

[joshcryer]

135. That is the case with all juries, and then there's jury nullification.

Whereby people allow behavior that they shouldn't.

[Hatchling]

152. You can blacklist up to 15 people from being on your jury.

That way know "frenimies" will not be allowed to judge your posts.

[seabeyond]

164. so, say you are especially known for sexist posts. be sure to blacklist the handful of women that

will call out the sexism. a person has even a greater chance of breaking du rules by gaining jury that will allow those posts.

that isnt sounding any better and assuring to me.

[Hatchling]

202. Exactly.

I don't like it.

[snagglepuss]

Is that list transparent? Will everyone know that snagglepuss has

Hatchling blacklisted? :evilgrin:

[snagglepuss]

349. Is that list transparent? Will everyone know that snagglepuss has

Hatchling blacklisted? :evilgrin:

[SkyDaddy7]

180. Although I totally agree with your point...

I fear the exact opposite...The Obama haters forcing us supporters to go elsewhere on the web to say something positive about the President. After all the greatest thread page is dominated by nothing but anti-Obama threads. Not to mention the polls that are posted are always in favor of the anti-Obama crowd. The numbers just are not there to support your fears.

I would NEVER simply vote to scrap a post just because I disagreed with it...Only when people get personal then I get upset because personal attacks are a trademark of the GOP & such behavior does nothing to advance debate.

But at least we agree that the current DU is by far better than DU3!

Talk to you later.

[in_cog_ni_to]

193. That works both way though.

As I said in my other post, Vice Versa. I have seen a group of Obama supporters swarm threads and work in unison to unrec and insult whomever had the nerve to say something truthful about Obama. The man is not even close to perfect and about as far to the right one can get without calling themselves a Republican. Now we'll have nothing but "I love Obama" posts being rec'ed to the home page. Not to mention posts being deleted and hidden by Obama supporters or anti-Obama people...depending on whether or not they agree with a post.

I don't believe for one minute that people will be HONEST and FAIR about who/what they delete/hide while playing Juror and Host. I was here for the last two election cycles. IT WAS NOT A PLEASANT PLACE TO BE. It was cutthroat and dirty...The Democratic Primaries are everyone for themselves.

I've lost that delusion of people being "kind, good and fair" when it comes to politics...and pretty much everything else in life. People are NOT basically "good" anymore. That's just a ridiculous thing to think. I sell on Ebay on occasion (and buy) and know for a FACT, that is not true. My son was in a College "friend's" dorm room last Friday and had his wallet stolen (what a NIGHTMARE that was!)! FROM A "FRIEND!" People ARE NOT "good and trustworthy" anymore. MAYBE 1 out of 100 in a room are, but most are not. They would steal from you in a heartbeat. You don't DARE lay down a bicycle, cell phone, a Kindle, a purse, a wallet or ANYTHING and walk away. It would be GONE. Stealing, lying, cheating are the new norm. A fact of life. Trust NO ONE. Especially trust no one sitting anonymously behind a computer screen!

Yes...we DO agree on the DU3. DU2 is much, much better.

[defendandprotect]

292. Juries are only about "HIDING" messages which you can decide to "see" ... Hosts DELETE -- !!

a completely different concept from what I understood at first --

Thought "hidden" was a new way of saying "deleted" -- or "removed" --

I like the idea of letting people vote to "see it all" --


but this again leaves HOSTS/MODS in sole possession of power to DELETE which

just takes us back to where we were -- with perhaps even more control in hands

of a HOST?

[truedelphi]

309. But if a topic isn't seen, it isn't seen.

I mean it can be argued that just because the Mainstream Media doesn't show more than one aspect of any given topic, that there is no real.

Which is a sound way of thinking about it - as long as you don't consider how much damage was done to the Collective Mind of America - and that the damged thinking brought about the War in Iraq Parts One and Two, and the Financial Crisis, and a broken political system.

[defendandprotect]

331. MODS are now HOSTS who will be deleting messages -- same old problem ... maybe worse?

DON'T WANT TO TOTALLY CHANGE THIS MESSAGE AT THIS POINT --

BUT OBVIOUSLY QUITE A BIT OFF IN ADDRESSING YOUR POST --


TRUE -- your point re messages not being seen -- EVEN if people can elect to see them.

But imo the Jury System announcement is overshadowing that reality --

and the reality of the HOSTS still being the primary "deleters" of posts!


---------------

If you're interested -- what I originally said --

:)

Look at the total disappearance of information about Israel into a black hole called

I/P!! Who does that benefit but Koch Bros. DLC and IPAAC?


Look at the total disappearance of information about our CIA/intelligence --

MIC which many here are concerned with and it's now all tossed into "9/11" -- !!

To imagine that anyone could say that this is "conspiracy-free America" -- or that our

MIC/Intelligence networks should not be a HUGE concern to all of us is madness!



Will Global Warming become "Creative speculation" -- ???


I don't know anyone but the occasional poster here who suggest they watch MSM except

in a sense of monitoring it?


Not only does the "press" -- (and about all I see is a bit of BBC now and then when they

interrupt their Sports reports) -- limit subjects/topics but NO ONE IS DEALING WITH CONCEPTS.


MIC and "intelligence" is an even greater threat than it was during IKE's day -- and he intended

to include "intelligence" but was taken out of his comments twice.

Certainly they are responsible for all that happened in Iraq -- we've been bombing them for

what -- 30 years now?

And the BS about 9/11-WMD just more license to pummel and occupy them for another 10 years?


This isn't really a time, imo, for a new DU3 -- it's a distraction from the things we need to

be focusing on -- OWS and dysfunction government. Wealthy in America BUYING government and

candidates --

and candidates still SELLING themselves!


And it certainly isn't a time to be limiting the freedom and flexibility on the website to post

anything of concern!!




:hi:

[Blue_In_AK]

91. I think you're right.

They can just drop the "Underground" from the name of the site and call it Democratic Consensus or something like that.

[Zhade]

204. Woodchuck Underground?

:p

[Blue_In_AK]

285. I like it. :)

[woo me with science]

191. The "...this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party" disclaimer is gone in DU3.

On the "About Us" page, there is no longer a statement that DU is not affliated with the Democratic Party.

[in_cog_ni_to]

196. OOOOOOh no. So...

support THE Democratic Party or else? Green/Progressives/Real LIBERALS are to be silent? Or maybe they just haven't gotten to the disclaimer yet? ;)

[sarcasmo]

221. Bingo.

[defendandprotect]

267. If Democratic Underground has "no connection" to Democratic Party, may be a good time ....

to make that clearer --

Simply changing "Democratic" to small "d" democratic would be a good start!!

[inna]

64. Wow. I hadn't even been aware of all these problems until now.

:(

[in_cog_ni_to]

66. They may not be problems for other people!

They are for ME. You may LOVE it. Go check it out.

[inna]

69. no, i by far prefer the current version, i.e. DU2 (n/t)

[Duer 157099]

65. I think a couple of your concerns can be addressed

You can opt for the "Classic" look in the browser, where the left side list is eliminated.

And you can have a list of 15 users who are "blacklisted" from being on any jury for any of your posts.

I happen to like many of the new features of DU3, but I've been playing over there all day getting familiar with it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

72. I did head over and change to Classic DU...MUCH better in the forum,

but stuff is still scattered/busy on the Latest Threads. Though it IS better than it was in the forum.

The Blacklist is INTRIGUING. :) I don't think 15 is enough though. There are many, many people on this site who are completely on the opposite end of the political spectrum from me. I'm way far left, Tree-Hugging, Bleeding Heart, Radical, Socialist, Commie Pinko on that spectrum. DU is NOT that anymore. Even with 15 blacklisted, that still leaves 5 people who can ban everything you post. Right? 20 Jurors in a forum? I think that's what I read?

Also, you need to know who isn't particularly fond of you. Right? There are some who are vocal and many others who are not. Hell, I just found out the other day people have me on ignore because of my FLY in my sig line! :rofl: They hate my fly! So, unless you have had specific arguments, maybe mean PMs from people, you really don't know who dislikes you to add them to your blacklist, so they can have a hay-day with your posts. I'm just sayin'....

[Duer 157099]

87. Well I just learned something disturbing about DU3

It's not implemented yet, but it may be helpful for you. You'll find it under the My Profile and here are the options that will be there soon:

Star members avoiding me: coming soon
Star members ignoring me (including members avoiding): coming soon
Star members blocking mail from me (including members ignoring and avoiding): coming soon

Ugh! Like I need more insecurity and anxiety in my life by knowing how many people are avoiding/ignoring or blocking me!

You, however, will find the info useful I suppose. Can help you craft your blacklist list :D

[Pithlet]

95. Ick! I keep hearing more and more I don't like!

And I'd rather the people I ignore not know it necessarily. Sometimes I block people just because they spam a bit much, but they're generaly nice, and I don't want to hur their feelings! This is all ridiculous, I'm sorry.

[snagglepuss]

109. I hadn't heard that before. Who I decide to ignore is private information

and how exactly does it help for someone to know they are on someone elses ignore list? I think it's ludicrious to make that information public. What it will do is to encourage cliques : "oh I see you don't like so and so well neither do we.

[truedelphi]

298. And some of us thought the un rec function bad enough! n/t

[fishwax]

376. they still won't know

Unless I'm mistaken, it provides a number but does not list names.

[in_cog_ni_to]

112. Oh Gaaaaaawd! That is going to SUCK. Now it'll be like third grade cliques!

The popular Star monied members who don't like you, are over here! The Popular Star Monied Members who are ignoring you are over Here! The Popular Star Monied members who you are not allowed to PM are over there! Is that going to NAME the members or just give a count? Good grief that sucks so bad I'm speechless! And I'm rarely speechless! :evilgrin:

HOLY CRAP...that is BAD, BAD, BAD.

[DeschutesRiver]

269. I had no idea about the jury, blacklist, etc.

DU has gone right wing? At least, these things represent attitudes and behaviors I see more frequently being justified by right wingers as "necessary and essential" to keep society in order (ie walking lockstep with their philosophy).

Honestly, I must be reading these last so many posts wrong, because who needs this shit?

I thought the only bad thing was that the board format looked basic, bland, primitive, kind of right wing/tea party/doomer low rent stylistically. Figured I might not like it but I'd use it since obviously the majority do like DU3 (perhaps tablet users find it easier to navigate being so basic).

But I have to look into this jury blacklist stuff, as I don't roll that way in real life and won't be part of such a thing online, if it is a "walk in lockstep" sort of thing, as that just stiffles discussion. Given some things I've seen here, I could imagine situations where some of this could have very bad outcomes of which I will not be a participant.

Hope this isn't as bad as I think.

[fishwax]

377. just a count--no names

That's my understanding ...

[seabeyond]

120. ya. i really dont need to know or care about that shit. i have always

ignored that shit. if i have something to say on a post, i do, regardless if the person ignores me or not. i dont want to know all the people that dont like me. lol

[woo me with science]

151. Yes. Knowing all this borders on creepy,

and will almost certainly create a lot of juvenile behavior.

[BrendaBrick]

158. It does border on creepy!

I think it would be a mistake to implement this feature. What purpose does it serve, anyway? Very bad idea.

[Name removed]

222. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

279. Funny --- !! And I barely ever notice a user name -- I react simply to the message of the post --

so I'd have no clue -- except from my Ignore list --

And, I pay little attention to the username when I put someone on Ignore --

In fact, I think probably most of the people on my Ignore list have left the

website and come back with new identities?

[in_cog_ni_to]

I've used the ignore ONCE and I think that user is now gone. :)

If I don't like someone, I just ignore them by not reading their posts, though there are not many people who bother me THAT much. There's a few I can think of who annoy the hell out of me because of their undying love/support for a politician who can do no wrong. That's just nuts. When I see their names, I just move on because I already know what they're going to post. :)

[defendandprotect]

339. Well ...

I probably have something like 70 people on my ignore list --

and evidently many here have much, much longer ignore lists.


I've had one rule for putting people on ignore -- being disingenuous.

Lately, two or three were added because they were simply obnoxious.


Generally, I try to deal with what everyone has to say.


:hi:

[truedelphi]

297. Is this true? Five people form a jury and see to it that

Your post is no longer available for others?

Or twenty people?

Crappola. Well, at least I am welcome at Firedoglake, and will be there more often than here I guess.

[SkyDaddy7]

181. I do like some of the new features but...

Doing away with the current DU Home page is not good! In DU3 you have would have to navigate to all over the place just to get the info you can get now at a glance. Oh well.

[bvar22]

70. I went over there this afternoon.

I even posted to a sub-forum.

I agree with you.
I told myself, "Give it some time.
You'll get used to it",
but I don't think so now.
I don't see any real improvement,
and some of the changes could destroy the open exchange of ideas we currently enjoy.

I also have no use for FaceBook or Twitter.
:shrug:



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[defendandprotect]

280. Well, that's just it .... !! What were the GOALS of DU3 -- to create more control/domination

over what's being posted?

Or was there a more desirable goal?

[immoderate]

375. The goal was automation, I think. Mods are replaced by software.

Instead of attracting, training and maintaining a system of mods, a jury is formed. The software does the job (by finding the jury.)

--imm

[Major Hogwash]

71. So, when are you going to start your own forum??

I'd like to see what it looks like when you do.

[in_cog_ni_to]

76. Geezusfuckingkrist....

A question was asked and I gave my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, just fucking ignore it. Dammit. You people drive me INSANE with your bullshit.

[Major Hogwash]

207. I don't care what the people say . . .

. . . Christmas time is here.

Sorry for driving you insane.
Merry Christmas, dude.

[in_cog_ni_to]

241. Happy Chanukah, DUDE. n/t

[inna]

124. lame and substance-free, in (sharp) contrast to the post to which you were responding

[woo me with science]

137. Good lord, are you twelve? nt

[Major Hogwash]

206. "I'm this many."

LoL

Don't you love kids?

[DainBramaged]

203. I guess folks aren't allowed to speak their minds?

When you own DU you can crush the the dissent any way you'd like.

[Major Hogwash]

205. No, that's not it. Go right ahead and give me a piece of your mind.

Just be sure and hold back a piece for yourself.

:rofl:

[DainBramaged]

211. That is it.

And you don't have enough of your own to understand why.

[defendandprotect]

281. Hogwash -- "If you don't like what's going on, leave" ... ???? Wow!!

Perhaps most of all what needs to be defeated is the desire to eliminate criticism

not by dealing with it, but by extinguishing it!!


But what you're saying wouldn't be a "STFU" by any chance, would it?

[CakeGrrl]

83. Jurors do not choose. They are randomly asked by the system when a post is alerted

And they are anonymous to each other.

You can decline the invitation if you want.

No one gets to gang up. I got to try it earlier today as have many others who are trying out the new page.

[in_cog_ni_to]

92. So the juror doesn't know whose post they're deleting? That's a plus, but it still doesn't allow

for a difference of opinions as far as candidates go or political opinions go, right? And if you know who's posting in that forum...and you don't like them or their opinions, you would of course accept that "invitation." The 2004 Primary election? 2008 sucked pretty bad too. It was not a pretty sight.

What about the hosts on a forum? What do they do? I saw one forum where two people volunteered to be hosts. What do they do exactly?

[seabeyond]

121. they know who they are deleting. they dont know who alerted.

randomly drawn. now, lets think about all the posters that say nothing should be censored and all should be allowed. what if three are randomly drawn. then the posts stays, regardless how it breaks du rules.

what if three are sexist
what if three are homophobic and doesnt think the gay joke is offensive.
what if three are racist

the post stays.

no strong line on what is allowed

[in_cog_ni_to]

126. Well THAT changes the whole thing then. That means

they CAN target people they don't like/agree with. Racism and Homophobia are two issues DUers are pretty united on. Probably the ONLY two issues they're United on. Racism is racism. Homophobia is Homophobia. Sexism? Not so much. That tends to run based on gender.

I can see a group of buddies in a forum working in tandem. One group in the forum alerting and others being jurors...working together to sanitize DU. There's so many ways this can be bad. :(

[seabeyond]

128. so many ways.... nt

[inna]

141. +

not always agree with you, but most definitely agree on this issue

[woo me with science]

149. Good post. nt

[fishwax]

382. I don't agree with you that DUers are pretty much united on racism and homophobia

I don't disagree with you that the division is more pronounced when it comes to sexism, though.

Still, if one spends time reading the GLBT forum or the (now, unfortunately, almost abandoned) African-American Issues Group one learns the extent to which members of these communities feel subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) forms of attack remain all-too-often on DU.

[NYC Liberal]

125. I believe that posts judged by the Juries aren't "deleted"; they are hidden.

And there is (or will be) an option to view hidden posts.

Though posts deleted by mods (hosts?) will actually be deleted, as is the case right now.

[in_cog_ni_to]

127. Oooooh. So, the Hosts are the ones we should be worried about.

:)

Hidden posts are then optionally read by DUers? What is the point of that? Why are some posts hidden?

[seabeyond]

129. and can you continue to post in a hidden thread? wow, that works. geez

what is that gonna be about. sigh....

[NYC Liberal]

163. Threads are locked, not hidden. So no.

And people who have had a post "deleted" (hidden) can't post in the thread anymore.

[Pithlet]

142. It seems that way. The whole thing is just weird.

You have the hosts with the most power, more than any mods ever had. That already seems to working out to be a mess in one forum. They're going to have to really work some kinks out with that before they launch DU3. Then the jury, which seems almost pointless, since the posts don't go anywhere. Then the ones who can ban people, which are the most like the old mods. An uneven mishmash of modding. Should be interesting.

[defendandprotect]

286. THAT completely changes Jury Duty to a negative -- Wow -- !!

Never presume anything, right?

My understanding was that "hidden" was the new "deleted" --

However, if "Hosts" with control over a forum can simply DELETE posts then we're

simply back where we began -- i.e., subjected to political bias of the host!

[NYC Liberal]

363. Sorry, my apologies. Hosts cannot delete posts.

They can only lock threads.

[Blue_In_AK]

162. I got picked as a juror today,

and surprisingly all but one of my fellow anonymous jurors agreed with me that the alerted post should stay. I think this system is fair and can probably work out over the long run.

[defendandprotect]

287. Think everyone who went to DU3 got "picked" .... however, HOSTS will still govern the deletes ....

Jury Duty only serves to decide when posts will be "hidden" or not --

You can decide that you want to see a "hidden" post --

BUT IT WILL BE HOSTS WHO GOVERN FORUMS/GROUPS WHO CAN ACTUALLY DELETE MESSAGES --

so it seems we're pretty much back where we were before -- but with a name change

from "MOD" to "HOST" -- ????

[KoKo]

88. well........i didn't want to say...but,

your post expresses my concerns exactly. And...the "Blacklist and Jury." There are some very "creepy" things that I didn't really want to point out. So, thanks for your post that got me started.

Although, it remains to be seen if DU3 works out to be worse headache than the old sites for Skinner and the "selected Host Mods." So....I'm willing to give it a further look to see how it works out.

What else is there to say? :shrug: It is what it is.

[Bonobo]

147. I also don't like the idea of being stalked by people who want to see what I have recced and

what I have hidden, etc.

DU3 gives took much power to stalker types and haters.

[BlueIris]

90. This is more or less what I was thinking.

What this will do to narrow the debate on this discussion board is appalling. Discussing of certain social problems (LGBTIQ rights, anyone?) will all but disappear. What kills me is that anyone thought this would help matters. I don't think the format change is going to improve conditions at all.

[snagglepuss]

97. "immensely dislike it and it's too late to do anything about it". My sentiments

exactly. I feel exactly the same way for all the reasons you have so clearly articulated, something I could not do as I am upset, to say the least. What I would add is that I absolutley loathe the terms "soapbox" and "good reads", both smack of superfical, cheery, 'fun' corporate team building.

[defendandprotect]

265. Interesting -- and while I have thought the new Jury Duty could work well, many don't think so ....

so I'm listening closely to what the criticisms are --

My main focus on this CHANGE is what were the goals -- ??

Was it to create more space for advertisements -- ?

Was it to make it easier for people to connect with twitter and Facebook and for

greater access from iphones, etal?

I presumed it was about making room for expansion -- making a more open and flexible

and exciting website -- but the end product is shaping up as being mechanical, boring --

and mainly about CONTROL -- !!

What was the purpose of all of this work? Can anyone say?

[seabeyond]

278. how does this feel to you defend.

there are quite a few men on du that state they want to create sexist threads. and they often do. moderators do a pretty good job controlling this. so a man puts 15 of the most likely women that will call them out for their sexism. there are not that many women that speak out. and there are two forums to gather names. not to mention those of us most verbal and will be the first on their black list. how easy does it then become for them to pull a jury that is not going to be offended by a sexist post. a naked girl. not a big deal. we like tits. no offense there.

no one is held to the rules of du.

there is no longer going to be a line of what is allowed and what is not.

it is not a tough thing for the guys to do, creating an hostile environment for women.

[RagAss]

61. +1000

I get the feeling that poor scum like me without a star will be driven out of there in no time.

[cherokeeprogressive]

73. Me no like. n/t

[patrice]

75. Adaptation is the nature of the beast known as the internet. Let's see what happens.

I think I know some of the issues that DU is trying to adapt to in creating DU3. Let's see if it worked, but then that will depend upon members willingness to adapt too and some of what drives this development may be stuff that people here do not want to change.

[patrice]

77. BTW, does anyone know what happens to this DU, when DU3 goes into production? nt

[madinmaryland]

263. It will become inactive, though will still be viewable.

[fishwax]

79. I like a lot of the changes to functionality, and am somewhat ambivalent about changes to layout

I think the jury system has promise, like the changes to my posts and the editing system, like the way groups will be handled, and so on. I like the tweaks to the posting page, such as showing the name of the poster you're responding to.

I'm not sure how I feel about the use of hosts who can unilaterally lock threads in the main forums, but I guess we'll see how it plays out.

With respect to layout I'm not yet as keen on it as I am the current version, but I'm not sure how much that will change as I simply get used to it. I think it looks a little, um, sterile, I guess.

[Blue_In_AK]

82. I'm not real crazy about it,

but I guess we'll all get used to it. Either that or go somewhere else.

[BlueIris]

85. Not just you. I hate the new format. While some of the new features look interesting,

I think this is the wrong way to go about changing the site. I further think it's not going to work.

[Donnachaidh]

86. nope - besides looking bland they now lump in lounge posts in the latest threads?

So people have to swim through lounge posts to find news? :puke:

Good luck with that! Not meant to down regular lounge posters, but the latest threads and gd posts are what folks are looking for, not endless postings about lady gaga or some other silliness....

[KoKo]

89. I didn't see that in the instructions about New DU. Are you sure about this?

:shrug:

[Donnachaidh]

132. well, they saidnto go in and look

I went to the latest postings area and saw a jumble of all sorts of forums, including lounge postings. If this is the way it's going to be, there will be lots of people losing interest and looking for a forum that doesn't jumble postings in all at once, nkind of like FB does now. :shrug:

[myrna minx]

228. This morning there was so much lounge spam by one poster that the latest page was

both embarrassing and annoying.

[madinmaryland]

264. From what I understand, you will be able to shut off lounge threads from

showing up on the Latest Threads.

[immoderate]

372. That was fixed. They're adding functions as we work it.

When you go to Latest, you can set the filter to "Political" and it ignores the lounge and other vanity forums. You can also sort by recs and activity. It's really one of the better parts, I think.

--imm

[fishwax]

373. that's just for now -- they'll have a way to eliminate lounge threads eventually

It's still in the testing stage, and not all the functions have been programmed yet. :)

[otohara]

93. Not Alone

I like seeing it all laid out - now I'm sad! :cry:

[snagglepuss]

102. +1

[Raine]

98. No, you're not. So far I don't like it much, hopefully

it will get better. Personally I have a hard time dealing with change, so I'm not suprised I don't like it. :-(

[Puglover]

99. Oh jesus christ.

Maybe giving it more then 10 minutes to judge might be in order. :eyes:

On edit: IF, as some say it becomes a bland DLC echo chamber, well then buh bye DU. Simple as that.

[SkyDaddy7]

183. 10 minutes? LOL!

Try again.

[defendandprotect]

293. Resist the urge to suppress criticism ... do you want to wait until board is finished ....

for people to begin to comment on what's wrong with it?

Skinner and administration aren't dumb -- they want to know NOW what might

need changing before they put DU3 in place!!

And that's why this thread is an excellent idea -- !!

[RebelOne]

106. I do not have an opinion because it won't let me log on. n/t

[pipi_k]

108. I don't really like significant change either, but....

Just like when I didn't like the changes to Facebook at first, I did get used to them.

And when Mr Pipi changed my browser from Internet Explorer to Firefox, I didn't like it (actually I hated it) but I got used to it.

So yeah...this is another change. I don't like the way it looks, but from what I've read about some of the features, that makes up for it all, and I'm pretty sure I'll get used to it.

:)

[jtrockville]

113. I love how it feels on my droid. Much smarter. nt

[L0oniX]

114. I can't wait for DU4. n/t

[sarcasmo]

247. DU 4 will be a 100 dollars a year.

[Better Believe It]

115. This could turn into a war game to see which DU political grouping can lock the most posts!

Let the games begin!

I can see DU turning into a real lovefest with everyone who doesn't like or agree with a post locking down hundreds of threads.

Meanwhile 150,000 or so DU'ers will flee for saner and more democratic discussion pastures!

Is this "jury" thing a serious proposal or is Skinner just having some fun with us?

OK now Skinner. Stop that. It's no longer funny!

[flying rabbit]

166. My thought as well.

It could work out, but human nature being what it is...

[bikebloke]

116. Don't care for the cascading posts.

Uniform like they are now looks cleaner.

[snagglepuss]

138. +1000

[scarletwoman]

117. Getting used to the "new normal" - that's what good citizens do, isn't it?

Disclaimer: I haven't gone over and checked out the latest preview yet, but I've checked out all the previous previews and came away rather disheartened.

Since I rarely post here anymore anyway, I don't think that my opinion means much. If DU3 turns out to be too unattractive, I'll just quietly drift away and spend less time online - which probably isn't a bad thing, all in all.

It's sort of like getting out of a relationship. It may not be what you'd prefer, but it is what it is and you go on with your life, one way or another.

I've had some absolutely wonderful times here on DU over the last 10+ years, but for the most part, my best times have already receded into the past.

I really appreciate that you started this thread. It's very interesing and informative. I suspect that I'll just let go and find some other outlet for my thoughts if I feel the need to do so.

sw

[Still Blue in PDX]

118. I don't like it, but I'm a firm believer in not fixing things that aren't broken. nt

[Texasgal]

122. Too soon for me to make an objective

opinion about it.

I will try it first and see how it goes, you should too.

[undeterred]

130. I was happy to get out of it.

[Auntie Bush]

131. You are not alone.

I'm so comfortable with DU the was it is/was. Typical of older people...not comfortable with change.

[babylonsister]

133. I hate change once I've gotten the hang of something. Remember

'the mouse'? I HATED it and told my boss in 1995 it would never fly. :blush:

So I'll hush my mouth and see how it goes. I got used to this place, so I can get used to a new format, and there's lots of help to be had should we need it.

[Jefferson23]

134. Editorials and Other Articles section is gone, or placed somewhere else?

No, you're not alone btw. I have not used the preview much yet, some features seem to be good additions.

The current DU format is like a comfortable pair of slippers, may take me time to break in the new one.

[flvegan]

136. Nope, you're not.

No disrespect to the time, energy and money that went into building, but even to this day, DU has the best message board/blog thing whatever out there.

[Awsi Dooger]

139. Looks like a stupid man's idea of what a smart website should look like

The changes are so ghastly and unnecessary it's like a parody. A major golf site I used to like -- The Sand Trap -- made a wholesale senseless switch to "more modern" appearance a couple of years ago, and drove me away along with countless others. We found a new home and never looked back.

Speaking of golf, getting rid of General Discussion is like the Masters deciding to relocate from Augusta.

Same with General Discussion: Politics, a slower moving version of General Discussion where I can comfortably catch up with any polls or political news I may have missed during the day.

Soapbox, really? That sounds like one of Microsoft's brainstorms, determined to be as boring as possible.

I didn't see a Sports forum, merely a a group with separate listings for football, basketball, baseball, etc. Whoever designed that switch obviously has never visited the Sports forum or acquired any feel for it. Many of the best threads are sarcastic references to ongoing themes in that forum and sports in general, not specific to one sport. You've ruined Sports as a topic on this site if that change is what we're left with.

DU is one of the rare websites sensible enough not to allow quoted text, and to have posts clinging to the left of the page while taking up the entire width. Great combo, lacking clutter while maintaining an impression of substantial. Indented threads look considerably worse and force the headline onto two lines, meaning fewer topics will be obvious at first glance. I realize there is a preference option but default is what newcomers will evaluate, and regulars will be stuck with. I'll bet the under in opting out, no matter how low you set the number.

Otherwise, I have not sampled some of the new features but their potential application as described by sharp posters in this thread is scary. We already tried visible ignore lists several years ago, with such disastrous consequences the practice was quickly scrapped. I remember the disgraceful taunting in Election Reform.

[joshcryer]

140. I predict Soapbox won't last a month.

[in_cog_ni_to]

148. I agree, but where will all the GD diehards go?

:( I LIVE in this forum. Literally. I rarely wander out of here because other forums just don't interest me as much. I like the eclectic feel of this place. It's a perfect mix of people and topics. What's not to like about GD??

[joshcryer]

157. We'll have GD/GDP as before.

I of course hope to be wrong as I think the level of discourse would be much higher if the factions can start seeing eye to eye, but I'm cynical on that count.

If it goes as I predict, then I think juries will become forum specific (so if you post more in one forum than the other your jury 'pull' will be slanted that way).

I do think it will be a painful transition for some and we will lose good posters due to blowouts as they are unable to adapt to the changes.

[in_cog_ni_to]

197. So The Soapbox isn't the GD replacement?

Skinner said it is though. I think I read that on one of the Soapbox threads yesterday.

[defendandprotect]

296. Never went to "GD/GDP" -- !! And JURY DUTY is only re "hidden" posts -- HOSTS still delete -- !!

Two different systems --

MODS are now HOSTS with same powers to delete -- but more control over a forum/group.

Same problems will persist - and this may worsen them?


Meanwhile, Jury Duty is only about HIDING posts -- which you can still elect to see.


Factions will only cease AFTER the issues are hammered out --

However, the goal of DU3 seems to be to shut down that hammering out rather than to

deal with it. This will only worsen the polarization, imo.

[truedelphi]

355. The way the wording of your last statement is set up

as it is seems to indicate that those who aren't willing to adapt are just being inflexible.

But there has to be some reason to come to a particular discussion forum.

Layout is one of the things that makes a site have appeal. I belong to DailyKos, but the fact that Kos is set up very differently than DU makes it less appealing to partake of.

I cannot determine what is what with the new setup, as I can't get into DU3.

But people discussing it who are longtime buddies of mine are describing features we now have that will be gone. And who needs a "jury" and who needs to be told that certain words and expressions cannot be used? (There is a comment on this thread that says the term "conspiracy theory" cannot be used?!?)

[defendandprotect]

294. Strange goal of DU3 ... change General Discussion to "soapbox" and LIMIT subjects -- !! Whaat?????

[in_cog_ni_to]

332. Pretty bizarre, eh? We can only assume they want to get rid of GD.

It must be too much work or something. Too many people with too many opinions.

[Harmony Blue]

320. I am inclined to agree

I think what may happen is that forum may be divided into two most likely.

[Princess Turandot]

155. Sports forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/du3/?com=forum&id=1204

[madinmaryland]

266. Dude! The Sports Forum is still there...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/du3/?com=forum&id=1204

Come on over! Things have not changed!!

[fishwax]

374. there's still a sports forum

All the smaller forums are now called groups, so it's technically a sports group, but there is one for sports in general, just as on the current DU: http://www.democraticunderground.com/du3/?com=forum&id=1204.

I agree with you about soapbox, and I'm not big on the appearance either. I like a lot of the functionality, and am more hopeful about the controversial features than some--but, then, there has been a lot of blatantly wrong information here on DU2 about how those features actually work.

[JanMichael]

143. not so far

the tabbed areas aren't as interesting...oh well.

I doubt some folks will be around as much anymore.

[JanMichael]

144. it's going from a website forum, to a blog

on steroids.

[in_cog_ni_to]

150. It has a completely different feel to it, don't you think?

It's almost like a completely different board. Very little of this old place in it. :(

[snagglepuss]

175. It's a very different feel. Slick and corporate.

:(

[Awsi Dooger]

146. My mistake, there is a Sports forum

Tucked away beneath listings of forums for specific sports.

Sports is very low trafficked. No need for multiple venues, unless one is strictly Tim Tebow.

[seabeyond]

165. i thought the same as you looking at the catagories. nt

[madinmaryland]

271. I think they just copied over the current groups/forums that exist now.

I agree that the football and baseball forums are rarely ever used, and should just be part of the general sports forum.

[ThomCat]

154. I see much that I don't particularly like

and I'm hearing even more that I don't like from others who are getting to play with the bells and whistles.

[dameocrat67]

156. I cant login to it.

it tells me my username does not exist. i have to login into it to report as a bug too. I am using seamonkey with a firefox useragent on ubuntu lucid.

[joshcryer]

160. The database was imported Jan 19, so you'll just have to hold out a bit longer.

Unfortunately you won't be able to beta test with the rest of us. :(

[inna]

329. and... how do you know that?

[backscatter712]

159. Changes always require adjustments. We'll make it through this.

The new software for DU3, as I've seen it, does have some advantages. It's faster. The pages are cleaner. The new moderation system, with the juries & such, I find quite promising, and may hold people to a higher standard of behavior than the old DU2 moderation system and the lengthy lists of rules.

Personally, I think a lot of the time, people freak out when they're asked to adjust to changes, but once they work through them, things turn out alright. The new software has a lot of things that I think will improve DU. There will be bugs and problems, but I'm confident Skinner & co. will be able to fix them and get us through them.

[defendandprotect]

299. Better to make "adjustments" before DU3 is put in place -- HOWEVER ....

Jury Duty doesn't replace the MOD system --

Jury Duty is only intended to "HIDE" messages which others can elect to "see" --


MODS/HOSTS will still have the power to delete messages -- and only they will have

that power. Other than administration. This leaves us perhaps worse off than we

were before?


Two different systems.


Too high a level of control overall -- which can easily become domination.

Especially evident in the freedom and flexibility to post anything at all in General

Discussion/Soapbox -- which by the way is another silly name change!


Idea is to keep the comments flowing NOW so that when DU3 comes in most of these issues

will have already been attended to.

[Hugabear]

161. Is there anything wrong with the current DU?

In other words, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

[defendandprotect]

300. Great question --- and I'm not clear on what the GOALS of DU3 actually were -- ????

[Atman]

167. You're not alone, but it doesn't mean you're correct.

Before coming to DU, I regularly posted on a liberal Yahoo board. This was many years ago. I kept getting links to the fledgling DU, but every time I visited it just blew my mind...it was overwhelming, too complicated, too damned much stuff. I didn't know where to begin. I liked my little Yahoo group because it was familiar. I had it figured out, and I felt I was part of a community. Much like I think the OP feels about the current DU.

Then I actually "had to" join DU because of some thread I was linked to, and I felt the need to respond. That forced me to figure out how the site worked. Once I figured out where things were, I gained comfort in visiting DU. I started posting more as I became more comfortable. I soon found that I was rarely posting on the Yahoo board, and when I did it was to post links to DU threads. That was in 2003.

I understand the natural resistance to change, and my first thought with DU3 was "I don't want to deal with this...I like DU2." But now I've made a couple of posts on 3 and received a couple responses and am figuring out the structure, and hey...it's pretty nice. Sure it's different. But that doesn't mean it's bad, or that you won't get used to it, or *gasp* even like it once you've actually used it for a bit.

[SkyDaddy7]

258. Sure, that applies to some people but...

not all...Some of us have no problem with change...And learning how to navigate DU3 is not a concern. The problem I have is with change just because the rest of the internet is doing it.

Oh well.

[defendandprotect]

301. This isn't a resistance to change ... It's questioning the changes ... what were the goals?

Why now call MODS "HOSTS" ... ??

Jury Duty is a completely different system which only HIDES messages which you

can still elect to "see" ---

Deleting posts is still in hands of MODS/HOSTS -- same problems!

Maybe worse?


THIS IS NOW the time to deal with these questions before DU3 is put in place --

[barbtries]

168. so far i don't.

but i think i will withhold judgment until i have more experience with it. as for now, i keep reverting back to the good old familiar.

[Pharaoh]

169. It sucks!

sounds like some people like it cause it works better on their phone! WTF, the web was not meant for a 2 inch screen!

I miss the videos and the latest breaking and greatest threads right on the home page. Please if you keep anything the same, keep that.

Edit to add: Gawd it looks more like freepland than anything else I can recognize.

[City Lights]

170. As of now, I like it.

I like it more today than I did yesterday. And while I like it overall, there are some things I don't care for. I definitely think there is an adjustment period involved, though. DU2 is home. I feel warm and cozy here. My hope is that DU3 will feel a bit warmer each day.

[DaveJ]

171. I understand. It's different but still nice.

In all honesty it is apparent that DU3 is centered around the social media options. And that's fine with me. There are several times I've wanted to share a post on Facebook or Twitter but had no way to do it (I'd also like an email option). The post itself is now the center of attention, whereas before the homepage was the center of attention.

I grew accustomed to the homepage being the focus, and that was not immediately intuitive. It took time. (and actually I never knew who decided what got on the homepage, so it seemed a little authoritarian) It makes more sense from Democratic perspective to make the posts the center of attention and overall it seems more democratic by allowing people to rate and promote topics via social media options and the jury.

It's not perfect, but for an initial release it really is incredibly nice. It is rare that such a major overhaul is immediately as fine tuned as this. Great job!

[dionysus]

172. you'll end up liking it. same thing happened when we went from DU2 to DU3. i was like WTF this sucks

then i got used to it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

242. Not true. DU2 hardly changed at all from DU1. They added

stupid rules, rec/unrec/alert/hide and shit like that, but the board and format stayed basically the same. DU3 is NOTHING like this board.

[truedelphi]

353. Uh oh. I agree with you perhaps .01% of the time.

So your statement almost guarantees that the "new" DU will not be to my liking.

[GOTV]

173. I don't like the home page as much but ...

... I assume the home page will be different when the point of DU3 isn't to introduce people to DU3 but becomes mainly politically focused again.

Apart from the current state of the home page I think the rest of it is pretty good.

[tomm2thumbs]

174. I think the term 'blacklist' isn't necessarily the best choice for a Democratic website

The term blacklisting is generally used in a pejorative context, as it implies that someone has been prevented from having legitimate access due to the whims or judgments of another. For example, a person being served with a restraining order for having threatened another person would not be considered a case of blacklisting. However, somebody who is fired for exposing poor working conditions in a particular company, and is subsequently blocked from finding work in that industry, may be considered to have been blacklisted. * wiki

Not a big fan of the Jury/judgment terminology either - not suggesting 'review' would be better but there is definitely a feeling words can convey and being judged vs. reviewed by peers is quite different

[defendandprotect]

302. Exactly -- lots of poor choices in renaming ... "Soapbox" ... "Creative Speculation" ... ????

[abelenkpe]

176. Don't like but will get used to. Nt

[a2liberal]

178. No, you're not

The greatest articles, journal entries, etc. NEED to be on the getting page, not some obscure hard-to-find link. The mobile site is kinda nice but I keep my phone browser in desktop mode most of the time because many mobile websites are so crippled and the desktop version of DU3 seems _worse_ for the phone than the current site.

[backtoblue]

179. I'll let ya know whenever I can log onto it!

[Junkdrawer]

182. DU3: For those times when a simple thumb on the scale is not enough....

And I guess this election is seen as one of those times.

[defendandprotect]

303. Think this is a poor time to make a change like this ---

Should have been done during the summer --

or after the election --

And that's why I think a thread like this -- and presume many of them --

is a good idea to work out the issues faster before DU3 is put in place???

[riverbendviewgal]

184. where is the home page on DU 3

I like DU2.....Not at all inclined toward DU3

[StandingInLeftField]

185. Visually, home page is just another blog.

Although changing browser view to "classic" helped in the forums section. Will withhold judgement for now...

[Jakes Progress]

188. Just where was the current DU broken? Why fix what works?

What is so wrong with this very popular and very used site that made such a disjointed and clunky interface necessary?

Can you say "New Coke"?

[SkyDaddy7]

194. "New Coke"...My thoughts exactly!!

Every time Skinner would make a post about the DU3 & they would open it up for discussion I saw almost nothing but high praise & I could not for the life of me figure out WHY...After this last time I honestly wondered if i was the only one who did not like it...I now know I am not. I actually did not expect so many people to publicly voice their concerns. I think many people do not want to be critical because we all know how hard those 3 work on DU...Maybe once things are up & running for good they will at least bring back the Home page where one can get info at glance rather than having to navigate all over to get the same info. I know there are other concerns as well regarding certain features I don't use or even know what they are. We will see.

:hi:

[Jakes Progress]

232. It's a case of myopia.

Coke, DU. They see things from their point instead of customers or users. There was not a huge clamor for change from DU'ers. We have become accustomed to the system. But if you have to manage it, it might seem interesting to shake things up, to seem all zippy. Now we all have to deal with tutorials and learn to navigate a new system. Sure we can. But who asked for them to make things more difficult. It is for them. Not for us.

But hey. They own the site. It is theirs. They can do what they want. They will always have a number of lickers who will say they love the way things are hidden and all the liking around. Most of us just want to discuss issues and keep up with progressive trends. The current home page is unique in the forum world. It is concise and leads you where you want to go. The new site resembles a cross between Salon, Slate, and HuffPo. The ease of use and comprehensive experience was why many keep coming here. There are other progressive sites, but they lacked the ease of use on DU. Not now.

[SkyDaddy7]

362. I am starting to think the major reason for the changes...

has to do with making the site better for mobile phones & tablets...However, I have not had issues with either one of those forms of technology on the current DU. Who knows?

[Jakes Progress]

364. Then the reason is silly because

many sites have separate designs for mobile display. I have a number of aps that mimic sites I use. The site on my laptop stays the same, but it is ported in a different design that is chunked for the phone. Maybe they just have lazy or second rate tech support. Seems unlikely if the support has kept apace with all the traffic on DU. The reason is either to cover a philosophical change or just for the sake of change. Either controlling or pointless. We'll know eventually. I think it will drive many to other sites that have had little traffic because the interface was so clunky. Now DU will be just as clunky. Oh well. It's their site. They get to make it whatever they want. What it is is what they want it to be. Philosophy statements and mission statements aside - it is what it is.

[sarcasmo]

253. We all know how long the new coke lasted.

[defendandprotect]

305. IMO, the question of "MODS" was the biggest problem for members and for administration ...???

Presumably that was the top goal ?

I've never seen a list of the goals of DU3 -- some may have been just

computer related?


However, we will now have TWO systems in place which could generally be

called MOD --

The Jury System which makes decisions only to HIDE posts which others can still

elect to "see" --

However, MODS are now called "HOSTS" and seemingly the same problems will be with us -- ???

HOSTS will retain the power to delete posts --

[truedelphi]

352. I remember why new Coke was manufactured and put out in

The grocery stores.

It had been offered in taste tests, in very small tastes. And people liked the new Coke in very small amounts.

The problem for the people at Coca Cola was that in the end, it turned out that the public didn't like new Coke enough to drink an entire bottle of it.

Same thing could happen here at DU.

[Jakes Progress]

365. It was bean counters.

They kept losing blind taste tests to Pepsi. If people saw the bottles, they picked Coke overwhelmingly. But if it was a blind test and they were told these were two new colas, they picked the Pepsi's almost every time. Turns out to be no big secret formula. Pepsi has more sugar. So they put more sugar (sweetener) in Coke and people picked it almost every time over Pepsi in blind tests. Human is a human does.

But the bean counters discounted their own mystique. Almost every time people saw the coke bottle, they picked it over anything. They liked the feel and the aura of Coca Cola. Stupid, myopic bean counters.

And you are right. The same thing will happen here. The people who own DU don't have any idea why people come here. The come for the feel and the aura. They are taking away both. Welcome to New DU. Hey, we can call it NuDu.

[TheKentuckian]

189. After further consideration the new site is junky and appears to be designed to limit dialog and

debate with too damn much sequestration and gimmicky moderation gambits.

Splintering our best and most trafficked forums into little pods is just silly and having to comb through several to get less than we have in one is make work.

Adjusting to the appearance is one thing but the changes in formats and spirit are most unwelcome.

I also fail to see an enhancement to my mobile experience at all but I don't do the mobile view so it ends up being more cluttered than before.

[KoKo]

219. Agree....I just spent more time over there..

and have your concerns along with some others here about the sequestration and gimmiky moderation gambits. The Jury and Trial are offputting and having 20 Hosts for the two largest Forums seems like something that could cause trouble down the road.

Yesterday, on first visit, I thought I could get used to it...that it was just change. But, after today I can see that the changes are radical and not just a new "format" that we can adjust to, given more time.

[nolabels]

243. Some piece #%@% salesperson sold the DU owners and they swallowed it

They obviously have already signed the contract for the change so i am not going to waste anymore time making noise about it. Hope others have a nice day with the other parts of their lives :hi:

[KoKo]

366. It sounds like it was written by Lawyers and MBA's from America's Greatest Schools..

It's gobbledegook! Nowhere does it define anything as to what the "real purpose" of DU is...or what "Code" that the folks who Donate and Participate in this Site should adhere to?

What is the definition of an "unappropriate site, or the other stuff put in there" mean? Give us some GUIDELINES! There's Nothing there. Which is very different from the original DU Site's "Statement of Purpose" when I joined back in the early 2011's and went through the other "UPGRADES" to the site where the Guidelines were VERY CLEAR. Not this waffling language that sounds like either the DU Lawyer or McKinsey put it together for Skinner/et al to post to us.

:-( It's disappointing to many of us who fell we "BULT THIS SITE" with our TEARS, ANGUAISH, SWEAT AND BLOOD. (I know that sounds like hyperbole)...but ALL of US BUILT THIS SITE so that the Ad Revenue CAME IN! And, we DONATED...Year after Year after Year.

TO the Garbage Heap with YA!....Whatever... It is what it is.

[nolabels]

369. There must of been a typo, you were have been here since 2001

I since somewhere near then but at any rate we have had our good times and bad times but at least we know we are better for it. It has been nice of you being here with rest of us. We have had our times and they can't sell our memories. We are kind of losing an old friend but life still goes on :grouphug:

[defendandprotect]

314. Agree -- it's the first thing that hits you in the face -- LIMITS subjects and flexibility ...

Trust everyone will go to DU3 and take a good luck around as often as possible

because THIS is the time to deal with these questions before DU3 is put in place.

Name changes are also inane --


Also the Jury Duty system is only intended to deal with messages to be "hidden" --

though members can still decide to "see" those messages --


MODS -- who are now called "HOSTS" will still have the power to delete messages which

is pretty much the old system -- only maybe a bit worse?


Where we have to be careful is that the desire of a few on DU to LIMIT discussion and

to CONTROL others doesn't become policy on DU3 --


That Obama is under heavy fire is clear -- and it will remain so -- this isn't going to change

whether there's a new DU3 or not --


And, it would in fact be a great mistake for DU3 to succeed in any such effort because it

would only hurt the website in the long run --


think administrators would be too smart to let that -- ???

[Oilwellian]

192. People like convenience and information at a glance

DU3 forces one to click many links to get the information they want. Great for ad hits, terrible for those with limited time to peruse the web. I also agree with many of the concerns others have mentioned.

[NeeDeep]

195. It's Lifeless

austere and misses the whole point. I have DU loaded all the time and renew the page thru out the day so I can find out what is going on and see the most responded to threads. DU3 looks like some text only newsgroup. DU is like a 21 century multi-channel TV that allow me to click and read or watch TV or correspond. COME ON! You're gonna kill DU by going backwards!

[DainBramaged]

200. 67 recommendations and people are trying to squelch dissent

sorry folks, it ain't an improvement.

[sarcasmo]

224. +1

[defendandprotect]

315. Foolish to try to "squelch dissent" -- these are issues to work out NOW ... before DU3 begins --!!

THIS is the place to get things straightned out NOW --

but imo this should have been done during the summer --

this is an interruption even now in looking at what's going on --

Our nation is in DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES -- we're trying to beat a depression ---

politically our entire system is rotting away from top to bottom!!

We need to be concenetrating on OWS -- not DU3!!


:hi:

[SixthSense]

208. tried to try it

can't seem to log in... do I need to recreate the account or does it use the same database?

[JTFrog]

209. You are not alone.

By far.

:thumbsup:

[madamesilverspurs]

212. Can't answer the question.

Dialup won't let me go there, all I get is a blank white screen.

[Broderick]

213. I hate change

Must be my set in my ways at this advanced age.

[GeorgeGist]

215. Status quodians ...

never make good progressives. Just saying.

[meow mix]

216. i like this DU, and not the new one. also

not alone at all lol

[L0oniX]

217. Violation of common sense ...don't fix what ain't broke.

[WheelWalker]

218. I'm just a Bozo on this bus.

[sarcasmo]

220. Kick!

[madmax]

223. When I was seeing a shrink years ago he said,

I'm extremely sensitive to change. Plus, I'm a computer dolt. Anything, anything at all about computers, does not compute in my mental HD. I dunno why, it just is. lol

[relayerbob]

226. Don't like it either

Looks like a step into the 1990s to me, major step backward - I suppose so people can see it on primitive 4" displays. I consider pandering to portables as stupid (surfing the web on my "smart" phone is just unpleasant, as far as I'm concerned - convenient, but not much fun), set the site up to look at the OS and adjust accordingly, don't force everyone, incliding 22" widescreens to look at such a small amount of content. Organization is poor also - need to look all around and open new links to see what I now see in one place.

[PotatoChip]

227. I can't get on it. "Username PotatoChip does not exist"

I first tried last night and got this message. Thought it might just be a glitch or maybe I typed my password wrong. Didn't have time to deal w/it then, but tried again today and got the same thing. :-( No one else seems to be having this problem.

Is it just me? I've never been 'in trouble' before... no deleted OPs or even posts- well once or twice was in a deleted sub-thread, but that was it (I swear)!!! I'm not a troll or astroturfer either (again, honest-to-gawd)!!! I've never got a warning or anything like that. Not even any sort of unpleasant interaction w/other members.

Am I not popular or good-looking enough? Is it because I'm a greasy ole potato chip? :cry: Is it because I don't have a star (yet)... I planned to donate on DU3.

What should I do guys? Contact a moderator, or go to ATA?


Username Does Not Exist

The username you entered (PotatoChip) does not exist.

Try logging in again.

I don't remember my username.

I would like to create a new account with the username PotatoChip.


BTW- My apologies to the OP for getting off-track here.

Edited to add: I tried what the message said to do (create a new account w/my current username) and that didn't work either. Am I officially being ditched? :shrug:

[Iggo]

229. IIRC, only users who registered before a certain date...

...I think it's January something of 2011, can log into the DU3 Preview(s).

Once it's up and going for reals, everybody's in.

[PotatoChip]

230. OK thanks Iggo!

I was unaware of that. Whew! I feel much better now. :hi:

[colsohlibgal]

231. Nada

As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. There is a reason this is my favorite progressive hangout and that is because of the format, it's simple and easy to get to where I want to go.

[bengalherder]

235. Don't care for the look and feel either

I come here for the mainpage, the 'at-a-glance' view.

I was hoping the editing system might be more forgiving, other sites give you a couple of minutes and two or three attempts to get it right before notifying everyone the post has been edited which is nice for us sloppy typists. A stricter edit system doesn't thrill me.

I certainly don't need to see who has ignored me. I try very hard not to be totally offensive, but I'm sure some don't care for me. As someone who has been bullied before in younger years, I really don't need to have the knowledge that so-an-so hates me. It smacks of high-school cliquery. And the jury thing. The damn unrec buttons are bad enough for abuse around here, just remember that sweeping away and locking all speech others find 'controversial' might have unintended consequences.

And frankly I don't give a good goddamn about whether web sites can be seen on phones. My fellow employees spend too much time surfing the internet during working hours as it is. Changing the world (especially one that ain't broken)to make it easier for them only makes the problem worse.

We'll see how it goes, but I think DU is throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.

[Awsi Dooger]

276. I hate the editing switch

Often I post in the wee hours. Careless typos are common, along with overboard phrasing if it's been a bad day. I'm a sports bettor so highs and lows are part of the game. Very frequently I'll quickly realize I didn't need to be that blunt or condemning, so I'll zap or soften that section.

Under the new policy with edits available I can only imagine the inevitable problems and distractions. Somebody will check an edit and make reference to it, putting the initial poster on the defensive while others have no idea what is being referred to unless they look at the prior version themselves.

The previous DU switch made an improvement to editing. When I joined DU every time you edited the red line appeared saying, "post last edited at..." It was hilarious to see certain posters with 6 or 7 stacked edits. But they'd get ribbed for it and sometimes embarrassed. I have very seldom edited more than twice but I really appreciated it when that red line dropped to only one appearance, with the time of the most recent edit.

I agree there should be a grace period of a few minutes, with no indication of an edit, like other sites I frequent.

[defendandprotect]

316. But ... bigger question is ... "Who would possibly care to see your edicts?" Fanatics?

Why put that much time and energy into such a dumb and fanatical system?

Write a book one day about the most frequent typos?

Makes 0 sense?

As a goal for DU3 and all of this work makes double 0 sense!!



ROFL

[pam4water]

236. Is a better front page coming after the trial is done?

[Douglas Carpenter]

239. I appreciate Skinner,EarlG and Elad and everyone else for trying to improve things..but

I'm sorry - I just don't think it works better than the current format which I find user-friendlier and easier. It must have taken both a lot of time and a lot of expense to set up DU3. But I simply prefer the current system and find it more inviting for new users.

[matt819]

246. I have to agree

You can see how much was involved in the redesign. It's a pretty massive overhaul. But I just can't get comfortable using.

[defendandprotect]

317. Agree -- and it's a HUGE DISTRACTION from OWS and things we need to be looking at right now -- !!

[mojowork_n]

240. Too Much Wasted Space. That's only good for Mobile Phones.

There really should be two versions, a slimmed-down mobile app interface,
along with a full-screen option for the rest of us.

I don't see why a minority of high-rent, latest-Droid or iPhone hipsters
should dictate the look and feel of DU. Unless their votes count more,
because that demographic is more attractive to advertisers, or something
like that.

My first impression was really bad. I got out right away. But a second
look suggests that's what's going on.

[snagglepuss]

255. Sadly I think you've nailed it.

:(

[slay]

270. +1

now that you mention it - that does seem to be the case - design that look perdy on the mobile devices but isn't that great for PC's. you can change to a more classic page view in your account settings though. it's not JUST like DU2, but it's ok i guess. :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

318. Maybe it's more about advertisements?

[mojowork_n]

330. I don't know. I'm really just guessing, but ads are part of the equation.

Also, maybe, formatting the ads to fit the newest generations of droids and iPhones,
and the quad-core phones that will be like desktops in your pocket. Those are supposed
to be coming out in a few months.

I still have a no-contract, voice and txt message only phone, myself, but I've been
doing some research. CREDO -- the phone carrier I'd like to sign up with -- has only
one drawback. No "tethering."

.....There are still a lot of gray areas. Phones haven't become computers, yet.

But the software has to adapt, and be ready for upgrades, when that happens.

Personally, I'll miss the look of the classic DU homepage. There's nothing like
it for vast quantities of information, accessible all at once, on one big
homepage.

The look of the phone-friendly pages will be like nuclear winter hitting a
tropical paradise. Lots and lots of snow, with just a few tendrils and shoots
of organic life poking through.

But mostly, lots and lots of White Space. With BIG TABS. Not so many live links.

[truedelphi]

356. Hmm that could very well be the case.

However, the Admins should be aware that right now, they own a site that has gotten some 35K new users in the last eighteen months (My estimate - it might be more new users.)

So if they lose a lot of small rent users, will it be worth it to have made the premium players
happier?

[Fearless]

244. The old one looks less plain. Like DU3 could have been DU1.5.

The interface is less intuitive than DU2 and much more bulky. The tabs and sidebar take up way more space than the icons at the top of DU2. DU2 is a greater departure from the "FreeRepublic" type interface than DU3. Visually it looks more like FreeRepublic in DU3 than DU2. I'm not a big fan of that. And, the color scheme in DU2 is much more pleasing. DU3 looks sterile and lifeless. Also the icons are very bulky and cheap looking.

[ljm2002]

249. I'm a little dubious...

...but willing to try it. It really doesn't seem all that hard to use, just have to get used to where things are. Also according to some posts I've read, you can set the "Classic" option in your profile and see the old format. So I just don't see the transition as a big issue.

There is one thing, though, that really disturbs me: the new DU favicon -- the little thing that appears in the tabs and up in the browser's address bar. The old one, red & black & white, popped. The new one, black and dark gray, just sits up there looking muddled. You can barely make out that it's letters, because the open parts are filled with dark gray, hardly any contrast with the black at all. UUGGHH.

[B Calm]

262. I'm in agreement with you. That said

it's still 150,000,000 times better than freeperville, lol. . .

[slay]

268. No, you are not alone

but the choice to change to DU3 does not appear to be ours. i intend to use the facebook and twitter buttons.... NEVER. but i do like the jury vote on alerted posts idea. Oh well.

[murielm99]

274. I don't like it, either. I may come here less. n/t

[Johnny Noshoes]

283. Well...

Well since it won't even allow me to login I would have to say - NO. I logged out of here just to make sure that wasn't the problem. Apparently it doesn't recognize my perfectly legit email address - go figure.

[robinlynne]

284. I really miss the greatest apge, which is my always go to page. I know you can choose between

different ways of organizing in the new format, but.

[LiberalLovinLug]

290. Nothing is ALL bad

So far

I LIKE:

The jury function. Not only because it will be more democratic (fancy that on DU!), but it makes members feel more a part of the site.

The way threads are layed out organizing replies to a particular post. Here, replies to one post are jumbled up with other posts.

That there is ONLY a REC button and not also an UNREC button. Makes way more sense. The way it is now, I think some members unrec OPs that not only they disagree with, but stories that are sad, or uncomfortable to read.


I DISLIKE:

Any changes to the Front Page. I like others go to the DU home page in the morning to get a good overview of the news and its a starting point. I am a visual person and I love how it is layed out. It is one of the main reasons I stuck with DU. That and the instant posting ability. You are essentially innocent until proven guilty, the opposite of other sites.

The public viewing of your pre-edited versions of posts. WHY?? So grammar snobs can snicker at your foibles? Or someone you called a bad name in anger and quickly went back to clean it up can see what you originally called them? I don't see any point in this.

The big overblown share icons on OPs. I can see the REC button that big, but do we also have to have the Facebook, Twitter, Google buttons cluttering it up? I don't use these. Couldn't they be smaller, more discreet looking?

[Tikki]

295. I'd like any DU...when I found this site my heart lifted....

up to a very high place...it'll work out just fine.


Tikki

[bbgrunt]

311. I dread the change. Seems like a "USA Today" format --

more bells and whistles to attract the eye rather than fostering a real discussion vehicle.

[tblue37]

312. You are not alone. I don't like it at all. nt

[defendandprotect]

321. Good move, Sky Daddy -- !! THIS IS THE TIME to work on these issues ... not later ....

I'd also comment that I think this particular time is a very poor time to

make a change like this --

It's a huge distraction from what's really going on in America -- OWS and the

need for citizens to regain control over our government.

And election times are a time when we need MORE political expression -- more commentary --

and not limits on what can be said!

[in_cog_ni_to]

322. I just left there. Again.

Have you seen who the "HOSTS" of the Soapbox Forum are? HOLY CRAP. I can see them now...clamoring to gain control over their message when the system goes live. They won't be able to "volunteer" fast enough.

I will be FINISHED with DU too when that place goes live. There is absolutely NOTHING I like about it.

Now I have to find a new place to go. Anyone have any ideas? PM me if you do! I'd like to check them out.

[inna]

334. Me too! Looking for a new virtual home. Please PM if anyone has ideas.

[tblue37]

326. Someone said that the DU3 “Most Recommended” page isSomeone said that the DU3 “Most Recommended” pag

the new “Greatest” page, and the person provided a link to it in his/her post, so I went there to view it. But then, after leaving, I decided to go back to it, but when I went to directly DU3, without the link to the “Most Recommended” page that the poster had provided, I was unable to locate a link on the DU3 homepage for the “Most Recommended” page—or anywhere else. Can someone tell me how to find that page from the DU3 homepage?

[in_cog_ni_to]

333. Go to: Home Page>Latest Threads and at the top of the forum you will see tabs (next to the YELLOW

"latest" tab...2 tabs to the right of that). You'll see "MOST REC'd" with a yellow star next to it.

[defendandprotect]

340. GREATEST page is now MOST REC"D page -- ??? hmmmmm......

[in_cog_ni_to]

342. I guess so.

Which means the greatest Page will now be 5000 rec'd "Obama walks on water" threads. :(

[defendandprotect]

343. Presume the "UN-REC's" are going ... ????

[in_cog_ni_to]

351. GONE! Just ask and you shall receive!

If you support the right politician that is. :(

[defendandprotect]

359. Think they were doomed when liberals began

UN'recking threads -- ????

[tblue37]

350. Thanks. nt

[GoneOffShore]

335. Moan, moan, whine, whine.

Things are going to change.

It was time for an upgrade to the cobbled together software of DU(which has served us all well).

Pull your socks up, contribute to discussions and just get on with moaning on and about the new DU.

[whistler162]

341. You have to remember the first rule of websites.....

if it isn't broken break it...

[snagglepuss]

344. LOL You have noooo idea how much I needed that laugh.

:rofl: :hi:



Thanks

[truedelphi]

357. That need to be its own OP.

Just those fifteen words.

And I admit to ROTFL! after reading those words.

[tawadi]

345. From what I've seen

I like DU better than DU3. Primarily because I am not sure this "jury by popularity" is the way to go. One DUer said it will be like junior high. Not good.:-(

[dipsydoodle]

361. The general measure will be the rate at posts occur.

If it transpires to be less than DU2 the whole issue may be self defeating if the advertising revenue drops.

[flamingdem]

367. It feels claustrophobic, this one feels more alive

Though I do see reasons to change I'm afraid I won't take to the design

[highplainsdem]

368. No, you're not alone.

[L0oniX]

380. The DU3 Death Star battle station will be operatonal by 2012.