Believers deem atheists as untrustworthy as rapists

[The Straight Story]

Believers deem atheists as untrustworthy as rapists

VANCOUVER — Religious believers distrust atheists more than members of other religious groups, gays and feminists, according to a new study by University of B.C. researchers.

The only group the study's participants distrusted as much as atheists was rapists, said doctoral student Will Gervais, lead author of the study published online in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

That prejudice had a significant impact on what kinds of jobs people said they would hire atheists to do.

"People are willing to hire an atheist for a job that is perceived as low-trust, for instance as a waitress," said Gervais. "But when hiring for a high-trust job like daycare worker, they were like, nope, not going to hire an atheist for that job."

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Believers+deem+atheists+untrustworthy+rapists+Study/5792265/story.html

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. Fair's fair. I wouldn't hire a fundamentalist to babysit my kids either. n/t

[That1202Anarchist]

63. Atheists are people too...

Atheists are people same as Religious people are as well. We may believe differently but we're all still humans, we have have feelings, emotions and all else that everyone else has. Just because Christians believe in their GOD, and believe if they live up to their 10 commandments they go to a Heaven.. That does not make them any better. Atheists are the same as everyone else.. And on that job part, most jobs and businesses don't require to know your faith, philosophy, belief, or deity at which you practice or don't practice. A matter of fact, that's actually illegal for them to discriminate against race, sex, belief, religion, age ECT.. . And telling someone they cannot work where they are applying due to their religious philosophy, that is DISCRIMINATION..

We are all equal.... No ones better than anyone else!!

[Walk away]

73. An awful lot of Atheists feel VERY superior to "Believers"...

really we do.

[Aerows]

86. I wouldn't say "superior" but so much life experience makes me regard them

with trepidation. Sorry if that makes me a horrible "unbeliever" person, but I don't trust people who preach one thing then turn around and do another. I'd be a fool if I did trust such people.

[Aerows]

85. I wouldn't hire a fundamentalist to babysit my garden, much less my children

and I have plenty of reasons to back that up, and experience with the subject of fundamentalists.

[peace13]

2. I believe that a percentage of believers have no moral compass whatsoever..

and need someone to read them the rules. They can not imagine a human being doing the right thing just because it is the right thing to do. Very sad! This is why they wouldn't trust an 'atheist'.

[Capitalocracy]

13. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

And I think it's trained into them, as well. They're trained to hand over control of their moral compass to a higher authority... one which if they thought about it, they might not always agree with (God's supposed "rules" are egoistic and narcissistic and sadistic beyond belief). But what they hear over and over again in their churches (depending, obviously, on which one they go to) is that morality comes from God, without God there is no morality, and therefore, logically, people who don't follow God just do whatever the hell they feel like, even if it's something horrible.

I bet most people who believe this are immersed in communities where it's unacceptable not to be religious, and therefore there are no open atheists, and therefore they are not knowingly exposed to atheists and have no reason not to believe the worst.

[MattBaggins]

14. Which is why they hate us atheists so

They can not stand the fact that at the end of the day most atheists are more moral then they are.

[Arugula Latte]

18. And they also hate us because they've invested a lot of psychic energy

trying to convince themselves that nonsense is true.

[Odin2005]

20. They are stuck at an inferior stage of moral development.

They are still at the "do it because I said so" stage.

[MattBaggins]

27. It's the kindergarten veiw

I do/don't do X because I will get punished/rewarded.

[scorpiogirl]

25. Exactly! You said it well.

On the flip side, they don't even see that they're only being a good person for some future "reward," and how that looks to us. That's not sincere.

[MattBaggins]

32. They get quite angry if you point out to them

how juvenile it is to only do the "right thing" out of fear. I have had fundy family get angry that I can argue moral decisions on based on their own merits and they can not.

[scorpiogirl]

57. I think it pisses them off that non-believers don't live in fear.

I like that idea, though it makes them unstable. Something about changing their world view is enough to send them over the edge.

[saras]

30. Yes! When I was attempting Christianity, I had Christians tell me this repeatedly

In their own view, THEY were moral upstanding people, and THEY were filled with violent, evil impulses that they could barely control with the help of daily prayer, so how could anyone without their prayer possibly not be evil?

All I could say was "you're right, but only about yourself, and I don't trust prayer to be powerful enough to help you."

[Withywindle]

94. Scary, isn't it?

There are probably a lot of people out there who would do absolutely horrible things to others if their faith ever got shaken. Considering how easy it is to shake faith, there are a lot of ticking time bombs walking around.

[CrispyQ]

67. They believe morality is about what one believes, when it's really about how one behaves.

They miss the point completely & it's why so many of them are heinous pricks.

Sometimes I wish there was a God, so the most hateful of them could be surprised when they're sent to hell.

[redqueen]

68. +1

[Poll_Blind]

3. And all because I don't believe in invisible sky wizards. (sigh) nt

PB

[sinkingfeeling]

4. How would they know since it's against our US laws to ask a job applicant about their

beliefs? Bet they'd be real surprised to learn who are the atheists in their lives.

[riderinthestorm]

9. Oh that's easily gotten around by asking questions like "what church do you go to?"

Or what you like to do on the weekends or if you are free on Sundays to work extra hours, or other theoretically innocuous questions that are really leading questions about religion.

[The Straight Story]

10. I usually hear "What sort of organizations do you belong to?"

And similar questions.

[MattBaggins]

17. NAMBLA, American Satanist Institute, S&M Lovers of America

[Ignis]

91. !

:spray: :thumbsup:

[Marrah_G]

72. Wow I've never been asked that.

ewwww

[Poll_Blind]

36. ^ This

I've run into that more than a few times.

PB

[sinkingfeeling]

37. I never give straight answers to those questions either. I state that where I attend church is

private.

[riderinthestorm]

47. Yes but you answered that you go to church. Most employers don't care WHERE you go but that you go.

A squiggly answer on those types of questions is exactly what they are fishing for - because it indicates a lot about your beliefs.

[sinkingfeeling]

60. Yep, but that's a lie.

[riderinthestorm]

62. Doesn't matter. You essentially told them you go to church.

Whether that's true of not isn't the issue. It's that potential employees are quizzed in subtle and not-so-subtle ways on their faith, and atheists can and will be screened out.

Employers don't ever put that on a job application because they know that's illegal. So they get around it in sneaky ways. It's like age discrimination... employers can't ask you how old you were but they'll note the university you went to (where you wisely didn't list a graduation date), and ask questions about that university - like who was the football coach when you attended, or did you ever take classes with (insert some famous professor's name). They can date you with the fishing questions, very easily, and then you don't get hired because you are too old.

[Poll_Blind]

19. Formally, yes. But I was in a work situation a few years ago where there...

...was (I'm not making this up) a weird clique of evangelical Christians who had dug out this niche for themselves at the company I was working at. They even made it so their cubicles were next to each other. Whereas most people would keep work-related material posted up in their cubes (there was a lot of information to track), these guys had little shrines to Christ going. Now even that wouldn't normally be a big deal, but they (informally, of course) made a habbit of interrogating every single person who moved into or out of their department, about what church they went to, etc.

They had also made sure to get all their wives positions in the company which required less skill, like answering phones and so forth. And they really kept track of who was who, religiously.

The "head" of them was a firewall engineer manager who always dressed in white sweatpants and sweatshirts- really expensive-looking ones which usually had some kind of Christ-centric message or the branding of a Christian university or something like that. And gold jewelry. I wish I could telepathically show you what this guy looked like, it was a hoot.

And he was probably the second-nastiest person I've ever worked with, and I've worked jobs everywhere from Wendy's to Fortune 500 companies- and just about everywhere in-between.

Great part was, being a tech company (and a large one), there were a huge number of gays, lesbians, transgendered and then general weirdos like myself. You could tell how much it grated on them.

Although it needn't have. They were just assholes. Christ would have gotten along, or at least not been so vindictive.

OnEdit: BTW, I actually started at the company working the phone banks and came to know (really well) the "head" (Mr. White Sweats) guy's wife. She wasn't very bright but there was a desperation in her, and a ruthlessness, which I imagined to be the result of years of living with and bearing the children of Mr. White Sweats. She was about 7/8ths mopey beat-down and 1/8 tooth-grittingly mean-spirited. How mean-spirited just blew me away sometimes. And always asking questions about who was up to what and if they went to church or not. She always wanted to know who was up to what so she could make an eyeroll judgement.

PB

[sinkingfeeling]

40. The clique could have been charged with harassment under Title VII if someone had the guts.

[Nevernose]

31. I was investigated at work for being an atheist

I'm a public school teacher. They should have known better. I wasn't even accused of promoting or spreading atheism, merely of being an atheist. I had to get lawyers, union reps. I don't work in some stereotypical podunk Bible Belt town, either -- one of the nation's largest districts, west coast.

My atheism was also brought up in my child custody hearing. I won anyway, but it still irks me that my religious beliefs (or lack thereof) were even brought up. I couldn't picture a judge ever saying, "So, mr. Nevernose, wdoes the fact that you're a Jew (or whatever) have any potentially negative consequences for your daughter's upbringing?"

[sinkingfeeling]

41. I hope you sued the school district.

[Godhumor]

81. At the last school I taught at, I had to be swear an oath at the district office.

They gave me a choice of swearing on the Bible or on the Constitution.

I asked for the Constitution and was told, "Really? Wow, no one ever does that. It might take awhile to find..."

I was then made to wait two hours. Not surprisingly, I left the district after a year.

[lbrtbell]

5. Funny, it's the "believers" that are the most untrustworthy

Just look at the GOP/Tea Party.

[HopeHoops]

6. Athiests and rapists both deem "believers" as untrustworthy.

So it is a net-net situation.

[GoCubsGo]

7. Well, being agnostic, rather than atheist...

I find most believers to be less trustworthy than rapists. I'll take an atheist over a Buybull-thumper any day, I don't care what the job. If I see a business that uses one of those Jeebus fish in its advertisements, I take it as a warning to stay far, far away from them. They're usually the biggest crooks out there.

[MattBaggins]

23. We had one of them in our city.

had a business selling really shitty quality retread tires at what were actually crappy prices given the quality. He thought he could use the lot next to his business to create a mountain of old tires that he had no intention of having properly disposed off. Put up all kinds of signs about his persecution as he went out of business. Blamed it on the "big gubmint" telling him he couldn't have a mountain of a few hundred tires on main street. He actually went out of business for selling crappy tires and pissing people off about them.

[GoCubsGo]

83. A good third of the businesses in my town are like that.

I live about 15 miles from the birthplace of the Southern Baptist Convention. They broke off from the American Baptist church because the ABC OPPOSED slavery. These are their descendants.

[LanternWaste]

8. Seems to be a conclusion shared by those side against the other...

Quite often, it appears to be a collective conclusion shared by both those sides against the other...

However, I do understand that for many people, it's simply easier and far more convenient to distrust those who have a different world-view, regardless of whether that view is predicated on religion, politics, philosophies, or any other wholly man-made construct that resides nowhere but our imaginations...

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. No; "The antipathy does not seem to run both ways, though."

The antipathy does not seem to run both ways, though. Atheists are indifferent to religious belief when it comes to deciding who is trustworthy.

"Atheists don't necessarily favour other atheists over Christians or anyone else," he said. "They seem to think that religion is not an important signal for who you can trust."

Just to get a bit more of the study on to DU before people assume they know what it says...

[LanternWaste]

24. Yes. It does appear so

Yes, it quite often does appear so-- even a response on this thread indicates that a business with a Christian symbol receives no trust from the poster for no other reason than it's owned/run by a person or religion. :shrug:


("Appears" and "is" are two wholly different things)

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. So you're saying you'll ignore the survey results

apart from the bit you believe to be true, in favour of your own limited observation ...

:shrug: yourself.

[MedicalAdmin]

48. In my experience....

those companies that are run by very religious people who DON"T advertise the fact seem to deliver very good value for the money. Those that advertise it seem to be using CHrist as a marketing tool and should be suspect.


Normally I find them to deliver substandard work at huge markups.

[Morning Dew]

58. Here's a head exploder - A Christ Centered Car Dealer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCpotYu7Z-8


I don't know about their business practices buy I chuckle at the idea of a ripoff multiplier at work.

[MedicalAdmin]

78. WTF?

Stuff the tranny with sawdust for JEEEEESUS?

[HappyMe]

11. I have never filled out a job app that

asked about my beliefs.

I also have no idea how many atheists I know, because religious beliefs or atheism doesn't come up in conversation. Whether people are trustworthy or not has nothing to do with religion or atheism.

[Odin2005]

12. Well that explains the anti-athiest vitrol in Religion/Theology.

[Quantess]

15. Where do they find all these nitwits?

It makes me lose faith in humanity.

[pipi_k]

21. Oh, the irony!!!!!!

So they would hire someone of "faith" over an Atheist for daycare work, huh?

My dad was an Atheist. He was one of the most honorable men I've ever known.

My brother in law was, and still is, a Fundy "Christian". He's also a convicted child molester. At least six little girls, two of them his own daughters. And this is the guy those idiots would trust in a daycare setting...


I no words for the stupidity.

[JuniperLea]

22. The feeling is mutual...

In many, many cases.

[riderinthestorm]

26. No actually. There is not an equivalent number of atheists who equate believers with rapists

on a moral scale, or any scale.

Nor are atheists pontificating on the employment qualifications of believers vs non-believers.

This equivalency bullshit with atheists just isn't true.

[Arugula Latte]

29. Oh, and also there are many "militant" atheists!

We're told that by several DUers, so it must be true!

:eyes:

[Bigmack]

46. Actually, I'm getting more "militant" all the time.....

the more Fundie/Christian our society gets, the more militant I feel.

"Religion is like a penis. It's OK to be proud of it, but don't whip it out in public, and certainly don't try to jam it down my - or my kids' - throat."

[LanternWaste]

33. There is indeed a post on this very thread which

"Nor are atheists pontificating on the employment qualifications of believers vs non-believers...."

There is indeed a post on this very thread which implies denial of using a business services for no reason other than the owner being a person of religion.

[riderinthestorm]

44. One person on a thread of more than 40 replies so far? That's anecdotal and not supported by the

study listed in the OP.

Most of us have no choice but to patronize and employ and quietly work alongside believers. We are a minority and typically a very silent one at that.

The small number of atheists who may not patronize a business with prominent religious iconography displayed is FAR outweighed by the number of believers who would stop patronizing businesses that prominently proclaimed that they were owned by an atheist.

[sinkingfeeling]

50. Not sure I agree. There is a post that one would not use services of a person that

finds it necessary to publicly identify himself as a 'believer'. If a business is not directly associated with religion, than why the symbols? I won't use their services not because they are religious but because they have to have it in public view. I find it offensive.

[callous taoboy]

59. You hit the nail on the head. It is offensive, and I'd bet some x-tians find it offensive as well.

[MedicalAdmin]

52. Where?

I didn't see that?

[riderinthestorm]

54. Post #7. However, I agree that that post doesn't explicitly say they don't patronize that

business because they are run by believers, or because the business/advertising model is trying to tie itself to church and the presumed "honesty" of the business.

I believe the more common reason people avoid a business with prominent religious iconography is because in their experience that business is usually trying to cover up bad business practices with a veneer of "church".

[MedicalAdmin]

79. Thanks - I thought I was losing the ability to read.

Whew!

[CrispyQ]

75. I'm not a believer & here's my take on businesses that use the fish or cross in their marketing.

If a business comes recommended to me by someone I trust, I'll go there, fish or no fish.

But if I'm searching for a business on my own & there is a fish in the ad, I'll skip over it. I may come back to that business, but initially, I'll search for someone else. Why? Because like someone up above posted, it seems to be using Jesus as a marketing tool. I was raised in a Christian environment & I know a fair bit about the teachings of Jesus & using his name as a marketing tool isn't cool. It comes across as insincere.

[Lance_Boyle]

76. no, you read/are reading it wrong.

The owner can be as religious as s/he wants to be. But to use that as advertising? Even Supply Side Jesus would weep. And any right-minded person would do well to steer clear of that business, unless it's a church. That sort of advertising is equivalent to a sign on the door of a mafia hangout reading "Legitimate Businessman's Club."

[hifiguy]

88. Ohh, that was gooood.

That sort of advertising is equivalent to a sign on the door of a mafia hangout reading "Legitimate Businessman's Club."

:spray::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[backscatter712]

64. Nevertheless, these days, I'd think twice before leaving my kids with a Catholic priest... n/t

[JuniperLea]

80. hold your horses...

i see your anger, but your response to what i said makes less sense than fish going to school on bicycles.

i never said anything about comparisons of numbers.

i merely stated... no, fuck it... you go back and read again if you're interested in how foolish your response is.

[Fuzz]

28. Yup. Seen it first hand.

[Greybnk48]

35. That's because they know what they themselves are

capable of, even with the threat of hell and they just assume that non-believers would be worse (when they may be less sociopathic in the end). I'm painting with a broad brush as tit-for-tat.

I would not have let a fundamentalist Christian watch my kids, even in an emergency.

[RegieRocker]

38. By an aetheist, for atheists about how bad non atheists are.

Lol well what would you expect? This is worthless.

[riderinthestorm]

55. Could you provide a link that says the study's authors are atheists?

I didn't see that published anywhere.

Thanks.

[RegieRocker]

93. Hmmm did you ask the question "link for the study"?

Since there wasn't a link to the study and I had to do some sluething to find the truth to the gross bias to the reporting on the study and the study itself.

[hifiguy]

39. These "believers" are totally fucked in the head.

Not to mention morally and ethically bankrupt. I believe it was Thomas Paine who said that arguing with those who have abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead. And these idjits are about as brain-dead as it is possible to be while still drawing breath. :grr::nuke:

[raccoon]

51. Great quote!

"I believe it was Thomas Paine who said that arguing with those who have abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead."

[Quartermass]

42. When they say atheism is a faith...

Just think of it like this:

Faith is the belief in the existence of a supernatural being that is a higher power than themselves.

Therefore if atheism is a faith, that means we're a supernatural being that is a higher power than the believers.

Atheism is not a faith. It is simply a lack of belief.

And therein lies the problem of all arguments used by theists. Because when they argue that a lack of belief in something is not acceptable or has no credibility, then you can substitute anything that a person would have (such as Santa Clause), then that means a lack of belief in that must lose credibility and therefore atheism has no credibility and therefore faith wins out.

But here's the thing, using that method you can substitute Evolution for atheism and turn that argument of theirs back and therefore Evolutions wins!

:evilgrin:

[raccoon]

43. Like OF COURSE a rapist couldn't be a believer? LOL.

What dumbasses.

[dtexdem]

45. Incompetent headline: it suggests that believers only trust religious rapists.

Well, that might explain why Herman Cain still hasn't had to drop out of the GOP circus. ;-)

[raccoon]

49. "If you believe your behaviour is being watched (by God) you are going to be on your best behaviour,

said Gervais. "But that wouldn't apply for an atheist. That would allow people to use religious belief as a signal for how trustworthy a person is."

You mean like Jimmy Swaggart and others of his ilk are on their best behavior when
they're committing adultery? Or living high on the hog while pretending to be so religious,
and taking people's money?

[bowens43]

53. believers are such idiots................

we really need to be discouraging religion not promoting religious freedom.

[RebelOne]

56. You want to see idiots, go to RaptureReady.com.

Those people raise my blood pressure.

[MicaelS]

61. The amusing thing is in tolerant secular Canada.....

But even in more secular Canada, distrust of atheists ran high.

"We see consistently strong effects," he said. "Even here in Vancouver, our student participants still say atheists are really untrustworthy."

[LAGC]

65. Haters keep on hatin'.

[freshwest]

66. One who disputes that: 'Religious do not have monopoly on virtue, Queen tells synod'

Religious do not have monopoly on virtue, Queen tells synod

People of faith do not have a monopoly on virtue as British society was now "more diverse and secular", the Queen told the Church of England today in an address to its governing body.

Speaking at Church House, central London, she told members of General Synod that believers and atheists were equally able to contribute to the prosperity and wellbeing of the country.

The Queen, who is supreme governor of the Church of England, said: "In our more diverse and secular society, the place of religion has come to be a matter of lively discussion. It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue and that the wellbeing and prosperity of the nation depend on the contribution of individuals and groups of all faiths and none."

But, recalling the words of Pope Benedict XVI from his UK visit last September, she said churches "and the other great faith traditions" retained the potential to inspire "great enthusiasm, loyalty and a concern for the common good."

Around 480 clergy, laity and bishops are gathered in central London to debate and vote on issues and policies affecting the life of the church.

At times the meetings stray from the Church of England stereotype of sandal-wearing niceties, descending into acrimony and outright hostility, especially over contentious issues such as women bishops.

Around 50 traditionalist clergy and five bishops have announced their intention to convert to Roman Catholicism, following a Vatican initiative, because they are unhappy with the level of protection from female ministry offered in the draft legislation that permits the ordination of female bishops.

The Queen referred to this tension in her address, saying synod had "many issues to resolve" in order to remain "equipped for the effective pursuit of its mission and ministry", but that this difficulty might in fact revitalise the church.

"Some will no doubt involve difficult, even painful, choices. But Christian history suggests that times of growth and spiritual vigour have often coincided with periods of challenge and testing."

She made no mention of the royal wedding, which will be held at Westminster Abbey, the location of that morning's eucharist, but the subject was very much at the forefront of everyone's mind, not least because of the suspension of a Church of England bishop and synod member who made disparaging remarks about Prince William and Kate Middleton's engagement on his Facebook page.

Pete Broadbent, a suffragan in Willesden, said there ought to be a party in Calais "for all good republicans" to avoid the "nauseating tosh" surrounding the royal wedding. After criticizing royalty for a history of broken marriages and a "corrupt and sexist" hereditary principle, he then went on to attack the "gutter press" for "persecuting" the royal family.

Yesterday Broadbent apologised for his remarks, calling them "deeply offensive". But it was too late and his diocesan superior, the bishop of London, asked him to withdraw from public ministry until further notice.

The public outcry – from clergy and politicians alike – over the Facebook posts may have prompted the archbishop of Canterbury to tell the Queen, to prolonged applause, that he spoke "on behalf of everyone here" in "expressing our delight" at the "family news announced last week".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/23/queen-synod-virtue

Some committed believers I know who married into families of atheists say they are among the moral, trustworthy and generous people they know. Live and let live, and shun the fanatics.

Vote against them, too. Our nation is best served by staying secular instead of allowing those who promote theocracy and oppression. Those are anti-American ideas, no matter who is pushing them.

[Walk away]

69. I worked in retail operations for years and I (informally) discovered that I hired less christians.

The business I worked for was a seven day a week operation. I required that anyone who worked for me be available weekends. I honestly didn't mean to hire so many fellow Atheists but all my crews were smart, cool and really funny. Also, work place theft went down considerably.

No one ever called me on it.

[Marrah_G]

70. Considering I believe most of what they believe is fucking rediculous....

That sounds about right.

[B Calm]

71. As a non believer, I deem believers as whacked out child molesting fruit cakes!

[Snotcicles]

74. I wonder if they hang out with as many Atheists as they do Rapists. nt

[Downwinder]

77. When I opened a printing shop, I was advised to never

take a check from a preacher.

[krabigirl]

82. why do people care so much what other people believe?

They must be insecure in their own beliefs.

[GoCubsGo]

84. You just answered your own question.

[Aerows]

87. If Fundamentalist Christians are upset

They need to take a leaf out of the book of Jesus. Get the log out of your own eye, before you start yelling about the mote in your neighbor's eye.

It's NOT a coincidence that there is so much pedophilia among the ultra-religious - they are authoritarians, and raise their children to believe that authority is right no matter what. Gee, what could go wrong with raising people to believe that authority is always righteous and worthy, while everyone else is an unworthy sinner?

[Vinca]

89. Mind boggling. As an atheist I look at people like that and

thank my lucky stars(as certain as their God)that I'm a sane person who probably follows the teachings of Jesus closer than they do.

[Ezlivin]

90. As a very proud ex-believer

I will gladly accept their opprobrium for the truth I've gained.

The dozens of "friends" I had "gained" from my years in the ministry disappeared like tears in the rain.

[backscatter712]

92. And I distrust fundies and Catholic priests as much as I do rapists...

because often, they're one and the same.