What are O "haters" angry about? Another "list" to ponder...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

Obama Administration: US Forces Can Assassinate Americans
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/9/obama_administration_us_forces_can_assassinate

NYT: Obama Administration Pressuring NY AG To Accept Bank Settlement Instead Of Prosecuting
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/nyt-obama-administration-pressuring-n

Feds threaten crackdown if medical-pot makeover becomes law
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014777869_medpot15m.html

White House visitor logs riddled with holes
http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/04/13/4115/white-house-visitor-logs-riddled-holes

Obama's John Yoo Moment-- Cherry Picking Lawyers
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Obama-s-John-Yoo-Moment--by-Rob-Kall-110619-829.html

Activists cry foul over FBI probe - The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/activists-cry-foul-over-fbi-probe/2011/06/09/AGPRskTH_print.html

Emails Show White House Promotes Genetically Engineered Crops in Wildlife Refuges |
http://www.truth-out.org/emails-show-white-house-promotes-ge-crops-wildlife-refuges/1311621066

Dems: Obama Broke Pledge to Force Banks to Help Homeowners
http://www.propublica.org/article/dems-obama-broke-pledge-to-force-banks-to-help-homeowners

Among Obama's tough budget cuts: money to help needy pay for heat
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0210/Among-Obama-s-tough-budget-cuts-money-to-help-needy-pay-for-heat

Labor unions uneasy as OSHA withdraws proposed rules
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/141121-labor-uneasy-as-osha-withdraws-proposed-rules

Justice Department seeks to have all web surfing tracked
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/25/justice-department-web-surfing-tracked/

Treasury Blocks Legal Aid for Homeowners Facing Foreclosure | The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/blog/156973/treasury-blocks-legal-aid-homeowners-facing-foreclosure

US to lift ban on new cases for Guantanamo detainees
http://articles.boston.com/2011-01-20/news/29343360_1_commission-trials-guantanamo-detainees-military-commissions

Obama administration keeps new policy on Miranda secret
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/01/19/obama_holder_doj_miranda

Drug Makers Win Administration Support in Price Dispute
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/politics/10drug.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=The+Administration+has+told+the+Supreme+Court+that+the+hospitals&st=nyt

Counterinsurgency Outsourcing: America's New Mercenaries in Afghanistan, Middle East, Africa
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/12/15/counterinsurgency-outsourcing-americas-new-mercenaries-in-afghanistan-middle-east-africa.html?cid=hp%253Amainpromo2

Obama administration readies indefinite detention order for Guantanamo detainees
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/21/AR2010122104598.html?hpid=topnews

War Room: Contrary to public statements, Obama admin fueled conflict in Yemen
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/09/obama_yemen_saudi_houthi_conflict

A Reversal on End-of-Life Planning Under Medicare
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/health/policy/05health.html?_r=4&hp

Obama and GOPers Worked Together to Kill Bush Torture Probe
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable-obama-quashed-torture-investigation

U.S. drops demand for Israeli settlement freeze
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40554057/ns/world_news-mideast/n_africa/

Big Polluters Freed from Environmental Oversight by Stimulus
http://www.iwatchnews.org/2010/11/29/2289/big-polluters-freed-environmental-oversight-stimulus

Obama waiver allows U.S. aid to 4 countries using child soldiers
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/27/AR2010102707157.html

The Deal with the Hospital Industry to Kill the Public Option
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/10/05/the-deal-with-the-hospital-industry-to-kill-the-public-option/

Blackwater Wins Piece of $10 Billion Mercenary Deal
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/exclusive-blackwater-wins-piece-of-10-billion-merc-deal/

Obama invokes 'state secrets' claim to dismiss suit against targeting of U.S. citizen al-Aulaqi
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/25/AR2010092500560.html

Despite Fresh Rhetoric About Saving U.S. Manufacturing, Obama Is Quietly Pushing Failed Bush Trade Policies
http://www.alternet.org/economy/147957/despite_fresh_rhetoric_about_saving_u.s._manufacturing,_obama_is_quietly_pushing_failed_bush_trade_policies

Administration backs utilities in climate case
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082606724.html

DOJ gags scientists studying BP disaster.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/08/10/112945/scientists-bp-gag/

US Still Holds Detainee Pentagon Wanted Freed in 2004
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/08/18-2

Banks to benefit most from White House program to help fight foreclosures
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/banking-financial-institutions/114349-banks-to-benefit-most-from-white-house-program-to-stave-off-foreclosures

White House proposal would ease FBI access to records of Internet activity
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/28/AR2010072806141.html

White House Mulling Business Group's Regulatory Hit List
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/white-house-mulling-busin_n_648209.html

Obama Hires Fmr. Wellpoint Exec to Implement Health Care Law
http://www.openleft.com/diary/19449/obama-hires-fmr-wellpoint-exec-to-implement-health-care-law

Obama - Scientists expected Obama administration to be friendlier - Los Angeles Times
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/10/nation/la-na-science-obama-20100711

Across From White House, Coffee With Lobbyists
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/25/us/politics/25caribou.html

Administration Hardens Stance Against Leaks to Press - NYTimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/12/us/politics/12leak.html

U.S. Is Said to Expand Secret Actions in Mideast
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/world/25military.html

Obama administration backs private twist to public housing
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/13/AR2010071305644.html

Lawsuit to Challenge Salazar's Wholesale Disregard of Marine Mammal Protection Laws in Gulf of Mexic
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/05/14-1

NOAA Warned Interior It Was Underestimating Threat Of Serious Spill
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/03/noaa-warned-interior-was_n_561615.html

Feds on GMO Labeling: Don't Tell, Don't Ask - Barry Estabrook
http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2010/04/feds-on-gmo-labeling-dont-tell-dont-ask/39452/

New rules on terror custody being drafted
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/15/nation/la-na-obama-detention16-2010apr16

Afghans 'abused at secret prison' at Bagram airbase
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8621973.stm

Obama administration backs telecom immunity
http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-02-27/bay-area/17190307_1_obama-s-justice-department-wiretap-program-immunity

Obama Packs Debt Commission with Social Security Looters
http://www.alternet.org/story/146183/obama_packs_debt_commission_with_social_security_looters?page=entire

Pesticide Lobbyist Gets Posted as Chief Agricultural Negotiator |
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/03/30-9

Environmentalists Blast Obama Mining Reversal
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/02/national/main6358626.shtml

More Obama DOJ attacks on whistle-blowers
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/29/risen

Obama's Sudden, Senseless Assault on Medical Marijuana
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-morgan/obama-medical-marijuana_b_857852.html

...and those are just the ones I had bookmarked.

And please note this: I did not Support Hillary Clinton, I don't hate him because he is the first African-American president, nor am I a GOPer plant. I dislike the man's policies, and I -- like many here and across the coutry -- have legititmate reasons to do so.

[Vincardog]

1. I too hate the man's policies but that does not make me a hater no more that it makes me a DEMOCRAT

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nashville_brook]

50. +1

[elocs]

133. The term "hater" gets tossed out pretty casually here at DU.

Reminds me of the primaries in 2008 when if you didn't agree with Hillary that made you a "Hillary-hater".

Hating hurts the hater, not the object of the hate, so it really is a counter productive emotion.

[Major Hogwash]

233. Not so much.

The 2008 primaries demonstrated here why Hillary couldn't win -- that one dude that kept bumping his Donnie McClurkin thread for 5 months straight was totally useless against the reality that existed outside of the DU bubble.

[rucky]

240. It's a lazy way to discredit all arguments from a person or group.

in the same way "cheerleader" is used by the "haters"

It usually just makes the person who uses it look stupid.

[PatrynXX]

155. suppose I could compare this to apple vs pc

I don't hate apple, the pc vs apple or apple vs pc is usually a playful fight. So no I'd stick with Obam to the end. He's been very effective now why would I punish him for that?

[joeybee12]

2. I'll add another...the witch hunt against the "polar bear" scientist...knr

[Hell Hath No Fury]

4. I haven't heard that one --

can you expand on it?

[joeybee12]

56. The government scientists who a few years back wrote about polar bears drowning...

and sighting them which indicated the ice was melting (they were drowning because they swim from ice break to ice break to search for food) became sort of a symbol for the havoc of global warming...anyway, a month ago he was put on leave with pay while they "investigated" whether he used flawed data over this..his coworkers raised a stink saying it was obviously pressure from the oil companies because they are trying to open new areas for drilling...the guy was reinstated yesterday after this witch hunt which couldn't find any wrongdoing because it was, after all, just a witch hunt.

[Autumn]

125. He was reinstated? That is so wonderful

I missed that.

[MsPithy]

159. You "missed that," because the reinstatement will get no coverage at all!

The corporate media - the oil companies- need to obliterate the science of polar bear habitat destruction. The "reinstatement" will be on page 23.

[Beacool]

145. I didn't know that.

It's a disgrace that he was suspended, but I'm glad that at least he was reinstated.

:(

[Hell Hath No Fury]

241. Wow, that had slipped past me --

glad to hear about the reinstatement, we need scientists who are willing to feralessly call it like it is.

[Donnachaidh]

3. recced to zero. Must be something up with this. n/t

[Desertrose]

5. Rec'd to +1...but will it last?

[mistertrickster]

209. Yup, you gotta get it past the two dozen or so Obama-bots and then the hits just keep coming.

The tiny minority can only defend their guy so long . . .

[Bluebear]

237. +288!

[Bobbie Jo]

107. LOL...Now don't you feel silly? nt

[Scurrilous]

147. LOL

Yes, there must be something up.

[Number23]

158. As if the web site that had "I don't mind if Rick Perry blows up America" on the front page

with over 300 recs would oppose this? :eyes: This is right up the same tired alley as that other stupid OP and will probably get the same number of recs from the clueless.

As of right now, it's gotten 85 unrecs.

[SwampG8r]

160. how do you know that?

how do you know how many unrecs it has? when i hit rec or unrec all i ever see is my vote is plus or minus 1
just curious
is this something in the settings or what?
i dont get the total either up or down

[cui bono]

221. He knows how many people are on the payroll to post here

and support a DINO who is ruining our country instead of fighting for it.

[SwampG8r]

234. i was serious i dont see any of those numbers

is there a way to see them?

[bvar22]

218. WOWl. I missed that.

"I don't mind if Rick Perry blows up America" on the Front Page.

Please post a link.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Life Long Dem]

213. Yeah...

They forgot to add that Obama used the word "bitter" as in calling voters bitter. But this was in the primary so maybe that's why this wasn't in the list.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Well played. K&R

[amyrose2712]

7. Recced from 3 to 2

[Parker CA]

8. Rec'd to 8, now down to 7. nt

[treestar]

9. This list should get as much sneering as the positive list does

Negative people never see the choice they have. They just choose to carp and whine and see what is wrong and expect others to fix it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. Once again, someone who chooses to --

NOT address the very specific issues I raised, but instead throws out an insult. :eyes:

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

138. Insult?

[LooseWilly]

236. "They just choose to carp and whine..."

"... and see what is wrong and expect others to fix it."

This is an accusation of inaction with a connotation of laziness/incompetence and ineffectuality which also carries the suggestion that one is too puerile and immature (children whine) to actually take action (adults solve problems).

Saying that a poster is immature and incapable of behaving in an adult-like fashion... rather than actually addressing even a single one of the dozens of criticisms of Obama's policy actions... is throwing an insult rather than addressing the points made in the OP.

Is that sufficient explanation for you?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

242. You did that so much better than I could have. :)

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Non responsive insults and snarking, so impressive

And I note that you are among the crowd that does the same thing to those who are actively trying to fix particular issues, such as marriage equality. The President opposes us, and we counter his faith based quakery only to be chided and bullied for the trouble. They whine if we work for results, they whine if we don't, they whine about others all the time, without ever bothering to advocate a position. I've read dozens of your posts, and I have no idea what you stand for. You claim to 'support' Obama by being snide to those who are not 'supporting him' as you see fit, and nothing more. When he leaves office, what will you post about? Who knows? Not those who read the smirk and scoff of your work here.
And in closing, it is fine with you that the President is opposed to equal rights for all, it is not fine with me. Y'all stand with the Bachmanns and Palins and McClurkins and Warrens. I don't. Sorry if that cheeses off your delicate sensibilities.

[Bluebear]

88. I had to peek to see who ignored is

Vile.

[Bobbie Jo]

211. Who cares?

[SwampG8r]

165. i am starting to really like you

not like like , but like
you have given your position a lot of thought and i appreciate your posts
i am swearing of all evil lesser or greater
see my sig line lol
keep it up i would miss your posts

[Hell Hath No Fury]

243. It is not fine with me that O --

does not support equal marriage right for all. :mad: That should have been an addition to the OP, I am sorry I forgot that.

[rms013]

52. Don't you have to define IT before you fix it?

[rhett o rick]

102. Why do you refuse to tell us what policies you support??? Are you embarassed? nm

[Number23]

121. You're absolutely right. "Teh List" is ridiculously maligned for proposed changes

But apparently "proposed changes" is more than enough to castigate him.

"President Obama will propose cutting in half the budget for the program, which helps people pay their heating and cooling bills." http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0210/Among-Obama-s-tough-budget-cuts-money-to-help-needy-pay-for-heat

Some of the OPs links don't even work. But that won't stop the kicking and recing, I guess.

He's also to blamed apparently for Blackwater - "Blackwater Wins Piece of $10 Billion Mercenary Deal
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/exclusive-black... / which is just stupid.

I only clicked on a few things. Some of the complaints are interesting/valid. Some are stupid as hell.

Some, like this one: "Lawsuit to Challenge Salazar's Wholesale Disregard of Marine Mammal Protection Laws in Gulf of Mexic
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/05/14-1"

are obvious scraping of the barrel foolishness in order to keep the outrage going.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

244. Yes, proposals DO count --

it speaks to intent. A Democratic President who proposals cutting SS and/or Medicare says a LOT about their intentions and their willingness to go against traditional, modern Democratic principles. As for dead links, I will happily update those -- a dead link doesn't mean it never happened.

Blackwater specifically -- his administration gave them new security contracts, even after they had been repeatedly been accused of murder, even after it was shown they had been embezzling funds, even after it was clear they were acting criminally in a variety of ways. So it's OK with you that our tax dollars continue to go to such an organization??

[SwampG8r]

162. we voted fo rsomeone to "fix" the things on the list in the OP

in the 2008 election
he has chosen for the most part to not do these things

[treestar]

169. FFS

No President can "fix things" like that. You want a benign dictator. You'll never get one in this country. Fortunately.

[cui bono]

224. An actual attempt, however slight, would be a vast improvement over complete

capitulation to the extreme right wing who are acting like thugs.

You need to get some perspective and stop playing victim. If you believe you are helpless, you will be. That is the most destructive thing going on with so-called Dems at this time. Giving Obama a pass and pretending he couldn't have done any better and acting helpless to change things. Nothing will get better until you hold him accountable and stop the excuses. He hasn't even tried ffs. But then I no longer believe he ever wanted or meant to. No one who really wants something gives up and gives in so often and so early in the game.

If you are really a Dem who believes in the party's platform you need to fight for it and not allow this playing victim to keep you from believing anything can be done at this time.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

245. He is the Leader of the country and the Democratic Party.

He sure as HELL can help "fix things" - he can start by leading. He has every opportunity to push for strong, Democratic solutions to problems. In every speech, at every Town Hall, in every weekly radio address, in every press conference -- he has the chance to make the case, to convince the People of the superiority of Democratic solutions to our problems. He can use the DNC, and the Congressional election orgs to put down the hammer and get recalcitrant Dems in line. He can dump this bi-partisan bullshit and start laying blame on the GOPers doorstep.

Imagine if he had gone to the People with a "Medicare for All" plan instead of his bullshit health insurance reform bill. If he has spent time educating them, involving them, showing them just how much it could improve their lives and why it was the right thing to do for the Country. And when the GOPers put up a stink, lay it RIGHT at their feet -- the GOPers are the bad guys, the ones who don't want you to have a better life, the ones who are actively working against the American People and what will make our Country stronger. Weild it like a hammer and beat the crap out of them at every opportunity. When Americans see someone fighting for them, they respond -- that is how the modern Democratic Party made its bones. Amd if it wasn't passed the first go around? Make the GOPers wear it around their necks during the midterms -- every Dem across the country could have run on that single issue -- I want a better life for you, my GOPer opponent wants you and your family sick and uninsured.

If only.

[rhett o rick]

204. Which policies do you support or are you ashamed to tell us? nm

[cui bono]

222. Criticism is not whining and it is exactly the way to change things in a representative govt.

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

229. Indeed.

[Amonester]

10. Would you take the time to propose alternatives for each one?

Generally, that's where the hard part begins.

[nashville_brook]

49. generally, that's what we elect Democrats to do

[Pooka Fey]

194. Oh SNAP! Excellent riposte! n/t

[Confusious]

85. Shouldn't you already know the alternative for each one

Rather then have someone else tell you?

[Amonester]

86. No, That's exactly why many here should be able to examine...

the propositions, and see what can be done about it, and if they want to participate, or contribute, or write, or call, etc.

How's ranting to no end to the choir, often scoffing at who we disagree with has been working so far?

Not that much. What else could we do?

[Divernan]

98. If progressive ranting wasn't turning public opinion against Obama you wouldn't be here, would you?

[Amonester]

104. No. I'd be here. I like it here.

And I can't wait for Oct. 6 to see if I can contribute in constructive ways to this action: http//www.october2011.org

I'll also say this again: I'll trust Obama to say NO to any potential letter that would ask him to invade Iran, like Bill Clinton did in his second term, when he received the cheney/rumsfeld crap about Iraq.

I never played political "russian-roulette" and I don't intend to until the end.

[RaleighNCDUer]

172. I would also trust him to say no to war on Iran.

Iran is BIG. With a population of 73 million, it is larger than Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

Now Yemen, on the other hand...or Somalia...

[cui bono]

225. Really? You think it's just the ranting and not the policies and capitulation the ranting is about?

Wow. So you think the bearer of bad news is at fault and not the actual bad news (Obama's lackluster job performance) itself?

Obama is turning public opinion against himself by being so weak and not fighting for the people. And for catering to Wall Street and screwing over the people.

Do you also blame journalists for all the bad news in the world since they are the ones pointing it out?

[truedelphi]

174. One thing here, as Glenn Greenwald points out

Obama upheld ‘evisceration of the rule of law for political elites’

That sums it up. You or I forge a check, or steal from an employer and we would get some time in jail (Unless we have some bucks and can get a really good lawyer, like Lindsey Lohan does.)

But Obama's friends have looted NINETEEN TRILLION BUCKS from the system. (Some of this occurred under George W's term, but a lot of it has been under Obama's.) And these rich crooks get second, third, fourth and fifth vacation homes. They arrange for their wives to get a quarter of a million dollars of TARP money to basically "play with." When various Attorney Generals of individual states start to get serious about the malfeasance and criminality of the Executives of the Biggest Banks, as the Attorney Generals of Delaware, New York and the state of Washington have done, those AG's are barred from having any input into the "Commission" that is set up "to deal with the problem."

But of course, the Big Bankers can't be imprisoned, or the Big Banks penalized, as that is unthinkable. Or so those at Obama's Justice Department are saying.

So not only are the Biggest Financial Players Too Big To Fail, they are Too Big to Be Charged with Any Crimes!

[Amonester]

183. I know that, and I read that thread.

The provincial public pension plan here, La Caisse De Dépôt, has been raided of $40 Billion CDN for a pool of about 4 million workers because they bought those AAA-rated worthless CDS paperwaste. The damages have been in reparation for a while now.

Contribute to http://october2011.org/welcome?device=desktop and if you can join in, maybe it could work this time.

On DU only? Not so much, obviously. The administration has a lot on its plate. But if a movement grows to get visibile enough in DC, one which will not pack-up and go home until the demands are met, maybe we'll get a better chance at correcting the wrongs.
Could work fine. Thanks for your support. (I agree with you.)

[truedelphi]

235. Am going to check out the link you provided.

And feel free to PM me to keep me informed. Sometimes I am away from keybaord for a while, so don't be shy if I don't answer a post.

[grahamhgreen]

129. Which one first?

[Amonester]

156. This? (link to downthread)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1819853&mesg_id=1823623

[truedelphi]

170. That "hard part" of finding solutions wouldn't be so difficult if the

Person occupying the WH was working for us and not for the Big Money interests.

But he is working for the Big Corporations. he is working for those he appointed: for Tim Geithner and all Tim Geithner's buddies on Wall Street. he is working for the Big Banks. He is working for Monsanto, which explains the Mike Taylor and Valsick appointments.

I mean, Lawd Almighty, if any individual scammed people in the manner that Bank of America has been doing, regarding its foreclosure protocols and its "robo signers"-- that person would be indicted and then be in jail. So Obama should see to it that Schneiderman is on the Commission overseeing the Big Banks' Malfeasance, and not stand by while That Attorney General is thwarted from bringing about Justice

Right now, I will give support to Schneiderman for President, rather continue to enable the man who has sold us out.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

247. To watch so much criminal activity be willfully ignored -

and so many criminals free from prosecution is truly revolting. Between torture, Wall Street, and banking -- the jails should should be packed. This lack of action guarantees that it will happen again, and, next time, we may not survive. :(

[Bluebear]

272. +

[Hell Hath No Fury]

246. That's actually the EASY part.

The Native Peoples have a principle called the 7th Generation -- all decisions are to be made based on how it impacts the 7th generation. I believe that modern Democratic Party principles have been very much along this lines, be it civil rights, the environment, social safety systems -- they have all been very much about the future.

If we keep with those principles, the solutions become very simple. For example, instead of billions in loan guarantees for nuclear or tax breaks for oil/gas, invest that in alternatives and programs that get American homes/businesses as off the grid as they can with whichever alternative works for their regions. Bernie has the fix for SS, and Medicare should be opened to all. Decriminalize pot (I've never touched the stuff but the war on it is stupid and killing people.) Always move towards sunshine and freedom when it comes to government and civil rights. Jobs? BIG tax increases for those who ship them overseas, tax breaks for those who create them here. Taxes? Drop the Bush tax cuts for starters.

As I said, the solutions are easy. All it take is a Leader with vision, passion, and a willigness to take a strong stand.

[Robb]

12. Perhaps you should update your bookmarks.

I picked (not at random) "Labor unions uneasy as OSHA withdraws proposed rules." To wit:

...On Jan. 19, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) withdrew a proposed reinterpretation that would have strengthened its workplace noise standard. On Tuesday, the agency temporarily withdrew a proposed regulation that would restore a column on employer injury and illness logs to record their workers’ musculoskeletal disorders.

First of all, you should know it's a checkbox that they suggested be on the OSHA 300 logs, and business leaders balked. They balk at everything, but this time they had some reason, since the impact study wasn't in place.

OSHA did the study, and resubmitted the proposed rule in July after a notice of reopening the rulemaking. So it's back in the proposed rules being discussed in October.

Frankly if the rest are this thin, you need a better list.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Did they not withdraw it?

And did they not get a BUTTLOAD of pushback when they did? Yes. Speaks to original intent.

[Robb]

17. Hardly. Perhaps we don't agree on a definition for "buttload."

Or, more likely, your list is poorly vetted.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

22. As someone who works in an industry -

where such reporting is important, I took their withdrawl seriously. So did many others in labor. At the time, a campaign was launched to push back. I am happy that it worked. But this still shows what O was willing to let go of.

[Robb]

27. Obama's OSHA proposes to restore an injury tracking tool Bush took away...

... They bungle the attempt by leaving an easy thing to complain about, they fix the problem in less than six months and propose it again, and you're blaming Obama??

Flimsy. Again, I hope the rest of the list is better.

[Occulus]

132. "I hope the rest of the list is better"

Try the first item.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

32. Exactly! n/t

[Fuddnik]

66. Link?

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uponit7771]

203. AMEN!! They are thin because of them not being policy decisions. It was BUSH who pushed no down pay

...payment home loans, that policy was his not just some shit his admin did admins

[Hell Hath No Fury]

248. Oabam has had every opportunity to change directions --

from prior Bush policies and actions. He made the choice to charge whistleblowers investigated under Bush. He made the choice to back the Banks over the People when the housing bubble collapsed. He made the choice to continue the Bush obsecenity that is GITMO. He made the choice to expand Bush's survellience state. He had the chance to kill the Bush tax cuts.

Sorry, but O is not some helpless victim of W policies.

[classof56]

13. There's a pretty long list of his positive accomplishments, too.

Right now I'm pretty bummed about the Tar Sands pipeline decision, but given the powerful forces at work, oil companies, big corps,etc., I'd say it's difficult to stand firm in the face of those entities. The messages I get from hard core "O" haters are because he's an evil socialist determined to turn our country socialistic. Since I'm guessing they don't know what they're talking about, it's my opinion that their underlying message is, he's black. Considering the GOP field that's emerged so far to run against him, who I'd never vote for, I'd love to see a Dem candidate rise up and run on a platform that meets my every standard. So far that doesn't seem likely, so looks like we'll all have to make our decisions based on what we want our country to look like in the future. Call me cynical, but I doubt there's any Dem who could stand up to the current GOP-run congress. I'm focusing on changing that in the upcoming elections, just to give us a shot at change. Or hope, for that matter.

Blessings.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. "...he's an evil socialist determined to turn our country socialistic."

I wish! :D

On edit: Some of those are unforgiveable coming from ANY president (continued torture/indefinite detention) -- those are things that I cannot turn a blind eye to. :( It will cost my vote.

[Kaleko]

39. "It will cost my vote."

Bravo. When a President keeps caving in on the most fundamental moral principles and sells his humanity to the highest bidders, the people have to take a stand more strongly than ever.

[classof56]

40. Well, that's what they tell me.

Like I said, they don't know what they're talking about. The last forward was in praise of the Washington Times for calling for the president's impeachment 'cause--he's an evil socialist! I suspect Rev. Moon's liking that.

Tired Old Cynic

[certainot]

100. your local RW radio station sold club gitmo t-shirts for limbaugh. where were you?

whatever your state is it's likely that the major limbaugh stations sold club gitmo gear for years and made excuses for torture and NO ONE GOT IN THEUR FACE. that's why it's acceptable in the US- if 1000 coordinated radio stations say it's OK to 50 mil a week and the left just walks by with their ipods in their ears why the fuck shouldn't it be acceptable?

soem of those stations are probably the ones that broadcast sports for the state universities, who therefore endorse the torture apologists and global warming denial and selling us into iraq AND NO ONE STOOD UP AND COMPLAINED!

no one complained to those stations or their local sponsors when they did the groundwork for lying us into iraq either. the left gets headaches when they listen to it so they ignore it and that's why we're in this mess. limbaugh's trophy wall has single payer (clinton health care reform), nbank deregulation, bush, gore, kerry, grayson, 2010 (teabaggers re dittoheads!), and on and on and the left has no fucking clue.

you and many 'progressives' (in quotes cause you might be a troll) blame obama for your own failure to even challenge the right's most important weapon.

there is NO organized challenge to the right's most important weapon, the one that beats obama and all liberals 24/7 and kicks liberal internet ass.

i'll bet most of your list relates to some compromise or trade off that was exacted at that particular time because the left ignores the right's most important weapon and therefore allow the corporate think tanks to create fake made-to-order constituencies (like the original teabaggers) to enable whatever they want.

if you did vote for obama you may have pledged to 'get his back'. well, the left never got his back from the start. they voted, they blogged, and now they're whining.

where were you when team limbaugh was killing clinton health care reform from your local college sports radio station? or selling bush, or the iraq war? or bank deregulation. or swiftboating your candidates?

[neoconn]

150. Well said..

[SharksBreath]

200. Where was Obama. Putting Bush and Cheney on trial.

Everyday on your TV. The Bush torture trials.

Instead Obama wanted to look forward.

If Bush and Cheney are on trail the Right would be defending torture everyday.

That's something I would have liked to see.

Especially when they go to jail for it.

[certainot]

219. sure i'd like to see it too, but that would mean civil war in this country because

they have 1000 of the loudest radio stations in the country getting a free speech free ride to make excuses for bush cheney and to get the teabaggers screaming injustice and even though the GOP has no problems stopping everything to impeach clinton there was/is an economic disaster needing attention, etc. the deck is stacked against liberals getting anything like that done because they control media, and it starts with talk radio. and anyway, like i said, those 1000 unchallenged radio stations already made torture acceptable because the left didn't get in their face when they were excusing it and singing its praises.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

249. "Where were you"?

I'd say, the correct question was, where you? If you didn't notice where the Left was during the Bush years, then you are blind. The Left was attempting to start their own radio voice, Air America -- a network I advertised on. The Left was leading boycotts -- some succcesful, some not so successful -- against advertisors of Rush, Beck, Savage, et al. The Left was out protesting and getting arrested trying to stop an illegal invasion. The Left was out trying to expose the many Bush crimes being ignored by the MSM via the only access they had -- the Internet. The Left was out creating new grassroots groups to counter the rise of the GOP machine.

DU used to be a hotbed of such actions -- there wasn't a day that went by when there wasn't a call for action, either for boycotts, telephone calls, or protests. Today? Not so much -- there's a D in office and suddenly somethings that used to be bad are now OK.

Most of us on the Left are still protesing and boycotting.

[Scurrilous]

19. Dwelling on the positive is frowned upon here. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. "Dwelling on the positive" -

while willfully ignoring serious civil rights violations is repugnant.

[muffin1]

24. I prefer to dwell *in* reality.

[Supersedeas]

59. that's a pretty huge concession and a step away from a health sense of accountability

if everyone were required to "dwell on the positive," we would look much like the cronies who worshipped Bush.

Taking account of both the positive accomplishments and the substantive disappointments without dwelling on either seems like a more reasonable approach.

But then again, there's reason...and then there's mindless cheerleading for one side or the other.

[hfojvt]

71. not really, let me give you an example

I once worked on setting up for an Irish Stew dinner. This required the gathering and then placement of about sixty wooden tables which weigh 60 pounds each (that's almost two tons of tables loaded, and what do you get? ...) And each table had 6 chairs (and each chair had six cats. No wait, that was my trip to St. Ives.) That's 360 chairs at 14 pounds each, or 5,040 pounds (another 2.5 tons) and then tablecloths on all the tables and the rest of the building cleaned, and probably picked up the dance floor too, which is another half ton.

BUT, it just so happens that I forgot to ride up the elevator and bring down 3 boxes of Irish decorations (something that would take about three minutes). Sometimes, in the scramble to get everything else done, things get forgotten.

You know what happened?

On next week's paperwork, it was printed, the complaint "you forgot the Irish decorations, stay on the ball" or words to that effect.

I was thinking, you have got to be fucking kidding me. After all that I did, moving 8,600 pounds of tables and chairs, and you would pick at one tiny little thing that I forgot (actually WE, since there are four on staff) and PUT THAT IN WRITING????

The point is, no matter how hard you work, no matter how much good you do, somebody can always find fault, especially if they look for it. But is it fair or truthful to just focus on it, as if all the other good things are not there?

George W. Bush vetoed expansion of SCHIP, vetoed (or maybe just threatened) the Matthew Shepard Act, and the Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act. Obama signed them (but hey, who really cares?). Bush's idea of a stimulus is tax cuts, mostly for the rich. Obama gave tax rebates to the poor and also built some roads and kept some teachers employed (but hey, who cares?). Bush appointed Roberts and Alito to SCOTUS. Obama appointed Sotomayor (first Latino) and Kagan (but hey, who really cares?).

The good things get ignored as we search for things to complain about.

I might complain too, that my own complaints don't seem to get much traction here http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/160

[Supersedeas]

105. well said, hf, great great post...

thank you for that....really, sometimes taking the time to clarify a point can make all the difference...

traction sometimes is slow in coming...

again, many thanks for that post
S

[blindpig]

271. Matter of scale

What little positive there has been is miniscule in comparison and more importantly does nothing to piss off capital. The negatives have been entirely in the service of capital.

[highprincipleswork]

48. Why so hard to stand for something?

I've got to ask - what makes it so hard to stand for something, or to stand up against people who are clearly delusional and/or hypocrites, spouting a bunch of nonsense that not only has been proven to be wrong but has lost at the polls, at least in the 2008 election?

What is so hard about that?

I seriously can't imagine why Democrats, including President Obama, have trouble standing up for things that are right, sensible, and even proven by many polls to be statistically popular.

Standing up for the right thing is always the more powerful position. But it doesn't sell itself. The "big lie" is also very popular, but not when confronted with an obvious and provable and even palatable truth. It's just the Democrats seem hypnotized by all the brainwashing. Or the money. Or their message machine is out of order. Or they just don't understand what has been circulating in another post - people don't care about policies and bills and all that minutiae - they care about how it feels and especially does it feel correct.

That's common sense. Common sense and courage and the willingness to counter falsehoods at every turn.

Why don't we have Democratic leaders like that?

As you can tell by my hame here - I believe that high principles work. I believe they work every time, in the long run. But they have to be used in order to work.

[Bluebear]

90. Thank you

[SwampG8r]

167. and that is what happened in 2010

we showed america the progressive face of the democratic party or so we thought in 2008
but in districts where voters had the choice between a blue dog or a republican.....

why did we spend so much political energy to keep the blue dogs in?were they helping?why keep lieberman?is he helping?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

250. "...high principles work".

I agree completely. The Democratic Party's biggest successes have come when they follow strong Democratic principles. Today's Dems are too willing to ignore principles and end up in a some gray, squishy area that they think is immediately politically advantageous but ends up costing much more in the long run.

I long for a leader who clearly states Democratic principles and the reasons they are superior for the American people.

[provis99]

63. things done by congress don't count as Obama's "accomplishments".

Once you take those away, his record is not much different than a Republicans.

[tblue]

77. Nancy Pelosi has done the heavy lifting

and covered his butt, imho.

[classof56]

120. Well, thanks for setting me straight.

I'm sure the truth shall set me free!

Tired Old Cynic

[Bluesbreaker]

179. Name one in which corporations suffered

And don't say the Financial Reform Act, it didn't do anything to fix the too big to fail banks or eliminate the shadow banking system and the many financial "innovations", like collateralized debt obligations, credit default swaps, securitized mortgages, etc.--all of which played major roles in collapsing the economy. (See the academy award winning movie Inside Job, if you don't believe me.)

[classof56]

207. Haven't seen Inside Job yet, but I know what it's about.

Okay, I call Uncle on my advocacy for Obama. Plainly, all the financial nightmares started when he took office and will end when Perry takes the oath. Sorry...don't mean to sound snarky, but I'm 70-plus years old, very dependent on my Social Security and Medicare, which the republicons seem determined to snatch away from me, took significant losses in the referenced economy collapse and so I'm kind of desperately looking for something to cling to in the future. Guess I might as well roll over, accept my fate and learn to love cat food while paying homage to our Corporate Masters. All the while wondering why in hell I ever bought into the American Dream crap.

Tired Old Cynic

[Hell Hath No Fury]

253. My Mom is 78 -

and on SS and Medicare, so I take this issue deadly seriously. Sadly, the GOPers aren't the only ones who are looking to "snatch" your SS/Medicare -- there is a growing number of Dems (O included) who have bought into a more free-market approach to those programs. If you cannot face this, then you cannot fight against what is coming under Obama OR a GOPer presidency.

I stand firmly against any attempts byEITHER party to monkey with two of the most important programs our country has.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snagglepuss]

21. Bkmrkd . K & R. nt

[muffin1]

23. K&R n/t

[chowder66]

25. How about your bookmarked list of accomplishments?

I'm sure you will reach more people once you share your list of accomplishments... which will show that you have a larger overall view.
If the far right at least acknowledged good policies when sharing their view on bad policies they would be taken a tad bit more seriously I suppose. It shows that one is looking at all information.

I will ponder your entire list (some I have already "pondered" without your list).

I will not ask you to do likewise with "the other list". That is up to you.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. I am very familiar with the other "list" --

The problem with it is, if you drill down a bit deeper, I do not believe some to be good for the country. I am one who does not consider the passage of the "healthcare reform" bill a good thing. It attempts (illegally, I feel) to chain us to a corrupt industry, and does not guarantee fully affordable healthcare.

My counter-list was my attempt to layout a case that there is plenty for many of us to be angry about, and that Democrats MUST demand better from O.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aerows]

29. You never really loved him

if you dare criticize him. I bet you never even voted for him. You just want a pony, and even though he told you to hold his feet to the fire, he didn't mean to criticize him. You aren't getting your pony anyway, no matter what you do, so just shut up and quit criticizing this pure, well-meaning politician. Sure, he gets paid extremely well, and has every benefit in the world, but you are just a pony-wanting critic that isn't worthy to exist, since you aren't singing his praises.

It's not like he has said that he *wouldn't* like for every American to have a pony. That means he really wants us to all have ponies.

[valerief]

30. But it's all 23-dimensional chess, isn't it? nt

[laconicsax]

34. 24-dimensional.

The last one is difficult to observe.

[ProSense]

31. Those are not policies

enacted, they're simply criticisms with a lot of room for spin. For example:

"More Obama DOJ attacks on whistle-blowers"

What Greenwald and others who make the "attack on whistleblowers" claim always fail to mention is that Obama is cleaning up Bush's mess.

SEC Opens Whistle-Blower Website as Dodd-Frank Program Begins

"Environmentalists Blast Obama Mining Reversal" (April 2010)

Obama EPA Revokes Largest Mountaintop Removal Permit in US History (January 2011)

It's one thing to criticize and object to things that haven't been done, but it's another thing entirely to continue to base one's criticism on things that have long since been addressed or are in the process of being address.

Also, it's important to acknowledge the good things the administration has done (actions and policies)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

35. On cleaning up Bush's mess -

From the article:

"...it has fallen to Mr. Obama and his attorney general, Eric H. Holder Jr., to decide whether to prosecute. They have shown no hesitation..." They made their call.

As for mountaintop removal, yes, they added evironmental review regulations. But, at the end of the day, you can still get permitted to blast the top of a mountain.

As for the better things he has done, I am happy he was able to accomplish many of the things presented on the List. But what he has done pertaining to civil liberties in unconsionable and cannot be supported under any circumstances.

[ProSense]

37. Hmmm?

"As for mountaintop removal, yes, they added evironmental review regulations. But, at the end of the day, you can still get permitted to blast the top of a mountain."

Again, policy in progress, but that wasn't mentioned in the OP.

The point is the list is simply a collection of criticisms.

Many of the whistleblower investigations launched by Bush have concluded under Obama with charges being dropped.

[Marr]

84. Oh god- like The List isn't a collection of spin.

[KelleyKramer]

134. You choose whistleblowers to defend Obama? Really?! Wow ...

I know these days it's got to be really hard to defend Obama and still pretend that you are a Democrat.

But in your response, by your own choosing, the first thing you bring up is whistleblowers, Wow!

This post is finally drawing me out of my long time of just lurking.

I can no longer sit silent while Obama destroys everything my beloved Democratic Party stands for....

Candidate Obama rattled on and on about how important it is to protect government whistleblowers.

But President Obama has been the complete opposite. Not only has Obama been worse than Bush at prosecuting whistleblowers, Obama is the worst president EVER in prosecuting whistleblowers.

Obama admin is using the extreme measure of the Espionage Act to severely punish WB (whistleblowers), not only more times than Bush, Obama has used that extremely harsh prosecution more than all presidents before him COMBINED!

And in general, Obama has been worse than even Nixon on WB!

And then there is Bradly Manning, you really really don't want to go there either.

To hear crap like that from a 'Democratic' party supporter, wow

---


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/12/us/politics/12leak.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37721.html

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/wikileaks/index.html

betrayed my campaign vow to "Protect Whistleblowers."
vow-
http://change.gov/agenda/ethics_agenda/
betrayel-
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110106/ap_on_re_us/us_cia_leak_indictment
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2058340,00.html

war on whistleblowers
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/23/110523fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all


.

.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

254. "I can no longer sit silent ..."

I hear you. At some point you either start speaking out or you become complicit.

I refuse to be complicit on war crimes, on financial crimes, or on any other issue I think is important to our Country and the health of the Democratic Party.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. I'll be voting for him next year, but I'm very disappointed by things like the attack on med. pot.

It's ridiculous, and it's interesting that no one -not even Obama himself- seems to be able to come up with a cogent, rational defense of indefensible DEA and DOJ policies regarding marijuana.

It'd be nice if they would just come out and admit "we like dragging cancer grannies off to prison for smoking weed, and we're going to keep doing it"

[Hell Hath No Fury]

38. That was one of the more truly stupid things --

they did -- I was even surprised by that. We have war criminals, Wall Street criminals, and homeowners being robbed of their homes by bankers,and they chose to get hardcore over POT?!?! Utterly, utterly ridiculous and a sad insight into their priorities.

[Honeycombe8]

43. So...is Obama personally going after medical pot? nt

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Yes.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

255. Under his administration --

raids on dispensaries soared. That is fact that is uncontrovertible.

[JoePhilly]

45. So POT is the key issue we need to be voting on in 2012??

Hell ... the fights in my area over where exactly the speed bumps should be placed now make so much more sense.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Reading comprehension problems?

I said I'm voting for the guy. But frankly, I think it's INSANE that, in an era of "austerity measures" that apparently require us to cut benefits for sick and old people, we can still find $40 Billion a year to lock people up for smoking pot.

Yes, it's a big issue.

Also, I'm glad you think people with debilitating nausea and sickness from chemotherapy being unable to properly mitigate their symptoms is such a big fucking joke. Har Har.

[JoePhilly]

51. I have 2 nephews who ended up in jail over pot, coke, and illegal guns.

Now ... I do not equate those 3 things. I'd be fine if POT was legal.

But it is not. And the effort to change that would require a shift in focus away from about 50 other priorities, including jobs and the economy.

Now ... you want to equate the money spent here against another specific item ... in doing so, you echo Eric Cantor, who says that money spent to recover from this storm (Irene), needs spending offsets in other places.

What you and Eric miss, is that the federal budget, and its prioritize have 100s of items. And so, while you want to trade off one of these against the other, there are HUNDREDS of others that are part of that discussion.

And most of those trade offs need congressional support.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. legalize it, regulate it, and tax it. Otherwise, you are "fine" with spending $40 Billion a year to

fight it.

Not to fight coke and guns, mind you. Although you're not the first to try to conflate the issues.

$40 Billion a year. Not including costs of incarceration. To keep people -some 65 million otherwise law abiding Americans, by some estimates- from smoking a relatively benign plant for recreational or medicinal purposes.

Yes, that "would need" congressional support. What would NOT need congressional support would be Obama doing what he promised to do, i.e. get the DOJ and DEA to back off the states that have legalized medical marijuana.

[JoePhilly]

62. I did not conflate any issues ... I described actual events.

Look ... you want POT to be legal. I have ZERO issue with that.

But the $40 billion you speak of (source please) is not the issue, is it? Your concern is not the cost of enforcement. Its the legality.

Let's assume that your $40 Billion a year number (no source provided) is real. So then what? Just allow the sale with no regulations?

Or ... will the associated regulations be FREE? What will those cost?

Again ... I think that POT should be legal and regulated, much like alcohol is.

But this is not the issue that the country's future depends on at this time.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Cost and legality are irrevocably linked.

Legalization and taxation of it as a product would be a HUGE net gain. You honestly think that having it as a legal, regulated, taxed product would be more expensive than having DEA helicopters flying all over Northern California at a cost of $1 Million an hour?

[Angry Dragon]

137. However the growing of hemp, now verboten would

create so many new jobs and industry
this country used to grow a lot of hemp
the Founding Fathers grew it
so why not now??
Hemp maybe could be the new stimulus
just think of that

[Fly by night]

108. Actually, Obama and/or Holder could change our nation's mmj policy w/out Congress

The DOJ has the authority to determine where drugs are classified in the Controlled Substances Act. They have delegated that authority to the DEA. IF the Obama administration would take the advice of anyone and/or everyone who has looked at this issue, they could reclassify cannabis on Monday morning to a more appropriate schedule (I nominate Schedule 4.)

Once cannabis is removed from Schedule 1, the game is up. We all know it.

So don't give Obama and/or Holder any leeway on this one. They (and they alone) have the power to substitute science, common sense, compassion AND the will of the overwhelming majority of the people on the ENTIRE GODDAMNED PLANET for the senseless, unsuccessful and unceasing war on "illegal smiles".

The fact that they haven't, and apparently don't intend to, is unacceptable.

To me. And to most of the rest of the sentient beings on this ENTIRE GODDAMNED PLANET.

[Warren DeMontague]

230. I agree

100%.

[sabrina 1]

109. So when will it be time? We are always being told 'this is not the time'

to shift focus away from all the other priorities. What are those priorities? The biggest one is JOBS. I remember when we wanted the Bush War criminals held accountable, we got the same excuse 'we can't be distracted by that right now, we have to think of all the other priorities'. That was in 2006. Maybe we have the wrong priorities. Bailing out Wall St. criminals was NOT a priority for the American people.

Make pot legal, tax it, create jobs, end the wars, cut the Pentagon budget, all these things are popular with the AMERICA PEOPLE. So who are these politicians serving??

Let's make a list of OUR priorities for a change instead Wall St's and those of the MIC.

So sick of that excuse. Six years later it's still being used each an issue that is important to the people comes up.

[girl gone mad]

171. These are not separate issues.

Jobs, the economy and marijuana prohibition are intertwined. Legalization would be a boon to the economy.

[Enthusiast]

67. It demonstrates where the priorities lie.

The priorities are a tad askew.

[Honeycombe8]

41. Dude, you definitely need to get a life. Holes in the visitor's log? Seriously?

Your post means nothing, unless you also post the good things.

Your post could be posted on a right wing nut site, it's so completely negative.

No one, least of all the Prez, is all bad or all good. You wanna be taken seriously? Be objective and post the truth. What BAD he's done, and what good he's done. Both apply (to everyone, I might add).

[polmaven]

55. Very well put!

Thank you....but I am sure there are those who will tell you there is NOTHING he has done that is good...And, of course, we are - um- discouraged - from posting the :hide: LIIISSSTTT :hide:

I agree the president has not always accomplished things exactly as I would have wished. But he certainly has accomplished many, many good, progressive measures, and done so against an intense opposition not seen in a generation.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kurtzapril4]

82. Hear Hear!

MessiahRp, you win one internet!

[Number23]

122. "Your post could be posted on a right wing nut site"

Are you sure it isn't? :shrug:

[jeff47]

136. The folks on the right aren't upset about #1. (nt)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

257. Nope, that is mine --

and a continuation of a project I started under Bush Jr. You can find the original at DoYouKnow.org and the newest version on Facebook.

I am an equal opportunity caller-out of bad actions/policies.

[jeff47]

135. There are plenty of other people willing to post "the List" of "accomplishments".

You're welcome to go look in those threads for the positive spin.

Also, "He Said She Said" is a crutch for bad journalism. It isn't necessary here.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

256. Dude, "holes in the visitors log" --

are very, very important, for a President that promised the most tranparent presidency ever. :eyes:

Put together holes in the log, with meetinsg away from the WH to avoid scrutiny, to secret meetings with Pharma to dump reform and suddenly you start to see a patterm -- a pattern that looks like someone is trying to hide things from the American people.

So much for "sunshine".

As for my post meaning "nothing" because it presents what you perceive to be negative things, have you stepped into every thread where The Other List has been presented and admonished the OP that theirs means nothing because it does not include "negative" items? This was my attempt to add some balance, and let folks know there are serious issues that many are unhappy with.

Interestingly, I did this very same thing under the Bush adminstration -- people where happy for the info and nerver told me I had to add all the "good things" he had done. :D

[woo me with science]

42. That's quite a list, and it does not even mention putting SS and Medicare up to be cut.

Corruption and corporatism. Welcome to the new Democratic Party.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

258. Yes, that is a HUGE one --

something I never thought I'd see from a Democratic president. :( One of the "unforgiveables"in my book.

[Honeycombe8]

44. The environment is my "pony." I see you posted some negative env. articles, BUT...

I see you neglected to post the NUMEROUS positive ones.

If you want to be taken seriously, you should learn to be honest. If you post only half-truths....well, there's already a TV network that does that. No need to read your posts for that.

[amborin]

69. environmentalists, themselves, keep more and more upset with Obama:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E00E2D91F3FF93BA25751C0A9669D8B63&scp=6&sq=environmentalists%20and%20obama&st=cse


that article was in 2010 and their opinion of Obama has deteriorated much further since.....

don't you think they are in the best position to assess the overall impact of O's policies on the environment?

[bhikkhu]

94. Right there with you!

and I still shudder recalling the early bush years, when everything was on the block. Most people probably don't remember, with all the stuff that's happened in between, but the repugs really haven't changed their tack a bit since then. Economic growth to them means drilling, stripping, mining, exploiting, privatizing, and developing every bit of land possible in the public sector.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

259. Your "pony" is being seriously fucked over --

Environmentalist are some of the most (rightfully so) pissed off people right now. Billions in loan guaranteess for nukes, "clean coal", new deepwater drilling permits, opening further areas to drilling, Monsanto tentacles deep within the administration, a nice new pipeline from Canada, no serious plan to address climate change -- "some negative" stuff -- pretty damned serious stuff with consequesnces that can kill our damned planet.

[leftstreet]

53. K&R

[amborin]

54. kr and Mr. Arar, Honduran coup, etc....

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

260. Yup --

The war against he Left in Central/South American was all but forgotten under Bush, but has been steadily ramped back up under O.

[hfojvt]

58. see now, some of that stuff seems ridiculous

I am supposed to get all upset about Obama trying to kill Al-Alaqui?

I bet 95% of the country is okay with Obama's position on that.

Reading the first ten, I don't see anything that I personally am all that upset about.

Further, I bet the true details of the stories often do not match the headlines.

[Warren DeMontague]

79. Really? You're thrilled that in this time of budget cuts, we've got tons of resources

to make sure cancer grannies aren't smoking pot for chemo nausea?

What. The. Fuck.

[hfojvt]

131. are those the only two options?

Thrilled, or really, really upset?

What about the possibility of not being terribly concerned?

Further, I have not heard about any stories of cancer grannies being arrested.

[Warren DeMontague]

231. If you don't give a shit

you should.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

261. "I am supposed to get all upset about Obama trying to kill Al-Alaqui?"

You're supposed to get "all upset" that an American President has determined that he can assassinate an American citizen without trial. Al-Alaqui today, under another President -- a GOPer perhaps -- an American who might be leading an anti-war movement, or an American Julian Assange, or an American looking to expose corruption in the government.

[Frisbee]

60. What we are getting from him is little different that what...

we would have gotten if McCain had been elected, not counting the fact that at least Caribou Barbie isn't VP.

[comtec]

113. NO ONE is saying mccain would have been better

but that's a false argument anyway.

We're holding him up to DEMOCRATIC standards, that a DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT should be held to.

why does your side refuse to accept that?

few of us won't vote for him in the general, but we're NOT going to bang on doors either.

Why do you conflate pointing out where he failed us, so that we can force him to do better next term with "im not gonna vote for him waaaahhhhhh"?

seriously guy, he ASKED FOR THIS!

[Enthusiast]

61. Yer a dang fringie!

Just admit it. :hi:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

262. I was a member of the Finge Folk back in the W days!

A group that started up after Bush dismissed the anti-war protesters as a disgruntled "fringe group". :D

I am happy to say that I remain "fringe". ;)

[pam4water]

68. List looks like a good start :D K&R

[nineteen50]

70. Shit!

I still can't believe I voted for that guy.

[MannyGoldstein]

72. Breathtaking. Thanks for your hard and thorough work. nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

263. Like I said, this was just what I had bookmarked.

Sadly, so much more that others here have added. :(

[nc4bo]

73. That is one hell of a list from hell.

Disgusting and not much any of us can do at this point to change any of it.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

74. You put a lot of work into this post Hell Hath No Fury, thank you.

It use to drive me crazy when repukes blindly supported Bush. This post proves that there are some sane open minded people amongst us.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

264. That's what kills me.

Either you stand for something or you stand for nothing. I spent 8 years protesting some of these very same things under W. Suddenly, I am supposed to forget I found them repugnant. :(

Sorry, just can't do that.

[sabrina 1]

75. Lifted the ban on Offshore Drilling

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/03/31/VI2010033101989.html

[Ferricadouzer]

76. I don't hate him

I just feel like he was a trusted best friend who let me down, big time.

[WillyT]

80. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

:hi:

:kick:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

265. You're welcome!

You and I walked together in too many marches back in the W days to turn a blind eye. :hug:

[saras]

81. The really annoying thing is that not more than 10% of them can POSSIBLY be attributed the right

In most cases, these are conscious policy decisions, not isolated out-of-context acts.

[spooked911]

97. yep, and see this piece:

http://www.nationofchange.org/helpless-president-lit-latest-trend-political-tragedy-1314201408

[spooked911]

206. also this: Obama is NOT “Caving” to Corporate Interests

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07/24

* In 2006, a relatively new Senator Obama was the only senator to speak at the inaugural gathering of the Alexander Hamilton Project launched by Wall Street Democrats like Robert Rubin and Roger Altman, Bill Clinton’s treasury secretary and deputy secretary. Obama praised them as “innovative, thoughtful policymakers.” (It was Rubin’s crusade to deregulate Wall Street in the late ‘90s that led directly to the economic meltdown of 2008 and our current crisis.)

* In early 2007, way before he was a presidential frontrunner, candidate Obama was raising more money from Wall Street interests than all other candidates, including New York presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani.

* In June 2008, as soon as Hillary ended her campaign, Obama went on CNBC, shunned the “populist” label and announced: “Look: I am a pro-growth, free-market guy. I love the market.” He packed his economic team with Wall Street friends -- choosing one of Bill Clinton’s Wall Street deregulators, Larry Summers, as his top economic advisor.

* A year into his presidency, in a bizarre but revealing interview with Business Week, Obama was asked about huge bonuses just received by two CEOs of Wall Street firms bailed out by taxpayers. He responded that he didn’t “begrudge” the $17 million bonus to J.P. Mogan’s CEO or the $9 million to Goldman Sachs’ CEO: “I know both those guys, they are very savvy businessmen,” said Obama. “I, like most of the American people, don’t begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free-market system.”

[indepat]

83. This bunny strenuously opposed every one junior's ruinous RW initiatives just as he has strenuously

opposed every one of junior's ruinous RW initiatives ratified and continued by BHO and every ruinous RW initiative BHO has undertaken on his on volition: it is governance through ruinous RW initiatives that is hated with every fiber of this bunny's being. :patriot:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

266. Amen!

I stand with you. We can -- no, we MUST -- do better than this! Our country and the Party's future depends on it

[emilyg]

87. k/r I don't hate him just

don't like his policies.

[leeroysphitz]

89. Oh please. 4 out of 5 liberals agree...

[bhikkhu]

91. Most of those are either misconstrued, or have reasonable explanations

...and, yes, I do know how lame that sounds.

But thanks for the list. I'll go over it with an open mind over the weekend, do a lot of reading, probably learn a thing or two, and hopefully wind up with some useful reply.

[senseandsensibility]

95. What's going on?

Reasonable responses on DU? LOL. Seriously, your reply is very thoughtful and mature. I'm impressed.

[comtec]

114. The number of times i've tried to make a reasonable reply on the other side...

that's the problem.
We criticize him to help improve the situation.

"look guy, you were a little soft, your base is unhappy... try again"

It all comes down to him giving in without even APPEARING to put up a fight.
that's really what we want... a leader, and the president hasn't acted like a leader.

this president is either a capitulator (a blue dog) or he's weak.
that's a problem. It doesn't matter if there's a D or not... his actions have mostly harmed this country.
YES he slowed down the impending depression II, but he hasn't done any fighting in public against the gop, who put all this into motion to begin with.

he doesn't FIGHT which is what we need... a leader who will fight FOR the progressive cause.
Even if we end up with the SAME legislation as we have now... he difference would be an ENERGIZED BASE, one who was willing to fight FOR the president, to walk miles again, banging on thousands of doors to make sure he was re-elected with a GREATER SUPER majority than last time....

but he hasn't done that.
he's beaten us down with his own words, AND his actions.... he beat us quiet. he wanted the left, the progressives quiet... so we're quiet.

We are allowed to bitch on our own message board!
But we'll be quiet, just like he asked us to... during the election.

[senseandsensibility]

126. I agree, but I was complimenting someone who appeared to

be a strong Obama supporter because he or she has an open mind. I have made up my mind that Obama is not listening to the left, and I admit that I am not very open minded about it, although I once was. This poster seems to be fair minded and I admire that.

[Name removed]

184. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NashVegas]

92. Agricultural Policy Is a Dealbreaker For Me

And they broke it.

Oh, hey! How's the organic White House garden coming along?

[Kermitt Gribble]

93. Wow! To see it all in one place is infuriating...

Thanks for this post!

[DeSwiss]

101. K&R n/t

[spooked911]

103. keep in mind, this is definitely a partial list, but it indicates a huge systemic problem

beyond any reasonable doubt, Obama is actively pursuing conservative policies, absent significant conservative pressure.

[cui bono]

106. Not a hater. Just someone who thought they voted for a Democratic President.

Boy was I wrong.

[peace frog]

110. Fooled again

but we were sooooo ready to believe in hope and change, and Obama was sooooo damn good at being convincing.
More fools we.

[Raster]

111. Same ol' horse.....

....just a different color.

[cui bono]

220. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice....

we won't get fooled again.

Hm...

[TMED]

112. The Obama Scandal list is much bigger

http://obamascandalslist.blogspot.com/

[Z_California]

115. I think most of us dislike many of Obama's policies

Many of us are furious about it. The question is, what should we do about it?

Unless something very dramatic happens, and soon, it will be Obama or {Fill in name of fascist here} who will be in the White House in January 2013. There is NO WAY Obama doesn't survive a primary challenge. It's highly unlikely a third-party candidate is going to come out of nowhere. As rational adults, I think we can all agree that Obama is less dangerous than the current field of crooks, liars, and clowns. He will veto the next "Ryan budget" that comes along and any number of other right-wing wet dreams.

Our anger should be directed in a way that leads to progress, no matter how slow that progress may be. Get the good guys in office at the local, state, and national level. We'll take care of the Presidency in 2016.

[Amonester]

154. + 330 000 000 "Our anger should be directed in a

way that leads to progress"

That way could begin there: http://www.october2011.org

DUers who dislike his policies are encouraged to think it could be the case and if so, be there if you can, or help it in any way you can. Also, (any) donation welcome. Do what you can. Work with them to get it covered in the media. DU is great, BUT PROGRESS IS SLOW (duh) on DU. You may think the WH reads DU and will ACT on each legitimate request here. Apparently, not so much. A 'parallel way' may be more successful than you think http://www.october2011.org

Be there or in spirit if you care.

[sasha031]

116. thank you for your research

it has been his policies time and time again I have become disappointed.

[LWolf]

117. Damn.

That's an extensive list, and you didn't even include his damaging education policies.

[upi402]

118. I hate corporatism... either party

"More Obama DOJ attacks on whistle-blowers"
This one is very telling ... for the big eyed believers still hanging on the the bedtime story of Fairy Princesses and unicorns.

[rbnyc]

151. +1 (nt)

[gateley]

119. Send this list to him. Let him know you're aware. nt

[bread_and_roses]

123. I heard an Obama official talking about responding to worker slavery in agriculture...

I only caught a few minutes - but did hear all the "official's" comments (something about State Dept in his title). It was on NPR but I can't remember which show (I know this is not much of a cite, but I was in and out of the car all day and I assure you I DID hear it - I think the overall story was about tomatoes)

So...this Admin official is asked about responding to these reports. And you know what he talked about? Creating some sort of "slave footprint" index "like our carbon footprint" so that consumers could know how the "providers" they are buying from "rate."

I nearly wrecked the car. THAT is a response? Unbelievable.

[scentopine]

141. Classic neo-lib. Decriminalize slavery and let consumers chose which slaves to exploit. -nt

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grahamhgreen]

128. Oops! Accidental unrec!

[unkachuck]

130. K&R....my, that's a heavy and ponderous list....n/t

[William769]

139. K&R.

[WilliamPitt]

140. Woop.

There it is.

[VPStoltz]

142. I have a right of right wing brother who says he doesn't HATE O.

He just disrespects, dislikes, and distrusts him.
I have sent him list like this numerous times and he won't even acknowledge that I sent it.
The deal with these people is simple - they are racists plain and simple.
O is just like their kind except for one thing.

[ProSense]

144. "O is just like their kind except for one thing."

WTF?

[ProSense]

143. Here's another list:

Formaldehyde Standards for Composite Wood Products Act

Banning antibiotics in livestock production

Why the Government Is Regulating Gluten-Free Foods

FDA: Regulatory science plan positions agency to foster innovation through better science

New rules to regulate coal air pollution, which may result in utilities shutting down smaller, dirtier plants.

New sulfur dioxide emissions limits, which is the first change in 40 years.

New rules to limit water pollution from mining

EPA Proposes First National Standard for Mercury Pollution from Power Plants / Mercury and air toxics standards represent one of strongest health protections from air pollution since passage of Clean Air Act

EPA mercury rules hailed as help for NY lakes (EPA's Mercury and Air Toxics Standards: Cleaner Air AND Reliable Electricity)

Strong Fuel Efficiency and Pollution Standards Put Country on Right Track

First Ever Fuel Economy Standards for Commercial Vehicles

Obama EPA Revokes Largest Mountaintop Removal Permit in US History

Pictures: Six New Natural Landmarks Named

Conservation Wins A Big One At The Grand Canyon

LANDMARK AGREEMENT MOVES 757 SPECIES TOWARD FEDERAL PROTECTION

[scentopine]

148. His greatest enviro act? Decriminalizing dumping 200 million gallons of oil into gulf of mexico -nt

[chervilant]

157. Well, now...

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

Teddy Roosevelt, May 7, 1918 (emphasis mine)

I find it disheartening that so many of our fellow DUers are bent on vilifying those of us who voice our concerns about Obama's 'leadership.' This tendency to denigrate those of us who are questioning Obama's performance reminds me of a rather interesting subtext to Obama's controversial record, to whit:

Recently, Obama admiringly quoted St. Ronnie, during whose administration this nation's massive economic train wreck first occurred. Ronald Reagan spent more than EVERY other president before him COMBINED. Our country saw its first trade deficit EVER during Reagan's reign of terror. Does anyone else remember how the intractable Ronnie Raygun irrevocably damaged unions when he fired the air traffic controllers? Does anyone else remember how he embraced and promoted Uncle Miltie's catastrophic economic creed?

The uber wealthy corporatists, who installed Reagan in office for their express purposes, grew ever MORE wealthy and powerful during his tenure. So, WHAT is it that Mr. Obama admires about Mr. Reagan?

How about this patronizing little sound bite from Mr. Obama during the Debt Ceiling Kabuki Theater:

Now, every family knows that a little credit card debt is manageable. But if we stay on the current path, our growing debt could cost us jobs and do serious damage to the economy.

Really? Setting aside for now the fact that the uber wealthy have not been asked to make sacrifices like those expected of the vast hoi polloi, Mr. Obama needs to use the correct tense when discussing job losses and serious damage to our economy--especially NOW that the wrecked engine of our economy is FINALLY grinding to a halt. We are already witness to the relentless crumbling of this global economy, quite the logical outcome of decades of unfettered hedonism from the disaster capitalists.

What say you about this, from our Paternalistic POTUS:

"We must eat our peas."

Really, Mr. President? How presumptuous to use peas (a most delicious vegetable) as an analogy for the austerity measures shit sandwich we're expected to swallow.

Actually, Mr. Obama pegged the meter on condescension when he asserted that "YOU progressives" view the glass as "half empty" (Cenk did a great commentary on this which was recently posted here on DU). Like SO many other jobless, soon-to-be-homeless citizens in our beleaguered nation, I DON'T need Mr. Obama's condescension; I need a *JOB.*

Which brings me to this final observation:

Obama's appointment of Arne Duncan as SecEd, ALONE, put a huge question mark in my mind about his integrity. Then, his casual dismissal of teachers as 'resistant to change' provided an accurate, if disheartening, picture of his attitude toward a profession that is VENERATED in nations that excel at educating their citizenry. How many teachers (firefighters, union workers) support him now?

Mr. Obama (and his sycophants) can ignore our anger, or he can hear our concerns. Dismissing us as whiners, malcontents, or pathetically misinformed is both disingenuous and disrespectful, and it will NOT help us save this nation.

[raouldukelives]

146. K&R

[LadyHawkAZ]

149. Thank you for this. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

152. His policies have been a massive corporate wet dream...

I don't know if Obama is in on the fix; or if he's forced to have disgusting policies by the
cabal that really runs the show.

We could argue that until kingdom come.

What is not up for debate--is that the corporations still determine public policy in this country--at the
expense of the health and well being of the American people.

This is the "change" that I voted for, that has not happened.

Plain and simple.

The rats who are throwing out the race card are desperate and bizarre.

[madamesilverspurs]

153. Well and good. However,

you say, "I dislike the man's policies, and I -- like many here and across the coutry -- have legititmate reasons to do so." Problem is, those of us who write in support of him -- with legitimate reasons for doing so -- we are the ones who are mocked, trivialized, called names and otherwise demonized, all because we choose to voice our support for a Democrat on a website that purports to exist for the purpose of supporting Democrats. And if our "lists" don't count, why should yours?

[blackspade]

161. Thanks!

I had missed several of those threads.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Iggo]

166. ^^^ Can I do that? ^^^

[a2liberal]

164. K&R (n/t)

[cheapdate]

168. Reminds me of this libertarian I know

He's always digging up this or that example of a negative outcome of public assistance, or of environmental regulations, or whatever. So yes, within the stupendously large organization that is the US federal government you can find plenty of negative examples to bolster your opinion.

It's just easy, I'd say more so, to find examples of positive things Obama has done. Some of my personal favorites are his appointments; e.g., Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Chu for Secretary of Energy, Natural Resources Defense Council President Frances Beinecke for the commission investigating the BP Deepwater Horizon oil drilling disaster, and Sonia Sotomayor for the SCOTUS.

[DiverDave]

173. But, But, Its just 11 D chess

dont you get it?

He's got a PLAN!

To screw me,and you, thats his plan.

[Bolo Boffin]

175. I wonder what this list would have looked like under President McCain?

Or for that matter, what it will look like under President Perry?

I'm really looking forward to Associate Justice Yoo, aren't you?

[Bluebear]

178. You want to discuss Obama and Yoo?

[Bolo Boffin]

188. President Obama has made two Supreme Court nominations.

Both are so much unlike John Yoo, it's laughable.

Yeah, talk to me about President Obama and John Yoo. Tell me how he's going to be the next SC pick for the Obama Administration. Excuse me while I put the popcorn kettle on.

[Bluebear]

189. Obama lawyers DEFENDED YOO FROM TORTURE PROSECUTION.

Eat your popcorn. Maybe a side of peas.

[Bolo Boffin]

191. President Obama will NEVER NOMINATE YOO TO THE SUPREME COURT.

Perhaps you should present your reasons why you think he would.

[Bluebear]

193. Present why Obama defends torturers. Complicit.

Later.

[Bolo Boffin]

199. And President McCain would have been different? Ha.

And President Perry is going to do what, exactly?

Yeah, you hop on out of the frying pan, if you like.

[Bolo Boffin]

192. Also, I'd like to discuss what President McCain would have done for John Yoo.

Or what President Perry would do for him. You want to discuss that?

[Exilednight]

215. Moot argument. Yoo would have never made it past the Senate. n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

227. You don't know that. n/t

[Exilednight]

232. Sure I do. Common sense tells us that he would never make it. n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

238. Well, there's no arguing with common sense, is there? n/t

[Exilednight]

239. It is when the only tea partiers hate just slightly less than Obama is anyone left

over from the Bush administration.

[Maraya1969]

176. Thank you very much......President Perry

[Bluebear]

177. So very very weak

[_ed_]

210. It's sad and pathetic when all you've got left to argue is FEAR

.

[blkmusclmachine]

180. There you go "looking back" again: How do you expect to "Win The Future!"

Don't you know the Presidency is WEAK AND POWERLESS. That's why Tens of Billions of Dollars are pumped into it every 4 years! You're gonna turn off the "Independents" demanding the Prez be a Democrat. You'll get a Prez Perry/Bachmann/Other Assorted Nut. Just clap louder, dammit. And eat your peas. This is the best we could do...

[pam4water]

181. Has an I watch too much TV moment and wants to go off and a few episodes of The Big-O XD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_O

OK I'm better now.

[Bluesbreaker]

182. The sad part is the many bad things he did all by himself

Many of the things on the list are things the Obama administration did all by itself, from failure to prosecute Bush administration officials for lying us into a war and authorizing torture and using Blackwater/Xe (which Obama still employs) to kill civilians; administration pressure on New York AG Eric Schneiderman to give banks immunity, in exchange for a tiny penalty for all their evil deeds; approving genetically engineered salmon, approving expansion of GMO crops, awarding drilling leases in the arctic to Shell and many, many more.

You can't say these were because Obama did not having a cooperative Congress or they were the result of the bad mess left over from Bush.

[Vattel]

186. I have been trying to make that point to the Obama apologists

but I fear that it falls on deaf ears

[chervilant]

214. Deaf ears?

More like ears stuffed with cotton batting, wrapped in multiple layers of gauze, and topped off with a lovely, stylish tin foil hat.

[Harmony Blue]

205. This is core problem

Contrary to popular belief, there isn't pressure for Obama administration to go this direction without a choice.

[obxhead]

185. k/r

[Vattel]

187. I'm not too keen on such lists.

Positive or negative, they tend to be too big to digest. And when I sample the links, I find that some of the items I agree with, others I think, "That's bullshit," and still others I don't know what to think. I'd rather discuss one policy issue in detail. That being said, some of the links here are useful, and I appreciate the importance of many of the concerns your list raises.

[Bluebear]

190. Which ones do you agree with?

[uponit7771]

202. RIGHT!!! There's no POLICY arguments here just a laundry list of shit the FBI or someone else has do

[Hell Hath No Fury]

267. "...some of the items I agree with, others I think, 'That's bullshit,'..."

"...and still others I don't know what to think."

I think that is exactly what you are supposed to do. Look. Evaluate. Come to your own conclusions. And that is often what has NOT been happening here in too many cases.

We cannot blindly follow or trust that leaders will do the right thing because there is a "D" after their name -- we must be observant, we must be always examining our leaders and their actions, and we must be willing to hold them accountable when the things they do are not in or country's best interest.

[pettypace]

195. He won the Nobel Peace prize

That if nothing else merits a second term.

To borrow Mike Steele's favorite go-to idiom, the reality is that Richard Perry is going to be in office in 2 years.

[Bluebear]

197. That if nothing else merits a second term" - why?

Just curious.

[Bluebear]

223. Why?

[pettypace]

226. I was being facetious

He's a one termer.

[Bluebear]

228. ....

:) my bad

[Pooka Fey]

196. Wow, what an amazing job you've done! Great work!

I'm not a "Hater" by the way. I'm a Leftie Firebagger Progressive who used to be able to just say "I'm a democrat".

[MissDeeds]

198. Rec #243

I hate his policies too. Thanks for taking the time and effort to show why many of us have lost 'hope' in this presidency.

[uponit7771]

201. Could you list the things Obama has done via policy, thx

[Lucian]

208. K, R, & bookmarked!

[colsohlibgal]

212. Undeniable

I cannot believe some attack the messengers. Apologists just put their hands over their ears....then defend him because of things like the health care bill...which was a pretty complete sellout in reality.

He and his minions working overtime to water down any punishment of the wealthy banksters and then make any other suits illegal boils my blood.

[femrap]

216. He is bought and paid for by

the multi-national corporations and the top 400 richest households. He thinks he 'belongs' now. I don't know how he looks in the mirror.

After reading that entire list, I feel sick....:puke:

[sulphurdunn]

217. What people think about Obama

is irrelevant. Either the information contained in these links is true or it is not. There shouldn't be any emotional positions about it one way or another.

[retread]

251. Failed to sign Ottawa Treaty.

[Chimichurri]

252. Shooting the messenger has become an epidemic. We should all realize

we are in the same boat and aim our fire where it belongs. To ANY politician doing us wrong. That includes *gasp* Obama and any other Democrat overlooking the will of the citizenry. I'm looking at you, Debbie http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/05/dem-group-targets-dnc-cha_n_858216.html

[Hell Hath No Fury]

269. "...aim our fire where it belongs. To ANY politician doing us wrong."

When both Parties become beholden to the same interests - and those interest are not The People -- we got ourselves a BIG problem.

[in_cog_ni_to]

268. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!

It's a MIRACLE any Liberal still supports him. Honestly. Look at that list! Sheesh.

[stevenleser]

270. Many of these (if not most/all) have been debunked. They were one persons opinion at one time nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

273. GITMO still being open is not an "opinion".

That is a fact. So is raiding pot clubs, spying on American citizens, killing Spain's torture probe, giving Blackwater new government contracts, appointing foxes to guard henhouses, prosecuting whistleblowers, and a bunch more. Facts. Not opinions. They happened in the past and some continue to happen.

"Debunked"? More likely rationalized. :eyes:

[stevenleser]

275. Regarding Gitmo, it is also true that Obama tried to close it and shift the prisoners to the US and

was fought tooth and nail and forced to give it up. Turning that into a negative accusation against him as if he wanted to keep it open is bullshit.

The items in this that are 'true' have this character to them

[Name removed]

274. Deleted message

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