Rep. Lamborn (R-Co): Dealing With Obama On Debt Like Getting Stuck To "A Tar Baby"!!

[David Gill]

Unbelievable!

http://www.am760.net/pages/DavidSirota.html?article=8906042">Link found on this page

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/29876/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/29876/650/richmedia/Doug_Lamborn_Tarbaby.mp3">Click here to go right to the audio

[mike_c]

1. well, that was inartfully put....

Stepped in it for certain, that one did!

[Justitia]

2. um, wow - hello 1880

[bluestateguy]

3. You can always count on a Republican racist remark to unite the left back around Obama again

and just in time too.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[SusanaMontana41]

61. If anything can, that will. n/t

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

6. Bigotry with no shame!

That term has been considered racist for well over 50 years. That asshole should RESIGN.

[Leopolds Ghost]

64. No it hasn't. Know the meaning of the term...

Not saying it wasn't cleverly used in this instance as a code-word to rile up Dems, because Republicans know how to appropriate language and Democrats, used to the media telling them what words mean, just let them.

[Karenina]

76. A WHITE person referring to a BLACK person as a TAR BABY

IS A RACIST REFERENCE. It IS and HAS BEEN for the 6 decades I've been alive.

This is PERFECT EXAMPLE of what Empowerer was asking on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Have YOU ever been the lone dark-skinned in the class, surrounded by bullying kids on the playground calling you a black, stinky tar baby? Have you ever considered how you might perceive such an experience? THAT was over 50 YEARS AGO in Anne Arundel County.

I loved it when my Aunt Carole read Uncle Remus to us because she could do so many voices and dialects. I understood the metaphor as did my siblings and cousins.

I personally experienced the reference morph into a racial slur.

Just one more thing before you return to the behaviour the thread cited spoke of...

As an ESL language trainer abroad, I can assure you of one thing linguistically.

USAGE. ALWAYS. TRUMPS.

ALWAYS.

[entanglement]

85. When you can't use racist language, you do the next best thing: defend its use(rs)

So your well-intentioned and thoughtful explanation was probably wasted on that poster.

[napoleon_in_rags]

7. bre'r rabbit and tar baby

http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/brer_rabbit_meets_a_tar_baby.html

[Dappleganger]

10. My father used to read those stories to me, I still have the book.

It was his first introduction to me of his true racist self.

[SteveM]

22. My Dad read me that story, and I read it in school. Different take...

The tar baby represented a being (black? Poor? Weak?) who could not defend itself or even fight. The rabbit represented someone who could presumably do all those things, and further demanded respect, even from someone without power. When the rabbit attacked, he just got in deeper and deeper. Lesson: Don't assume someone is defenseless by their mere appearance; YOU may be the one who comes up short.

The images may have been racial in the beginning, but the lesson is universal. I found the Brier Patch story even better!

"Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you." Attributed to John Steinbeck.

[napoleon_in_rags]

63. My grandma read me those stories.

Not a racist bone in her body, in fact I always pictured Bre'r Rabbit as being this kind of cool black kid for some reason when I heard them. I think my intuition was right, the roots of the Br'er rabbit (brotha rabbit) stories are from Africa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br'er_Rabbit

African origins

The Br'er Rabbit stories can be traced back to trickster figures in Africa, particularly the hare that figures prominently in the storytelling traditions in Western, Central and Southern Africa. These tales continue to be part of the traditional folklore of numerous peoples throughout those regions. In the Akan traditions of West Africa, the trickster is usually the spider (see Anansi), though the plots of spider tales are often identical to those of rabbit stories.

So yeah, it may be insensitive to use the term "tar baby" when talking about Obama, but don't bring poor Br'er rabbit into it.

[SteveM]

91. I've read most of Zora Neale Hurston's works...

There are plenty more fables. She once said that one can better understand black culture by concentrating on invective and metaphor than on dialect, the province of most "cinematic makeovers."

[Karenina]

92. Wow! Museum pieces that we are!

:puke:

[SteveM]

93. Being without either health insurance or Medicare, I must rely on...

Green Cross, Green Shield.:smoke: :smoke:

[Dawson Leery]

8. Again, the tea party is about preserving the elite power structure.

[spanone]

9. racist republicons

[MsKandice01]

11. "Tar Baby"

Who even uses that term anymore in any other context (besides a bigoted one)??

[spanone]

12. i believe you answered your own question!

:hi:

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. Yeah, I'm afraid you guys are misinformed

But feel free to tell me "briar patch" is a racist word, too... or "Indian".

[Dr. Strange]

21. Molly Ivins did.

"It now looks, with 20-20 hindsight, as though he should have taken a few more deep breaths before smacking that tar-baby that is Afghanistan."
http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/1/2001/650

[SteveM]

25. Oh, but didn't you know that Molly was from Texas? Surely a racist. nt

[Dr. Strange]

27. Ha! I almost wrote that!

But I didn't want to bring on the Wrath of kentauros^TM!

:rofl:

[kentauros]

49. Are you being a regional exclusionista again?

:P

[Dr. Strange]

59. Don't you flash your Texas smilies at me!

:hide:

[Justitia]

29. She was talking about a war. He was talking about a BLACK PERSON.

Do you not see the difference there?

[Dr. Strange]

31. So in other words...

there IS another context for the word (besides a bigoted one)?

Hence my answer to post #12.

[Justitia]

35. I wouldn't use it in any context. But I know the difference between "things" & "people".

The rep said being associated with President Obama was like touching a tar baby.

WTF???

Some people are trying to be too clever by half in this thread.

[Leopolds Ghost]

66. Obviously the Republican was using it in an inappropriate context. R's are experts at appropriating

innocent language and using it as code words. We LET them.

[fishwax]

89. you seem to want to let them

Which boggles the mind. It's not as though the evolution of tar baby into a racial code word is in its early stages. It's been around for decades.

Pointing out that a teabagger is using a phrase that has longstanding racial connotations isn't "letting" them appropriate words, it's calling them on it.

On the other hand, insisting that "That's not a slur! The fact that it's been used as one for decades doesn't matter! It's still not!" is *letting* them use such code words and excusing them for it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

75. Why not? Its use as a racist expression is marginal and malapropist. This guy is misusing the phrase

Trying to turn it into code language, like they did with "waste fraud and abuse" and the term "liberal".

[KamaAina]

38. Many of us used to (still?) compare Bush* to a chimp.

That is NOT the same thing as the redneck bar owner in Ga. selling T-shirts depicting Obama as a monkey. :grr:

[Dr. Strange]

41. True, there's a context in which calling someone a chimp is not racist.

Again, this fits with my answer to post #12.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

39. Molly Ivins died in January 2007, a year BEFORE Pres Obama was inaugurated

The "he" to which she allegedly referred certainly was not an African-American--must have been George W. Bush.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Ivins

[SteveM]

26. Check #29

[TheKentuckian]

13. Damn! They can't hide the Klan-ish element for a moment, can they.

TeaPubliKlan, I sez and I don't stutter. The Republicans are a mental unstable, terrorist, racist institution.

Did I mention they are secessionist and arguably treasonous, as well.

What vile shit they are.

[indepat]

24. And besides that, bet you don't even like 'em a bit

:thumbsup: :patriot:

[Bucky]

14. Republicans using "tar baby" are basically trolls. It's not technically racist, but sure sounds it

They employ this language specifically to provoke a reaction. It's bait dragging, not dog whistles. The racists among the Tea Partiers long ago gave up the pretense of dog whistles. It's a childish playground taunt--a sign of someone who can't handle a real debate.

[Leopolds Ghost]

67. Yes, it's dog whistle code language. They would just love it if we let them redefine the meaning.

Then they'll move on and reclaim another word from the English language and change its meaning, knowing that they are reshaping the language and we are letting them because we are either overly sensitive or unread.

The worst coded dog-whistles are the ones that use INNOCENT terminology and we LET them because "he didn't say a bad word."

[Maru Kitteh]

15. GOP - Party like it's 1911. nt

[hedgehog]

16. We had a monumental thread about this several years back.

The actual original tar baby was made from pine tar, not asphalt. As such, the tar baby of the Uncle Remus stories was not the coal black figure out of the Disney movie.

The Uncle Remus stories were based on African American folklore and probably go back to African folklore. In and of themselves, they are not racist and are certainly as illustrative of life as any of Aesop's fables. The problem is that Disney and others presented the stories in a racist context. In addition, the term "tar baby" was applied to African American children by reaicst whites in many localities.

It's unfortunate, because the image of the tar baby is metaphor that has no substitute I am aware of. And of course, Brer Rabbit's method of escape (Don't throw me in that briar patch!) is also a great metaphor. However, the racist overtones tacked on to this term have overwhelmed the original meaning.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KamaAina]

30. The actual original Uncle Tom in Stowe's novel was an heroic figure.

Does that mean I can call an African American an "Uncle Tom" and not be racist?

[hedgehog]

34. I was listening to a discussion of Uncle Tom's Cabin the other day

and the point was made that it was only when uncle Tom's cabin was adapted to the stage that he was transformed into a character pleasing to racists.

[RZM]

43. I've never approved of whites calling African Americans 'Uncle Toms'

Just strikes me as unseemly and over the line. But I certainly have heard whites say it with a straight face and not be challenged on it. I imagine a DU search on 'Uncle Tom' would show some interesting threads.

I'm curious to see how this rep tries to spin this. Probably he'll issue a quick apology in the form of a press release, though he might try to justify it and say it wasn't meant to be racial.

[Leopolds Ghost]

69. If you are black, most definitely. Same with "high yella" and "house negro".

Only black people are allowed to use those terms because they are condescending toward specific segments of the black community.

It depends on whether you know the actual meaning of a term or just go by what you're told... "oh don't worry what it originally meant, it's a word that is used by racists so it has no legitimate meaning."

[KamaAina]

87. I am not

and neither is Rep. Lamborn. 'Nuf ced.

[Empowerer]

78. Referring to a black person as a 'coon isn't fine and dandy just because the term originally

and sometimes still does refer to a raccoon.

Context is everything.

Unless, of course, one wants to justify bigoted behavior and language.

[SteveM]

32. Disney did to African-American folklore what he did to biology (Bambi):

Unfortunately, too many people took the Disney approach and let it "instruct" them in how to react.

BTW, the antidote to cartoon Bambi is The Yearling (if one can handle it).

[Leopolds Ghost]

68. Should we view Song of the South as racist, though? Is "briar patching" a racist expression?

That's not how its black actors saw it. They trumpeted Disney as one of the only people in Hollywood who was willing to promote black actors. If it weren't for Song of The South those African American folk tales would have died off and never entered pop culture in the first place.

[Justitia]

17. Let's put a face w/a name, shall we?

yeah....just like you thought

[Maru Kitteh]

19. Yup. Three or four beers at a BBQ and you'll get all his best "jokes," I'm sure.

I'm sure he and my BIL would get on fabulously. Like long lost twins.

[SteveM]

33. Uh, what are you thinking, Justitia? Can you explain? nt

[Justitia]

36. Yeah, I'm thinking you're an apologist.

[SteveM]

40. Thinking a 10-person "lefter than thou" rally in the late 60s...

C'mon, just what are you thinking? Are you afraid to answer? Is that why you throw out the usual cadre comeback? How many more of those zingers you got?

[Leopolds Ghost]

74. Is the term Baptist Mouth considered insensitive on DU? :-)

[Igel]

18. Always worth reading.

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/tar-baby.html

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/anatar.html
(I've always gone with "entertainment value"; even slaves took a break from social commentary every once in a while to be neither subversive political agents nor hapless victims, but just people.)

[damntexdem]

23. Racism always shows through -- in this case, more clearly than in others.

Unfortunately, all too believable.

[SteveM]

28. Home you don't "damn" Molly. nt

[Snoutport]

37. jeeeeeez

[Romulox]

42. Similar to "niggardly", it seems the truth doesn't matter with this term. nt

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

46. not similar to "niggardly"

One sounds similar to a word used as a slur.

The other has a history of being used as a slur.

[Romulox]

53. The slur was formed in ignorance.

It seems that stupidity is so much stronger than reason, sometimes. We are hobbled by the dimmest amongst us.

[fishwax]

54. are there slurs that aren't formed in ignorance?

Slurs are, generally, a demonstration of ignorance. :shrug:

The fact that the term did not originate as a racial slur doesn't negate the fact that it has been used as such for decades.

[Romulox]

55. The users of this "slur" misunderstand (or seem to be entirely ignorant of) the metaphor

If the stupidest amongst us hears word A and think it means B, based on nothing more than his own diseased (not to mention limited) imagination, should that malapropism rule our usage?

[fishwax]

58. that the slur is a misreading doesn't change that it's been used to injure and offend

Yes, the use of it as a slur is stupid, because it's a misreading of the original meaning. In that sense, it's only marginally different from the use of other slurs, which are stupid because they're slurs.

But I agree with you that it's dumb to use it that way. Obviously I'm not defending the use of it in that way--just the recognition of its history.

[Leopolds Ghost]

71. We shouldn't recognize its use as a slur, because it is a malapropism. n/t

[Karenina]

77. YOU needn't. Has it EVER been hurled at YOU with all the attendant

hatred and contempt of the non-verbal communication accompanying it?

Just wondering.

:shrug:

[fishwax]

88. that's silly

People have been hurt by the word. It has a decades-long history of being used to ridicule, injure, etc. It's not ignorance to point that out--rather, it's ignorance to deny it.

That it's a distortion of the original phrase (I won't go so far as to say it's a malapropism, because I imagine when people first started using it--in at least the 1920s if not before--they knew exactly what they were doing) doesn't change that.

People have used the phrase to refer to black people for decades. Almost a century, even. The protestations of "that can't be a slur because it has a different meaning" are silly because, in fact, it can be, and has been, a slur.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

47. At least no US Congressperson has used the term, "n****r hiding in the woodpile"

in public in recent years. That's not true for their British counterparts. See tjr 3-year old Daily Telegraph article, "David Cameron Stands by 'N****r in the Woodpile' Peer", at
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/2275997/David-Cameron-stands-by-nigger-in-the-woodpile-peer.html

[David Gill]

48. The fact that it originally had an acceptable meaning doesn't excuse the fact that it's since turned

into a racial slur and that he was referring to the first black President of the United States.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

57. In other words.....the racists won.

Their ignorant use of the term changed it's meaning.

Oh well, blissfully marching towards "Idiocracy".

[Leopolds Ghost]

72. It still has an acceptable meaning and you are trying to say we're not allowed to use it correctly.

Because you heard someone say that ignorant people have been known to use it incorrectly

(knowing that the literal meaning of the idiom has nothing to do with race or types of people for that matter)

Apparently this will be extended to other words Republicans use as code phrases.

[Empowerer]

79. "WE'RE NOT ALLOWED to use it"?

No one is saying "you're not allowed" to say anything. You can say anything you wish. But if you say certain things that are deeply offensive, expect to be called on it.

Much of the consternation about what "we're not allowed" to say, I suspect, stems from anger at what some see as a loss of entitlement to do and say as one pleases, regardless whether it is offensive to other people.

The notion of being hampered by "political correctness" is an interesting phenomenon. In my view, "political correctness" is simply good manners, nothing more or less. I try not to say or do things that offend other people, even if I don't fully understand why its offensive. But for some reason, some people see it as a zero sum game in which their "right" to say whatever they please, regardless how offensive, is being curtailed by people who apparently don't have the right to be offended. Of course, those screaming the loudest about "political correctness" seem to think that they have every right to be offended at not being "allowed" to say what they want - while those of us who are offended by what they say are just big crybabies.

Richard Pryor once commented about those who insisted that it wasn't fair that black people used the word "nig*er," but it was considered wrong for white people to say it. "How come YOU can say it, but we can't?"

Pryor's response: "Why do you WANT to say it?"

[Karenina]

90. Good question, eh?

:rofl::crazy::rofl:

[mfcorey1]

44. S.O.B.

[TK421]

50. Why doesn't he call him a "darkie" and get it out of his nasty system n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

70. +1

[librechik]

51. OMG--they really don't know their racism is transparent, do they?

Then if you point it out they still don't understand and say it's you for reading it in.

[SoCalDem]

60. They know exactly what they are saying. They are bolder now that he's president

because it's "okay" to critique the president.. they are venting all the nasty racism they dared not utter during the campaign season. It's "safe" for them now...and the Teabag people made it "fashionable and fun"..they are having the times of their lives.

[Empowerer]

80. And with so many Democrats willing and eager to circle the wagons around them, why not? n/t

[Karenina]

81. More of the same.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x605233

[Maru Kitteh]

62. Are you talking about the Teabastards or the "lovely" DUers in this thread?

[Leopolds Ghost]

73. So you're claim that DUer using the term Tar Baby in its correct sense is a racist? Shame on you.

Obviously the Republican's use of the term is incorrect and inappropriate, and also a misuse of the phrase.

[mfcorey1]

52. Send this everywhere so that the thugs can be revealed as the racist they are.

[Drahthaardogs]

56. Is this a Macaca moment?

If not it should be. Of course Boehner whistles tunes from Song of the South all of the time, so probably it will not be, these guys always get away with crap.

[RSillsbee]

82. He used the word EXACTLY as the dictionary defines it.

No harm , no foul. Lamborn used to have offices in the building I worked in, I've met him a time or two and even if I don't care for his politics he seemed like a decent guy.

[Empowerer]

83. Wow.

[RSillsbee]

84. Wow

You can't make something mean what it doesn't mean. I don't even see that he was refering specifically to Mr. Obama as much as the debt problem.

If it really was racism I'd be all over it but I just don't see it.


(Cue a boat load of posts calling me a racist because I'm not in sync w/ the groupthink)

[Karenina]

86. You give yourself airs, sir. n/t