Clinton finally ahead of Obama in popularity

[onehandle]

It's about two years too late, but Hillary Clinton has finally pulled ahead of Barack Obama. By any measure -- favorability ratings or job approval -- Americans by a sizable margin have warmer views of the secretary of state than they do of the president. This is of little use to Clinton beyond bragging rights, but among Hillary '08 fans there is some satisfaction that the woman Obama once cut down as "likable enough" is now more liked than he is. Depending on the measure and the poll, she leads him by roughly 10 to 25 percentage points.

To understand why, look no further than their calendars for Monday. The president was in Alabama and Mississippi, trying again to change the public perception that his administration has been weak in its response to the oil spill. The secretary of state was in Washington receiving plaudits for being a "passionate leader" and for taking a "resolute and genuine" stand against human trafficking and slavery. In the ceremonial Ben Franklin Room of the State Department, the passionate and resolute Clinton vowed her commitment "to abolishing this horrible crime" against human dignity. "Traffickers must be brought to justice," she said.

For a public figure, few issues are as politically safe; the slavery and exploitation lobby, after all, was unlikely to issue a rebuttal. Clinton finished her day Monday with a speech on the need for help in sub-Saharan Africa; no criticism from the keep-Africa- poor movement was heard. Contrast that with Obama, who had only grim tidings for Gulf Coast residents about the BP oil spill. He spoke to them of a "fear that it could have a long-term impact on a way of life that has been passed on for generations." Give Obama points for honesty, but that's not going to boost his poll numbers.

Previous secretaries of state Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice were both more popular than their boss, President George W. Bush. But such a trend is not universal: Warren Christopher didn't have ratings as high as his boss, President Bill Clinton.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/14/AR2010061404756.html

[bigdarryl]

1. stupid polling she's not the President and not in the media like he is

[Pirate Smile]

3. It is a political & partisan office vs. one which isn't supposed to be so equating them is stupid.

It is like POTUS v. FLOTUS - wow, POTUS is viewed as more partisan, political, having more enemies - well, no sh#$, Sherlock.

[vaberella]

5. Exactly....ugh...I don't see the OP's post as significant at all.

Talk about apples and oranges.

[pocoloco]

2. How can that be possible?

He is a Nobel Peace Prize winning chess playing Political genius??

Hell, just last week he put those pesky unions in their place!

[vaberella]

6. You realize your post makes no sense...Actually I'm sure you are. n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[vaberella]

11. Uh huh...

Libby Ledbetter made into law. <--Where now after centuries women get equal pay as men.
Expanding protectionary rights to the LGBT community against hate attacks.
Financial aid reform.
Healthcare reform----because for many it's a massive change.
Giving the LGBT community rights to be with their love one in hospitals.
Expanding on rights formerly limited due to DADT----and working to push the repeal of DADT.
Pushing for reformation of financial reform and climate change and energy.


And I've only stated a few...but yes, you're right. This most definitely is Bush III.

[Name removed]

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[vaberella]

29. It's been done. Hate Obama in full effect. n/t

[Jennicut]

21. If you hate Obama you will hate Hillary. Their views were never that different.

Our primaries were quite constructive and full of detailed debate. But Obama and Hillary are very similar on the political spectrum. Depends on what personality differences you are looking for. And Hillary is a bit more hawkish on foreign policy but not much.

[vaberella]

31. Don't remind people of this well known fact.

DU likes believing what they want to believe.

[Jennicut]

35. LOL. Fighting all sides. Sheesh.

Where were these people during the primaries???

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[Jennicut]

48. Hmmm, so is Obama too liberal or too moderate for them? After all,

Hillary advocated for a very strong presence to us in Afghanistan, over Biden and others.
I wonder why I come here anymore.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[Jennicut]

52. Yup, I come here for you guys.

:hug:

[Cha]

89. Aren't you sweet!

:hug: I'm definetly still here for all you peeps.:):patriot::patriot::patriot:

[O is 44]

91. I'm here too Vaberella, I don't always have time to log in

and comment but I'm with you guys. There is no shame in supporting this administration and this President!

[SwampG8r]

130. i think he is

most likely too liberally moderate or perhaps even not moderately liberal enough
or maybe he is progressively liberal or too liberally progressive

i cant quite put my finger on it

[niceypoo]

55. With one difference

Hillary has a pair

[Jennicut]

61. Of what, ovaries?

I hate that term.

[niceypoo]

113. Of yarbles

[Hawkowl]

69. Nonsense

People may dislike Obama much more because he pretended to be vastly different than Hillary. So the "hatred" comes from a sense of betrayal which is more vehement than any other type of hatred.

[stevenleser]

127. LOL. No, you cannot say that either.

All the websites that check such things show that he has kept the vast vast majority of his promises. He is governing exactly as promised. Now, a pedantic person would respond to this post of mine with one of the few broken or delayed promises. Are you going to go there?

[Teaser]

23. "Its like having a Bush third term.."

goddamn, the stupid is catching.

[vaberella]

45. Isn't it though. ~sigh~ n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. Yeah, we know. He's not John Edwards

:eyes:

[dionysus]

43. ah.. smoove johnny, where art thou?

[blm]

36. That's brilliant...especially since HRC has been pulling Obama rightward on foreign policy as she

has been consistently on the same page as Gates and McChrystal and AIPAC.

Does anyone READ past the headlines anymore?

Clintons and their acolytes in the Obama administration have been pulling rightward all along.

[Metric System]

63. If only poor President Obama had the final say! Oh wait...

[blm]

66. not the point, though, is it? The reply was directed at the poster's misconception that HRC would

be the better choice for left-directed policy.

Clinton pulls Obama's POLICY rightward along with Gates, Petraeus, and McChrystal and many of you are well aware of that fact and choose to pretend that she has nothing to do with it.

[leftynyc]

64. Ooooh - poor Pres Obama

Can't stand up to his employees and gets dragged kicking and screaming to do their bidding. Do you really believe that drivel?

[Beacool]

67. That's been their excuse from day one.

Poor guy, he gets dragged around the nose by Rahm, Hillary, etc. It's never ever his own doing. LOL!!!

:D

[blm]

70. Presidents do not seek consul from both sides of debate? Oh....OK.

Let's pretend presidents DO listen to both sides of the debate....Hillary Clinton used her position of influence to pull with __ which side?

[blm]

68. Not what I said, at all. I note that HRC is part of the administration's RW pull on foreign policy

and many of you choose to pretend otherwise.

No President makes decisions without listening to both sides....care to say HONESTLY what side of those debates HRC has positioned herself with as senator AND as Sec of State?

Do you understand why certain countries like Syria and Pakistan do not consider her an honest broker for their region?

[leftynyc]

93. She is doing Pres Obama's bidding

It doesn't matter where she stands on any issue. He's the final say and if he's not and she's gone rogue, he needs to fire her. Is that what you think is happening?

[blm]

101. Not what was said. He has two sides pulling him towards their view. She sides with the further right

of his advisors. How hard she pulls alongside Gates, Petraeus and McChrystal effects the outcome of his decision, doesn't it?

And again....why do you all need to pretend these decisions happen in a vacuum as if HRC is not part of the process?

My guess is that you are uncomfortable with her commitment to hawk stances and need to convince yourselves that all of her pulling alongside the other committed hawks has no effect.

[dionysus]

41. teh stoopid, it burnz

[Beacool]

12. Funny.........

:rofl:

[Cha]

83. Yes, he is and he is brilliant enough to pick

Hillary for his SOS who doesn't get slammed by the corporatemediawhores 24/7 and is doing a great job for the Obama Admin by all accounts.

[golfguru]

88. How can a checkers player beat a 3-D chess player?

[HughMoran]

108. pass the joint, man

:smoke:

[vaberella]

4. You do realize she's not making the significant nations in regards to the nation's interest.

A lot of the direction she takes is while in talks with Obama and the like. That being said...if she was President and Obama was SOS...we'd have an Obama supporter posting a similar article. So how do I take this post...as worthless.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[karynnj]

25. I think most politicians think very highly of themselves

I know that one of them thought she was inevitable and it was apparent that she was very dismissive of many she thought not her peers.

The fact is that Obama has done many things that it take time and distance to totally evaluate. I suspect that even if he is a one term President, he will have greater accomplishments than any Democratic President since Johnson.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

30. Arrogance is a requirement for politicians.

It takes arrogance to think you are the right choice.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Beacool]

37. Ohhhhhh, you are always so sweet to me.

Kisses.......

:*

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[Beacool]

50. The two can go together, they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

;-)

[vaberella]

54. No they're not...

However, when I see your posts to post like this---you're dislike clouds any sort of policy decision you may not agree with. And I rarely if ever see you give serious credit to Obama. Nothing really to wink at. Most of the time I want to respect people on DU because I do come here for logical discourse. However, when I see a bias come out---it's annoying and unfortunate. This is why I respect sacrat's and ruggerson's posts a great deal (criticize but gives kudos) while I've moved from depakid. I realize it's not good to shout people out, however nothing in my post is meant to insult. Just to show my personal feelings. You're a long standing poster and maybe I was expecting more than I should have.

It's whatever now though.

[vaberella]

26. Nothing I mentioned in post 11 affects the working class. Only his Corporate Overlords. n/t

[asjr]

8. This sort of thing always happens. Wait until

tomorrow and it may be different. We are extremely lucky in having both of those patriots in our court. Obama knew what he was doing when he chose Hillary for SoS. When the media have nothing to say they always throw something out to make us think they are relevant. The WashPost has relegated itself to lining a parakeet's cage.

[bertman]

9. Obviously they didn't hear her lecturing the Central/South Americans about

the joys of "free elections" in Honduras.

DLC Corporate shill.

She's just another puppet in the Military-Intelligence-Corporate Complex puppet show.

[niceypoo]

53. She speaks for Obama

[bertman]

106. Like I said: another puppet in the MICC puppet show.

[Beacool]

10. Milbank's article is snarky.

Besides, Hillary has been polling better than Obama for months. These media types, including Milbank, trashed Hillary endlessly during the primaries and now they see the light? A pox on all their houses.

x(

[vaberella]

13. How the hell do you compare the President's position to the SOS position?

Seriously. Wait...to you HRC would always have been a better president anyway.

[Beacool]

15. Of course I think that she would have been a better president.

I wouldn't have supported her if I hadn't thought so.

:shrug:

[vaberella]

47. Understood.

I supported them both. I leaned Obama towards end for various reasons. But to me they were almost interchangeable in views. ~sigh~

[stevenleser]

129. Oh my god, what a nightmare.

Add to everything the GOP has attacked Obama about the standard lines against the Clintons. Nothing would have gotten done. It would have been a blizzard of "Socialist, Whitewater, Death Panels, Lewinskygate, travelgate, the latest Bill rumor, etc."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. It helps that Hillary has little media exposure while O is out front fending off slings & arrows

[vaberella]

46. True. n/t

[Teaser]

22. "now they see the light"

what light?

FAIL.

[Beacool]

28. Oh, just peruse the blogs, read articles from various publications and see for yourself.

The comment sections are also very interesting.

;)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

32. If blogs had anything to do with reality, we'd have president Ron Paul right now.

[vaberella]

49. Oh my God, ain't that the truth?! Lordy. I've never seen a man so idolized.

He's like a "cult classic." He has a serious cult following on the net. Way too many libertarians adore him---or people who don't realize they're libertarians.

[Teaser]

62. No I mean, "WHAT LIGHT"?

Obama is doing exactly the same job as president that HRC would have.

[Jennicut]

17. Apples and oranges. SOS is not President. Does SOS get blamed or praised regarding the economy?

Or anything else domestically? Get back to me when that happens.

And yes, I love Hillary. Actually very, very pleased with her as SOS.

[Tarc]

18. That's who I voted for!

:)

[karynnj]

20. Albrtight had higher favorable and job approval ratings than Clinton

as did both Rice and Powell compared to Bush. These are not apple to apple comparisons. I assume had you polled Allbright head to head with Clinton, Clinton would easily have won.

The only way to really measure whether Obama is more popular than Clinton is to poll just that - Obama vs Clinton head to head.

This is at least the 95th article that makes this same case - and I suspect that what it shows is there are many reporters still disappointed by 2008 and they were better in their English courses than their math courses.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[SemiCharmedQuark]

38. The only way the comparison would work would be if she was the president.

The SOS and Presidential duties are very different.

[vaberella]

56. This fact doesn't seem to register. n/t

[Jennicut]

40. Love Hillary but for her, governing would be different too.

Their views are not that different. Really, DU doesn't seem to want moderate Presidents.

[karynnj]

57. I did not say that I am sure, the data does not exist

What I said is that without that you can not prove that HRC would win. I do not intend to argue that he would. What I said is that the OP article statement is not proven.

In either case, the strongest thing that can be said is "I think".

As to campaigning is not governing, I think it important to note, that Hillary has ONLY campaigned.

As to her job as Secretary of State, the fact that Powell, Rice and Allbright all polled very high suggests that the assumption that the US does good in the world. It is rare that a secretary of state's actions are ever reported negatively. Yet, even some of the articles that you have posted are a mix of extreme praise of the promise of Hillary Clinton and an acknowledgment that there have been gaffes. Time and distance are needed to assess her actions as Secretary of State. At this point, I think that Clinton fans are too quick to label her as a great Secretary of State - just as you think that Obama was labeled a great President by about February 2009.

[Name removed]

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[asphalt.jungle]

58. i love the snark

"For a public figure, few issues are as politically safe; the slavery and exploitation lobby, after all, was unlikely to issue a rebuttal. Clinton finished her day Monday with a speech on the need for help in sub-Saharan Africa; no criticism from the keep-Africa- poor movement was heard. Contrast that with Obama, who had only grim tidings for Gulf Coast residents about the BP oil spill. He spoke to them of a "fear that it could have a long-term impact on a way of life that has been passed on for generations." Give Obama points for honesty, but that's not going to boost his poll numbers."

[uponit7771]

59. wow

[WI_DEM]

60. What is the point of this? except that Obama is president and is dealing with many more complex

issues than the SOS who isn't nearly as much in the news. It's stupid to even post this except that you're probably trying to get some people's goats on DU because of 2008. I'm sure it would be the same if Clinton were president and Obama SOS--and Obama would probably be more "popular" than the president.

[Tarheel_Dem]

65. Ditto. Only it's my belief that HRC would be hovering around mid 30's by now.

She's pretty much out of the limelight as SOS. When she was in the heat of the primary battle, lots of people (myself included) had an aversion for her sense of entitlement. I love HRC in her current position, but she's not governing, and for that I'm grateful.

[rury]

71. What a joke this "poll" is

Clinton does not have to grapple with tough issues and make unpopular decisions like President Obama does - so yeah, she's more popular.
I'm glad it's him-and not her-governing right now.
He's the right man for these difficult, transformational times and I would not anyone other than him as president.
BTW, the iPad I won after donating here arrived via FedEx today...so excited to use it...woot!!!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

72. I absolutely agree. And congrats to you on your win. Hope you enjoy it. (nt)

:hi:

[Enrique]

73. apples and oranges n/t

[CakeGrrl]

74. Is this a PUMA mating call or what?

:rofl:

One person is POTUS, the other is a member of his Cabinet. It's not even a feasible comparison.

The Primary is over. Hillary isn't taking over.

[Flying Dream Blues]

78. Yes, indeed. nt

[vaberella]

79. Hahaha!! n/t

[Uzybone]

99. ROOOAAAAARRRR!!!!!!

[AspenRose]

118. *nodding*

[Phx_Dem]

75. Good for her, but she's still not President. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

100. Yep.

:fistbump:

[jenmito]

76. Yes-FINALLY! And if Hillary had won, OBAMA'S approval would be WAY higher than HERS!

She isn't the leader of the free world. She carries out the President's policies. Obama MADE her popular. ;)

[Beacool]

77. Obama MADE her popular????

Thanks, I needed a laugh.

:rofl:

[jenmito]

80. Yup! She's implementing President Obama's policies, which are obviously popular.

I know you hate to hear things like that since you still haven't accepted that we HAVE a President OBAMA instead of a President Hillary Clinton. :(

[Beacool]

81. Please............

I know that you're a big supporter, but reality check. Whether Hillary is popular or not, it is not because of Obama. This is one of the most famous women in the world, and has been so for years before anyone knew Obama's name.

I'm glad that they are getting along and that she's enjoying her job, but her popularity is of her own doing.

;)

[VMI Dem]

82. When its good, they are implementing his policies. When its bad, they are responsible.

Get with the program.

Same deal with the Congress. Good - its his leadership. Bad - "he's not a king".

[ProSense]

85. Congress doesn't work for the President. Hillary does. n/t

[VMI Dem]

86. When they pass acceptable legislation, its his leadership.

When they don't, the worshipers harp on about him not being a king.

Its as ludicrous as those that try to make the case over and over and over that he is a progressive or a liberal. Especially the ones that saw conspiracy in everything that Bill Clinton did. But that is off topic isn't it?

[Beacool]

95. Sorry, how could I have forgotten.........

:eyes:



:D

[ProSense]

84. "Whether Hillary is popular or not, it is not because of Obama."

So when they write those articles about something that she does related to Obama's foreign policy and people claim she's doing a great job, are they just saying that because she is "one of the most famous women in the world"?

[jenmito]

90. Ummm, if Obama didn't choose her to be his SOS, her name wouldn't even be IN polls.

I hate to give YOU a reality check, but HE was more popular than HER when it counted-when they were running for the same job. Her popularity now is thanks to him. :)

[Beacool]

94. Hillary would have still been a senator and her name will have definitely been in the polls.

Her political life didn't start with Obama and it certainly won't end with him either (unless she chooses to do so).

As for 2008, he was an unknown commodity and many people were swayed by his rhetoric. He did market himself very well and ran a good campaign, but let's not forget that more registered Democrats voted for Hillary.

So, to state that Hillary's popularity is owed to Obama is not only arrogant, but quite laughable.

:7

[PBS Poll-435]

96. Ladies, Ladies

Let's not start any of this crap again.

[Beacool]

107. OK, OK............

But you're ruining all the fun.

:-(



:D

[PBS Poll-435]

109. Usually the life of the party....

:(




J/K



:D

[SeattleGirl]

87. Well thank gawd! I can finally rest easy.

:sarcasm:

[PBS Poll-435]

92. OMG! I love these threads. Used to call them 'Flypaper'.

Where my Friends, "Friends", and FRiends all show up in one place!


:grouphug:

[Beacool]

97. Hi, sweetie!!

How's life?

:hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

98. Pretty hot.

Heat index will be 98-105 for the rest of the week.

But at least it is my "less-busy" season.


How are you?

[Beacool]

110. Yeah, TX can be pretty hot.

I'm OK, enjoying the World Cup. The weather is not too bad in "Joisey". Today was a beautiful day with low humidity, but it'll be close to 90 by the weekend. Great beach weather for those who are going to the shore.

Take care!!

:pals:

[PBS Poll-435]

111. Yep. But we normally wait until July/August for the heat waves

This year, I could swim at night comfortably in MAY.

Enjoy the WC!

:pals:

[Beacool]

112. Thanks!!!

Stay cool!!

:hug:

[AspenRose]

119. That's a clever way of putting it - I like it.

Friends, "Friends" and "FRiends" -

That's the truth

[ZombieHorde]

102. I had a really hard time telling the difference between Clinton and Obama during the primaries.

I eventually favored Obama over Clinton because I thought Clinton's sniper comment was pretty damaging.

[onehandle]

114. They were virtually identical.

By the time Super Tuesday rolled around, I had no favorite. Both could win and that the winner would be a decent centrist Democrat.

No liberal paradise was forthcoming, but neither was the nightmare of McCain and his then unknown cement shoes... I mean VP choice.

[Arkana]

103. WaPo are controversy whores

and if anyone thinks that Hillary herself gives a shit about her approval ratings they're on crack.

[undeterred]

104. Probably Obama's best appointment yet was Hillary Clinton.

She is an excellent Secretary of State. She may be one of the few people who makes Obama's job easier because she's so good at her job.

[McCamy Taylor]

105. Americans always like the SOS better.

[Whisp]

115. the woman he 'cut down'. o for fucks sake.

Tuzla!
McCain would be a better choice for president!
Shame on you, Barack Obama!
As far as I know he's not a Muslim.


:rofl:

[Beacool]

117. She never said that McCain would have been a better president.

Only that he had experience and she had experience. Meaning that she would be the better candidate to go against him. Regardless, in 2008 anyone with a "D" after their name would have won after Bush and the economic collapse.

She was right to call him out on the healthcare handouts that his campaign was handing out in IN, which smeared her positions on the issue.

As for the he's not Muslim, Kroft asked her the question more than once, that was her final answer.

:shrug:

[harry_pothead]

116. Hey I'd take back my primary vote, if I could.

(Voted for Obama, now would vote for Hillary)

[Mickeyc1004]

120. With who?

Hillary has always been father to the right than Obama, and if Hillary ran today she would still lose.

I voted for Obama and I won't even think about changing my vote.

Enough said.

[Jim Sagle]

121. Last I checked, she and Obama are on the same team

It may be helpful to think of them that way.

[Metric System]

122. Like a phoenix from the ashes...or a zombie from the grave- this thread's back. Sigh.

[GlennWRECK]

123. And I suspect that Obama's margins will only dip further

Sadly enough.
Obama is no Clinton.

[FrenchieCat]

124. Funny you should say that,

cause when I look at the repeal of Glass-Steagall, failure of health care reform, implementation of Welfare reforms, signing of NAFTA, DOMA, DADT and the telecommunications act of 1996, I'd say you are correct, Obama is and will be reversing a few of Clinton's work.

So yeah.....Obama doesn't have a Dot.com boom to make him look good,
but hey....dem the breaks! :shrug:

[boppers]

125. Maybe she should run for president?

:shrug:

[Beacool]

126. As if the fur hadn't flown enough the first time around, someone revived this thread?

:7

[Phx_Dem]

128. Not hard to be popular when you're not making any tough decisions.