when a former president of any nation goes on national TV and defends torturing other human beings

[spanone]

without a hint of regret and with all the power of hindsight.














there is little hope left.

imho

[Octafish]

1. The guy is satanic.

Look what comes out of his mouth: "Money Trumps Peace."

[Still Blue in PDX]

17. I am not sure that satanists are this evil.

It would requiring some reading to check up on that.

[Vincardog]

2. And when the Current President REFUSES to do ANYTHING about it: There is NO hope left

[EFerrari]

7. Obama is funding the Kopassus, special forces in Indonesia

lifting a 12 year ban on this bunch of murderers. I'm speechless.

As Obama Arrives in Jakarta, Secret Docs Show U.S.-Backed Indonesian Special Forces Unit Targets Papuan Churches, Civilians

President Obama arrived in Indonesia today on the second stop of a ten-day trip to Asia. It’s Obama’s first state visit to Indonesia after having lived there for four years as a child. We go to Jakarta to speak with investigative journalist and activist Allan Nairn, who has just released secret documents from Kopassus—the feared Indonesian special forces—which has been responsible for human rights abuses since the 1950s. Earlier this year, the Obama administration lifted a 12-year funding ban for the training of Kopassus. While Obama talks about human rights, the documents indicate that Kopassus targets churches and civilians and includes a Kopassus enemies list topped by a local Baptist minister in West Papua. Nairn will continue to release documents on his website AllanNairn.com.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/9/as_obama_arrives_in_jakarta_secret

[chill_wind]

31. ! Why?

How many people caught that or knew? I didn't.

Kopassus-- for those (like me) not familiar or up on their record

Kopassus has been accused by numerous NGO's and Western politicians of human rights violations. Amnesty International and KOMNASHAM (Indonesian human rights groups) have cited alleged abuses by purported members of Kopassus.

Four members of Kopassus were convicted of the strangulation killing of Theys Eluay, the former chairman of the Papuan Presidium Council. After admitting the killing after ambushing him and his driver, two received prison sentences of three and a half years and two others received just three years.<2>

As TNI members, the Kopassus are/were legally exempt from civil law jurisdiction trial and a military inquiry found them innocent of all charges. The principal members of the alleged "murder" were all of Group V (Jakarta) and not based in Jayapura nor West Papua, and the "supposed ring-leader Let-Col Hatono got three and a half years jail and two other officers were not even discharged. The ruling Jakarta perspective on the "murder" was affirmed by army Chief Ryamizard Ryacudu: "accepted the men had to face sentence because Indonesia is a State based on law. However he said the men are heroes to kill a rebel leader. Defense lawyers who are appealing the verdicts, have also described the alleged "killers" as heroes"<3>

Kopassus members have also been reported by eyewitness accounts to have been involved in carrying and supervising the Jakarta May 1998 riot and the mass gang-rape and murder of Chinese Indonesian women and girls. <4>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopassus

Is this thought to be related?

In a graphic 10-minute video posted on YouTube last month, six soldiers were shown torturing two Papuan detainees, burning their genitals and threatening them with a knife and a gun in order to obtain information.

Some activists in Papua, where Kopassus and other units of the TNI are widely accused of gross rights abuses, have called on foreign governments to cease all cooperation with the Indonesian military in light of such disturbing evidence.

However, other rights activists argue that greater cooperation is needed to expedite military reforms.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/us-to-lift-ban-on-kopassus/387325

22 October 2010 Last updated at 05:26 ET
Indonesia confirms Papua torture
By Karishma Vaswani BBC News, Jakarta

Indonesia has admitted the men in the video are members of the military.

Indonesia has admitted that the men seen torturing Papuan villagers in a video uploaded on the internet earlier this week are members of the military.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11604361

United States to Lift Ban on Kopassus
Camelia Pasandaran & Ismira Lutfia | July 23, 2010
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/us-to-lift-ban-on-kopassus/387325

[EFerrari]

33. I don't know.

It was hard to hear what Nairn was saying this morning, I'll have to go over the transcript. This is his life's working, covering this story. :(

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. In America, No one is above the law....unless it's politically expedient.

[leftstreet]

16. +1

[emilyg]

29. +1,000

[The Wielding Truth]

3. Only in the Hague. Who will stand for justice?Our leaders are kicking it down the road.

How would * feel if someone in his family were tortured? Would it mean something to him then? He is still as disgusting as ever.

[spanone]

4. where are the world courts? i've been asking this for 2 years...we have a confession

[The Wielding Truth]

6. If any president deserved to be impeached,Bush did!

[iamtechus]

19. If we fail to act.

The ICC can take the matter up and charge GW along with any who conspired with him. They could conceivably issue arrest warrant(s) and they could be picked up anytime they left the country.

[hfojvt]

5. I think most people are gonna disagree

"other human beings"

Don't you understand? They are not other human beings, they are grups. Bonk, bonk on the head! Bonk, bonk!

[The Wielding Truth]

8. Why is it that when a Republican opens their mouth it nauseates me.

I try to listen for reason, but I become so disgusted it's as if they are physically hurting someone and it sickens me.

[hfojvt]

15. Because you cannot handle the truth?

Well I spent most of 8 years being unable or unwilling to listen to Bush. The lies and stupidity were too much to take.

Why are we talking about this, again?

[spanone]

18. because HE'S talking about it.

[hfojvt]

23. ah, the dangers of pronouns

what exactly does "this" mean in my question? And what does "he" mean in your answer?

[The Wielding Truth]

32. Are you saying Republicans speak the truth? You must be kidding.

[hfojvt]

34. Of course I was kidding

but you did set yourself up for a classic movie line comeback. If we'd been arguing, I woulda scored a palpable hit with that one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Correct...the Rubicon is well behind us

[political_Dem]

11. A sociopath was in the WH. He had eight years of enjoying himself at the expense of this country.

Save Andrew Jackson, W. was probably the most bloodthirsty POTUS this country ever had.

[RainDog]

12. when the people of that nation shrug at the use of torture

it is the people of the nation who are repulsive. their leaders are a reflection of their own sadism.

[opihimoimoi]

13. Picture Il Duce of Italy in full DELUSION and ya get W

He is beyond Reprehensible...REPULSIVE EVEN

Yikes...."Look...he is chiseling his own Epitah ...."HERE LIES THE GREATEST DECIDER THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN"..."

No one told him those were fucking wicked bad "Decisions???"


OMG...and he get the "Epitaph Pass"......? he gets to write his own?

WTF???

[WCGreen]

14. America Jumped the shark...

[malaise]

20. 100% correct

Planet earth is inhabited by criminals at the top.

[StarburstClock]

21. No matter how illegal, immoral and barbaric we're still told to "move along"

by a complicit government. No accountability = no change.

[Greyhound]

22. None whatsoever. This is exactly why the impeachment process is in The Constitution,

and why Presidents are liable to criminal prosecution after leaving office as well. We used to at least pay lip service to being a nation of laws.
:kick: & R

[annabanana]

24. More in the gallery of torturers:

Alberto Gonzales


Barbara Fast


David Addington


Geoffrey Miller


Jay Bybee


John Yoo


Marc Warren


George Tenet


Stephen A. Cambone


Thomas Pappas


William James Shaynes II


Wojdakowski

[Vincardog]

25. Add Cheney

[annabanana]

26. He was in the OP. . .n/t

[NuclearDem]

28. Each and every one of those bastards

who let it go on, who authorized it, who turned a blind eye to it happening, who denied it, who lied about it, and who wrote the instruction manual on how to do it.

All of them need to be in prison.

[earth mom]

27. I still can't believe they are not all in the Hague!

:wtf:

[Senator]

30. K&+R

[Solly Mack]

35. k&r