All right, God damn it, that's it.

[WilliamPitt]

Ever since the Coalkey-Brown race started getting tight, and started getting national attention, I've seen quite a lot of people on this board who are barely able to hide their glee at the prospect of a Democratic defeat.

"That'll show 'em!"..."'em" being the DLC, Obama, the Democrats in general, or whatever.

It'll help kill the health care bill if Brown wins!

This is just the taste of what the Dems can expect in November!

The smile behind these kinds of comments is impossible to miss, but I've noticed something else.

Not one - NOT ONE - of the posters I've seen reveling in an imminent Democratic defeat IS FROM MASSACHUSETTS.

I am.

So how's this?

Go fuck up your own goddam state, and stop cheerleading for the fucking up of mine.

Thank you.

End transmission.

[Robb]

1. Oh, sure.

My state is going to be all fucked up. Me me me me me me. :D

[spanone]

2. kick

[Maraya1969]

229. If a person routs for a Democratic defeat they are supposed to be tossed,

End of story. Bye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


Please everyone alert the mods when you see any such post and please mods get rid of these people. They are not Democratic and are not allowed on the board from what I understand about the rules.

[wial]

234. yeah but what about in this case

where if Coakley loses we have a very real chance of getting single payer via reconciliation? I'm sure she'd make a fine senator, but isn't social justice more important? We'd lose some of the other provisions of the bill, and it would still be possible to get single payer after the current bill passes, but you know the good dems (as opposed to Nelson et al) would ram it through with some meaningful fiscal reform if they didn't have to pander to the supermajority, while they might think they've done enough if she wins and the current awful bill gets signed.

I don't think it's anti-democratic to not want to be held hostage by Joe Lieberman.

Still, I can't even countenance the idea of letting a republican take the seat defended for the people of Massachusetts so ably and so long by the great Ted Kennedy. So don't kick me off the board.

We can also hope Diebold finally gets caught red-handed this time.

[Capn Sunshine]

269. you've got to be fucking kidding me

if Coakley loses, it's back to business as usual-"usual" being what happened the last eight years.

Reconciliation? Don't make me laugh. The Healthcare Bill you all hate so much will go away permanently. For another generation. Enabling and emboldening corporate power and republican retrenchment from shambles in less that a year.

Well articulated. Thank you for your support.

[wial]

276. we don't hate it, we just find it rather pathetic in the circumstances

and by "we" I mean a lot of people. The majority of the American people want something far better than what's on offer, and with good reason. Most other countries, practically every country with anything approaching the standard of living of our middle classes (can't speak for the huge numbers of people left behind in conditions approaching those of Haiti, such as in inner city Chicago) have far better enforcement of human rights with regards to health care than we do.

on what basis do you threaten to mock the strategy a large portion of the US congress is considering as a backup plan? Why the vituperative tone?

The whole country has been held hostage by Lieberman and now the racist voting block of Massachusetts. Who would not feel disgusted by this? It's not democracy in the slightest.

Thanks for your "understanding".

[smoogatz]

281. So let me get this straight--if Coakley loses

a miracle will occur, and presto change-o we'll have single freaking payer, despite the fact that it's on virtually nobody's to do list right now, and light years from ANY public discussion of helathcare reform being held anywhere outside Kucinich's office? Whatever you're smoking, no thanks--I'll pass. It evidently makes people delusional.

[AspenRose]

3. K&R

And :popcorn: for the inevitable "it's a free country, I can say what I want" comments that are sure to infect this thread

[KittyWampus]

17. STOP CENSORING ME!!!

you are exactly right.

whoot! I should have read this entire thread. Someone already started.

[WilliamPitt]

20. See post 14

:eyes:

[Goldstein1984]

143. Damn the freedom of expression...

Always infecting things.

[laughingliberal]

190. Lol! nt

[RBInMaine]

4. Getting a little sick and tired of NON-"progressive" bitching, whining, pissing, and moaning.

[annabanana]

5. I am SO with you Will. .

(-brought up the the Bay State and still consider it home base)

[azmouse]

6. Absofuckinglutely!

It's what DU has become and what many of us are fighting against!

[mac56]

7. K & R.

William Pitt, FTW.

:applause:

[saracat]

8. Frankly, I am horrified at what is happening in Mass. Teddy's seat shouldn't even be in play.

My state is already f'ed up but this gives me chills.

[defendandprotect]

162. Agree . . .. MA is a liberal state -- could this be groundwork for a steal????

Meanwhile, did you guys actually elect Romney?

Did NJ actually elect Christie?

I think as long as we have computer voting -- and the LARGE computers used

by corporate press to do anything but actually REPORT actual returns, then

I think we have a problem. But, that's been obvious since at least 2000 and

onward -- and to some others since these things began to come in during the

mid-and-late 1960's.

Keep in mind the LARGE computers gave corporate press the additional power of

PREDICTING and CALLING elections -- not something they previously had!

Fox/Jon Ellis in 2000 simply REVERSED that new power.

[TayTay]

187. IT'S NOT TEDDY'S SEAT

Teddy Kennedy was a wonderful man and the people of Massachusetts elected him to their Senate seat because he was a wonderful man who grew old with us. He is gone now.

That seat belongs to the people of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. To even state that this is Teddy Kennedy's seat is arrogance of the first order and a major reason why this Senate race is so up for grabs.

For the love of God, why is this concept so hard to grasp?

[The Wielding Truth]

201. It's not arrogant. It's the best way to describe the location of the seat.

[TayTay]

208. Sure, if you don't actually live here. nt

[The Wielding Truth]

212. Yep.

[saracat]

231. Arrogance , really?Perhaps I should have said Teddy's former seat

but as a NYer who used to refer to NY as Bobby's seat with far less years to go on, I make no apologies. Many more people than myself and my Mass relatives still refer to this as Teddy's seat! No offense is meant .And the fact that Mass is generally considered to be a blue or liberal state has never been in dispute.The concept that is so hard to grasp is that why anyone would be offended that Ted's seat is decribed as having been his? He earned it.

[MADem]

262. Well, Martha wasn't Teddy's choice....so what is your point?

Teddy wanted his wife to take the seat. The one touting that "Teddy's seat" POV is....Scott "I posed Naked In Cosmopolitan Magazine" Brown....

Now I'll go back to lurking.

I agree with Pitt--there's too much crapola up in here.

[berni_mccoy]

9. The hate for the Democratic Party and Obama by some members has made DU rancid for some time now.

[SidDithers]

71. +1...

This town needs an enema.

Sid

Edit: corrected poorly remembered quote

[ncteechur]

144. +2000

[tallahasseedem]

145. Sad isn't it?

Completely unrecognizable.

[defendandprotect]

167. Start addressing WAR and Health Care corporatism . . ..

and cut the act with "how everyone hates Obama/Dems" . . ..

We HATE what they are doing!!

[defendandprotect]

163. We "HATE" the wars they haven't stopped ... we "HATE" corporate/fascism and the health care fiasco..

the corporatists have produced --

Dems/Obama were elected -- in fact 3 years ago -- to END THE WAR ...

and to legislate universal health care reform.

Not happening -- THAT we "hate."

[Chulanowa]

204. You hate basic cognitive thought, too?

The US involvement in World War 2 didn't end until 1952 when we ceased occupation of Germany. That was seven years after the war officially ended. We didn't leave Japan until 1951. it took us seven and six years, respectively, after the war ended to actually end the war and bring our guys home.

Now just to nip your shrieking "counterargument" in the bud, no, I'm not saying this is "just like world war 2". I'm saying that it took well over five years to draw a close to occupations after the fighting had stopped.

Obama's had a few days shy of a single year, and is facing two fronts that are still fighting. You expect him to drop his pants and haul ass anyway. I hate to be the bearer of intelligent thought but, that's not fucking possible. What is possible is beginning a drawing down process that will lead to removal of our forces from iraq, and a surge in Afghanistan to re-stabilize that country and get things in order before we begin to leave. THe Democrats both before and during the obama administration have been working towards both.

I'm sorry you and the others with this instant withdrawal thing are unhappy. But it's your own damn fault for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

And as for health care. Again, yeah, it'd be nice to poof, instantly have single-payer public health care for all. It'd be really damn nice. But it's not going to happen, at least not in a single bill. Anyone who told you otherwise was either dreaming or lying, and that includes you convincing yourself. Reform moves at a slug's pace in this country, and our government is designed with that in mind. This health care bill is far from perfect, but it is a step in that direction.

Right now, you lot just sound like kids who are shouting and screaming because your mommy didn't rush to the cereal aisle to pick up your sugar-coated corn syrup puffs first thing, and is instead picking up things with actual nutritional value.

[defendandprotect]

216. The day Obama eloped into the White House with DLC and corporatist crowd . ..

is when the count began -- and it was a knock-out punch.

Corporate-fascism isn't democracy --

and it doesn't provide health care which any other nation has or wants-!!

Give up the time machine -- it's over.

And I see you're closing with the "spoiled brat/pony" argument --

That's all over, as well -- unless you want to continue to make a fool of yourself.

Find out what's really going on -- and wake up!

[Chulanowa]

222. In my general experience...

People who admonish others to "wake up" are the ones who are barely lucid and tend to be self-absorbed cocks who are absolutely certain that the CIA is going to steal their toenails.

OMG CAN'T YOU SEE?! It's all RIGHT THERE!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Even if you're a great guy, it just makes you sound like Glen Beck. Stoppit.

Next... Yes, I am closing with the spoiled brat / pony argument, because that's exactly what you are. Damn the realities, full whine ahead! You didn't get exactly what you want, exactly when you want it, so you're throwing a fucking tantrum. You have no concept of how any of this works, and you don't WANT a concept, because that might pop the precious bubble that is your private fucking universe.

You want to throw the "Wake up" cliche at me? I'm gonna throw one back. Grow up. Educate yourself. You're an embarassment to yourself and others.

[defendandprotect]

227. Keep us with "liberals as spoiled brats/want a pony" and you'll hear a lot of ...

"Wake up!" calls --

You're on ignore --

Bye --

[Leopolds Ghost]

240. Well of course he didn't get what he wanted, because other Dems disagree on what's wanted.

If other Dems want the opposite... well... let's just say it seems like aside from pro-choice there's no litmus test and a bunch of people who claim to be part of the same party who want completely opposite things, and have been patting some of us on the back.

[Jester Messiah]

251. Bump for rationality. Bravo! [nt]

[tomp]

255. complete loser. nt

[duhneece]

219. It reminds me of the 'harm reduction' of public health

Moving in the right direction.
There are times when shooting heroin with a clean needle is a step in the right direction (if you've been shooting heroin with needles shared among a dozen people).
There are times when eating one doughnut is a step in the right direction (if you've been eating a half-dozen doughnuts every morning and you had a big bowl of oatmeal before you ate that one doughnut).

All reflections from one familiar with my community.

[defendandprotect]

228. There is never a time when corporate/fascism is freedom . . . or health care -!!!

[Leopolds Ghost]

238. Wait, no offense, I'm not part of this argument, but are you saying the surge is a good thing?

I thought that Democrats were, in general, opposed to the surge in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Cha]

265. They most definetly

hate basic cognitive thought! It's all about their instant gratification..well, it's not about them and jane hamsher's coffer.

Thank you, Chulanowa, for putting it so well.

[shellgame26]

206. so where's your third party

alternative? And why aren't they running a candidate from now when there's no electoral college in play? WHy do they only wait every 4 years to run someone? If you are fed up with the dems then run somebody, yourself and organize (like Obama did) otherwise quit whining!

It's so stupid to see so-called liberals unfazed by the prospect of a widescale dem. defeat. SInce this has been upside down land for quite sometime now, maybe they're not really liberal, they just think they are. WHat they really are are elitist snobs that don't understand how small changes can help people (who don't happen to be them) for the moment.

Must really hurt walking around without a nose. BUT DAMMIT! NOW MY FACE KNOWS WHO'S BOSS!

[defendandprotect]

215. Understand that Howard Dean ENDED the defeats . . . as long as you have DLC control

you will have defeat and a corporatist agenda --

Why a third party? How about a Dem Party free from corporate control?

It is the DLC which ensures and bargains for Democratic Party defeat --

Howard Dean reversed that trend -- and DLC is moving back that way again!

So . . . liberals are "elitist snobs" now . . . ??

And you want to be taken seriously?


Corporatism/fascism isn't democracy -- and it certainly doesn't provide universal

health care that any other nation has -- or wants to have!!

Wake up!

[sunnystarr]

232. WOW so the answer is to vote REPUG???

What's wrong with you people!!

[smoogatz]

174. Yep.

Can hardly stand it here, most of the time. Not that I'm all that thrilled with the evident inability/unwillingness of the Democrats to deliver anything other than halting, incremental change--but it still beats the hell out of the last assholes. Most of the hard-core Obama haters are either freeper trolls or leftover Nader loons--unfortunately there are so many of them now they pretty much drown out anyone with any sense.

[pundaint]

192. You confuse disagreement with policies, and withholding of support as hate

I don't hate the party, I sure do hate what they're doing, and It is unacceptable. I do hate the Republican Partyye because as an organization the seem to always choose stupidity. I am concerned that our Democratic incumbents have contracted the stupid, and need to be replaced by a fresh uncontaminated crowd. None of the incumbents I get to vote for have given me a reason to renew their contract yet, and although I will chose an unproven Democrat every time over an unproven Republican, when there is history to see, the bar gets higher. If you are governing as a republican, I'd rather you be a republican so their party gets the blame. I do not vote for people who govern like republicans, no matter what their party affiliation is.

The question is not do I hate democrats, the question is why do all these incumbent Democrats hate the Democratic platform, and the American People. That's not why any of us are Democrats, and that's not the type of governance we should accept from those who would represent our party.

[defendandprotect]

217. "Q: why do all these incumbent Democrats hate the Democratic platform, and the American People"-.

Nice post --

:)

[regnaD kciN]

220. + 1 million

[redqueen]

242. This ^

[MADem]

282. It's why I bailed out.

And I was a Clinton supporter in the primaries, and none too pleased at how she was treated.* That said, the situation here became toxic some time ago...

*On edit....but I got over that and got behind the President's agenda.

[kentuck]

10. Yours is not to question why...

Yours is to do or die.

[Hekate]

11. Damn straight, Will. KnR

[blondeatlast]

12. Knowing well what RRRepublican control can do, a-bsolute-men, Will.

Coakley's loss is a disaster (but maybe that's what some of them want).

[gaspee]

13. I'm not in your state

But I'm sick of the damn ads - I can't even imagine how sick of them you are. The only channel they're playing on is WLNE - which is a Providence station, but because Fall River and New Bedford are in the market (and the rest of that part of SE MA.) we're getting bombarded with the commercials.

I haven't seen any of what you're talking about here on DU, but I have been stressed out and not online much, trying to get medical care for my mother, but I have every confidence Coakley will win.

I can't imagine the people of MA will put a republican, and specifically *that* republican into Teddy's seat.

But then again, MA elected Romney, and I never thought they would. Go figure.

Edited to add: Of the people I know well enough in MA to ask if they're voting, most of the people I know are. They're evenly split - my dogshow friends are mostly right of center and will vote R - but the dogshow world tends to be full of fundys - and if that ain't funny, I don't know what is (selective breeding =- evolution... hello!) -- but my real friends and family are all voting D. And everyone I've asked is voting.

[Dhalgren]

14. I will think and speak as I like.

I will not ask anyone's permission. I can't vote in your state, so what I think or say should be of no concern to you. If it is of concern to you, then that is your problem and not mine. I have not written anything about this particular race, but if I choose to, I will. The outcomes of various races are not determined on discussion boards - who has said this in the past...oh, yeah...

[Robb]

27. I used to think like you

Then, sometime in 2003, Pitt wrote this post... I dunno, it was like any other I thought, and I read it, because that's what you do.

Suddenly I felt this warm glow envelop me. I felt myself lifted two inches off my seat. My mouth filled with the taste of cooked peas.

Anyhow, from that point forward I found myself physically unable to post anything that disagreed with him. Whenever I tried, it felt like a nightstick was between my shoulder blades. Weird.

So, good luck I guess is what I'm saying.

[WilliamPitt]

28. "My mouth filled with the taste of cooked peas"

Holy.

Shit.

:rofl:

Dingbat.

;)

:rofl:

[Hekate]

Jeez, what WAS that?! roflmao

[name not needed]

114. If I remember correctly, WillPitt once fought off a mugger with a can of peas.

[tavalon]

142. Almost correct

It was a can of Chef-Boy-Ardee (sp?).

[Robb]

151. "Bought." He "bought" off a mugger

...with a can of Chef Boyardee. :D

[WilliamPitt]

178. It was Chef Boy-R-Dee beef ravioli

Actually.

True story. :)

[kimmerspixelated]

129. I was gonna say, Dad!!!!!... You're Home!!!

but clearly Robb is DA MAN, now!!!!!!:spray:

[SidDithers]

73. K&R this thread...

but mostly for this post :rofl:

Sid

[mnhtnbb]

133. Ewwww. I HATE cooked peas. Always have. Always will.

[stevedeshazer]

148. That's one of the funniest fucking things I've ever read on DU.

:rofl:

[hyphenate]

191. Are you sure it was cooked peas?

I vaguely remember them as whirled.

[Leopolds Ghost]

241. So, where were you when you accepted William Pitt into your heart? :-)

[Robb]

254. LOL

New sigline. :D

[MineralMan]

46. And a big bronx cheer for you...

[Hekate]

56. By the time Feinstein is up in the Calif. General election, I hope you will have figured it all out.

Because you do NOT want whoever her Repub opponent is to be in the US Senate.

Screw up your own district.

Hekate

[Webster Green]

198. I voted against that dumbass the last time she ran..

I voted for a progressive democratic challenger in the primary, and left the Senatorial slot blank in the general election because DiFi was the candidate.

I hate her, and will never vote for her again.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

164. And we'll say what we want about you. n/t

[Dhalgren]

246. Knock yourself out. What you say about me is completely

meaningless. Just as is what I say about this or that election. This is a DISCUSSION board - that's all. It isn't some great "epicenter" of "Democratic Power". What a hoot! You guys are so funny; you write shit, I write shit, we read the shit and that is it. That is what all this is - just folks writing shit and reading shit...

[Maraya1969]

230. If you rout for a republican you are in violation of the rules and should be tossed.

Please people alert the mods when you see anything like that was said in the OP. And mods please get these fleas off of our board.

[Dhalgren]

245. I have never "routed" for a republican...

.

[Tippy]

15. K&R.......BUT. BUT.BUT,......If Coakley loses we all lose,,,

That is what many here still don't realize.....

[gateley]

42. +1

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

16. I've noticed the same thing.

And it's pissing me off. :grr:

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. This Kansan can't recommend your post highly enough

Brownback will be my next governor partly because of shit like this.

Thank you Will! :hi:

[City Lights]

19. K&R!

:yourock:

[Demeter]

21. I Lived in Your State, Will

And frankly, it was so fucked up then (70's, 80's, 90's) that it's unlikely that it can or will get any worse. The so-called Health care bill, however, should go down in the flames it has so richly earned. We could do much better if Obama had this little reality check from the grassroots. He might actually get a clue.

[HillGal]

200. I hate to tell you this, but if Brown wins? the congress and senate will go right

they're going to see this as a referendum on Obama and liberalism, if Brown wins what was an assured Democratic seat, and if independents put Brown over the top? you can say goodbye to any liberal policies passing. This is an election year, people care about jobs, they're worried about their future and they're going to blame democrats for not focusing on it, and if the new unemployment figures over go 11%? cap and trade and amnesty which were going to be proposed? won't happen at all.

[JoeyT]

207. What liberalism?

I can't say I've seen any liberal policies. The closest they've come is dead center, and they don't do that on most things.
They're already working on more free trade agreements, so good luck with that whole "jobs" thing.

[HillGal]

210. There are independents out there who consider the spending that's been done

liberalism, and as we're seeing now, they're fair weather friends, they go back and forth back and forth, and I'm tired of them driving the agenda, and they are now, like it or not. You have Nelson being driven out of a pizza place, some democrats are scared already, if Brown wins? it's going to shift.

[Warpy]

22. OK, two points

First, I'm from Massachusetts, although remotely. I lived there longer than I've ever lived anywhere else and I was a an adult when I did it, so I know the state and how ornery a lot of the people are and I love them for it.

Second, I don't see it as a cheerleading as much as a warning to the conservatives in the party that they're throwing victory away with both hands the way they've done ever since Johnson went out of power. Being conservatives, they won't learn from their mistakes. Being conservatives, they won't listen to us. We have to work to defeat them and that's what this is all about.

Face it, Coakley has a history and not all of it is good. Face it, she's run a lackluster campaign. Face it, Brown is a pretty boy who tells angry people what they want to hear.

That's why people are rubbing party conservative noses into what's going on in Mass. Kennedy's seat should have been a sure thing. Unfortunately, party conservatives treated it that way.

[Tippy]

29. Telling angry people what they want to hear...

That is it in a nut shell....And some on DU have been giving them talking points....

[gateley]

55. Well put! nt

[laughingliberal]

90. +1 nt

[lunatica]

23. I'm from California. You can trash it if you want and I won't mind

It deserves it when it comes to Prof 8

[abelenkpe]

250. I'm from CA too

Please DO NOT mess up our state. And don't express glee at our economic woes.

Prop 8 was an embarrassment....but hopefully the courts will throw that stupid discriminatory law out.

[tridim]

24. Thank gawd for the "ignore" feature

I doubt I could stand DU these days without it.

[gateley]

57. I just reactivated my ignore list yesterday. It has been so long since I added

someone, I'd forgotten how to do it.

The two remaining on the list (and I have no recollection of why I banished them there) have since been TS'd. :7

[treestar]

25. Absolutely. Geez, I can't believe this board sometimes.

[goclark]

26. Superman ~ William Pitt! Thank you, thank you, thank you

This post makes me want to stand up and :bounce:

[pipi_k]

30. Yeah, what's up with that shit anyway?

I'm from Mass too.

I have to live here, and I don't want Brown to win.


Bad enough that Teddy's seat has to go to a non-Kennedy....and for all that Victoria Kennedy says it wasn't Teddy's seat, that it belonged to the people, I feel that Teddy WAS "the people".

So it'll be hard enough seeing his seat go to someone else...but to see it go to a dyed-in-the-wool Republican weasel....that's just too much to even think of.



Like you said, let others fuck up their own states and leave ours alone.

[Heidi]

31. Alert on 'em, Will. It's against the DU rules to work for the defeat of the Dem nominee

in an election. I don't post a word in reply to those working for Coakley's defeat. I alert on them. Early and often. :-)

[jgraz]

39. I'm sure he would alert if those posts actually existed.

Note the lack of links in the OP.

[Heidi]

51. Search GD using the key word Coakley. There was a blatant

OP attempt to defeat Coakley locked within the past 24 hours. Posts like that DO exist.

[jgraz]

62. I don't see a post asking a valid question as an "attempt to defeat Coakley"

And, sadly, the question that OP asked *is* one that many Democrats are asking these days.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

111. Wait one God damned minute

jgraz and I are not on the best of terms by any means, but she is a long-time DUer of good standing. I can personally vouch for jgraz's good heart and intentions as a poster here, even if/when we wildly and angrily disagree.

Don't go waving tombstones in people's faces. You might wind up getting measured for one of your own.

[jgraz]

189. Oh shit, sounds like I missed a good one.

Thanks for the backup, Will, Cheers. :hi:

[WilliamPitt]

54. Calling out specific DUers is against DU rules

But you knew that.

[jgraz]

60. So is continuing arguments from other threads - especially ones that have been locked

But you knew that.

Since I asked, how 'bout you post one link to one OP where such a response appears? I'm curious about the kind of posts that are setting you off and how you're interpreting them.

[Heidi]

63. The thread to which I referred wasn't lcked as an argment or flamefest, and

I told you how to find it. Why don't you do that instead of implying that Will and I are liars? (It's also against the rules to say or imply that a DUer is a liar or that his her post is a lie.) Also, if you feel Will's OP here is disruptive, you can hide it, put him on ignore or alert on him. Or all of the above. See how that works?

[jgraz]

67. Wow, oversensitive much?

No one implied that you were lying, just perhaps misinterpreting certain posts -- which is easy to do if you don't bother to reference what you're quoting.

And it's not against the rules to imply that someone is lying. But you knew that. (Oh, did you not like that implication?)

[Faryn Balyncd]

32. Your posts inspire me, WP... But if this bill is political suicide, it will damage us all.

So I must respectfully disagree.

[Schema Thing]

36. bullshit

not passing this very good healthcare bill would destroy Democrats.


Not to mention be fucking stupid and worse, evil.

[berni_mccoy]

64. +1

[JVS]

74. "this very good healthcare bill"

:rofl:

[Schema Thing]

83. why do you laugh?

No one has to love it, but to not like it is fucking idiocy.

It's got tons of great stuff in it, it helps almost everyone, hurts no one, provides decent coverage to millions, and will save lives.

[JVS]

84. I'm interested in knowing what you would consider a bad health care bill to be.

Or a mediocre one, for that matter.

[Schema Thing]

98. I'm interested in knowing why you'd oppose something so full of progress?

This bill isn't what I wanted, but it's real, substantial progress.

If you did an amalgamation of all the various candidate's Democratic Presidential Health-care reform platforms from 2004 and 2008, you'd come up with something less than this.

So just wtf is everyone bitching about?

[JVS]

102. Probably the insurance mandate that Obama correctly lambasted in the primaries.

I was on board with him then. Not anymore.

[Schema Thing]

105. jesus christ

I guess there are single issue people, and then there are sub-issue of single issue people.

Virtually every country in the world with anything approaching universal healthcare has a "mandate" of one sort or another.

I'd like to see the heads of the heads of insurance companies spiked on stakes too, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. It galls (pardon the pun) me to have to pay them for insurance... but at least I'll have insurance for the first time in my self-employed life, and it will be actual, decent (not great) insurance that won't break me or make me afraid to use it if I need it.

[JVS]

106. He also talked about a public option last year, but tossed that aside.

I don't much trust him anymore, and I think he's gotten us a shitty bill.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

109. Bad bill, good insurance company bailout.

[stuart68]

118. Health Insurance Stocks are WAAYYYY up !

a sign of good things to come for them.

[Hansel]

158. All stocks are way up. nt

[stuart68]

188. not bad for an industry that is going to be put in its place.

[defendandprotect]

184. I think you'd better find out what everyone is . . .

"bitching about" --

Why are we privatizing health care -- with the hated insurance companies ---

the "for profit" health industry - pharma -- and no deal for "Negotiation" on prices!!!

There is no progress here -- this is going backwards!!

[grahamhgreen]

256. The bill will kill reform, not enact it.

[laughingliberal]

92. "helps almost everyone, hurts no one..."

:rofl:

I am sincerely hoping we hold this Senate seat but it doesn't mean I'm going to eat poop and pretend it's chocolate pudding.

[theFrankFactor]

176. I know. CUE: Lowered expectations music.

Free Q-Tips for all. Wow, look what Democrat majorities accomplished! Please sir, may I have another?

Fuckin' piece of shit bill constructed by sell out shills and DINOS's and what will we do about it? Can you imagine the kick ass Health Care bill a Republican MINORITY could get if they wanted it?

Unified Corporate Party.

You lose.

[DutchLiberal]

91. Which very good healthcare bill?

Did I miss something? :shrug:

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[galileoreloaded]

128. And only a well conditioned slave would intentionally sacrifice their

countrymen to corporate neo-feudalism at the altar of "progress".

Aetna in your portfolio, huh. Good for you.

This isn't the "Wizard of Oz", and your not Dorthy. You can't click your heels together and "go home again".

[laughingliberal]

194. +1 nt

[DutchLiberal]

147. No need for calling names. Or is that the best you can do?

Where's the progress exactly? I must not have seen it.

[Schema Thing]

well then you should read up on the bill

Because it is chock full of progress. If you're a progressive that is.


You know, things like providing Medicaid to millions more, subsidies for people up to 400% of poverty, caps on out of pocket, no more lifetime limits, much more reasonable yearly limits, can't exclude for pre-existing conditions in children, MLR of 85%, Tax credits for self-employed. And the list goes on and on.

You can get the details here: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM136_100104_health_reform_conference.html

[DutchLiberal]

169. I was expecting a public option. The one Obama now lies about never supporting?

That one. Instead, what we get is forcing 30 million people to buy insurance from a private insurance company.

I don't see how a bill that's one big present to the insurance companies is progressive.

But then again, I'm not a blinded party-over-principle cheerleader...

[Schema Thing]

173. all that great progressive stuff

is there for you to read in the link I provided.

[laughingliberal]

195. No need for the link. I've read the bill

and it's chock full of so many loopholes for the industry it looks like Swiss cheese. I'm not interested in whether people believe that or not. People will likely get a chance to enjoy it all for themselves around 2013 or 14.

[DutchLiberal]

278. No, what you're offering is a bandaid to temporarily stop the bleeding...

It's peanuts compared to what we were promised. (Public option.) It's even less than what we *really* wanted. (Single payer.)

[shellgame26]

211. Don't expect them to read anything

It's much more fun to bitch and moan. Reminds them of junior high. They have absolutely no historical perspective. They don't get that this healthcare bill is just a begining. Medicare , when it started was nothing compared to what it is now. But don't expect the instant gratificationists to get that.

[laughingliberal]

272. Medicare, when it started, was not run through private, for profit health insurance companies

who had been criminally screwing the American people for 20 years. And I don't need read a link to a summary of all the 'great' things in the bill. I've read the bill and the manager's amendment and every bill that was voted out of committee in the entire process. But don't let the fact get in your way.

[DutchLiberal]

279. You know what's 'junior high'? Saying that people who disagree "bitch and moan".

Don't adress the fact that the Public Option has been taken out. Don't adress the fact that Obama now lies about having ever supported it. Don't adress the fact that this bill forces millions of Americans to buy insurance from the same companies that have been fucking people out of coverage for the last decades. Just say the persons who disagree with you "bitch and moan". That'll teach them!

[Dhalgren]

157. The "Health Insurence Corporate Support Bill" sucks, period.

Only the Democratic loyalists don't seem to "get" it - everyone else does...

[Schema Thing]

165. No, it's very good.

not perfect, but very good.


Just admit that you want to punish the insurance companies more than you want to help people. I understand; I hate insurance companies with a white hot rage. I don't think they should exist.

That doesn't change the fact that this bill does great things for millions of people, helps all of America financially, and hurts no one.

[Dhalgren]

172. All I can say is that we have read different bills...

.

[laughingliberal]

196. I'm guessing the poster hasn't read the bill but the talking points at the link he provided

for everyone to see all the great, progressive stuff in there. Oh, goodie!

[defendandprotect]

170. This health care bill is corporate/fascism and will lead to further privatization ...

of Social Security and Medicare --

Stop going willingly into a downward spiral --

[GoCubsGo]

33. Well...

Those of us who live in states that are already fucked up don't want y'all to feel left out. :evilgrin:

But, seriously, I'm sick of it, too. And, I don't even live in your state. It's bad enough the MSM are all cheerleading for Brown 24/7.

[branders seine]

34. Your perception is false. That is not glee.

It is the grim realization that we told you so months ago and got screamed at, called names, ignored, and kicked off DU for it.

[Bobbie Jo]

81. It's juvenile and unproductive.

...not to mention, still wrong.

[laughingliberal]

197. +1000 nt

[JVS]

35. Don't confuse commenting on this clusterfuck for creating this clusterfuck.

[laughingliberal]

93. +1 nt

[JimWis]

37. K&R

[DFW]

38. My state is about as fucked up as you can get

I do not support your fellow Bay Staters doing likewise to yours, and have contributed to Coakley's campaign.
As they say in the Asterix series, alea iacta est (almost, anyway).

Please think of us when Bill White challenges the winner (or loser, depending on how you look at it) of the
Republican primary election for Governor of Texas in November.

[jgraz]

40. Links?

I'd love to see some of these posts of which you speak.

[Kahuna]

41. K&R. I've been fortunate enough to have missed those threads..But

I'll take your word for it because I know that many are rooting for Dems to lose.

[MineralMan]

43. WELL SAID!

[highplainsdem]

44. This is a US Senate race and affects all of us. I want Brown to lose. But that does not mean

that I have to be blind to the polls, and I believe Howard Dean is right to be worried about what will happen to the Democrats in November.

[skids]

45. I voted for Capuano. Tuesday I will vote for Coakley. n/t

[Land Shark]

47. Unless you're thinking PORK production, the party of a Senator doesn't much mess up or improve state

I'm not taking a position on the rest of the substance of the original post. The fact, if it holds, that posters are not from Massachusetts could well mean they are not as familiar with the choices in the race in Massachusetts.

[JVS]

77. Good point. We should be riding MA's ass for being on the verge of fucking up OUR Senate

How could they let it come to such a pass that a turd like Brown may sit in Teddy's seat?

[hlthe2b]

48. the past few days, this site has become unbeleivable...

As sad as the Haiti situation is, at least we get to see a "better" side of our fellow DUers with respect to that crisis.

I am empathetic as can be to my Massachusetts DUers... Remember, though that some of us are phone banking and helping to finance the critical last efforts to pull out a win for Coakley... Some of the outsider input is surely welcome. :shrug:

[kentuck]

49. I think this is mostly a Massachusetts problem.

I doubt that much we say on this discussion board will have much impact in that state. If the people of Massachusetts choose a Republican to fill the seat of Ted Kennedy, what does it say to the rest of America? I would say there is a problem somewhere but it's not here. It's there.

[HughMoran]

58. Incessant bashing from the left has had no effect?

Seriously - do you really believe that when a Party can't even count on the support of it's most liberal members, there are no negative consequences?

I beg to differ!

[laughingliberal]

95. My thoughts are bashing from the left is likely to have about the same effect as bashing on the left

Seriously, do you think when the party's most liberal members are insulted daily, they will be enthusiastic about the people who insult them? I can overlook it and still go vote for a Democrat I don't care for to keep a Republican from getting the seat but that's me. And a whole hell of a lot of voters on the left who never visit a message board have been getting the message loud and clear that their priorities are "fucking stupid." Those of us on here have no doubts left about the disdain of the new, moderate, Democratic party for us.

[theFrankFactor]

177. Let's Hope it Damn Well Does!

This lot needs to be flushed.

[gateley]

50. I'm sorry this is happen in MA -- being a non-resident, I assumed (I know)

that the seat would go to a Dem almost automatically.

Lawrence O'Donnell told the reality of MA -- Several Rep Governors, Teddy's coattails aren't really that long, health care may not be THE big issue (nor the heartstring-puller to "do it for Teddy").

If Lawrence O'D is aware of this, why weren't we? That the Dems (including Coakley, from what I hear) let it get to this point is coming back to bite us in the ass.

I don't want your state fucked up, WP, I don't want a Senator representing you and voting in the Senate who didn't want to give aid to 9/11 workers.

I've done some phone calling from home for Coakley the last few days, and will continue to do so until and into Tuesday.

I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll win this one. :pals:

[Warren Stupidity]

52. I am dismayed at losing Ted's seat.

I drove into northern mass this morning and was greated by a throng of teabaggery. Not one Coakley supporter to be seen.

I suspect that from my non-scientific sampling, we are going to get royally f'ed over on tuesday. I take no glee in that. I do note that OUR PARTY LEADERSHIP IS AN ABOMINATION. People are voting their emotions and right now they appear to be pissed as hell at Democrats. I find it hard to blame them.

[HughMoran]

53. ENTHUSIASTIC K&R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not in Mass any more, but I grew up there and I'm urging my family to go out and vote for Coakley.

Anybody working for the defeat of Coakley on this board should be banned immediately!

[johnaries]

59. Losing elections is NOT a strategy. nt

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

66. offhand, I'd suggest not posting on meth

but that is just me.

[WilliamPitt]

68. *spit*

:rofl:

[HughMoran]

80. Read their sig and you'll know all you need to know

;)

[JVS]

82. But generating a solid block of unpunctuated text helps hide his political views

[spanone]

70. red & elephant....hmmmm

[hlthe2b]

79. I have no idea what you've posted...

Your word salad with its absence of grammar, capitalization and paragraphs makes it impossible to read. You might have the most important and cogent thoughts imaginable to convey, but who the hell is going to weed through that? :shrug:

On edit, obviously not. :eyes:

[katanalori]

89. pizza has been DELIVERED!

buh buh BYE!

[sendero]

65. You sound like a right winger...

... bitching about anti-Iraq war folks, claiming that pointing out the obvious failure is wrong.

Hey, we dont' WANT her to lose but THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN LEADERSHIP FAILS. And it bloody well is what you can expect in the midterms whether you like it or not.

[WilliamPitt]

69. "bitching about anti-Iraq war folks"

First-ballot nominee to the DU Gibberish Hall Of Fame.

[sendero]

122. Since you are too thick..

... to get the analogy, I'll explain it to you.

When folks complained about the inevitable failure and consequences of the Iraq war, we were called "treasonous" and other epithets by the losers who actually thought the war was a good idea.

Now, those of us who are TELLING YOU that this health care "reform" is going to cost the party are being called traitors to the party.

No, the traitors are those who would try to piss down our leg (pass a bill of, by and for big insurance and pharma) and tell us it is raining (reform).

So I say again - this is what happens when leaders FUCK UP. Which is pretty much all Obama has done so far about anything of consequence.

Come back after the midterms and tell me I'm wrong.

[WillyT]

72. I Don't Know Who You've Been Reading, But I'm Not Smiling At ANY Of This...

I don't find any of this fun or funny.

:shrug:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

75. Go Patriots!

I'm sorry. What were you saying again?

[HughMoran]

78. Kick = ass

:P

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

85. I'm several hundred miles away...

I figure it's safe to taunt Will from this distance.

[HughMoran]

87. ...and me

That was a horrible loss last week - grrr.

[WilliamPitt]

88. Sleep with one eye open.

;)

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

113. Hey, I'm a Packers fan....

It's not like I had a lovely weekend myself...

[Bobbie Jo]

76. K&R

:kick:

[graywarrior]

86. Thank you, Will.

I am god damn sick and tired of reading that crap. We've got enough to deal with right now than read childish bullshit written by fucking idiots. YES, I said FUCKING IDIOTS!

[Generic Other]

97. Seeing anyone but a Democrat occupy Kennedy's seat is tragic

That's the 100% truth. I don't blame you for feeling mad at anyone who thinks otherwise.

I have just become so used to being angry, I don't even know who to direct that anger toward anymore.

Good luck on Tuesday.

[Marr]

99. Suggestion to 'shut-up' noted.

Just FYI-- Senators have a big impact on national policy, so this is not an issue that should be restricted to Massachusetts residents.

[Fire1]

101. HEAR! HEAR!! n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

103. So-called "progressives" are acting like fucking idiots

Again.

[bowens43]

112. but they are not as big of idiots

as the Obama and centrist apologists...admit it, we got punked.

[theFrankFactor]

179. Big Time!

I don't support it but there are a lot of new participants in politics because of Barack and I don't think it hyperbolic to assume that a lot of those people are fucking pissed at the impotence of our new President and the continued failure of Congressional Democrats to be Liberals and not Republicans with D.

There could be heavy losses for Dems. All of the propaganda in the media paints Barack as too liberal and that no one wants government "run" health care and THAT'S why poll numbers are down. They're down because the Democrats have failed. Barack is a wandering back office panderer not a strong Liberal leader.

It's a matter of strategy to keep so-called "Democrats" in as many positions as possible but HOLY FUCK look at the retarded performance of the Democratic majorities we ALREADY HAVE!

THE PARTY IS SHIT. I'm a fucking DEMOCRAT and I voted for this Trojan Horse but what Democrats need is to feel the heat. How to apply that heat is not clear.

[omega minimo]

104. It's Teddy's seat. I wonder if people are commenting on the irony of that.

[freddie mertz]

107. I hail from MA and desperately want Coakley to win. That said....

I also believe that the Dems are making some major political mistakes at the moment, mistakes that could be having an impact on this race and could continue to have an impact in 2010.

That puts me somewhere in the middle of the circular firing squad, I guess.

[Jennicut]

110. My fellow New Englander, I feel your pain. Nothing good will come to Mass with a Rethug win.

But Mass, like CT, dabbles ever so often in Rethug rule, thinking that somehow they have changed this time. They never change. I hope Coakley pulls it out. I have a great love of Mass and sometimes feel like Litchfield County has more in common with it then the lower half of CT.

[branders seine]

115. The centrist triangulation strategy does not work.

Whatever state we live in, what do you want us to do about it?

I hope the Democrat wins, but I'm not surprised she's behind. The world--the real world, the one with real people who have lost real jobs and real life's savings or worse--is PISSED OFF. They'd rather vote for the guy who is pissed off than with the woman who jets off to DC to have lunches with Pharma and health insurance execs.

Put the blame where it goes, amigo, squarely on the DLC, centrist, corporate fucks who have hijacked the Democratic Party.

[enough already 2]

116. Are you prepared to apply the same standard to yourself?

That's what I thought.

[johan helge]

117. The people cheering for Brown

are crazy. The only thing that can move the US leftwards, are Democratic victories, and lots of them.

[theFrankFactor]

180. I Have to Ask...

We currently have solid majorities but we also have "Blue Dogs". Blue Dogs assure a Democratic failure when ever it's needed in Congress. We are rife with shills and punks. Do you think if we FILLED both houses with Democrats we would be getting a health care bill that was focused on the people instead of Corporations?

[johan helge]

274. The more Democrats in Congress

the less power to Repubs and Blue Dogs. The alternative to more Democrats in Congress, is more Republicans in Congress. There is something wrong when one has to point out obvious things like this.

[theFrankFactor]

280. There is something wrong when Cong. majority Dems SUCK ASS

My point, which might be too subtle for some is; the Democratic party's representation is Congress is a miserable failure. If you put your expectations in the shitter, they're not so bad. If you happen to have any self respect as a Liberal you want to puke.

60 votes... or 600 fucking votes by the likes of these turds = SHIT!

I kinda hoped the power shift would mean a shift in power... resulting in a change we could believe in. This Liberal thinks we need to do some serious work fighting corporate influence in our government AND THAT INCLUDES THIS PATHETIC DEMOCRAT CONGRESS.

Signing off.

[johan helge]

283. Don't forget

how difficult it is. To get something really good done, there has to be 60 progressive senators. I don't think that has ever happened, or will ever happen. The Senate now, 60 Dems incl. some Blue Dogs, is probably as good as it will ever get.

This should also be obvious!

[Happyhippychick]

119. K&R because in my mind, you're Brad Pitt's twin brother. Oh, and I agree with you.

:hi:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

120. Brad Pitt in the 90s or Brad Pitt currently?

Because I'll tell you, he isn't rocking the hobo look.

[Happyhippychick]

159. Couldn't agree more. He is looking terrible lately.

[rox63]

121. I salute you Will

From one proud Masshole to another. :patriot:

[sulphurdunn]

123. MASSACHUSETTS

is in play because the Democrats have sold out their base to triangulating Clintonistas, Blue Dogs and DLCers. If Kennedy's senate seat goes to a Republican, it will be because the people of Massachusetts voted that way. I doubt the Republicans could ever rig an election victory there. Personally, I hope the Dem. wins, but the message for the national party should be crystal clear: Party loyalty is conditional and national.

[leeroysphitz]

124. Can't make an omlett without breaking a few eggs.

We told you this was going to happen. You shouldn't act so surprised.

[LoZoccolo]

168. 150+ recs and you look stupid. n/t

[defendandprotect]

185. I rec'd it though I disagree with it . . . those of us who protect free speech don't use the

"unrecommend" to censor speech -- unlike many of the "UN's" here --

[pundaint]

186. I rec'd it not because I agree with it, but so people would see why I disagreed.

I rec posts needing discussion whether or not I agree with the post. I unrec posts that are meaningless or about golfers, but I repeat myself.

[AngryAmish]

125. We have fucked up our own state wuite well, thankyouverymuch

Sen. Burris anyone?

[valerief]

126. I'm from MA, too, and even though I would have preferred Capuano,

the thought of Brown winning is too depressing. Of course, I don't trust voter turnout vs. the evilness of Diebold.

[yourout]

127. The best outcome would be a close victory by Coalkey and the Dem leadership putting 2 and 2....

as to why it was close.

The Dem leadership needs to figure out that when you shit on your base it's not going to stick around for the second bowl movement.

[Fearless]

140. +1

[goclark]

273. As a Democrat I believe the Best Victory would be a landslide

for my fellow Democrat!

[CatWoman]

130. K&R

[Peacetrain]

131. You know, I would feel the same way if it was Iowa.. so K&R.. great rant

[rateyes]

132. Well, fuck me! Excuse those of us from other states who know that

the election results in Massacusetts will affect the whole country. And, god dammit! That's it! My vote will not be taken for granted again. If Coakley loses this race it will be her's and the centrist's own damned fault.

[Peacetrain]

134. You live in another state, and

"My vote will not be taken for granted again."

Say what??

[rateyes]

136. Well, I feel the MA progressives' pain. And, I have a daughter

who does live in MA who is as demoralized with the shit that is going on in our party. Want her vote?

[ChiciB1]

135. It's Disgusting That Ted Kennedy's Seat May Go Down, I DON'T Know What

the real feel is up there. However, I will tell you that I held my nose and voted for Bill Nelson down here in Florida because his opponent was Katherine Harris! Otherwise I would NOT have felt compelled to! And that was BEFORE Rahm Emanuel stuck his finger in the eyes of "the base" and said not to worry about them!!

To blame others here because of their angst is a little off the mark. I DO feel that many who don't WANT to vote for Coakley will do so simply because the seat was Teddy's! Having said that I do feel that the WH has let too many people run the show and have done great harm to the party!

The Democratic Party I once knew looks NOTHING like the one I fell in love with! If this one goes down, they should look very closely and SERIOUSLY at what their strategy is going to be! They have alienated far too many loyal people of "the base" and will pay a high price for ignoring many! Many of my friends even in this RED state have become "very offended" by what they have been seeing from Obama and the Democratic Congress Critters!! I won't say I wouldn't vote for her if I was up there, but I have heard it said from some down here! They're pretty upset by what they have been seeing and a few have already left the party! But there are many DLC'ers here and they will stick IMO, but some hard working Dems have had enough and just say I didn't leave the party, it left me! Who said that one a long time ago?? Ronnie Ray-Guns, and look what HE DID!!

If THIS situation can happen in such a blue state as MA, just think what it could mean in states like mine, or other ones that tend to be Repuke!!

I say... BEWARE RAHM, you must tread lightly or perhaps get out of the way COMPLETELY!!

JMHO!!

[cry baby]

137. I cannot believe these people are still here disrupting, wanting the dems to go down.

I will always remember them.

[Dystopian]

138. Thank you, Will. KandR.

peace~

[Fearless]

139. Agreed!

[David Zephyr]

141. I'm not a religious guy, but we'd all best cross our fingers we don't lose this Senate seat.

I'm glad Obama and Clinton went in.

We don't need a rightwinger for six years representing Massachusetts.

William, you are our most verbose and, I think, the best with language here, but I gotta tell ya, I like it when you talk like this, too: "Go fuck up your own goddam state, and stop cheerleading for the fucking up of mine."

:thumbsup:

[paulflorez]

146. The Commenting War

It's not just DU and MA, national articles on anything about the Democrats are being inundated with comments by people ripping them down, often the same names commenting repeatedly. It's as if there is a small force of people focusing on getting as many negative comments into the comments section of any article they can find. I have no idea how these people find the time to do this, maybe they're all unemployed? I do this it's effective though. Anyone who reads an online news article, and that it becoming a majority of people, are likely to take a glimpse in the comment section. People reading the article may take the comments section to contain as much truth. It's like a commenting war that the progressives are losing.

[KrazyinKS]

150. They think its so great having a repug, I will send Brownback

Ha- they will change their minds then. I have been looking at his face and Tiahrt (congressman) puke a gut. I have to look at their names on the ballot every election day. I always vote against them and it never matters. They will talk about stem cell research and gay marriage and never any REAL ISSUES. Live here for a few days and they WILL change their minds.

[Pat Riot]

213. hello

I see you're a new person. Welcome.

[Goldstein1984]

149. If the MA Democrats wanted to keep Ted Kennedy's seat

maybe they should have run a candidate more like Ted Kennedy.

I'm not up to speed on either Coakley or Brown, but some very quick research on Coakley indicates she is well to the Right of where Ted Kennedy was. Maybe the problem is lack of contrast.

As far as non-MA people butting out of MA business? Sorry, this is national business. But I've spent half my life in Alaska, and over that 26 years I've come to view "Outsiders" butting into Alaska business as just the way things work. Our friends in New Hampshire hate what they call "Massholes" coming across the border, buying cheap property, and butting into local politics during long weekends away from the big city. We are all interconnected--there is no business that isn't all of our business. Few of us would hesitate to "butt into" local church-state separation cases (e.g. Creationism; school prayer) all over the nation.

[leftstreet]

166. +1

[laughingliberal]

193. +1 nt

[Demoiselle]

152. I'm with you, Will. (End transmission.)

[backscatter712]

153. Makes me wonder what side they're on...

The mods need to start issuing more pizzas for the haters...

[Umbral]

155. I haven't seen that of which you speak, but even if true...

it's irrelevant. As you so forcefully put it, they can't vote in your state and likely have no influence there either. The only people (potentially) fucking up your state, are its citizens - take it out on them.

So how's this?

If Democrats can't get elected in Massachusetts, they must really be fucking up.

[Odin2005]

156. K&R

[varelse]

160. You can thank them for at least one campaign donation to Coakley

I would never have known Kennedy's seat was in jeopardy if not for the number of panicked threads on it here. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be a member of Actblue if I hadn't joined DU...

[robinlynne]

161. right on.

[placton]

171. sorry Will

but you can think as you wish. I am not glad we are gonna lose this race, I just don't give a shit anymore. I am indifferent. I tried to send a message in other ways, and spent longer than you have been alive working for Dems - and now we get this shit. Ho hum.

[Fading Captain]

175. One way to keep parties honest is too withhold support

It's not even a conscious decision.
The Democratic Party is to blame for the lack of enthusiasm.
Not the people, for lacking enthusiasm.

If you want to put the party before the people, you are fucking up your own state.

If the Dems don't wise up, it will be worse in November.

[apocalypsehow]

181. Kick & Rec. n/t.

[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arthritisR_US]

199. and the status quo is working perfectly so lets maintain that and reward the biggest thieves in

history, sure makes sense. :sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

183. Had you actually addressed the issue of corporatist-private control over health care ...

your comments of concern would have been more seriously considered --

However, to attack and dismiss the "disappointments, shock, utter disebelief, feelings of betrayal"

and all the other posts lamenting what Obama and the Dems have been doing since the election

is an effort to avoid the underlying issues -- not address them.


This is once more an effort to blame the messenger. Rather . . .

Address three years of Democratic rule and NO end to war -- only re-funding of wars and

new surges!!

Address this corporate/fascist privatization of health care in America vs a true universal

health care system -- single payer/MEDICARE FOR ALL!!

Address what this will lead to in further privatization of Social Security and Medicare!


No one here is happy that Obama and Dems have taken the corportist road -- LEAST OF ALL

Americans who are desperate for true, valid health care reform as other nations have it.

LEAST OF ALL the many reporting here their illnesses and their need for urgent help --

and the many more outside of DU -- 45,000 A YEAR DYING FOR LACK OF HEALTH CARE!!

And LEAST OF ALL those of us with children whose futures depend on a descent and honest

system of health care.

If America doesn't know how to do it, then let our legislators ask for help from any other

nation which has it --

If our elected officials don't know a way to do this without the hated insurance companies

being involved and without the pharma and "for profit" health industry -- then let them ask for help.

But, let's stop pretending that we are "reinventing the wheel" -- we are not!!

Our elected officials know EXACTLY what is required and what they should be doing .....

taking single payer/MEDICARE FOR ALL "off the table" first thing makes clear they understand

very well.

Private meetings at the White House between Obama and pharmaceutical companies where "deals"

were made is simply another avenue for taking "negotiation" off the table.


My daughter lives in MA -- certainly I'm concerned for both my children re health care ...

We ALL have a stake in how representatives in other states are voting --

that's why corporations give money across state lines --

and we all understand how we are impacted by votes against us.


Keep clear in your mind that what is "HATED" is purposeful failure --

We HATE the wars and their continuance by Democrats . . .

Pelosi the day after the '06 election acknowledged/confirmed on video that "Dems were elected

to end the wars" -!!!

We HATE this corporate/fascist health care reform made WITH those at the table while the public

option -- single payer -- MEDICARE FOR ALL are "off the table."

Corporations should have NO place at the table at any time -- ONLY the people and their needs

and interests should be at the table!

[arthritisR_US]

203. I really appreciated your post and I sure hopes he reads it. n/t

[Chulanowa]

202. WillPitt, you've been on DU even longer than I have...

But at least I caught on early to the fact that most DU'ers think they will get more of what they want if there are fewer Democratic politicians in office.

"Yeah! If the republicans win, that'll tell the Dems to swing more progressive like we want!"

:eyes:

I've resigned myself to the fact that most posters around here are, like the majority of everyone on the internet, incredibly stupid people. Not a day goes by that I do not mourn the fact that most humans live where maneating predators do not.

[HopeOverFear]

205. +1

[firedupdem]

209. K&R!! n/t

[bridgit]

214. Let's go beat the shit out of Rhode Island

[OneBlueSky]

218. "It'll help kill the health care bill if Brown wins!" . . .

not a bad goal . . . though I object to achieving it in this particular manner . . .

[Name removed]

221. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

223. out of the loop on this one but I agree with you William

[Name removed]

224. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[graywarrior]

237. As far as I'm concerned you are not a democrat and should not be posting here

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[graywarrior]

263. A democrat does not turn his or her back on the party in a snit

They stand tall and work with the cards handed to them. Punishing people for the sake of teaching them a lesson never accomplishes anything. It only make the newly indoctrinated republican look like a fool. If you can be swayed that easily to vote against everything a democrat stands for: the people, then you never were a democrat.

This is my opinion. I don't run when the going gets tough. I find other ways to hammer dems for change.

[JAbuchan08]

239. If you vote for Brown, you're not voting against the bill

you're voting for a Republican. You might rationalize it as voting against the health care bill, but you're going to get a lot of other shit with that vote.

Opposing Coakley on one issue - the health-care bill - is not a good enough reason to vote for a Republican. Hell write your own name in - Coakley still won't get your vote, but at least you won't be voting for a Republican asshole, or maybe you will be.

[pundaint]

264. I'll vote my priorities, you may vote yours, that's why we vote

Voting for, contributing to, and making calls for Democratic candidates have not resulted in a bill that wasn't a continuation of the immoral and fiscally stupid health care payment approach. In fact the bill will make things worse, in the short run, and much worse in the long run. One candidate opposes it, the other favors it. This is a sixth of our economy, and will easily grow to a fifth in just a few years.

In the next two years, there is nothing left to act on with anywhere near the impact of this bill. I'll take my chances on the rest to get the biggest thing right, and the biggest thing is to defeat this bad bill.

Do you admire the blind party loyalty that re-elected Bush, or was willing to put Palin a heartbeat away? Why would one put party loyalty over the best interests of the American People? I believe the Healthcare bill is a Huge mistake, and I vote for my interests first as an American citizen, and while I have never seen my best interest be served by a Republican before, I have never seen such a large majority let the minority and a bunch of lobbyists write such an important piece of legislation before, and I must do what I can to defeat it.

[JAbuchan08]

277. My point is that voting for Brown is cutting off your nose to spite your face

certainly you do not owe Democrats your votes, but would you really vote for a Republican to defeat them on a single issue? That strikes me as missing the forest for the treas.

[abelenkpe]

253. The solution is not to vote republican

Your health care worries are just one policy issue. Health care reform is not finished, it's final form yet unknown. But you think giving the Right more weight is going to result in reform that helps the people? It won't. Instead it guarantees that anything the democrats could do to improve the situation is that much harder to achieve. It's spiteful and ultimately damaging to so many. Please reconsider your vote.

[pundaint]

225. How can bullshit be deleted, while God Damn can be the title of the post?

[Grand Taurean]

226. Dems shoot themselves in the foot time and time over.

I am with you Will, kick Scott's ass to the curb!

[Highway61]

233. Excellent!

Those morons don't realize that they won't just be fucking up your state but ultimately fucking their own in the end.

[Knight Hawk]

235. Your state,my country

It may be "your state" but it is my country.The race is for a seat in the Unites States Senate,not a Mass. state senate seat.What happens in the US Senate affects all Americans.I do not believe for one moment you have no interest or concerns about who wins other states US Senate races.I am sure you have commented on these in the past.My freedom of expression is not limited to what happens in Florida.

[Krashkopf]

236. THIS is the bill Obama is staking his career on?

First of all, as much as I HATE the HCR bill, and hope that it is killed by House progressives, I CANNOT bring myself to root for a GOP victory in your upcoming special election.

On the other hand, by making the decision to come to MA to campaign for Coakley, President Obama HAS made that election a referendum on him, and on his disaster of a "reform" bill.

President Obama had SO MUCH political capital during his first months in office, that if he had kept his incredible campaign machine - and more importantly hs CAMPAIGN ADVISORS - in place, and used that machine to strongly advocate for REAL health care reform, staking his career on a plan with a ROBUST PUBLIC OPTION, there would have been no "Blue Dog" democrats brave enough to oppose him.

Instead, campaign organization was allowed to atrophy - ending up as little more than an e-mail collecting web site, and he replaced his bold, agressive, progressive campaign staff, with corporatist DLC advisors like Rahm Emanuel.

Obama got the health care bill that he, Rahm, and the Health Insurance industry wanted. Its a piece of crap, and if President Obama goes down in flames next week, because the American people recognize the bill as piece of crap, and a give away to the Health Insurance industry, then he has nobody but himself, and Rahm Emanual, to blame.

[redqueen]

243. K&R

[LynneSin]

244. Where are the mods in this and why aren't these threads LOCKED or DELETED?

Is this what I can expect for future democratic elections.

THIS IS NOT A PRIMARY. If this was a primary and people were cheering on her opponent - I respect that.

THIS IS A GENERAL ELECTION. DU for 8 years set the policy that we are to support the democratic candidate (exception being if there is no democratic candidate - like Bernie Sanders in VT, even the DNC/DSCC supports him).

So what, now that we have a democratic president did we toss that policy out the door?

This is bullshit!

Just as an edit note: I will be actively supporting any democratic candidate that runs against Tom Carper unless his/her record is more horrible than his. I will also be alerting any posts made after the primary that suggests NOT voting for Carper if he happen to win that primary (which he will - Dems in DE are more worried about losing Biden's old seat).

[existentialist]

247. While I agree that Coalkey is (by far) the better candidate

you are wrong on one point.

You and Coalkey may be from Massachusetts, but because she's running for United States Senate the government that would be badly damaged by her defeat is the federal government.


Therefore the government that is at stake is ours not just yours.


Otherwise I couldn't agree more, and I think my point actually makes your other points more, not less important.

[johnnyplankton]

248. Remember Folks, Anger Causes Stupity...

Am I pissed that I'm not getting single payer? Yes.

Am I unhappy about a lot of things about this administration? Yes

Am I stupid enough to think that any good can come from the election of Scott "The Runway Model" Brown?
NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a Teabagger's wet dream. No brains, lots of bluster.

[Imperialism Inc.]

249. I have to admit I have been pretty surprised at the people rooting for Democratic losses.

I have been fairly ambivalent about the HCR bill. I am certainly disappointed about what it is not. It is not a means to get a good public option to compete with private insurers. Based on what it actually is I feel there is some good and some bad. But to use the bill as an excuse to root for the collapse of the Democratic majority we have held for barely a year is completely unreasonable.

[abelenkpe]

252. I'm hoping for a democratic win personally

As disappointing as this past year has been I don't blame democrats. If anything it just shows we need more democrats elected across the board so we can legitimately ignore the right and supposed center and move the country in a direction beneficial to the people.

[tomp]

257. for out-of-state interference, obama is the champ....

....both in mass and ny (my state). but i'm sure you e-mailed the white house to tell them to leave harold ford, jr. and david paterson alone, right?

[tsuki]

258. Actually, you need to pipe down. Since all the attention has been

focused on MA, the Dems seem to have come out of the woodwork. It has been a great motivator for MA Democrats.

Even Obama is going.

[dcsmart]

260. Democrats vote for and campaign for Democrats, end of story.

[scytherius]

261. I'm in CA, my state is the most f'd p of em all

And I am absolutely one that could care less if the Dems in MA lose the seat. Why? Because the status quo in this Nation (since around the time of Nixon) has GOT to change. We can no longer afford to send people to D.C., have them radically change their positions, give in to corporations and special interests, and tell us to shove it. We FINALLY thought Obama and 60 seats would do it. What did we get? The SAME damned thing we have always had.

Of course there are realities and of course you can't change everything. But we expected the Dems and Obama to fight. All they have done is roll over. I don't give a damn if you lose . . . just fight for Christ's sake. They lose by not fighting (and have lost) at least by fighting you have a chance to win and people will follow you into battle. (Think 300 Spartans). But Obama and the Dems are like soneone being attacked by a bully. HIT THE DAMN BULLY BACK. They won't.

So, as for me, I am not actually rooting for a Dem loss. (Quite frankly, I have given up voting for politicians and I have been voting since the 60s). But if a loss shakes it up, even if it causes the system to fail so one day we FINALLY scream, we hav had ENOUGH and stop this madness . . . then it is a very small price to pay.

[Deep13]

266. How's the situtation there?

My redneck relatives who still live there are already celebrating. Is there anything to suggest the Suffolk poll might be an anomaly?

[GCP]

267. DU has always excelled at Schadenfruede

Well said.

[WhiteTara]

268. I heard the same from Nadir

and his ilk. Sickening, isn't it?

[sonias]

270. Rant on brother - I hear you

I really, really hate it when people try to tell you in your own state how things are going to work out. They're not volunteering to help you hold the line, they just want to snipe at you and the national party by taking it out of your hide.

I'm with you Will. Best of luck to you and Martha Coakley.

:grouphug:


Sonia

[cap]

271. hope you guys are calling for Coakley...

there's a lot of folks here but no one has answered my post on "Check in if you've called for Coakley"...
C'mon people!

[NYC_SKP]

275. kick.