say it ain't so -- banning clotheslines?

[astral]

hanging clothes are 'unsightly,' and 'offensive.' Cause property values to drop to see a woman's bra or a man's undies on a clothesline. Many communities have banned them in Utah, Vermont.

DISCUSS! : )

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Not at all uncommon, but I just ignore it where I am.

To hell with them.

[ejpoeta]

2. fuck that!!! i am of the opinion that i can do what i want on MY property!!

if that means having a friggin clothesline so I can dry my clothes, then so be it!! How can people get away with telling someone what they can do on their own property. and how many of the people pushing this bs are the same ones bitching about government telling them what to do!!

[WeDidIt]

3. They can get away with it easily

See, these days when you buy a house in a subdivision, there is a declaration of covenants. When you purchase property there, you sign a contract to abide by the rules of that declaration. Those rules can have a clause banning clotheslines. Every time you set up a clothesline, the home owners association ahs a legal right to fine you. In most states the HOA has first right of lien, so if you refuse to pay those fines for using your clothesline, the interest racks up and when you go to sell your house, you cannot because of the first right of lien held by your HOA.

It's economic. The only way around it is buy a house in a rural area where no HOA exists.

Cities also have passed ordinances banning clotheslines and when your house is in such a city, you can be fined for having a clothesline. The enforccement power the city holds is more than an economic force whenever you try to sell your home, they have the force of the courts.

[ejpoeta]

7. wow!! i am glad i live in the country. i think its bullshit personally.

and clotheslines are energy efficient and better for the environment. but then, i know that there are a lot of folks out there that are more concerned with how things look than with energy efficiency and stuff. up in lockport or buffalo they had put in solar street lights that weren't the prettiest and the residents had a fit. or wind turbines... people fighting them because they are ugly. me personally, i don't so much care how something looks if it will save me money.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Think about your position if taken to an extreme

Not saying that clotheslines are a bad thing, but your basis of argument has some issues

[Libertas1776]

4. To hell with them

if they have a problem with my clothesline. Does my undergarments flapping in the wind offend their sense and sensibilities? It's my property so screw off. But if push came to shove, I would even resort to hanging the line up in my kitchen. My grandmother did that in her little railroad flat in Manhattan when the weather was inclement or cold.

You gotta do what you gotta do to get by and to hell with the "establishment" and their war on clotheslines. :headbang:

[MoJoWorkin]

5. Hanging out clothes saves energy---no dryers running. Jeez!

It is also good exercise, and you get fresh air, while doing it. If you have a place to put a line---go for it. I use my clothesline all the time.


Modernization and convenience aren't always best.

[Toots]

6. What's next, banning chickens and pigs?

:shrug:

[sofa king]

34. Oh, that's already in place.

Look at old films of inner cities at the turn of the last century and you'll see livestock wandering the poop-filled streets. As a joke, I looked in to putting up a chicken coop at my place in downtown Rosslyn, right across from DC. Can't do it. There are two dozen ordinances and regulations which prevent such things.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

8. Clothesline are commonly banned by Homeowner Associations

with all their rules about "conformity" and "community standards". I think towns have no business banning what people choose to do on their private property in single family dwellings.

I'm surprised at Vermont. Not very green or progressive or environmentally friendly of them. Must be all the carpetbaggers moving in.


I used to have a clothesline. My neighbor didn't have one, but would ask to borrow mine for things like comforters, etc. What people don't realize about clotheslines, it that often, your clothes come out STIFF.

[ixion]

9. HA's need to be defanged, IMO

You get some busy-body who doesn't have enough to do making up a bunch of lame rules for everyone to follow, and normally this person has relatively unchecked authority. It's insane, IMO.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

13. If you want to read some really hair raising stories, Google HOA abuse

There are stories about crazy fines, foreclosures, etc for things like having too many rosebushes,etc.

I would NEVER ever ever ever live in an HOA. I wouldn't be too crazy about living in an official historic district either. There was quite a big bru-ha-ha over that recently around here when sopmeone went around trying to get their neighborhood declared a historic district, but half the people in the neighborhood didn't WANT to be confined to living in a virtual museum, not be allowed to put in replacement windows, have to paint their houses certain colors, etc. Many of the people who initially wanted the designation changed their minds when they found out what it really entailed.

[Mist]

16. When I lived in Asheville NC, I became aware of a group called the "bed 'n' breakfast nazis"--a

bunch of people who had bought big old houses just north of downtown and turned them into bed'n'breakfast inns. This bunch got a formerly decayed part of town renovated, and they are to be commended for that, but they also got it declared a historic district, which can be very restrictive. Everyone who has a house of a certain age in that part of town has to have the exterior painted in an "approved historic color." As the houses date from the late 19th C., the color palatte isn't very wide. Some of the grimmest colors I've ever seen: dark grey, deep mustard, very dark avocado/olive. Gruesome. And the "bed'n'breakfast nazis" are constantly agitating about other stuff as well. They've gone from being pioneers in renovating a part of town that needed it, to being a major thorn in everyone's side.

Re: clotheslines--around here (Chapel Hill) there are some neighborhoods referred to as "established," meaning they have no covenants. I live in an older "established" neighborhood, which has few restrictions on property use, and boy am I glad. Those HOA neighborhoods look so same-y, they're kind of creepy.

[WeDidIt]

23. I'm on the board of directors for our HOA

Plus, we've gone to foreclosure procedures over unpaid dues.

In almost every case they come up with the cashier's check when the sheriff shows up to evict.

Of course, we take a more lenient line on community standards and, other than fencing, we are 100% in line with the standards of the city, thus offloading community standard enforcement to the city. We're more concerned with upkeep of common property, including alleys, than with community standards because what the city has in place is fine with one exception. That exception is allowing chain link fences.

[NeedleCast]

32. Wait, you've goine to Foreclose on people who didn't pay HOA fees?

Just goes to show if you give joe homeowner even a hint of power that it'll be taken a mile.

[WeDidIt]

54. The board has no choice

We are willing to work with any homeowner to come up with a reasonable payment paln all the way up to judgement.

Once our attorneys enter that court and obtain judgement, the die is cast and we must have every penny or eviction follows.

There can be no exceptions.

[Trillo]

38. Primarily a double taxation scheme.

I'd guess in the cases when they don't show up with the fees, they really were having financially hard times, it wasn't just a matter of controller egos.

"In almost every case they come up with the cashier's check when the sheriff shows up to evict."

What's with the cashier's checks? Those things cost the check writer extra. Do you take cash? How about debit cards?

One other thing, and this is probably the more important point. You say your main concern is common areas. Isn't that something that the city used to take responsibility for decades ago before the explosion of HOAs? What I see you saying is that you collect extra money for taking care of 'common areas', and the city still collects tax from all city residents in whatever way they do so, presumably property and sales taxes, so by charging a HOA for upkeep of common areas such as alleys, streets, and recreational facilities, the folks living under your association are essentially getting taxed twice, once by the city for upkeep items the city used to take responsibility for but no longer do for your HOA's "privatized common" areas, and once by the HOA who now takes financial responsibility for upkeep of "privatized common" areas, but you still allow the city to take enforcement actions against "community standards".

It sounds like primarily a double taxation scheme.

[CreekDog]

52. Wrong. Common areas are not city/public property period.

it's true that some associations *own* their streets (and thus they are not public and they can keep people out) and some associations are located on public streets (and they cannot keep the public off those streets).

basically, if you can keep the public out and you own it, you pay for it through the HOA (i'm not talking about easements and sidewalks though).

and if you can't keep the public out and you don't own it, then the city sends public works vehicles to fill potholes there, the street cleaner machine, the police will drive by perhaps, etc. your HOA dues should not claim to fund such things --taxes do that.

there are gray areas like easements and sidewalks for example where you maintain access to parts of your property, but that is not the argument we are having here.

[WeDidIt]

56. Our HOA owns alleys and common green spaces

We must maintain the alleys and we must maintain the landscaping of the common green areas.

And our dues are only $35/month.

A person has to get six months behind before we even start the collections process. And all the way up to the point where we obtain judgement, we are very happy to work with a homeowner for a repayment plan.

Some people are just assholes. IT amounts to two or three percent of the homeowners and nearly every penny of our five figure recievables are tied up in this two or three percent.

We do charge interest on late assessments. The rate is 6.5%/annum. We also pass along 100% of the legal fees once it hits six months with no sign from the homeowner they'd like a repayment plan.

[WeDidIt]

55. When we gain judgement, we only accept cashier's checks

And we, as a group of homeowners, own the common properties. This includes alleys which we must maintain. The city offers nothing for the maintenance of our alleys.

Any one homeowner who fails to pay their dues is stealing from every other homeowner in the HOA.

My fiduciary responsibility as a member of the board dictates our actions.

As far as cashier's checks go, this is dicated by the courts. Once we have a judgement entered, there is no altering the requirements.

We don't ever want to take it that far, but in those cases where we have had to, we cannot even blink.

Every homeowner who gets behind has the option to work out a repayment plan. To date, the board has never denied any repayment plan offered by a homeowner who has gotten into this situation. Once we have gone all the way to the court hearing wherein a judgement is entered, that option is gone. The courts dictate this.

[Blue_Tires]

39. i used to cover some while i was a community reporter

and could not believe how petty, power-trippy and despotic they can be...part of me was surprised that no one ever challenged some of the more fascist regulations in court -- a court would overturn some of them almost instantly...

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. Yeah. Our Unitarian church got a little verbal smackdown for having a

poor choice in sign and replacement doors.

Not I get the point of maintaining an historical district. I really do. But sometimes it just gets downright petty.

[logosoco]

12. They aren't as stiff if you use vinegar in the

washer. And there is no vinegar smell once they are dry!
The whole idea of HOA's is scary to me. I hope I never end up in a place that has one. I don't understand how some folks think a clothes line (which are usually in the back yard) is more offensive than these new style houses with the huge garage sticking out in the front (but I guess that is good if you don't like waving to your neighbors when you step out on the front porch).

[supernova]

25. Clotheslines and other things deemed "unsightly"

like cars on cinderblocks you might be working on. (Usually limited to a day or two.)

No indoor furniture on the front porch.

No children's toys left out overnight.

On and on and on.

I don't have a clothesline, but I think HOAs are out of control.

[newfie11]

10. But they can see tv commercials showing women in bras

DUH!

[MineralMan]

11. Funny. I live in a neighborhood in Saint Paul that was built

up in the 1950s. Every house on the block has a serious clothesline in the back yard, made of welded steel pipe set in concrete. Ours has four lines about 20' long. I don't dry clothes too much on it, but I do dry comforters, etc. on it.

I also use it when painting stuff. Hang it up and spray the paint on from all sides. Works great.

I can't imagine that our city would try to ban these. All my neighbors use them.

[The Straight Story]

14. Banning things is great, it is like having a church run the state and keeping us safe from sin

Thank god religious people aren't making the laws, at least now I can accept erosion of rights because it is logical :)

Someday, perhaps sooner or later, we will ban enough things to make us all happy and safe - cause freedom and diversity are big scary things.

[CBGLuthier]

15. Without clothes lines, would Michael Landon have ran so fast?

[Morning Dew]

30. Thanks for the grin!

[Mari333]

17. I hope this is challenged in a huge lawsuit

ecologically correct, environmentally sound clotheslines. and some anal retentive idiots have a problem with it.'
fuck it. sue.
I have a clothesline and if someone tried to tell me to take it down I would kick their ass with a good lawyer.

[Trillo]

31. Lots of folks can't afford a lawyer.

Their only choice in that case is to fight it themselves. Not the greatest of ideas, but the other main option is to get rid of the clothesline.

[WI_DEM]

18. What? Vermont has banned clothes lines? there is nothing better than sleeping in sheets

that have been dried hanging on a clothes line in the fresh air rather than a drier.

[smirkymonkey]

47. That's the best!

We had a dryer, but my mother loved the smell of freshly dried sheets and other linens. As a kid, I couldn't wait to hop in bed - It was like sleeping in a cloud!

[Biker13]

57. Heaven!

I'm Biker13's "Old Lady", and 90% of our laundry is dried on a line, weather permitting! I love to hang our pillows outside on a fine summer day, along with our comforters!

Of course, we're in the country, so no one gives a sh*t!

[dembotoz]

19. dryer crapped out this week-my options are?????????

[LynneSin]

20. You know the Amish won't hang their undergarments out on clothesline

And personally I wish everyone else would just put their damn undies in the dryer or hang them somewhere inside.

As for everything else - have a field day. I need to put a clothesline out.

[Toasterlad]

29. Why Do You Hate American Underwear?

[slackmaster]

22. They're banned in my mom's neighborhood, along with people under 55

That's a common restriction in neighborhoods with HOAs.

She keeps one up anyway, just placed so none of her neighbors can see it easily.

[pipi_k]

24. I wouldn't dream of inflicting my gigantic underpants on someone else's eyes

Seriously, though, I had a clothesline in my own yard (very rural) and even though it's energy efficient and I love the smell of air-dried laundry, I never did get over feeling that they reminded me of some very uncomfortable times in my life.

For me, certain things represent poverty. Clotheslines. Bare overhead lightbulbs. Dripping faucets. Institution-green wall paint.

All I have to do is visualize any one of these and my stomach churns and I want to stop the thoughts.

strange, I know, but there it is.

:shrug:

[tilsammans]

26. I don’t have a dryer, so the clothesline does the trick for me!

My unmentionables dry indoors on a drying rack, so they are not flapping in the breeze for all the world to see. In the colder months, I dry clothes on a line in the basement.

I know some of my neighbors view the clothesline thing as hillbilly behavior (tough sh*t!). And it’s a town code violation if the clothesline is visible from the street. But so far, they haven’t ratted me out to the code enforcement Nazi.

I’ve read that 8% of a home’s energy usage is from the clothes dryer, so I am both frugal and green!

[tabbycat31]

27. I have a broken dryer

I use a clothesline and drying rack, and it's fine for me. I would never live in a HOA community. Fortunately around here they're pretty much restricted to 55+

[Kansas Wyatt]

28. Is the Appliance Industry behind this ban?

They've gone to far this time.
:sarcasm:

[joeybee12]

33. These rules are stupid...using clotheslines is green....

...I'll go for the environment over "unsightliness" any day.

[LeftHander]

35. Homeowner association tried to form in my neighboorhood...

I said..."Not in my backyard.". I formed a opposition committee and drafted a list of rules for the neighborhood to adopt...one of them was no Homeowners Association could be formed. We are drafting our by-laws now and electing officers...

:|

[gmoney]

36. Clotheslines suggest (to some) that the person can't afford a clothes dryer

I think to a lot of upper middle class Americans, using a clothesline indicates poverty (like the tenement photo below), not an appreciation of sunshine and fresh air and "green" thinking. HOAs main purpose is to keep home values as high as possible, so they ban anything that seems "lowbrow" or might suggest anything less than prosperity.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

42. And the same people will travel to Europe and find it "charming"

I bet they also buy the "Clean Linen" Glade scent so that they can breathe in chemicals to artifically recreate the odor their HOA has determined to be too outre for the neighborhood.

[Cleita]

48. On your picture, those tenements were filled with working class people, who

lived hand to mouth because of low wages. Doing laundry was necessary to keep the bread winner of the family in a job. So they weren't the bottom rung of poverty but they couldn't have a washer, let alone a dryer because most of those apartments only had cold water and electricity was expensive so it was used sparingly. Yet, they raised families who got more education than they, who usually were immigrants, had ever dreamed of. Those kids grew up to buy their own homes with washers and dryers because their parents weren't turned into criminals because of appliances they couldn't afford. I knew kids in college who lived in places like that because their parents were frugal and they were able to get better things when they grew up because of it. However, no one would have ever thought that hanging clothes on a line was somehow sleazy and criminal.

[gmoney]

50. I agree

It's just my interpretation of the attitude of most HOA types... their mothers probably hung clothes from a line growing up, but they were brainwashed into thinking the appliance was the only way to go, as the "old fashioned" way just meant that the family wasn't wealthy enough to have the latest modern appliance.

Not only must you keep up with the Joneses, but the Joneses must keep up with YOU.

[blues90]

37. That's insane .

Beside I don't ever recall bras and under wear hanging on a clothes line. Everything else yes but so what. Everyone in the 50's and 60's did it and before. Nosy people and their rule books. Hell some people are more of an eye sore.

It's one thing to let the grass grow tall or let your house become a dump.

I lived in some condo sort of horror in FL right off alligator alley in 1980 and shared rent just to keep costs down and was interviewed to get in. I let them look at my van and they said as long as I parked in in the last row near the tree line it was fine. The van was not beat up just a van I needed for work no ladder racks , nothing or signs on it.

But every damn day I would come out and find a note on it then lots of notes with glue on all the windows telling me they did not like it. I stayed in the van one night and saw who did it and I played his game then it ended.

[caraher]

41. Those bans are an obscenity

I think something like 15% of domestic electricity consumption goes to running dryers. Banning alternatives is a crime given the crises we face.

[alsame]

43. A friend lives in a community that banned clotheslines, but it was

supposedly a safety issue after a child accidentally hung himself on low hanging ropes.

However, they are allowed to have those huge outdoor racks that look like big umbrellas - my friend uses it and says it works just as well as a line.

[quiller4]

44. Clotheslines violated the homeowners assoc. rules in a development

where my first husband and I lived in the early 1970s. That was in Whatcom County just north of Bellingham, WA. At that time such rules were the norm, not the exception.

[Cleita]

46. My personal opinion is that homeowners assoc. should be banned as undemocratic.

People should be able to do what they want to on their own property within the boundaries of common sense.

[Cleita]

45. Yes, the well-off picking on the poor again by criminalizing activities

that they have to do to survive. If you don't have a washer and dryer and have to wash your clothes out by hand and hang them up to dry, now you are a petty criminal and breaking the law. They don't want you to wash your car in the driveway either or repair it for that matter.

[and-justice-for-all]

49. Hanging your cloths to dry sames energy...

banning it is stupid.

[Little Star]

53. agree

[Missy Vixen]

51. If you support the "right to dry", the Vermont Country Store is on the forefront

We shop at the Vermont Country Store. It's more expensive, but they put their money where their mouths (and values) are.

The owner of the Vermont Country Store has been waging a campaign against those who seek to ban clotheslines.

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/browse/Home/Orton-POV/Right-To-Dry/D/80000/P/1:300:3040:300230

Disclaimer: I do not work for them. I am just one more happy customer.