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Kate Harding, Salon: Reminder: Roman Polanski raped a child

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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 10:39 AM
Original message
Kate Harding, Salon: Reminder: Roman Polanski raped a child


Reminder: Roman Polanski raped a child

Kate Harding

Roman Polanski raped a child. Let's just start right there, because that's the detail that tends to get neglected when we start discussing whether it was fair for the bail-jumping director to be arrested at age 76, after 32 years in "exile" (which in this case means owning multiple homes in Europe, continuing to work as a director, marrying and fathering two children, even winning an Oscar, but never -- poor baby -- being able to return to the U.S.). Let's keep in mind that Roman Polanski gave a 13-year-old girl a Quaalude and champagne, then raped her, before we start discussing whether the victim looked older than her 13 years, or that she now says she'd rather not see him prosecuted because she can't stand the media attention. Before we discuss how awesome his movies are or what the now-deceased judge did wrong at his trial, let's take a moment to recall that according to the victim's grand jury testimony, Roman Polanski instructed her to get into a jacuzzi naked, refused to take her home when she begged to go, began kissing her even though she said no and asked him to stop; performed cunnilingus on her as she said no and asked him to stop; put his penis in her vagina as she said no and asked him to stop; asked if he could penetrate her anally, to which she replied, "No," then went ahead and did it anyway, until he had an orgasm.

Can we do that? Can we take a moment to think about all that, and about the fact that Polanski pled guilty to unlawful sex with a minor, before we start talking about what a victim he is? Because that would be great, and not nearly enough people seem to be doing it.

The French press, for instance (at least according to the British press) is describing Polanski "as the victim of a money-grabbing American mother and a publicity-hungry Californian judge." Joan Z. Shore at the Huffington Post, who once met Polanski and "was utterly charmed by his sobriety and intelligence," also seems to believe that a child with an unpleasant stage mother could not possibly have been raped: "The 13-year old model 'seduced' by Polanski had been thrust onto him by her mother, who wanted her in the movies." Oh, well, then! If her mom put her into that situation, that makes it much better! Shore continues: "The girl was just a few weeks short of her 14th birthday, which was the age of consent in California. (It's probably 13 by now!) Polanski was demonized by the press, convicted, and managed to flee, fearing a heavy sentence."

Wow, OK, let's break that down. First, as blogger Jeff Fecke says, "Fun fact: the age of consent in 1977 in California was 16. It's now 18. But of course, the age of consent isn't like horseshoes or global thermonuclear war; close doesn't count. Even if the age of consent had been 14, the girl wasn't 14." Also, even if the girl had been old enough to consent, she testified that she did not consent. There's that. Though of course everyone makes a bigger deal of her age than her testimony that she did not consent, because if she'd been 18 and kept saying no while he kissed her, licked her, screwed her and sodomized her, this would almost certainly be a whole different story -- most likely one about her past sexual experiences and drug and alcohol use, about her desire to be famous, about what she was wearing, about how easy it would be for Roman Polanski to get consensual sex, so hey, why would he need to rape anyone? It would quite possibly be a story about a wealthy and famous director who pled not guilty to sexual assault, was acquitted on "she wanted it" grounds, and continued to live and work happily in the U.S. Which is to say that 30 years on, it would not be a story at all. So it's much safer to focus on the victim's age removing any legal question of consent than to get tied up in that thorny "he said, she said" stuff about her begging Polanski to stop and being terrified of him.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2009/09/28/polanski_arrest/
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. I was concerned that we'd run out of editorials reminding us about Polanski.
And thank God we got all the graphic details. Are we almost done being lectured about our lack of outrage?

I'm hoping that as soon as Sylvester Stallone gets divorced or Angelina adopts another baby this stuff will be relegated to the interior pages of the supermarket tabloids.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's an evolving story. You don't want to read about it, use 'hide thread'. nt
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I use the "hide" feature often. However, I reserve the right to ridicule those who won't let it die.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. why should we allow rape of a 13 yr old die, when people are ignoring the rape
how fuckin stupid is that for all of us.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Who's being "fuckin stupid"? He's been arrested and awaiting extradition.
The French have bailed on him, and ability to avoid coming back to the US seems to be nearly zero. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1217378/French-government-drops-support-director-Roman-Polanski-faces-extradition-U-S.html

So, we need endless threads reminding us of every detail?

Get a grip!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. but there are not endless threads reminding, but bring new details. nt
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. How about OJ
Maybe there is another civil case he is involved in that is important as healthcare. We could put that up as well.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. +1
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. silly. this is three days in. france ignored the rape two days ago
hollywood DEMANDED his release yesterday. yesterday france shifts. last night one hollywood spoke out against. today a couple more

three days in

not the end of world for you guys.

hide it
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I'll do better
With 40,000 people dying because of lack of healthcare every year and probably ten times that many who end up in ER's because of underinsurance I think I can do better than hide this thread.

I can unrec it.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. the wonderful feel of multitasking. no subject has been lost to me. rape of female is an
important issue to me.

it doesnt have to be an important issue to you
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Yep its an important issue to me too
I can keep up with this along with the other issues, no problem. :hi:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. wink.
i have my own theories on the people so bothered by the finger waggin on this article.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. You disgust me
You just attempted to insinuate something utterly dishonorable about me. I have volunteered repeatedly with shelters and have donated to causes to protect vulnerable people from this kind of evil.

Have your own self-justifying theories all day long with regards to your obsession with this case. Smear people all day long with whatever filth you want. It will make no difference.


The fact of the matter is that this is a crime that does not have a political dimension. My reason for deciding to unrec this was two-fold.

1) I usually unrec celebrity news even if it is odious and foul.

2) Your smarmy tone was more than enough and now that you have moved onto baseless and foul accusations against people interested in doing working towards accomplishing something that we can actually do something about, I can see that unrecommending this post (one of dozens of similar posts) was probably the right thing to do.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. you
were not a thought in my head. no conisderation to your posts. i answered the post and that is about all the participation i have had with you.

i gave you my reasoning for continuing with the threads. as far as i know, this is our first interaction.


and when i say i have my own thoughts on the issue, they may not be as profound or necessarily disgusting as you are assuming.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Careful SB!
I think she might have a crush on you. ;-)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. scary.
never experienced.... well, i have in real life, but both were he's
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Maybe this will clear things up for you. The issue is not blowing up because it's celebrity news.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Yeah, you're right. Time to get some pitchforks and torches.


(He's been arrested. You know that, right?)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. i have yet to suggest pitchforks. really no punishment at all. awareness what we are doing
as a society is good enough for me.

are you going to continue with hyperbole and made up arguments?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Really? Like this finger-waving lecture from Salon brought new details to light?
I'll give her credit for writing up the lurid aspects of the sexual acts. Steamy hot -- like some pulp fiction crap that dehumanized the whole issue.

Sorry, but this is just the same old shit on a different day.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. no. it is another speaking out against it. nt
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Speaking out against rape? Christ. As if there are a lot of fans of rape at DU.
No, it's yet another log on the fire.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. BREAKING NEWS!!!! Roman Polanski farts! Details at 11 PM
For anyone who needs to know all the new twists and turns in the case...


:evilgrin:

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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. People care. Get used to it.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. People obsess needlessly. They look for targets of outrage where none exist.
They will be ridiculed for being simple minded. Get used to it.
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yeah, and there's a certain sense of smug self-satisfaction...
...that comes with knowing that one's major contribution to the discussion is lifting one's leg like a dog in front of a fire hydrant.

Because that way, everyone can see how witty and articulate you are. Job well done, sir. Welcome to my ignore list.

:patriot:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Big deal. Like being put on your ignore list somehow impacts me.
Simpleton.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. The story is evolving. It's not over, for better or worse. Woody Allen's for Polanski! France isn't.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. If you think child rape is the same as adoption or divorce...You're one sorry
S.O.B.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. I didn't say that, did I?
Trying breathing into a paper sack. Your desire to find someone to shit on outweighs your ability to understand my point.

My point is simple: DU is all about the latest distraction. Jeremiah Wright. Missing white chicks. Glenn Beck.

Something happens, and suddenly we are deluged for days with posts on the same subject, tilling the same ground.

Is Polanski in deep shit? Oh, hell yes! Does he deserve to go to jail? Absolutely! Do I really care so much about it that I'm willing to see the better part of a week at DU dedicated to this issue and say nothing? Not a chance.

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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. It certainly looked like an analogy to me..

You try breathing into a paper sack..or maybe a diaper. Given that you're FAR more angry than I, you may find the "shit" you're now imagining.

You're "point" may have been simple, but your post was not. Sorry.

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. You've demonstrated my point completely ... and in spades.
Edited on Thu Oct-01-09 11:35 AM by Buzz Clik
Even when I explained it to you, the outrage and insults continue.

I'm angrier than you? You're the one who called me a "sorry son of a bitch".
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. "outrage"?.."insults"?
Edited on Thu Oct-01-09 12:09 PM by whathehell
You are the one who told me to "breathe in a paper bag" accusing me of wanting to "shit on somebody".

As to "sorry son of a bitch"?.....Cut me some slack, Buzz...I did abbreviate!

Seriously, I accept that I misinterpreted the initial post. I thought you were one of the "apologists". You've let me know that you are not, so I don't think we have a quarrel.

Peace.;-)
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Hmmm, bringing a child rapist to justice is now "tabloid fodder?"
What a callous and disgusting remark.

Don't know why so many demean and mock those who want to see a man who drugged and raped a child serve some time for his admitted crime. Baffles the mind and breaks the heart, really.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Nope.
Try reading it again.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. My heart is fucking breaking for you.
Truly.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #32
45. That's so fucking sweet of you. Really.
And for you to think I'd actually care. That's even sweeter.

Naive, but sweet.


(As late as you responded there is no excuse for not reading the thread. Do try to keep up and make some attempt to not run on pure emotion. Otherwise, you come across as an irrational ass, and we can't have that, can we?)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. LOL... it's cute how you think I care what you think.
:)

Thanks for kicking it! :kick:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Read the responses next time. You're capable. Not doing so is foolish.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. kick ass. this is what i am talking about. speak, speak loud and speak out. nt
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
40. +1
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
31. OMG, what a RW witch hunter! How dare she bring this up again?
Edited on Thu Oct-01-09 11:50 AM by redqueen
:sarcasm:



I'm absolutely stunned by some of the vile shit I'm reading here and elsewhere about his crime.

Stunned.
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Alenne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. It is just shocking. nt
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
42. Great article.
I am so glad to the support for the rapist is fading away.

As for those 110 hollywood petition signers, shame!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
43. I know the French think we were absurd over Monica L, but
are they so "liberated" they think sex with 13 year olds is OK? Boggles the mind. I agree with them generally when they call us prudish. But children?
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