Teeth - The Worst of US Healthcare.

[Avalux]

Many health insurance plans DO NOT cover dental care - I know I have to buy this separately and it's expensive. Not only is coverage expensive but deductible and out-of-pocket costs are also expensive. As a result, there are vast numbers of children and adults who never go to the dentist so when they have a dental crisis, drastic measures are taken, like pulling one's own teeth with a wrench. This sort of thing should not happen in this country.

I feel very strongly all children should have free dental care from the day they're born. Twice a year cleanings should be without charge (for everyone for life); fillings and any type of care to prevent loss of teeth and infection should be affordable. Remember the little boy who died from an abscess because he didn't receive the care he needed?

Healthy teeth are so very important and I don't think enough attention has been paid to this area of the health insurance debate. If anything needs to be socialized, it's dental care.

[_dynamicdems]

1. Agree. K&R

:kick:

[OnyxCollie]

8. A Ronnie James Dio fan! Love it.

How have I missed you for so long?

"Catch the Rainbow" is one of my favorite songs.

[_dynamicdems]

34. That is a beautiful song! One of my favorite too.

"Blackmore's Rainbow" is one of my favorite albums.

I'm glad I'm not the only Dio fan here.

:hi:

edit: by the way, that is one gorgeous dog!

[OnyxCollie]

81. Thank you! nt

[ContinentalOp]

91. My favorite DIO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oajLY_O11nw

[_dynamicdems]

134. That song is catchy.

I love the cartoon too. Seems I remember seeing this years ago, somewhere, but I didn't realize it was RJD singing. Funny thing is, now that I know, I see a similarity in the frog's moves to Dio's. That same sort of strut. It must be coincidence.

:7

[americanmutt]

98. the days....

"Man on a silver mountain!"

[_dynamicdems]

136. A classic!

You know, I am not knocking the Heaven & Hell/Sabbath stuff, but the Rainbow and Dio material was really good. So many great songs, it's hard to single out one. The entire "Blackmore's Rainbow" album is pretty damn incredible. I'm also a huge fan of Dio the Band and loved "Magica" with Craig Goldy's playing. As far as I'm concerned, Ronnie James Dio and Craig Goldy are pretty near as good a team as Blackmore and Dio. (Although I'm probably in the minority there.)

[Mojorabbit]

75. One of my favorite songs too! nt

[Sheltiemama]

76. Is that a Belgian sheepdog?

I know it's one of those herding breeds I see only at Westminster. Gorgeous breed.

[OnyxCollie]

82. Yes, he's a Belgian sheepdog.

Or an "Onyx Collie", if I'm feeling a bit mischievous.

His name is Dante.

[blueamy66]

17. My friend/co-worker's wife will be done w/ American dental school

next year. I cannot wait for some good care at reasonable rates!!

I have put off repairing a crown for over 6 months now because, even with insurance, my part is $500.

[SoDesuKa]

100. Dental School Dentures

My dental school dentures are "correct" in the sense that they represent current thinking, which emphasizes retention. However, I can't keep them in my mouth very long; they make me gag. So I've stopped wearing them.

I tried negotiating with the student dentist to remove some of the denture which is too far back in my mouth. She refused, saying that she was being graded on retention, not patient comfort. I've learned to cut my food because I can't chew it. And I can't eat in a government cafeteria because they won't let me bring a knife into the building.

I wish I could afford a real dentist.

[blueamy66]

125. I don't think that I was clear enough.

She was a dentist in India. She has to complete 2 years of schooling here in the US before she can practice here.

[glowing]

2. I agree. Along with vision care. A child who cannot see the chalk board or the

book he's trying to read, will NOT do well in school. I know my own hubby (who's 32)needed glasses for a very long time and had none. When we started dating, my first gift to him was to take him to the eye Dr and get him glasses.

[Avalux]

3. Agreed. Throw eye care in there too.

I focused on dental because of the cost...2K for a root canal my adult daughter couldn't afford. What if I handn't been able to pay it for her?

[americanmutt]

99. DENTAL NIGHTMARES......

I have been on DU for many yesrs and this is some of the subjects that make me want to comment. I read and then think. My health has been good, but my teeth, SUCK!! And not in a good way. I have had over 67 cavities filled, 8 root canals, small surgical procedure done on the front of my mouth, and 11 extractions, and i was informed within the last year that all my upper teeth have to go. That, (without insurance, as i have never had any) is a small fee of thirty eight hundred, at the lowest.
The total cost of my teeth procedures alone, would have bought me a house. I do not make this op to bitch, it is just an example.
PEACE

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

103. The Veterans Administration Dental Clinic will do extractions for me for free

But that is all. I have used a dental school in San Francisco, I have gone to Mexico, and now there is a retired dentist that has taken on some of the poor in Guerneville and I have been able to get fillings done at a reasonable rate, not have to drive 2 and a half hours to SF and go through a three hour appointment while the student has the instructor come check everything. I can only chew on one side now. I have been thinking of going to Clearlake where I hear there is a guy who does dentures for dentists, and if you go direct to him you get a reasonable (more affordable) rate.

[avaistheone1]

102. Comprehensive single payer health insurance in this country would cover dental and eye care as

well as medical care.

[HamdenRice]

4. A doctor told me something about dental care & insurance yesterday. Anyone know if it's true?

She said that when the health insurance industry was taking off and beginning to monopolize the financing of health care, dental was supposed to be included.

The dentists looked at it and said collectively, thanks, but no thanks. It was according to her, the dentists who kept dental out of the insurance racket. That's why they are generally now richer than doctors. It's a cash and carry business, basically.

[Avalux]

11. It makes sense...

if you can't pay, you don't get it. Even with dental insurance.

[Cassandra]

25. That cash and carry business only goes so far.

Dentists in NYC have fought to be able to include in their practices giving botox injections because their dental practices are no longer earning them enough money because fewer people can afford to pay $2-5K for work on one tooth.

[PCIntern]

5. As a dentist

I agree in toto...

We've come a long way in 60 years, but much more needs to be done, especially in rural communities.

the anti-fluoridationists, generally RWers although some on the Left are adherents, have made inroads lately and many are thus suffering. As a 30+ year practitioner, let me just say that the amount of dental disease among young-to-middle-age folks is WAY WAY down during the time period inclusive of my career. As is the morbidity and mortality associated with dental disease, and MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT: PERIODONTAL DISEASE SECONDARY TO DENTAL PATHOOLOGY/TOOTH LOSS IS A DIRECT CAUSE OF AN INCREASE IN MORBIDITY AND MORTALITY.

Pardon me for screaming, but it needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

On edit: K&R

[Avalux]

10. Thank you for your perspective -

I am a child of flouridated water and flouride vitamins. Too much? I don't know but I'm 44, healthy and have never needed a filling. I also had my teeth 'checked' when I was in grade school. Somewhere along the way, all of that has changed.

I posted upthread that my adult daughter sans dental insurance had an abscessed tooth needing a root canal - cost 2K. I don't know what she would have done if I hadn't paid for it. If she hadn't had it taken care of her overall health would have been affected.

Please - keep screaming.

[boobooday]

16. I should have made my post a reply to yours

It is ridiculous how dental and medical care are treated as two separate things in this country, as if poor dental health isn't a huge factor in many other health problems.

[NNN0LHI]

22. Too many people don't take gum disease seriously

It took loosing a tooth to convince me. My uncle was my dentist and told me to get it taken care of for ten years and I didn't listen to him. Wish I would have.

I have felt a lot healthier since I got it under control.

Don

[Yellow Horse]

30. As A Farmer

I vehemently advocate that people who want fluoride ADD it to their OWN water, take it in pill form, or add to your family's drink or food if that is your choice.

Fluoride in water is NOT good for some animal species. There have been cases of animals dying after drinking fluoridated water.

Humans get fluoride in most toothpastes and many mouthwashes today. How much fluoride is really needed for dental health? Do we really know? And what about many people drinking bottled water these days? They aren't drinking the public water that much anyway.

Keep fluoride OUT of public water. I have to use the local public water supply for my farm purposes, and i do NOT want to be forced to pump fluoride into my livestock and crops.

[PCIntern]

37. Anecdotal BS...

there is a FAR grater quantity of endemic Fluoride in water in Texas and Colorado and I DON'T SEE TOO MANY STEER OR MOUNTAIN GOATS DYING OF FLUORIDE POISONING....

And there is no substitute for endemic fluoride in the water as a public health measure..peeriod.. I'm speaking from competence.

[NNN0LHI]

42. You don't realize how nice it is having posters like yourself to knock down the BS

Before people read something that is false and start believing it.

Thank you.

Don

[PCIntern]

53. You're quite welcome

sorry about the spelling in the last post...I had to run and had no time to run the spelchek(sic)...

I'm sick and tired of these 'experts' contradicting what we KNOW to be true from decades of clinical experience. Pisses me off no end...

[Yellow Horse]

59. "Anecdotal" my ass. I know people who had animals die, and I don't want YOUR SHIT in MY WATER.

Public water is a public resource that goes far beyond children drinking (or not) it for dental health, and other than making it biologically safe to drink it should not be tampered with. Meaning no drugs, vitamins, minerals, tranquilizers, nutrients, etc. should be added. In a so-called free society, use of these should be an individual's choice, and these may (and do) affect other uses such as animal husbandry.

If you as an "expert" have concluded that fluoride is good, simply educate your patients and the public to ADD it to their own water and food or have them take supplements.

As I said, what about all those people today who drink and cook with bottled water only because they and their precious children are too good to drink the stuff coming out of the tap? An educate-and-supplement program would reach them and help make sure they get what they need, if indeed this is a necessary supplement.

FYI, I have good teeth, perhaps because I personally took fluoride pills as a child thanks to my responsible parents and the dentist who educated them. I still DO use a fluoride toothpaste and mouth rinse. But I don't give fluoride to my animals. And I often worry that there should, IMO, be a safe human (and animal) dosage range scientifically determined as well as research about overdosing on this stuff. Many vitamins, minerals, and other substances are toxic when consumed in excess. Some animals normally drink 10-20 times more water than a human.

As for steers and mountain goats, perhaps other environmental factors combine to make what is "normal" in Texas and Colorado water become a problem when added in other areas. I don't know. But as I said I don't want my animals to be forced to consume any unnatural additive to our water when humans can easily supplement what they need.

[alarimer]

61. Ignorant bullshit

Believe all the woo-woo nonsense you like, but it is completely wrong.

[Yellow Horse]

64. I call bullshit on you. Eat a goddam ton of fluoride pills if you want to...

...but keep the hell away from MY animals and out of MY water.

Jagoffs like some of you people make it easy to see how the right-wing gets riled up about The Nanny State.

Cripes.

[KathieG]

63. So, toxicology tests & necropsies were done to confirm that fluoride killed these animals? Uh huh

[Yellow Horse]

65. 250 bucks per animal AND it has to be done within 12 hours of death. YOU wanna pay for it??

If not, shut the hell up, give your kid fluoride pills (they work fine), and leave the public water supply (and people's animals) alone.

All where are all you flouride-guzzlers gonna stand when someone starts wanting to add drugs to our public water?

Hey, if people in your community seem a bit too uptight these days for your liking, why not add a little xanax or prozac? Or maybe some ritalin for the kiddies?

Geesh.

[PCIntern]

67. That was the most ridiculous thing you've said

except for everything else you have ever said,,,

Fluoride does not concentrate in the water supply...

if you knew what you were talking about you'd have a 3 digit IQ...

[Sebastian Doyle]

72. I would never argue against brushing your teeth with flouride toothpaste.

If it benefits the teeth, use it for that, fine. But that's no reason to swallow the shit in your water.

[PCIntern]

77. I hate to tell you but

you're just plain wrong. Sorry.

PC D.M.D.

[Yellow Horse]

104. And if you had one ounce of respect for other people's concerns, you might be professional.

First words out of your keyboard to me was to call my post "BS" and things went down from there. If you really wanted to convince me, you would point me to some scientific evidence that fluoridated water is harmless to livestock and pets. But I doubt that such a study has ever been done. Instead you choose to throw your own "expertise" around as a DENTIST to whom I guess all must genuflect.

Well, guess what "Doctor" you and your flying monkeys on here have just intensified my position against fluoridation of our local water. I am going to call up some of my farmer friends, especially the ones that lost the animals, and send another round of "don't even THINK about adding this SHIT to our water" letters to our local water authority and elected officials.

The real dentist that convinced my parents to give me the fluoride pills was a quiet humble man who did a good job fixing teeth (the couple of fillings I do have, he gave me and they have lasted decades), didn't gouge his victims $2000 for one root canal while waving a CareCredit application in a patient's face who was sitting in his chair in pain. And he didn't get in anyone's face and say "I'm an expert, listen to ME!" He respected other people's opinions and their concerns. If he were still alive I know he would be understanding of my concern for the animals that make my livelihood.

And for your information, my IQ is well over 150, which is higher than the majority of dentists.

Peace out to you and to your flying monkeys. I hope fluoride is good for monkey teeth.

[Loki]

111. Do you live in Texas?

[PCIntern]

112. 150? Just about your post-count...

just sayin'

[Avalux]

113. Flouride effects in animals are the same as in humans.

Excessive amounts (from highly flouridated water due to evaporation) can cause teeth mottling and bone problems but this can be managed. There are worse things to worry about like salinity, sulphur, etc.

Please provide clinical data that animal deaths have been caused by flouride. Screaming "I know people who've had animals die" doesn't cut it.

[KathieG]

69. So...your answer is no? I guess we will just take your word for it then.

:silly::crazy::silly::crazy:

[Orrex]

87. Thank you for posting that, Yellow Horse

We can no longer sit back and allow
Communist infiltration
Communist indoctrination
Communist subversion

and

the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify

all of our precious bodily fluids.

[progressoid]

101. purity of essence

[Gormy Cuss]

6. I went to a public dental clinic as a child -- we were fortunate to have one available.

There's no way we would have had regular dental care otherwise.

Even having free annual cleanings and checkups would be a vast improvement for those who can't afford it, and that shouldn't cost much.

[goclark]

18. I just got two implants and they will cost $9000

It is not covered in my Dental Plan. My dental plan covers $1,500 a year and at the cost of dental work now.it is not enough.

I am blessed that I have managed to pay for it but if that is happening for me, with Dental Insurance,what can people without Insurance do? :cry:

The Oral Surgeon was marvelous. He donated three days of his time to provide free dental work at the Los Angeles Forum. Thousands of people were there.

My Mother's Care Giver and her three children stood in line from 2 am until 7 am and they all got treated. :smile: None of them had Insurance and Nellie was so grateful ~ me too.

The way I looked at it was that I payed for their dental work and many more people. That's OK with me.

[snappyturtle]

7. Agreed. Dentistry is out of reach. A few years back I had eight THOUSAND

dollars of work done on my teeth.....age, menopause, child bearing and a poor diet during the years following a divorce all contributed. The odd thing is that I didn't have all that much done. Was completed over four or five months. I think it was outrageous even though I'm happy with the outcome. Of course, we had no dental insurance. The first estimate was over ten thousand! No offense to any dentist here but every business has employees to pay, insurance to buy, rent or a mortgage to pay. Something just seems out of whack....and I have the sinking feeling that the insurance companies play a part. One of the girls at the desk at my dentist told me it was too bad I didn't have insurance...the work would have been cheaper. IF that is true, so much for the insured covering the uninsured.

[madmax]

88. I cleaned my dentist's 2 offices every weekend for 2 years

to pay the difference between the 1500. my insurance paid. And I'm grateful that he allowed me to pay my bill that way.

[1776Forever]

9. I know this is odd to say BUT how about a sugar loaded addiction bill for soda like cigarettes?

And the money to be used for dental care? I know sugar and sucrose may not take lives but it does help to make ones health deteriorate.

Just a thought - :shrug:

[Avalux]

12. I don't like the idea of a punitive "bad food' taxes.

As a collective, we need to teach our children how to eat properly when they are very young; education is paramount in the population and will require a generational change. I'm all about prevention than trying to fix things when they become a crisis.

[1776Forever]

19. When I was a child - over 50 years ago - soda was like water & was plastered in advertising.

My friends and our family never talked very much at home (I am sure others probably did) about what was good or bad to eat or drink. Soda ads were everywhere and Coca-Cola was the thing to drink. I truly wish that my family would have talked more about nutrition and I am very glad to see the younger generation doing it now!

[PCIntern]

13. It's not just sugar...

it's ANY fermentable carbohydrate AND you also need a 'susceptible surface' and plaque. If any of those three are missing, no cavity...in theory, if you were plaque-free, no amount of sugar ingeston would cause dental caries (cavities)...the sugar lobby would say that if people brushed and flossed, sugar wouldn't be an issue...I know, I know that's impossible, but they have lawyers and lobbyists too, just like the tobacco companies...

Periodontal disease is another matter of course...

[boobooday]

14. My MIL suffered from gum disease for so long

17k to fix her mouth. She didn't have it, and before a relative stepped in to cover it she had suffered a stroke. Untreated dental problems lead to a lot of suffering. It's so bizarre how it is not treated as a "health care" issue in this country.

[Avalux]

21. It is bizarre.

The idea that 'they're only teeth' is dangerous; periodontal disease can lead to serious problems including death.

[Blue Belle]

15. I agree...

I cannot afford dental care, and more and more inurance plans are dropping it or severely limiting what you get for the high premiums you pay. Any healthcare bill should include dental.

[ThomWV]

20. I have dental care but after spending thousand I started pulling my own teeth

I have dental insurance, the Government plan that Congressmen have. The coverage is so poor that after spending several years and thousand of my own dollars trying to save my teeth I finally gave up and as they went bad I started pulling them myself. I did go to the local teaching hospital about 5 years ago to see what really needed to be done at that time. They wanted to pull everything that was left and the bill to me (after insurance had covered some piddling little bit) was still going to be nearly $3,000. So I said fuck it.

By the way, I have kept all of my teeth, in a box. When they've all come out I'm going to drill holes through each of them and put them on a chain which I will then wear around my neck. Its my way of saying fuck you to dentists.

[Avalux]

23. Your story is tragic - should never happen. And you HAVE insurance!

Doesn't it hurt to pull your own teeth?? And if I may ask - how do you eat without teeth? Sorry you've had such a rough go of it. :hug:

[ThomWV]

50. Once again, you'd be surprised. I can't eat apples of course, but most things are OK

I do still have that bridge and several bottom teeth so I've got something to chew against. On the top I just gum it but you'd be surprised how tough your gums get after a couple of years. I do have a problem with sharp or crunch stuff stabbing my gums though, and that can really be painful - and of course once it happens there will be a cut on my gums that has to heal before I can eat "normally" again - but they heal surprisingly fast, a day or two at most.

I don't want to make this sound worse than it is. Since I abandoned Dentists I've had little pain or difficulty. What pain there has been has always been associated with a tooth that had become very mobile (lose) and I've pulled every one of them with just my fingers. I have to tell you the truth, most of them haven't hurt much at all to pull out.

[OnyxCollie]

27. Damn. Didn't that hurt like hell?

What did you do to prevent pain and infection?

[ThomWV]

44. No where near as bad as you might imagine

Now don't get me wrong, I didn't grab the vice grips and yank, for one thing virtually all of my teeth were loose to some extent and when I had to pull one it was one of them that all of a sudden was getting much looser. As for infection, I was just lucky - never had one.

As it stands right now I've got one tooth left up top and a bridge and about 5 left on the bottom. It was removing that last bit of mess that was going to cost me another three grand.

What really got me to do it was the futility of all the dental care I was getting. For over 6 years there was never a 2 month period in which I did not see the dentist (several of them actually). I was having cleaning done once every 3 months (insurance paid for 1 per year), I brushed after every meal and flossed twice a day (morning and evening). Nothing worked.

And the bills - they were constant. What was the killer though was not the bills so much as the notices from the Insurance folks (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) notifying me that the costs were above 'normal and customary' and that I had to pay this, and I had to pay that, and they paid some piddling little bit. Then to add insult to injury once every few months they would send me a letter demanding that I certify that I didn't have some other policy and was double dipping. They would suspend all payments until I responded - they did this constantly.

Let me remind you, this was the insurance that all Congressmen, Senators, and even the President himself has and it still sucked.

[geckosfeet]

24. A great place to start a single payer plan - teeth cleanings for life.

My feeling is single payer (HR676) or something similar is simply to huge a venture for a health care system used to running on the profit motive. Start small, implement twice a year cleanings. Then full coverage for children under 18. Build an administrative infrastructure, refine it then roll it out for complete dental coverage. Then integrate health care as well. This may take five or ten or even twenty years but we have to start.

I do not like the idea of building a health care system that depends the existing for profit health insurance industry. You either provide health care, or you run a business.

[Ilsa]

26. Exactly, and most insurance that does cover dental

has high copays and limits. My brother is diabetic, and because of that, he has more dental problems related to microcirculation. He always reaches his insurance benefit cap, and he works for an insurance company.

[Wednesdays]

28. Fillings should be free, too, as should all necessary care

Meaning, root canals, etc. I can't imagine anyone abusing dental care coverage...except perhaps Bill Murray in Little Shop of Horrors. ;)

If someone needs a crown, that should be covered...a gold crown, anyway. The pricier porcelain crowns can be out-of-pocket for the cost difference.

[lovelyrita]

29. I have gum disease. This requires me to see the dentist every

three months. My dental insurance only covers the two cleanings, so after six months, I have to pay out of pocket for the last two cleanings. This ends up costing me around $120 twice a year. Why do I pay for insurance that has a yearly max payout of $1000? It is so easy to reach that point if you have any dental work done.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. Dental care costs have basically ruined my financial life

and made it impossible for my career life to continue in any form. I've paid thousands and still need to pay more thousands. My partner, he needs who knows how much as well. If I had another 30K I'd be dandy. Maybe 15. We tried to fix me. It costs too much.

The first consult left me reeling. The dentist said 'it will cost tens of thousands of dollars' so I asked him if he meant more like 3 or 9 he said 'three or nine what?' 3 or 9 tens of thousands of dollars, as I might be able to afford 2 or 3 tens of thousands, but not 8 or 9 tens of thousands.
He was so offended that I had asked. He carried on about not being able to estimate closer than a 60 thousand dollar gap. It might cost 20, it might cost 75, if you can not afford the top, you can not afford anything, and should just have them all pulled. That is what he said. I now utterly hate dentists. Sorry to DU dentists, but that man did it. With his Conde Naste magazines and his photos of his yacht on the wall. The profession needs some standards. Dental offices are too often run like used car lots. Or extortion rings.
Dentists are not at all like doctors, they are more like salesmen. Pushing stuff. Stuff of unknown price, that you must have. Agree to pay whatever, or fuck off.
I have not found one of them who is different. My next round is planned for Mexico, after I sell what was to be my grave, our family plot, to pay for it. What a profession, what a country! Thanks, dentists of America, thanks so much!

edited because I can not type this morning!

[glinda]

45. Am in the same situation. We dropped our Delta Dental also because it was

stupid to pay 1200/yr. to only cover 1000/yr. and then get stuck seeing awful practitioners to boot. What a bunch of crap. I need 30 thou in surgery and work that is not cosmetic but it mandatory. The last place I was at to see what I could do, they were pushing drugs to clients there while the drug rep had just bought expensive asian dinners for the whole staff. blech*

[jmowreader]

46. I'm just astounded at that statement

He couldn't get it closer than "thirty thousand on either side of x"?

[JNelson6563]

117. Great post.

I note our resident apologist has decided to ignore it. That alone speaks volumes.

It's all about the money baby. Enough to make one hurl.

Julie

[Oeditpus Rex]

135. $70,000 was what I was told

I was prepared to hear $20,000-$25,000 and to spend that much.

I didn't go back. What was the point?

I've learned not to open my mouth when I smile.

[ensho]

32. totally agree

nt

[havocmom]

33. One wonders how much expensive treatment for heart disease could be avoided with timely dental care

It is insane that insurers will pay for bypass after bypass (along with all the tests and other treatments for heart disease) when good dental coverage could save a lot of that AND the wear and tear on patients/families that procedures to fix hearts cause.

Insane that basic preventative care is not covered even with proof that much heart disease starts in our mouths.

[laughingliberal]

40. The Lack of Preventive Measures in Insurance Industry is Appalling

Your example of how they pay for bypasses that could have been prevented by early dental intervention is just one of the examples. Here's another: no help at all for smoking cessation which could prevent outrageous payments to treat lung diseases later. The reason? They are betting you change jobs (thereby changing insurers) or lose your insurance before they face the costly results of denying coverage for prevention.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

96. Funny you should mention heart disease

It's linked with problem teeth/gums big time.

[havocmom]

126. Yep. And we treat it at great cost instead of preventing much of it with cheaper dental care.

Insane, isn't it.

[Mr Generic Other]

35. and having unhealthy teeth is associated with increased heart disease.

so it is clearly a medical health issue.
it is a sad reality in america that citizens have so little clout. a country of the people, by the people, and for the people?

[Union Yes]

36. Gum disease continually poisons the blood.

[Avalux]

38. Endocarditis -

many posts here about heart disease from periodontal disease/infection. Bacteria from the mouth can infect the heart - hasn't been paid attention to enough.

[ensho]

39. and I'm sitting here with a toothache that no dentist will ever see

because it would cost too much

[HopeOverFear]

47. same here

[Avalux]

49. I'm sorry. May I ask you a question?

What will you do if the pain becomes unbearable and if your mouth is full of infection? So many people are in your situation and suffer terribly without any recourse. :cry:

[ensho]

124. if it was that bad (heavy infection) I'd have to go and put it on my

one and only credit card which has a low maximum and which I keep a next to no balance due.

I've always hated owing money; owing money worries me silly.

[originalpckelly]

73. I know the pain, I've never been to a dentist in my life.

Hopefully nothing happens to me because of it.

[krabigirl]

41. Dentists are crooks. Can't stand them.

[CountAllVotes]

43. agree

the worst one I ever ran into owned portions of various race horses. That should tell you something! What a crook!

They can say anything and they'll hope to frighten you to death or frighten you into thinking you need thousands of $$$ worth of something or the other. :grr:

[PCIntern]

54. No question that there are quite a few...

but not all of us...not by a longshot.


I'm so busy I don't need to fabricate pathology or treat people unnecessarily or gouge them.

[omega minimo]

48. I had to do early withdrawal from my IRA this year to pay for dental work I'd put off because

I had to do early withdrawal from my IRA to pay for it. Had Medical but no eye or dental coverage.

Let's end the industry racket now. M'kay?

This racket is a way to keep American workers in serfitude, IF they still have jobs.

[dugaresa]

51. and the appearance of your teeth can affect your income

it is part of your presentation to the world. Your smile.

And yet I can count may folks I have met who need dentures or partials, folks whose teeth need to be fixed desparately but can't because they can not afford the money it takes.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lynne]

55. Agree that not enough attention has been paid to dental as adult dental isn't covered -

- in the current bill unless you purchase the "premium-plus" option. That's the highest option and many won't be able to afford it. Same with adult vision care. Both of those should be included under the basic plan, even for adults, IMO.

[Mari333]

56. I had dentures shoved into my mouth when I was 12, in 1963

in a way, Im glad I have them now. dont have to pay for dental anything. funny how what I used to hate turns out to save me money.

[dixiegrrrrl]

58. I know several people who feel better having dentures

because of the constant expensive issues with on-going dental problems.
they are happier, never have to worry about pain, huge expenses, etc.

so I have heard.

[subterranean]

57. This is why many Americans go to Mexico for their dental care.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32404952/ns/health-health_care/

[Itchinjim]

60. When I was growing up.....

My dentist lived just up the street from us in our modest middle class neighborhood. My current dentist lives in an enormous Mc Mansion in a gated community. If he is typical, this might have something to do with the high cost of dentistry.

[SeattleGirl]

62. I agree.

There are many health problems that can come about as the result of having bad teeth.

[drmeow]

66. Oral health is a medical need

More and more research is showing that people who get their teeth cleaned regularly are healthier overall. One theory is that gum disease (which regular cleanings help control), as a chronic infection, causes chronic elevations of pro-inflammatory hormones which circulate in your blood. This affects the heart, especially, but can also affect other organs. Cavities can cause people to change their diet which can interfere with them getting adequate nutrition. Dental care should be part of routine medical care just like well-woman, well-man, and well-child exams are. Same with vision care.

[PCIntern]

68. Absitively and posolutely...

no question...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

70. Dentists should stop LYING ABOUT MERCURY..

Mercury is BAD STUFF in any form.

Mercury is neurotoxic. It vaporizes. The EPA says it's hazardous and special protocols must be used when it's put in and removed from your mouth. However, once it's in your mouth, it all of a sudden magically becomes SAFE. Suuuurrre......

:wtf:


Mercury is bad shit and dentists REFUSE to tell the truth about it.

[PCIntern]

71. Junk Scientists should stop lying about Hg...

It's a way to make money...see, you REPLACE all the amalgam fillings! So dentists are either liars or crooks...take your pick...i'm neither.

[earth mom]

80. You're exactly right. Also, Mercury is in vaccines given to infants & the CDC says it's all good.

Meanwhile, there is an Autism EPIDEMIC in this country.

Nobody cares about Mercury because the medical and dental industries are making billions off of it! :puke:

[Orrex]

94. You are incorrect: mercury is not present in vaccines given to infants.

Your subject line is 100% wrong, and the text of your post is nonsensical.


To date, no causative link has been demonstrated between mercury and autism.

None.


Whatsoever.


At all.

[Orrex]

90. You're right--my father drove a Mercury when I was a kid

And now I can't remember where I left my keys. Coincidence?!?

[Sheltiemama]

74. I have dental insurance through work, but ...

... very few really good dentists in this area take it anymore. I just left a very good dentist for one closer to home. I think I'm going to like him, but since hardly anyone takes it, I figured I might as well have convenience. They'll file my insurance, and it'll still pay most of it.

My mother is looking at three crowns from a specialist. She's been taking Actonel for years, and one of the side effects apparently is that it can make your teeth deteriorate under your crowns.

[lovuian]

78. Dental should be on there YES

Yep

[earth mom]

79. I can't believe the whining dentists I've seen here on DU.

:puke:

[PCIntern]

106. Please be specific...

I'm awaiting your reply with great anticipation...

[crazy_vanilla]

83. both dental and medical should be socialized

It's not just the teeth that give us trouble, it's all of it.

[Avalux]

84. I agree completely.

Unfortunately, with the grip corporations have on this country, it isn't going to happen. Part of me wanted the banks to fail - wanted all of it to fail - so we could get out from under their grip and be forced to rework everthing. Even if it caused a lot of pain.

[MrMickeysMom]

85. I don't even want to THINK about how soon our house would be paid off, if not for dental "care"

Jeebus, my smile alone is 8 thousand, alone.

It's incredible, because lots of this work was done when we had good plans with better dental.

Dental care and nutritional counseling are two big concerns. The latter is something you an at least do yourself by checking out the right books at the library!

[Liquorice]

86. Medicare does not even cover dental. I was shocked when my mom

became eligible, and I found out she would have NO dental coverage whatsoever. What a sham.

[glinda]

92. That is because if any major work has to be done, it costs thousands. More profit.

Suck the money right out of the retired and people who need major surgeries.

[boomerbust]

95. Right - No dental or vision care

Medicare is lacking if you're living on a fixed income.

[Texasgal]

128. Medicare does cover

Vision care. It covers a health exam annually and many vision related surgeries.

They will also cover a pair of spectacles post cataract surgery as well.

Just an FYI.

[boomerbust]

130. Just an FYI

Page 30 of the Medicare and You 2009 Benefits- Eye exams for people with diabetes every 12 months. Disabled and on Medicare but not diabetic you pay 100% out of pocket for exam and spectacles.

[Texasgal]

133. I said post cataract on specs.

and they will cover exams if there is a health reason.. IE: hypertention, retinal issues as well as macular degeneration and ofcourse catracts.

[Hestia]

89. It was decided 100 years ago that the scientific medical community would not cover

teeth, eyes, and feet, hence dentists, podiatrists, and opthmalogists/optrician. The medical community took the rest of the body. It is still that way today.

[Sgent]

131. I've never seen a health plan that didn't cover opthamologists

Optometrists and Optician are often uncovered, but opthamologists (for services other than refraction) are covered in every health plan (including Medicare) I've ever seen.

[waiting for hope]

93. Remember this?

For Want of a Dentist

Pr. George's Boy Dies After Bacteria From Tooth Spread to Brain
By Mary Otto
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 28, 2007

Twelve-year-old Deamonte Driver died of a toothache Sunday.

A routine, $80 tooth extraction might have saved him.

If his mother had been insured.

If his family had not lost its Medicaid.

If Medicaid dentists weren't so hard to find.

If his mother hadn't been focused on getting a dentist for his brother, who had six rotted teeth.

By the time Deamonte's own aching tooth got any attention, the bacteria from the abscess had spread to his brain, doctors said. After two operations and more than six weeks of hospital care, the Prince George's County boy died.

Deamonte's death and the ultimate cost of his care, which could total more than $250,000, underscore an often-overlooked concern in the debate over universal health coverage: dental care.

~Snip~

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that your teeth can kill you.

[Avalux]

97. That's what I referred to in my OP.

So very tragic that happened. :-(

[chknltl]

105. This Vet has bad teeth too

I can't afford dental work and my veterans bennies do not cover dental work either. For awhile I was going to the nearby dental college to get my teeth cleaned but this last visit they informed me that there is nothing they can do. They advised me to go to a nearby University to have my teeth pulled, (all of them) and to have dentures fitted.

FWIW my teeth are not the problem, it's my gums and the bone holding those teeth. Every year my teeth grow looser and looser, one even fell out on it's own last year! Frankly I am scared witless that I may suffer heart problems from what is going on in my mouth. My father died of cancer which attacked his lower jaw and my mother died recently of heart disease. My kids want to take me to Mexico a little later this year, they claim that I can get the work I need done there better and cheaper. I'll be taking them up on their offer, it's not like I have any other options. It'll be nice to be able to talk to folks again without the embarrassment of bad breath...hell I might even go back to dating again....folks in their mid-fifties do that don't they?

[sammytko]

127. I guess i was "lucky" to be diagnosed with TMJ while in the military.

It is part of my disability and I get full dental care through the VA. They have a nice new clinic in San Antonio. i get cleanings twice a year and a new retainer every couple of years.

i was also lucky that my father always insisted we brush all the time. Other than the TMJ, I have good teeth.

[chknltl]

132. TMJ??? Ended up looking it up

From what I read, this is not a disorder we share. My issue has little to do with brushing either-I brushed my teeth pretty religiously from the moment I was first taught. Flossing otoh was something I had to learn much later, once learned it was likely too late.

Even-so I suspect my stronger issue is not one which was preventable by brushing or flossing. My upper and lower jaw does not seem to line up properly. Over the years, I have developed an extensive overbite-to the point that I can no longer touch my top front teeth to my bottom front teeth. My bottom front teeth have molded themselves to fit into the hollow of my upper mouth interior well behind my front teeth-perhaps as much as an inch behind where my front teeth connect to my gum-line.

I am no dentist so I can only guess that this is not a property of my not brushing or flossing properly. This problem developed and grew worse from childhood on. Truth be told, I suspect that any 'repairs' will be a nightmare of facial reconstruction or at best the work of a very creative denture specialist. (Translation : OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE and most likely just as painful!)

[Norrin Radd]

107. I concur.

[TankLV]

108. My partner doesn't have ANY Dental coverage...!!! I have to pay for ALL of it OUT OF POCKET!!!

And what is maddening, is that NO ONE is even talking about this!!!

[Aviation Pro]

109. My wife the General Dentist/Orthodontist agrees

She has seen how horrible the state of dental care is in this country as a result of the lack of preventative care. She is a strong advocate for outreach to teach people how to properly take care of their teeth between twice yearly checkups. Of course that runs smack dab into the greed of such "fast food" dental practices such as Healthy Smiles, Small Smiles, etc. that rely on Medicaid (which provides children with coverage) and base their practices on productivity. She has been at clinics where dentists see 18 patients a day (over 9 hours) with the majority of work done by assistants. Then the scumbag owners bill at the clinician rate (the dentist) for all the work.

[JNelson6563]

110. It doesn't help that many dentists are real bastards.

Might piss on you if you were on fire, for a fee.

Julie

[PCIntern]

114. ...and many patients are pricks...

will commit the crime of 'theft of services' deliberately...false ID's and insurance...other high crimes and misdemeanors including terminal rudeness and obnoxiousness... so what's the point - that people are human???

[JNelson6563]

115. Well it might help if more dentists gave a shit

I guess that's what I was trying to say in my first post. Far too many care about their revenues more than just about anything.

But hey, if you want to point to dental fraud (??? has there been a rash of this lately???) to dance around the fact there are many greedy bastards in the dentist club, that is your right.

Julie

[PCIntern]

116. We do give a shit,,,,,,,,,,

we spend most of our time pissing into the wind, telling people that they need to clean up their acts, to brush, to floss to use fluoride supplememts where necessary, which, if people followed the advice, WOULD BE LESS WORK FOR US AND BETTER HEALTH FOR THE PATIENT.

But noooooo....most p
I call BS on that...

[JNelson6563]

118. Yes, I notice

you "call BS" on anything you disagree with or do not like to hear (judging by your "contributions" to this discussion. Good strategy. I remember when my daughter went through her teenage drama queen years, same tactic, same lack of effectiveness.

You need to deal with the fact that there are people who share your profession that are uber assholes and many out here in the real world who suffer terribly because of it.

Julie--who has dental horror stories that would have you covering your ears and screaming "I CALL BS! I CALL BS!!"

[PCIntern]

121. No, just on lies and grotesque misinformation

which is designed to mislead the public away from its greater good and improvement. If you had any idea of how important fluoridated water is, you'd quit this while you're ahead.

[hack89]

122. My dentist is the one of the most decent people you will ever meet.

his entire staff are simply wonderful. In a competitive environment there is no business advantage in being an asshole - I can simply take my family elsewhere.

[JNelson6563]

123. I too am fortunate

I need much very expensive dental work. My new non asshole dentist is just great though. He understands my financial situation. We addressed the critical thing that was causing much suffering and then did a comprehensive assessment of the needs. He explained what was really crucial and that the rest could wait. The truly gotta-do-it-now stuff was small as dental expenses go and made a huge difference. He is my hero and I will be forever grateful to him.

All those I've had before him though, not so much. How much money can we get out of her seemed to be the goal. Greedy fuckers. I'll probably be spending the rest of my life having this guy clean up their shitty work, a little at a time as I can afford it. Just glad I found this one, he's such a gem and his staff is fabulous. I'm pretty lucky.

Julie

[cindyfaulkner]

119. Mine does but

it only pays 50% so not that great but better than nothing I guess.

[Avalux]

120. So let me ask you a question -

If you needed a root canal that costs 2K and your insurance pays 1K of that, would you be able to pay the other 1K out-of-pocket? I ask because even people who have coverage find it inadequate. It is better than nothing though. :hi:

[Rex]

129. They don't really care about your health, just forced to cover you

so why would they care about your teeth!?