Remove high-fructose corn syrup from our food

[steelmania75]

Obesity is another huge problem in America...

Here's some stats from American Sports Data:

-Between 1962 and the year 2000, the number of obese Americans grew from 13% to an alarming 31% of the population.

-63% of Americans are overweight with a Body Mass Index (BMI) in excess of 25.0.

-Childhood obesity in the United States has more than tripled in the past two decades.

Read more here:

http://www.americansportsdata.com/obesitystats.asp

This is a bad economy, and the food companies are turning our fear into nervous eating.

[Laelth]

1. Hear, hear! k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[ananda]

2. Thank you!

Corn is the bane of our existence these days.

It's everywhere, and much of it is gm.

[MineralMan]

3. How about reading the label and not buying stuff containing it?

Will that do? I'm not real big on unilaterally removing stuff from things.

[madeline_con]

6. Yes, it's someone else's fault I'm fat! n/t

[paulsby]

8. bingo! we have a winner

i am a weight classed nationally ranked strength athlete. i control my bf/muscle ratio based on genetics and behavior (what i CHOOSE to eat). i am perfectly free to choose not to eat HFCS, and generally speaking, i don't. i avoid crap food in general. it's MY choice. labeling is good. advocacy is good. education is good. but if peopel CHOOSE to still buy HFCS laden foods instead of using due diligence to police what goes into their own bodies, it's THEIR fault, not industry's. industry uses HFCS because it's cheap, plentiful, and people LIKE it. if people choose NOT to buy it, and buy other products that contain alternatives (or god forbid stop eating prepared crap and do their own cooking), the industry will adjust or fail that's how it works

[abumbyanyothername]

16. I'm going to disagree with this, and here's why

1) People have to eat. Something.
2) Studies have proven that the food that gets advertised is the food that gets eaten.
3) A good deal of food advertising is targeted at children below the age of 5.
4) We are never going to remove kids from homes just because their parents allow them to watch TV.
5) Food companies operating for profit cannot afford to care about the health of their customers. (Even The Economist questioned the wisdom of for profit food production -- noting that capitalism has led to obesity everywhere it has spread.)
6) Our foods are laced with addictive substances (caffeine, sugar, HFCS, etc.).

I'm not sure that a ban is best, but nationalizing the whole food chain might not be a bad solution.

[MineralMan]

17. I leave people to make such decisions for themselves.

One needn't eat anything one doesn't want to eat. Everything is labeled. Our literacy rate in the USA is quite high.

Eating food you prepare yourself makes it all so simple. You control the ingredients as you please. It's lots cheaper, too. There are also many prepared foods without undesirable ingredients. Once can choose those.

You want to choose for others. No, thank you very much.

[abumbyanyothername]

20. I just want to stop the child abuse.

I am open to discussion.

Personally, I am doing my best to avoid manufactured products where ever possible. For food, I eat 100% fresh fruits and vegetables and nuts and nothing else.

We intervene to say that people can't include heroin or cocaine in their products.

I don't think that food, in the age of mass capitalism, should be left entirely to private forces. It is not a fair fight between intelligent, healthful and self-interested choice by the consumer and manipulative, profit-enhancing marketing by the producers.

[paulsby]

27. that's why their is mandatory labeling

something i heartily support. fwiw, i CHOOSE to eat metric assloads of meat- for performance, for quality of life, and for health. that's my choice. stop trying to limit MY choice. i'm not trying to limit yours. nobody is stopping a healthy alternative to mcdonald's to grab the market and run with it. and if consumers want to eat crap, that's their choice. and god, when i saw the headline about child abuse, i thought for sure you were going to be sarcastic. i mean please... "do it for the children". spare me. fwiw, i have seen some disgusting examples of parents serving their kids complete non-nutritious crap. it's up to education, religious groups, civic groups, parents, grandparents, etc. to teach people how to respect and appreciate good food. but fuck govt stepping in and limiting my choices, or telling businesses what foods they can and can't sell.

[Luminous Animal]

56. You are absolutely right!

And we should still allow lead in our paint & gasoline. After all, someone might choose to use leaded paint or gas.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

131. The use of leaded paint or gas is not a personal choice

depite the fact that the choice is made at a personal level. In other words, the drinking of a Pepsi pale in comparison to the public negative externalities of the actions you mentioned.

[Luminous Animal]

196. Not true. The lead paint industry waged a prolonged PR campaign.

Individuals, hoodwinked, demanded their lead paint to paint their own houses. The Dutch Boy paint company even waged propaganda directed at children. The biggest obstacle against banning lead paint and gasoline was the general populations belief that there was a benefit.

People believe that Pepsi is good. They believe that Pepsi is good because billions of dollars have been expended to tell them so. And billions of dollars have been expended on campaigns based on research that absolutely prove that those billions of dollars are worthwhile. There is not one of us that can be certain of our choices given the massive PR efforts expended to undermine and obfuscate independent thought.

[wolfgangmo]

205. WTF?

"The use of leaded paint or gas is not a personal choice"

WTF are you talking about? You don't buy gas or paint? They just kind of show up on your house or in your car courtesy of the lead fairies?

[Vinnie From Indy]

168. How do you feel about tobacco?

What about smoking weed?

[paulsby]

21. people can still make choices

and it's up to them to make it. it's that fucking simple imo. i also used to be a personal trainer. i saw how people could CHANGE their habits to start eating healthy. it is NOT rocket science, and there are few things we have MORE freedom to control, than that which we stuff down our mouths. despite the proliferation of HFCS laden foods, there are still tons of foods (and way more choice than we had 50 yrs ago) for people to make intelligent choices. last i checked, grocery stores still carry staples like brown rice, eggs, etc. i live near several excellent farmers markets. one local produce/ethnic store offers EXCEPTIONALLY cheap produce. the choices are out there. sorry, but caveat fucking emptor. the LAST thing we need is more laws and regulations. i am with bourdain and such when it comes to food. it's MY choice, not govt's and not yours, what i choose to put in my mouth. and it's the consumers responsibility to be diligent. plenty of companies go out of their way to care about people's health fwiw. that's their business model and it works very well for many of them. others choose to provide comfort food, junk food, etc. that's GREAT. it's a fucking free market. i have immense choice in both prepared and staple foods, such that was NEVER known to my grandparents. the choices are astounding. choice is good. if i want a big mac, and sometimes i do, it's MY choice. if i want to eat braised pork belly (one my favorite dishes to prepare), it's MY choice. if i want to eat vegetables , it's MY choice.

[abumbyanyothername]

32. Hey, obviously someone hit a nerve.

I don't care, really. But if you think the food system is not a big part of the health care problem, well . . . .

There's nothing for us to discuss.

Have a great day.

[paulsby]

33. it IS a huge part of the problem

people's self directed choices, specifically food, alcohol and cigarettes contribute to over 2/3 of ALL CHRONIC SERIOUS HEALTH CONDITION, according to CDC last i checked

the issue isn't "is there a problem with the american diet?"

fuck yea, there is.

the issue is "is increased government power and regulation to limit choice and free enterprise the solution?"

i say hell no.

peoples' CHOICES get them into trouble. we need to help change the mindset, and that can be done through families, churches, civic groups, non-profits, responsible companies, etc. in promoting healthy eating.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. We will end up suing the food industry for the same reason

we have sued the tobacco industry.

It is as researched as Phillip Morris, but I am proof positive you knew that NOT

[paulsby]

42. actually it's not phillip morris any more

it's altria. i know because i own the stock. regardless, i did know that.

and hopefully, the food lawsuits will continue to be unsuccessful. people are responsible for their own behavior

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Given that current research is showing that

our food combos are almost as addictive as cocaine, I am not so sure.

Given that HFCS is that dangerous to the human body... will see.

I know for some of the personal responsibility brigade we should ALWAYS give the corporations a pass and blame people...

I know.

[paulsby]

119. who frigging cares

lots of stuff is habit forming. internet being one of them. it is not a matter of giving corporations a "pass" it is a matter of respecting CONSUMER and CORPORATE choice. that's why i firmly support mandatory labeling, and more detailed labeling than we have now. informed consumers are empowered to make choices. it does NOT mean they will make the right choices. people informed will often make the wrong choices. but it increases their locus of control without diminishing OTHER's choices. but yes, i have yet to see any corporation forcibly stuff ANY food down my mouth. everything i eat (as an adult) is MY choice. i used to work with a guy (i swear to god this is true) who ordered two servings of flan and a coke. for dinner!!! lol. and he WAS a narcotics detective. he would have been better off sniffing cocaine than eating that crap. regardless, it was HIS choice. he KNEW it was bad for him. govt. force is a blunt and oppressive tool. i am all for (for example) govt. strongly regulating and punishing companies that pollute the air, foul the water, etc. in those cases, people don't have CHOICE. otoh, when it comes to food, we are talking about individual choices - whether they be poutine, wheatgrass, pork belly, or asparagus. it's YOUR choice. no matter how many mcdonald's open up (and yes i do eat there occasionally. i like it, it's my choice, and i am damn healthy. it's my choice), they can't FORCE me to eat there. if consumers WANT more healthy food choices, the market will adapt. that's how it works in a free society. heck, 20 years ago, i had to search MUCH harder for fresh produce sources (i grow a lot of my own produce fwiw and can and pickle stuff a lot too.), and lots of stuff was hard to find. heck, i remember when yogurt was considered exotic. there has never been a better time in the history of the US for food (or beer thank god) CHOICE. healthy choices abound. even many fast food restaurants have many tasty healthy choices. wendy's chili is one example. i frequently get a cup while on patrol, especially in the winter. we shoudl revel in our choices, and CHOOSE to make the right ones, and HELP others to make the same. and recognize that if you don't have the liberty to make bad choices about your own self/health, then you simply don't have liberty

[nadinbrzezinski]

200. Read this again, addictive, cocaine

try again...

Personal responsibility is fine, but YOU ARE GIVING THE CORPORATIONS A PASS, THE CORPORATIONS THAT USE THIS RESEARCH TO MAKE SURE THEIR PRODUCT IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE.

Can you read? Can you understand?

Or this this sciency stuff too complex to comprehend since it may actually put the onus on the CORPORATE ENTITIES you keep defending?

[Skittles]

225. ooh - Wendy's chili is indeed good

funny, at work when the food run is Wendy's, that's what I get - and my coworkers, who all order burgers and fries, bug me about how I stay so "skinny"

[Maru Kitteh]

116. Big man eat meat, own tobacco comany stock and have raging hard on for free market and "personal

responsibility."

Throw in repeated irrational amount of hostility toward regulation, hostility toward reform through court action, and a very serious spelling impediment and you know what?

You look and sound like a perfect conservative.

[paulsby]

120. no, i sound like somebody who respects liberty and freedom

i am all for regulation. clean air and water? sure. consumer safety? absolutely. but nannystate food monitoring ? get fucking real. regulation nannies like you fail to realize that every additional regulation is a restraint on consumer and corporate choice, and incursion on liberty, and an increase of govt power to control our lives. i don't want government in my bedroom. i don't want them peeking in my windows. i don't want them reading my emails. and i don't want them wiretapping my phone. i also don't want them in my fucking REFRIGERATOR. and yes, i do have a hard on for a free market, one with a decent minimum wage (we need a higher one imo) and one with a social safety net (universal healthcare and etc.) but one where people and corporations are emboldened to innovate, to make choices, and yes - people who make bad choices live with the consequences.

[Maru Kitteh]

173. Like a parasite, you profit from the death and misery of millions of poor and undereducated people

around the world via your proud ownership of tobacco company stock. This alone gives you mad conservative street cred.

[paulsby]

191. not really

many conservatives detest the tobacco industry. and let;'s not forget where al gore's family got their wealth, huh?

i;m not aware of obama, or any democratic candidate (and real candidate) coming out for a tobacco ban are you?

but yes, i do own tobacco company stock (not that altria is an exclusively tobacco company, but it gets a substantial portion of its income from it)

i'm a pragmatist, and a dow stock like MO (altria) is part of my portfolio.

[nadinbrzezinski]

201. I know regulation nanny that takes the salmonella off the food chain

since we know we should all be free to eat salmonella.

Nannies that take out of food things like pesticides, since we know we should be able to choose the pesticide in the salad.

Never mind those two were removed due to effects on human health

Your "choice" is a false one SIR.

And if CHFS is bad for you, why pray tell me should it not be removed from the food chain? Or perhaps we should go back to DDT in the food chain? We KNOW it had absolutely no ill effects on human or animal health whatsoever and increased yields... :sarcasm:

[rhett o rick]

157. Jeezes, I hope we aren't judging on spelling. I am terrible. And Maru, you mispelled "company".

just sayin

[The Doctor.]

193. When food details are obfuscated, it's hard to make a sound choice.

[wolfgangmo]

206. Let's say I owned a food company

And I knew that I could make more money if I added trace amounts of mercury and arsenic, both of which in low levels will cause endorphin reactions and lead to a form of addiction but that in the long run will definitely cause health problems; serious ones.

I know this and I decide to spike all of my food with these toxins while at the same time making sure that my company both hides or denies any related health effects by sponsoring lots of research and supressing anything that I don't like and paying to have anything that I like posted on the front page of every media outlet I can afford to.

This is what food companies and this is what HFCS.

Stop blaming the victims. Not everyone has access to non processed foods, especially the poor, sick and elderly. It must be wonderful to be you, so in charge of every part of your life and so full of choices.

[Johonny]

34. I'm going to agree with you

The other people do make a great point. But it misses one very important issue. HFCS is cheap. One of America's odd problems is in general the cheapest food to purchase also happens to be the least healthiest. For those Americans that can afford to eat in a healthier life style I can see the posters points. However as you bring up these foods are targeted to a certain populous and in general are the only real option for many poor Americans. Sadly many of the worst foods today were created in response to creating a more cost effective food market. It worked but the overall decline in food healthiness was a side expense that was not considered.

[abumbyanyothername]

35. HFCS is cheap only because of USGOV

farm subsidies that allow corn to be grown for less than it's normal cost of production, which would be more than what it currently sells for. In other words, our government is complicit in trying to poison us.

[paulsby]

121. our govt has been complicit in all sorts of

ridiculous agricultural policies for years. i'm not going to argue that. like i said, it is NOT difficult to nearly eliminate HCFS from your life. it's quite simple actually. so do it, if it bothers you. i am so accustomed to eating healthy, that i rarely think about it. it comes naturally. but yes, sometimes i decide to eat crap. i had a bowl of frosted flakes the other day. it's sugar laden crap, but hey, i'm recovering from surgery. the oxycontin made me do it!!! damn those evil pharmaceutical companies.

[HillbillyBob]

45. You make a very good point. I am on a fixed income

I do eat as much non processed as I can afford to. I don't always have the energy to make bread , that was why i mentioned it in my reply. I can make wonderful breads. I am also long term HIV/AIDs survivor of heart attack 3 rounds of cancer on and on. I have been on a better diet for years, I did work out until moving to NC where I cannot now afford a gym membership nor find a coach to get me back on track after the heart attack an bypass surgery and a very bad illness from black mold in a wreck of a house we had to rent because it was what we could afford.
Now I am getting around a lot better..just can't seem to get back on the workouts when I was almost religious about it after losing all the weight I went from bmi of 65 to 17 over several years. Now back to 24.
But the major thing is the cost our tax dollars should not be used to subsidize shit that kills us..think about it its insane.

[NashVegas]

129. Nationalizing the Food Chain Would Be An Horrific Solution

We have already seen the results of corporate consolidation on the food chain, and frankly? Government agency chiefs are not reliable.

Remember Mike Espy? There are worse things than accepting football tickets.

The target of Tyson's irritation was Puerto Rico's 1961 poultry law, a classic protectionist measure. Off-island producers found it difficult and costly to enter the isolated market. Until the 1980s, though, no one much cared. Then, as chicken consumption surged, the giant mainland producers faced a problem for which Puerto Rico seemed an ideal solution. Chicken parts, rather than whole broilers, had become popular and were the most profitable way of marketing the birds. But in the states, only the white meat sold well. Since most Latins prefer dark meat, Puerto Rico became a logical place to sell what many mainland Americans wouldn't buy.
...
Not everyone, however, was content with the terms. One of the new rules required that the importer's name appear on each consumer-size package. "We fought for that so we'd be able to trace back where the product came from if people got sick," says Kermidt Troche, the Puerto Rico agriculture department official in charge of enforcing the poultry regulations. "Tyson and others were sending in frozen chicken and thawing it out to sell as fresh. With our power outages and water shortages, we worried about food poisoning from bad chicken. If that happened, we wanted to know who was responsible."

As Clinton took office in Washington on Jan. 20, 1993, Troche detained several million pounds of chicken on the docks in San Juan because the importer's name was missing. Some of the importers, including Tyson's Garcia, argued that a mistake had been made, that they had never intended to agree to a provision that would permit tracing the chicken's origin. Others said the regulation was fine but argued they needed more time to comply. Back in court on Jan. 27, the judge was incredulous. The settlement deliberations had been lengthy and detailed. The parties to the litigation, the judge concluded, had agreed to the new rules with their eyes open. There wasn't any mistake. The embargoed chicken could not be sold.
...
The broiler group serves as the trade association for the poultry industry as a whole, but Tyson dominates the council since dues are paid according to company size. To get action on the Puerto Rican problem, a Tyson executive called George Watts, president of the Broiler Council, who in turn called Espy's chief of staff and the acting Assistant Agriculture Secretary. Since USDA rules don't require the importer's name on consumer-size packages, Watts urged the department to assert the primacy of federal law. Just nine days after Clinton's Inauguration, when the Administration had barely appointed enough staffers to run the department, a career USDA lawyer drafted a letter to Puerto Rico Governor Pedro Rossello, making that rather technical argument. Espy signed it three days later, on Feb. 1. That night, at a National Governors' Association meeting in Washington, Espy urged Rossello to release the embargoed chicken. Two days later the regulation was suspended. The chicken was in.

Take note: that's chicken that was already unlabed, sitting on a dock for 9 days. And by the way:

The talks took a strange turn, in which the chicken industry became the mouthpiece of the U.S. government. While USDA officials had the responsibility to bargain with Puerto Rico, as the earlier court order contemplated, the Broiler Council took over instead. USDA staffers in San Juan say their bosses in Washington told them to back off. "Face it," says a career USDA official who has dealt with the poultry industry for two decades. "On something like this we're not going to accept anything the Broiler Council doesn't want and they're not going to accept anything Tyson doesn't want. So why waste time? Let the Broiler Council carry the ball."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,981158-2,00.html

Stuff like this is why food activists are working our asses off to de-centralize the food distribution system to make it more difficult for graft to be calling the shots.

[Morning Dew]

22. Good genes only gets you so far.

My speedy metabolism allowed me to eat anything any time and not gain an ounce - I hit 137 pounds at about age 15 and remained there.

At age 47, my metabolism slowed and I gained 40 pounds before I realized I was gaining weight - it took another 10 pounds before I could figure out how to stop gaining. 5 years later, I'm still trying to dump the weight.

Good luck with your genetics, your "virtue" might not hold up in the long term.

[paulsby]

30. exactly my point

it's a combination of genetics AND environment. your food environment is YOUR choice, your genetics aren't. some people can eat crap and stay thin and still have great lipid profiles. others cannot. boo fucking hoo. life isn't fair. some people are born ugly, and others pretty. life isn't fair. you still have more choice with your diet than almost any other aspect of your life, and you reap the rewards or pay the consequences. i find that excellent. fwiw, i;m in my 40's. i'm still an elite athlete. is it PARTLY genetics? of course. i am also extremely disciplined in my diet. that's the choice i make for health and for glory. don't tell me what i can or can't eat, and don't get govt. involved in stifling mcdonald's or other food joints. i want CHOICE. that's what makes life in a free country so great. - choice, free from govt. interference. and choice necessarily includes BAD choices. we can't protect peopel from themselves without several restraining liberty.

[bobbolink]

76. "Boo fucking hoo" That pretty much sums up your humanity.

No wonder this society is such a mess.

I hope someday you find yourself on the receiving end of your own judgmentalism.

For that time... boo fucking hoo.

[paulsby]

122. yes, life isn't fair. not everybody can eat cheezy poofs every day

and be model thin. waaaaahhhhhhhhh! and who did i judge? i didn't judge anybody. i said people are and should be FREE TO MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES ABOUT FOOD - GOOD OR BAD. i merely said that they then have to reap the consequences or the benefits. and i have done (i would be willing to bet) more than most people in HELPING people make proper food choices. i used to be a personal trainer, i have written articles for strength training journals, and i even helped one woman be the first woman EVER on her dept. to qualify for the SWAT team. and yes, changing her diet made a huge part of that change. for a woman, being able to do 20 dead hand pullups is a remarkable feat fwiw. diet played a huge part in that. i was lucky enough to have parents and grandparents that 1) taught me how to cook healthy and cheap and from SCRATCH. i never even SAW a processed salad dressing in my house for instance. 2) taught me responsibility. so, yes i was LUCKY. i am all for educating, for labelling, and for helping people to choose better. but i will NOT cede the power to GOVERNMENT to make those choices for us. stay the fuck out of my bedroom, my email, my phone conversations, my sexuality, and my refrigerator. that's my stance on liberty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

207. If you are really poor you cannot afford to buy fresh fruit or vegies

you cannot afford to buy more expensive brands of canned goods WITHOUT HCFCs,

It is either buying the crap you do, or not eating.

It must be good to be able to afford to have that free choice you are so proud off.

[arikara]

106. You are lucky to be so very wonderful

...strong, disciplined and oh so smart. However we all can't be born to be "elite" athletes, can we?

Some people see the ads on the telly and believe them. They actually think the food they are buying in the stores is healthy because it says so on the box. I would prefer the government interfere to the point that it is mandatory for the truth to be told so that people can make informed decisions instead of buying based upon lies and brainwashing.

[paulsby]

123. as soon as govt. becomes the arbiter of truth, we lose freedom

consider that govt. for quite a long time pimped the "four food groups" which is utter rubbish, scientifically speaking. fat is NOT bad . when dr udo erasmus began talking about "good fats" he was laughed at by the AMA and the govt. food "experts". NOW, everybody talks about EFA's. interesting that. if you want to rely on Pravda to tell you what you can and can't do to your own body, knock yourself out. i will do my own research and that includes being skeptical about ALL sources. govt has no monopoly on truth. ever see Reefer Madness? there is already more information on nutrition out ther, and easily accessible at that, than has ever been available in the history of man. for fuck's sake. and with modern equipment, shipping, etc. i can get papaya in december in the pac NW. try THAT 100 years ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

202. Intereesitng that it is YOU who is laughing at the emerging research

showing that the FOOD INDUSTRY is actually creating addictive products, which also take away your vaunted freedom.

You are a libertarian, that is part of your problem. Should we get rid of FDA and EPA while at it? I mean they interfere in your concept of freedom.

By the way, do read The Tragedy of the Commons... you may get a clue while at it.

[bobbolink]

226. Ron Paul lost. Get over it.

[TommyO]

189. It isn't about being an elite athlete, it's about being responsible

for what you put in your own mouth. Instead of boxes, use those oddly shaped things that are at the entrance to every grocery store in the United States, they're called fruits and vegetables. Shop the outside edge of the store, use those center aisles sparingly (after all that's where the beans and rice are).

[nadinbrzezinski]

203. Realize that emerging research is showing scary tings

on how the food industry actually design food

I should also remind you that if you can afford to do that, all for it, but people living under a certain income, or in certain areas of town cannot afford to do that.

I suggest you talk to people living on the edge of poverty, or under it. Realize an apple breaks the budget.

This takes me to our national food policy, called the AG bill... but that is a whole different discussion and one that many in this place do not even acknowledge, since you obviously can buy fresh apples.

[Missy Vixen]

117. And you continue to bully those who weren't lucky enough to obtain your genetic profile

>some people can eat crap and stay thin and still have great lipid profiles. others cannot. boo fucking hoo. life isn't fair. some people are born ugly, and others pretty. life isn't fair.<

And you and others will continue tormenting those of us who aren't as perfect as you are.

Feels good, doesn't it? :woohoo:

[bobbolink]

51. Well, aren't you just the BEST HUMAN?

Yeah, you have the money and you have the options.

Too bad you don't have the compassion and the understanding to go with it.

Your blaming and judgment is exactly WHY people have turned off to ELITIST LIBERALS.

So, go ahead and and blast me some more and blame me and judge me.

I hope that someday it all comes back to you, and you experience for yourself what others of us have to live with, and the judgement we get.

[Luminous Animal]

64. Yep. It is poor people,

and the two earner working class who really do not have the choice.

Even for those, like me, whose income allows them more choice, would be hard pressed to find convenience food that does not contain sugar. After I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I decided to cut out most sugar (let alone HFCS) from my diet. Including fruit sugars. It proved to be very difficult even at my organic coop where I shop almost exclusively. I ended up with 1 variety of bulk granola, 1 variety of sliced bread, 1 variety of soy milk, and 2 varieties of crackers. The crackers were the most outrageously expensive crackers on the shelf.

It is really depressing the limited amount of choices that are available.

[bobbolink]

69. Thank you. And aren't you thankful that you can AFFORD to make those choices?

I'm sick to my stomach with the judgmentalism here!

So many people taking their cues from how the RW talks!

[Luminous Animal]

75. Yes, I am.

The movie, "Food, Inc.", has an illustrative segment highlighting a working class family regarding this point. It was far cheaper for them to eat at McDonald's than to buy fresh produce at the grocery store. It nearly broke my heart to see the sad look on the two daughters faces after they weigh a pear and calculate budget breaking cost of one frickin' pear.

Our food policy is geared to the corporations and the massive brain washing (advertising) to support them. (Witness, the folks that tout real sugar soft drinks as a "healthier" alternative. WOOT!) I think it was Ralph Nader that said advertising geared towards children is child abuse and I absolutely agree. And, of course, it goes beyond advertising, involving our farm policies and price supports which enables unhealthy food to be cheaper than healthy food, the lack of fresh produce in poor communities, and the onus on the individual against the full force of corporate misinformation.

[bobbolink]

77. I wish all the judgmental and superior "progressives" congratulating themselves on this thread

had to face those choices.

I appreciate your understanding, and wish that there was someway to get others here to become human.

It's making me SICK.

This judgmentalism is more damning than poverty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Some of us do get it,

and the personal responsibility shtick bothers me.

yes, we are responsible for what we put in mouth, BUT... when eating a fresh apple is more expensive than apple sauce, then I cannot blame the one choosing the apple sauce

When it is cheaper to buy the HFCS laden bread and that is all you can afford, than the wonderful, seven grain bread made with natural ingredients. well then I cannot blame you either for it, or say it is your fault.

This is part of the national food policy, see AG bill, and it sickens me that so many of the personal responsibility shtick crowd cannot get this. Now they can afford to, fine by me... I try to make the healthiest choices I can afford, and am conscious about it.

Hell yesterday I was berated for not taking kids to eat at Whole Foods, since kitchen was not fully functional... leave the it is out of the way... it is expensive as hell, it is not that healthy either. But hey that person feels that much better for that.

Oh and it goes beyond that. Emerging science is pointing to something rather scary, some of our food combos are almost as addictive as... cocaine. That was damn scary.

HUGS

[Lifelong Protester]

178. I really don't think some people get true poverty

as in, when you are just struggling to survive, make it from day to day, worrying about where the next dollar and meal are coming from, the luxury of being able to go for the really healthy foods (especially if you are in an urban setting and cannot even think of gardening, etc.) and reject the items that have HFCS on the label just doesn't exist. All food within your price range have it. It's cheap, therefore in the cheapest foods. It isn't that people who are poor are illiterate or lazy, as some of the posts here suggest, it is a matter of limited dollars and limited choices. If you are trying to feed a family on a limited budget, as one on any assistance would be, you must stretch that dollar, and unfortunately, the foods with HFCS are the cheapest. And that ingredient is EVERYWHERE. It is like trying NOT to buy an item from China. Unless you have that endless apple supply at your doorstep, avoiding HFCS is problematic. I salute you that can, but please quit making posts that question the literacy or will-power or whatever of those who are struggling to get rid of this stuff from their diet. It isn't like avoiding dairy, it is more like trying to avoid gluten (as in those who have celiac do). It is a darned expensive enterprise.

I don't judge bobolink, and I hope you are successful in your endeavors.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Read Kesskler's book on this, The End of Overeatng

Been readying it, even got a copy for my sis...

Some of the food combos, sugars, fats and salt, are almost as addictive as cocaine.

So it is not just what they put in it, but how it acts in the brain.

I was sick to my stomach

Oh and over the weekend I fed the kids some fast food, my sister's kitchen is a nightmare in the middle of a remodel. Leave the fact that I actually gained weight, the headache this morning... I told hubby that is what PT told me it felt to have a withdrawal.... it was scary.

And yes I do get it.

I hate the RW personal responsibility shtick, since it gives corpos a free pass. Yes, there is some personal responsibility in there, but when it is more expensive to buy apples than to buy apple sauce, there is a problem.

[NashVegas]

142. I'm Astounded By the Naivete and Cluelessness On This One

By the "personal responsibility" crowd, and believe it or not, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt when I say I think they really have no fracking clue about how someone making under $30k a year has to divide their income and their time.

If I eat healthy foods, and cook for myself, it's only because I can now afford to have something other than Ramen noodles and because my own mother grew up and learned to cook in an era before Hamburger Helper and Sloppy Joe's came along.

The last thing in the world I'd want to see is the gov't regulating the food system any more than they've already wrecked it; rather, I think support must be given to non-profit food educators acting in the public interest.

[yodermon]

154. on an individual basis that's fine, but as a Public Health issue

it should be banned. Most of the "public" probably doesn't even know about HFCS.
It's not nanny-state-ish to ban toxic or NEEDLESSLY UNHEALTHY substances. Same goes for trans-fats.
The industry's success is PREDICATED on the ignorance of the public on this issue. How are "advocacy" or "education" groups supposed to compete with massive for-profit companies that wield government-scale power?
Of course if you're of the mindset that it's just "THEIR fault" (the public's), then childhood obesity and diabetes rates are just so much statistical noise in a world of poor pathetic dumbass fatass peons who ought to know better but fuck em if they don't.

[meow2u3]

167. There ought to be warning labels on such foods in large print

It should read: Warning: contains high fructose corn syrup. This way, it would give the consumer an informed choice instead of forcing shoppers to waste time reading the ingredients on the labels of the packaging. I used to have to do that--I took 3 times as long to shop because when I was hypoglycemic (before I got heavy and came down with diabetes) just so I could avoid sugar and/or fructose, which put my insulin in overdrive.


One other thing: BMI doesn't necessarily measure how fat you are--just how big you are. One can be muscular and have a high BMI and not be fat at all; another can have a BMI within the normal range and have a high percentage of body fat. I think the powers that be ought to come up with a modified BMI which factors in percentage of body fat as part of the equation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

211. Actually BMI is pretty accurate

the more accurate method, time consuming as hell, where BMI came from, is fat pinching with calipers.



A rough estimate is also measuring your waist.

It used to be just weight\ height ratio, and that is even worst since it uses ancient data and needs revision... but that is a whole different discussion.

[wolfgangmo]

214. Quicker, more accurate and less invasive...

... is Bio-Impedance Analysis (BIA). Originally developed by the US Navy medical corp, it uses electrical inpedence measurements to give you very accurate results within a few minutes. It is about 97 to 99 % accurate. It is a test we use at our clinic for those who are interested in such things.

And no calipers pinching fat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

216. in theory my scale uses that

has the nice warning if you have a heart condition of course... and of course it is inaccurate as hell

:-)

Yes, geeks are we...

I might suggest it to my doc... as I do exercise quite a bit, and cannot lose any more... and in theory am still quite heavy.

(Now I read the article on Time and the emerging research re intense exercise and weight loss... and how it actually might interfere with it... the reaction here from the PR brigade was predictable to it though)

[MineralMan]

9. We eat what we eat. There are lots of choices out there.

I'm in favor of more choices, not less.

I'll give you an example: I make about half a dozen pies each year, usually mincemeat pies. I hate baking, but there are times when a pie is needed.

I learned from my grandmother how to make a perfect pie crust, and it involves using lard. Not Crisco. Not anything else. Lard.

Now, lard is nasty stuff, chock full of things that aren't good for you, so I rarely use it. But...when it's pie-making time, I buy a block of it and use it. The result is that people who share my pie always exclaim over the light, flaky crust.

Now, I don't think it's a good idea to eat lard very much. But, for pie crusts, it makes all the difference.

You know what? It's getting harder and harder to find lard in the market. These days, I go to the Mexican market in Saint Paul to buy it. Some supermarkets still carry it, though, but a lot have dropped it. Pity, since it makes such good pie crusts.

[NashVegas]

137. What Do You Use For Filling?

I bet it's tasty.

[MineralMan]

186. Do you mean for the mincemeat pies?

If so, I make my own, with apples, raisins, some onion, and a little tamarind pulp. The seasoning mix is pretty complicated. There's suet in it, too, yet another animal fat that's getting hard to come by.

The other pies I make are apple and cherry, all made with fresh fruit...never the canned pie filling.

Like I said, about six a year. Two at Thanksgiving and Christmas. The other two I make for times when we're entertaining.

Oh, there's one other pie I make. It's a savory tomato and onion pie. There's cheese and basil and oregano in it. Same double crust. It is amazingly wonderful.

There's a recipe for it, using refrigerated pie crusts, on my web site under Whimsy. Joe Soucheray's Savory Tomato Pie is the title of the entry. The site address is in my profile.

[wolfgangmo]

212. YOu don't have to use lard.

A pastry chef I used to work with in a restuarant said that lard works great because of it's high acid content, which activates the gluten thus making things light and flakey. I think she said it was full of uric acid, which is gross, but I could be remembering wrong.

I took her advice when I was experimenting with whole grain pie crusts and my mom's recipe for crusts (her's were light and flakey and great) and discovered that she used a bit of vinegar in the final steps and then folded and pressed the crust several times until layers were created.

Give it a try.

[jmowreader]

222. I used to use lard; now I use butter

I find it fairly easy to get lard--in Fayettenam all the Food Lions, plus Walmart and Super Compare Foods (a regional supermarket chain in at least NC that was started by Mexicans) carry it, and of course when I go to Texas I can go to Fiesta Mart or HEB and get it there.

But this is what I make pie crust from now...

1-1/2 cups flour
1 stick unsalted butter--no, margarine will not do
1 large egg
1 teaspoon vanilla

Cut butter into flour as you normally would shortening; use egg and vanilla for your liquid. Bake 14 minutes at 350 degrees, or use in a filled pie.

There's only one problem with this crust: if you're making a pie that isn't baked with the filling in it you HAVE to bake it by time, not by inspection. A regular crust is done when it's golden brown. This crust starts out looking brown because of all the yellow ingredients that are in it.

[panader0]

10. I quit drinking beer recently and started buying juices

Almost everything, except the real expensive stuff has HFCS. All sodas do too. The diet ones have Asparteme or Splenda, arguablby worse than HFCS. 12 ozs of cranberry juice has 180 calories, my light beer had 104. Now where did I put that six-pack?

[MineralMan]

14. Funny. I drink juice all the time. Not a speck of HFCS in any of it.

I buy oranges and use my citrus juicer to get just the amount I need. Apple juice that is 100% apple juice has none of that crap in it. You can also buy many other juices that are blends of white grape and apple juice with other juices. No HFCS in those, either.

I don't drink sodas, except a Coca Cola on occasion. I keep a case of Mexican Coke in my basement. Bought it at the Mexican market in town. No HFCS in it at all, just cane sugar.

I drink a lot of water, too. No HFCS in that, and no sugar. Works a treat to keep me hydrated, too.

[Critters2]

24. Yep. The phrase "100 % juice" means just that. Lots of "100%" juice out there. nt

[HillbillyBob]

53. I guess that the juices / juice drinks offered depend on where you

live. I live in rural NC there are 2 juices offered at the local supermarket Pomegranate and apple cider. Much as I live cider combined with my meds...I would a have to stay at home near the bathroom, past experience tells me that.
The pomegranate is 10$ a bottle. On a fixed income its either the bills and food (since I don't eat the rest of the chemical crap) comes before juice. I do drink about 2 gallons of water per day though.

[bobbolink]

58. Isn't it GREAT to be affluent?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

71. Do you know the etymology of the word "fructose."

It contains the suffix "-ose" meaning it's a sugar, and the root "fructus" which is Latin for fruit.

Why? Because fructose is sugar that comes from fruit. Most fruits are high in fructose.

Oranges? Yup, high in fructose.

[OnyxCollie]

118. It's a bit disingenuous to compare fructose to HFCS.

That's like comparing Vidalia onions to Funyuns.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

164. It's like comparing onions to onions.

Same thing.

[whopis01]

175. Actually it isn't the same thing

What you may not realize is that high fructose corn syrup really is not all that high in fructose. In fact it can be as little as 42% fructose (for the kind used in baked goods) and up to about 55% fructose (for the kind used in sodas). The remaining portion is glucose and that is where the difference lies.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

180. So is the problem fructose or glucose.

Because oranges, honey, etc. have mixtures of fructose and glucose, with fructose typically slightly higher than glucose.

Same thing with corn. Which makes sense, since HFCS is just sugar that comes from corn.

[whopis01]

199. To be honest, I'm not really sure

Fructose seems to lead to certain problems - but so does glucose. I imagine it is far more an issue of the total amount of sugar ingested, regardless of the source. You probably get more nutrition drinking fruit juice than you do soda - but if you were to consume the same amount of sugar, it is going to lead to the same problems.

[Political Heretic]

210. It's not the same thing at all.

Fructose is its own thing - HIGH fructose CORN SYRUP is its own concoction that is downright nasty. I thought that was well accepted consensus, because its the only science findings I've ever read on HFCS.... is there alternative research that contradicts the standard research conclusions about HFCS that I'm not aware of?

That's very likely since I'm not a health science expert... please let me know though.

[MineralMan]

124. Yes, and fructose is good for you. It's the ideal sugar

for human consumption, especially when combined with the high fiber content of most fruits. Combined with corn syrup, not so much.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

165. Fiber? In orange juice?

[MineralMan]

185. You bet. The pulp in orange juice is one of the best sources of

natural fiber there is. Constipated? Eat a couple of oranges. That'll take care of it. If you squeeze your own, there's plenty of fiber. Or, if you buy juice, buy the variety with lots of pulp.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

187. lulz

http://www.wellsphere.com/exercise-article/coffee-has-more-soluble-fiber-than-orange-juice/237166

[dysfunctional press]

84. drinking a lot of juice can be just as bad as drinking a lot of pop.

fruit juice is very high in fructose.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. SHHH he is trying to teach us peasants how it is done

On a serious note dentists usually advise people not to abuse the juices just like they advise not to abuse the candy and soda...

There must be a reason... I really don't know...

:thumbsup:

[whopis01]

174. Some fruit juices are potentially worse for your teeth than soda and candy...

Tooth decay is caused by the acids created by bacteria that live in our mouths. A lot of fruit juices have a high acid content as well as a lot of sugar, so it is sort of a double-whammy. When you drink soda, you at least have some time to clean your teeth before the acid production begins.

[nadinbrzezinski]

219. I know, the last time I had an OJ was over 20 years ago

and there is a reason for that. My juice is limited to things like a V8 these days, when I don't feel I ate enough veggies.

[MineralMan]

132. It is full of fructose. I have one 9 oz. glass of juice each morning.

Is that too much, do you think? The rest of the day, I drink tap water. Then, in the evening, I have a glass of wine with my dinner.

How am I doing?

[dysfunctional press]

135. it sounds like you're completely lacking in comprehension...

unless you consider one 9 ounce glass to be "lots"...

:eyes:

[MineralMan]

146. I do think it's lots. It's an indulgence for me.

It's a big treat to have a glass of fresh-squeezed orange or grapefruit juice with breakfast. I don't have to have it, but enjoy it a great deal.

It's good for me, too. Lots of fiber, bioflavinoids, and vitamin C in that glass. It usually takes one or two oranges to fill the glass. I have a big old glass citrus reamer I bought at a garage sale. Cleaning it just involves rinsing it out under the tap. It takes me maybe 1 minute to juice the oranges, and 30 seconds to rinse off the knife and juicer and glass.

Still, it's an indulgence. The sweet, fresh flavor of the orange or grapefruit juice just seems to get my morning started just right, so I do it. When I used to live in California, the oranges came from a tree in my yard for several months of the year. Now, I have to buy them. Not cheap, but not so bad if you watch for bargains.

So, yes, I consider one glass of fresh juice a day to be lots. I'm more than aware that not everyone has access to such a luxury, particularly in countries where poverty is endemic. So, I'm fortunate to be able to drink lots of juice.

[dysfunctional press]

197. whatever...

:eyes:

[flvegan]

12. Personal responsibility? From what planet come you?

[MineralMan]

15. The fourth planet circling Vega.

Ha! I'm a Vegan.

[flvegan]

28. !

:rofl:

Good one. :thumbsup:

[Ignis]

184. Much like these creatures?

[Luminous Animal]

86. I am on the planet earth...

which is home the United States which is beholden to the corporate driven agenda which makes food policies that ensures that unhealthy food is far cheaper than healthy food, that children and adults are subjected to the full force of a billions of dollars of brainwashing, where our choices are limited to dozens of fat, salt, and sugar laden cereals, bread and snacks, to 2 or 3 healthy alternatives.

[flvegan]

87. Basic nutrition isn't that hard to learn.

Unhealthy food isn't FAR cheaper if you know how to eat and shop. Maybe it's time folks took the time to learn how to fuel their bodies. The vast majority of people know what gas to put in their car, right?

[Luminous Animal]

90. You assume that people have the money and time.

It is a documented fact that poor communities lack access to fresh produce. It is a documented fact that the most 2 earner working class families have neither the time or resources to prepare healthy food. It is a documented fact that the misinformation provided by obscenely wealthy "food" corporations is in direct competition with the self-funded nutrition activists. It took over 50 years of activism to properly educate the public about the dangers of lead and the push back from the lead industry was just as misleading and well-funded as the efforts against proper food education waged by corporate ag today. Lead did not begin to be properly addressed until the EPA got involved. (And, even now, suffers a push back from corporate interests.)

Inadequate access to nutritious foods, price supports for foods that in turn become unhealthy additives, and corporate misinformation about our food and health are public health issues and need to be addressed by the government.

[flvegan]

91. I assume nothing, thanks.

I'd like to see the documentation that clearly states that "most 2 earner working class families have neither the time or resources to prepare healthy food."

Please provide. Much appreciated.

Oh, and if you think this government is ever going to do shit about improving the diet of the average American, then I question your sanity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. They have in the past, or did you miss the food stamp programs and the school lunch program

You know WHERE that came from, right?

[flvegan]

96. Yeah, the 1930's.

Was this supposed to somehow fulfill my request?

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Food stamps go to the sixties, so does WIC

you said the government never does this. Well they do, from time to time.

[flvegan]

98. So then the answer is no.

You should really look into what the government deems "nutritional" for the school lunch program. Last I checked it was based in the mid-90's and could be 30% or so fat and 10% or so saturated fat for the day. Feed them shit, so long as they meet minimal shit requirements. Oh, and it's okay to shove food of zero nutritional value on them, but only during certain parts of the day.

Yeah, that's caring BIG time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. You said they never do

I told you they have.

And that was the point

Now if being shown the facts is not enough, I guess we are done.

(by the way I was not talking of the problems with the program starting with the Reagan administration, just that yes the government HAS intervened in the past)

Oh and in fact they do, every five years... it is called the AG bill... and it is one that people in cities care little for, but there is where a REAL difference could happen if city folk cared to lobby Congress.

[flvegan]

107. So you think what I posted is an improvement?

Quality of "food" gets worse, they recommend it more. That's improvement? Okay. If you say so.

Seriously, nutrition. It's worth spending a good amount of study time on.

Have a good evening, because yeah, we're done.

[yellowcanine]

152. WIC provides vouchers for farmer's markets, the Food Stamp and Nutrition Education (FSNE) program

educates food stamp recipients on nutrition. I don't think it is really fair to say that nothing is being done. The old food pyramid and the new "My Pyramid" are USDA programs that were and are being implemented to teach adults and children about nutrition and exercise for good health. I work in a county extension office - I see our FSNE educator (paid for with a USDA grant) working hard to teach food stamp recipients how to get good nutrition on a budget. I personally helped to facilitate getting local farmers to sell produce adjacent to a WIC office so that clients could use their WIC vouchers to buy fresh produce. The WIC voucher program was just expanded this FY to allow distribution of the vouchers to senior citizens. So please don't paint with such a broad brush.

[yellowcanine]

144. It does not cost money or time to drink tap water instead of sugared drinks.

That would be a start right there. It is a matter of education. Sugared drinks may be cheap but they still cost something. Tap water is not always free but it is a darn sight cheaper than a soda.

[Dora]

29. I think both choices are the solution.

The only way the market will remove HFCS from their product is if we stop buying it.

[Lorien]

38. Especially when they profit big corporations that contribute to the GOP and

DLC, eh? Can't protect public health over corporate profits! That would be like....SOCIALISM!!!:crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. First off it is everywhere

second off, why don't you buy a clue and realize corporations have a certain responsibity

And third, it is as cheap as it is due to subsidies.

Oh here is a book for you, The end of overeating, by Kessler...

[bobbolink]

50. But you're BIG on blaming others, right?

Do you have ANY idea how it is to be poor, and not have the MONEY that you have to buy the "pure" things that you buy?

Have you ever actually checked these things?

Do you realize that the cheapest orange juice, grape juice, yoghurt, etc ALL have HFCS???

Do you begin to understand why DEMS get called "ELITIST"????

I strongly suspect you will come back with the typical defensive attack.... if you think that is winning any converts to liberalism or progressivism, think again.

Not that you will probably care.

[complain jane]

95. I already do that.

Occasionally I find that shit on the ingredients label of something I would have otherwise purchased, for example certain beverages.

So I think these companies should take this garbage out of their products and actually have some standards.

[NashVegas]

125. Where Do You Shop?

Try going into a Kroger, a Price Chopper, a Harris Teeter, or Publix, or Hannaford Bros, and head to the section where they keep all the marinades.

In the two of the three main stores I shop at, there isn't a single brand left that hasn't replaced sugar with HFCS. In the one store that does, you have to head to an entirely different section where the organics are shelved.

[MineralMan]

126. Marinades? Who buys that expensive crap?

Simple food, simply prepared. That's what I eat. I buy few processed foods, frankly. If I want to marinate a piece of meat, I combine olive oil and wine vinegar, along with the seasonings I want to use. I can't imagine that some bottled marinade would work as well.

A lot of posts in this thread have to do with things like soda pop. That is not a food. I drink one about once a week, but prefer lemonade.

People complain about the time required to prepare food. I can't remember a meal I've made that took longer than about 30 minutes prep time. Some take longer to cook, of course, but I'm doing something else during that time.

People complain that "everything has HFCS in it." Not so. Not at all. Not a drop of it in fresh produce. None in dry beans. None in chicken or turkey. None in potatos. Lots in processed food. So, don't buy that crap.

People complain about cost and tell me I must be rich. Not at all. I shop very carefully and design my means based on what is available and in season. I shop my local farmers' market and buy what's reasonably priced. I don't buy cut-up chicken parts. I buy chickens. I have a knife. I buy turkeys, always an inexpensive source of protein. I buy dried beans, dried pastas, rice, lentils, and buy spices in the little plastic envelopes over in the produce section, rather than in expensive bottles. Same stuff.

I eat fresh fish. I catch it myself. I have tomato plants on the patio.

I'm in charge of what goes in my mouth. Completely in charge. My wife likes my cooking. I work hard at it.

Take charge of your food. It'll taste better and you'll be healthier. Don't wait for the government to fix your diet. For pete's sake!

[NashVegas]

130. And I've No Doubt You're a Fabulous Chef!

To enjoy cooking so much that you'll even go that extra, extra, step to make your own marinades.

Not everyone has the inclination, the skills, and the time, ever time they have use for one.

You reckon we're all just supposed to accept junk as punishment for laziness?

[MineralMan]

139. Thanks, but I'm just a good ordinary cook...

Learned that from my Mom, who is also a good cook. As for the time to make a marinade, it barely takes longer than opening a bottle. Some olive oil, some vinegar, some salt and pepper and maybe another seasoning. I like to put a little crushed garlic in there, too. Usually, though, I cook meats with just some salt and pepper. Marinades are not my main way of cooking.

Plain cooking doesn't take much time, really. I can have a spaghetti dinner on the table in exactly 30 minutes from the time I go into the kitchen, and without a single processed ingredient in it. Good, too.

Yes you have to learn some basic cooking skills. There are many cookbooks to help. After a while, though, you find you never use cookbooks. I've been cooking for 40+ years now, so I have learned a lot, I suppose.

As for inclination, well, I can't help you with that. I'm inclined to like eating good food. The stuff I make tastes a lot better than either pre-prepared meals or stuff that goes in the microwave. I'm also concerned with eating in a healthy way, and the best way to do that is to prepare the food myself.

It's your choice, really. I can see how it would be hard to find good, healthy food in a box or can. Just passing a law banning HFCS won't change that, though, I'm afraid.

Your best defense is to cook it yourself.

[NashVegas]

160. Yes, You Really Are Lucky

My mom was a good cook, too, and it helped that she was born and raised (on a farm, no less) in an era where processed foods simply didn't exist, and it was the Depression, when people learned by necessity how to stretch a dime. We were lower income, but to stretch a dollar she'd resort to fixing pancakes for dinner rather than buy TV dinners.

Like you, I do most of my own cooking (although I'd never, in a million years, have spaghetti on a weeknight when I don't have the whole day to make sauce).

Nonetheless, it's simply unrealistic to expect everyone to, and all the time. Considering how much of the matter is decided by income, education and the ability to deflect the daily bombardment of advertising, it's beyond unrealistic and headed towards outright snobbery towards those less fortunate - and I'm sure you don't mean to be.

[MattSh]

153. No?

How about if it's poison? OK, not for everybody, but for a good number of people. Then say, instead of informing you that something in this food could be very unhealthy for a certain number of people, they instead advertise that it's new and improved. Oh, and it's cheaper than the competition, which then might force said companies competitors to drop the more expensive healthy ingredient for the cheaper less healthy ingredient to remain competitive. And all mislabel or use misleading advertising to convince you that it's A-OK. Still don't want to unilaterally remove stuff from things?

Or are you assuming the FDA would regulate this type of misleading advertising and misbehavior? How's that been working for ya? And how about if your health insurance premiums and co-pays increase because the population in general is less healthy? Still OK for you?

Well, it shouldn't be. It costs everyone. Including you...

[patrick t. cakes]

169. its in everything.

[truth2power]

188. It's in everything! check it out....

Actually, just FYI, Log Cabin pancake syrup has recently removed HFCS from their product. I've been buying that in preference to other syrups recently.

My guess would be, though, that HFCS is in maybe 95% of food items you can name.

[KakistocracyHater]

195. take out the sodium-have you SEEN how HIGH that is? My Mom has bp

problems, too high, so we started looking at salt content-wow. It is very difficult to find even bread with low sodium. Salt/baking soda/powder acts as a leavening as well as a preservative, so it is everywhere.

[wolfgangmo]

204. You aren't?

OK - how about lead in childrens toys? Is that OK?

HFCS is very bad for long term health and very addictive. Let's drop the "blame the victim" meme, shall we?

[Political Heretic]

208. Do you know that its in almost ALL bread you can buy?

Once I literally could not find bread to buy at the only store I could go to that did not have HFCS in it for "flavor."

Sooner or later, so-called liberals on this board are going to have to "get" that the whole "just take more personal responsibility" bullshit meme is appropriate translated into plain English as: "I will never ask corporations or the wealthy elite to be accountable for their actions."

The language of personal responsibility, in politics, is merely a way to blame the worker first and ignore systemic inequities or abuses.

It does not need to be said that we can all work hard to counter the forces working against our best interests by being extra diligent about what we eat or buy. But there's no need to state that in response to a suggestion that corporations and industry be more accountable. And its important to remember that if we weren't constantly being exploited we wouldn't have to worry about being so hyper-alert.

[Horse with no Name]

209. How about considering that the cheap food has it included

in it and poor people don't have a choice?
Forget the weight gain, Type II Diabetes is epidemic.
There is really no good reason for the HFCS to be included except the corn industry had some damned good lobbyists.

And as for you not being too keen on randomly taking stuff out--I'm 100% AGAINST randomly putting stuff in!

[Avalux]

4. Agree. It's difficult, but I don't buy anything containing HFCS.

Most people don't pay any attention though and keep ingesting the nasty stuff. Instead of banning it, people should just quit buying it. Easier said than done though.

[bobbolink]

59. That's because you're sooooo superior to people who don't have the $$$$$ that you have.

Must be nice to look down from on high.

[Avalux]

61. Why the insult? I don't have a lot of $$$.

I just eat a lot of fresh foods and bake my own bread. It's not easy and it takes some planning but it can be done. :shrug:

[bobbolink]

67. Try being POOR, dammit.

I'm so fucking sick of all the superior attitudes and patting oneself on the back, here, then wondering why poor folk have given up on Elitist Dems!

If you can't hear the superior tone of your post, then you need to do some serious listening to yourself.

This is NOT how Dems used to talk.. this is parroting the RW.

edited to add... if you think that is an insult, then try listening to your own words from the standpoint of people who you consider beneath you.

[Avalux]

70. I have been poor, and homeless.

I still didn't eat crap. If you note a tone of superiority in my post, it's coming from within yourself.

[bobbolink]

72. IF that is actually, true, and I have my doubts, then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Because you have learned NOTHING.

Read through all the self-congratulatory posts here, and ask yourself if you would HONESTLY want to be friends with people who judge in this way. Would you like to be on the receiving end of your judgmentalism? You really think you are so much better than the RWers who judge?

All this superiority is showing the POVERTY OF UNDERSTANDING of what passes for the "left" now.

No wonder the party has been going downhill.

[Avalux]

73. Judge in what way?

I made the point that it's easier for people to eat 'convenient' food than take the time to find/prepare more healthier foods. THAT has nothing to do with one's socioeconomic status. I know people with a lot of money who eat crap.

BTW, I was homeless - with 3 young daughters. I don't think I'm superior to anyone and I am thankful every day I my life is different now.

[bobbolink]

78. Can't you read your own words? Can't you see your own superiority?

On one hand, you say you understand, but then you go ahead and say that people are ignorant and it's their own fault.

YOU SOUND JUST LIKE A DAMNED RWer!

LISTEN TO YOURSELF!

[Avalux]

80. I never used the word ignorant - that is your word.

It's a matter of choice and I think it's either because they don't know, don't care or don't have time. I am not judging them. I realize expecting everyone to magically stop eating HFCS isn't going to happen.

I haven't called anyone names, I haven't insulted you. Are you reading your own posts?

[bobbolink]

81. Oh, for gawd's sake.. LISTEN TO YOURSELF.

Go back and read your self-congratulatory words.

If you had been homeless and in a shelter, you wouldn't have had ANY choice in what you eat, and you KNOW that.

So stop saying that people are making their own choices, when so many have NO CHOICE.

WhaT'S REALLY frightening that is so many here are so judgmental and derogatory towards others, and can't even see it in themselves. You are patting yourself on that back that you haven't insulted anyone, when you have stood above so many and judged.

Just like the damned RW.

[Avalux]

82. So let me ask you a question -

If you suddenly had a huge bank account, how would you eat - in what way different than how you do now?

[Horse with no Name]

220. I always see lots of breadmakers in homeless

carts. They also carry generators to run them. :wtf:

[rd_kent]

148. Ive noticed that you only insult those who say "make a healthy choice"

and yet you offer no solution to the problem. Do you have any ideas that can help people makes better choices about the food they consume? Or will you just insult me too?

[bobbolink]

198. Since you obviously can't READ, the SOLUTION was offered in the OP, and the title.

but, noooooooooo, you rather imitate a RWer and say we don't need no stinkin' laws, we just need more 'sponsibility.

[closeupready]

60. I always read the ingredients - no HFCS for me. My rule of thumb: if I can't pronounce it,

it goes back on the shelf.

[elocs]

5. Well, good luck with that.

It's hard to find a lot of foods that do not have high fructose corn syrup in them.

As far as the BMI goes, I just had my physical exam tonight and my BMI was 28.8, but my doctor said not to worry about it because for guys they consider it good if it is under 30. I told him I weigh 30 pounds more than I weighed when I graduated from high school over 39 years ago, but my waist size is the same. Not all weight is equally bad.

[WCGreen]

11. Pepsi and Coke are both marketing Old Fashioned cane sugar

sweetened pop. No corn-syrup.

It tastes pretty good, like I remember pop tasting.

[Sebastian Doyle]

31. Not really.

The Pepsi Throwback was a "limited time only" promotion and it's gone. True, they're test marketing something called "Pepsi Natural" which they call a cola, but it doesn't taste anything like Pepsi. More like liquid brown sugar. And even that is only in a few states, last I heard.

Coca Cola has no products made with sugar in the US, apart from the annual limited "Kosher" release, which is only available in areas with higher Jewish populations and even then only around Passover season. The Mexican Coca-Cola is available in some markets, even in some Costco stores (at three times the price of a case of domestic HFCS Coke) but the folks in Atlanta have nothing to do with it.

In any event, both Coke and Pepsi KNOW what the public wants, but so far have refused to deliver, at least long term.

[bvar22]

43. We found Mexican Coke (imported) in a small town not too far away...

DeQueen, Arkansas, which has a large Mexican population and some markets that cater to Mexicans.
Cost $1.00/bottle....no fructose, cane sugar.
My wife and I also enjoyed some of the best Mexican food we have had in a while, also from a locally Mexican (now American) owned business.

[roamer65]

46. Try Jones Soda, they use inverted cane sugar.

The smooth, sweetness is damn good. I found their cane sugar cola the other weekend and it rivaled Pepsi throwback.

I am really gonna miss MD Throwback. It was like a "wayback machine" to the 1970's

[Sebastian Doyle]

52. Jones is great stuff.

I buy it every once in a while. I could get addicted to the Green Apple, which is WHY it's only once in a while, but the root beer and cream soda are great too. I haven't tried their cola yet.

Red Bull Cola is also made with real sugar. I'm not exactly sure how or why, but it's actually NOT made by the same company that makes the other Red Bull drink (which still uses HFCS, is far as I know) so they somehow managed to get it released here using the same exact recipe that is used in Europe. Good stuff.... reminds me of what RC cola used to taste like before the bait and switch to the MonSatan corn poison :evilfrown:

[roamer65]

57. Green Apple is amazing, but only is with real sugar.

HFCS would make it taste like cough syrup. Green Apple is good stuff. Look around for their cola, I think you'll like that too.

[WCGreen]

89. THey had it at COSTCO,,,,

Damn, that stuff was good.

[yellowcanine]

141. It is still sugar. Drink water and teach your kids to drink water.

Sugared drinks are a huge part of the problem - HFCS OR cane sugar. Your body does not know the difference once you have swallowed it.

[InvisibleTouch]

88. I've found Mexican Coke at Kroger's.

Look in the "international foods" section, it's in glass bottles. Way too expensive for me to buy more often than an occasional treat, but far better than the canned HFCS stuff!

[Sebastian Doyle]

92. Don't have Krogers up here (at least not under that name)

We have Fred Meyer and QFC, both of which were bought out by Krogers in recent years. But I don't think I've seen Mexi-Coke at either one. The Fred Meyer closest to me happens to be right next to Costco, so that might be reason enough for them to consider selling it, and stealing some customers.

[cascadiance]

114. You can get Mexican coke in Costco

I've been getting it for the last few years now...

[mvd]

223. I didn't know that - thanks

I'll have to go look.

[mvd]

224. How widespread is Mexican Coke at Costco?

Is it mostly at Costcos on the West Coast? I live in Pennsylvania.

[yellowcanine]

163. Tap water has no HFCS and it is very cheap. Fresh fruits and vegetables have no HFCS.

Fresh fruits do have fructose in them, as well as starch, however so one should still eat even them in moderation as well as get enough exercise, which is actually just as important for weight management as portion control, which is the real way to control weight and body fat, not avoiding all food containing HFCS.

[BlooInBloo]

7. I'm more in favor of people learning how to not put things in their mouths...

if those things aren't healthy for them.

But if one is going to push this sort of thing, is there any A-Team kind of contraption one could gin up to filter the stuff out in some fashion? Just curious.

[valerief]

13. Yes, yes, yes, and yes again! nt

[PDJane]

18. Add the mecury from processing, and you have a toxic brew.

I don't eat the stuff. I can't. I'm allergic to corn and beets. I have one HELL of a time finding guaranteed cane sugar. I buy honey in 2L buckets from the farmer's market....guaranteed Ontario honey. I cook. Everything. That includes bread and granola cereal.

I do, however, think that our lives would be much easier if we revamped the system and restrained corporations.

[Lorien]

37. Agreed. I don't eat it either, but I also work out of my house

if I were still working 16 hours a day at the studio, where the company had food brought in for us daily, then I wouldn't find it as easy to control my HFCS intake. Those 16 hour days didn't allow for grocery shopping or cooking.

[PDJane]

65. I fully agree........

I couldn't control it when I was working either...and I'm often in too much pain now to control intake if I'm out of the house.

It's a major problem, and fixing the system would be a fine thing to do. I suspect that will fix itself as the oil runs out. We'll see, I guess.

[Jane Austin]

19. If one of your sins is ice cream with chocolate syrup,

Hershey's Syrup has HFCS, but Nestle's chocolate syrup (in a yellow bottle for some reason) does not.

It's made with sugar.

[randr]

23. HFCS is a Monsanto product

and consumes enormous amounts of water and petro chemicals to produce.
It is responsible for a sizable amount of CO2 emissions as well.

[Lorien]

36. Bingo. Plus a lot of people are not savvy to it's effects on blood sugar levels

diabetes is profitable for some companies, so is the diet industry, but intentionally harming people (and pets-it's in their food too) and the planet for profit...there's nothing "Progressive" about that. RWers can scream about "personal responsibility" all they want, but not all Americans are even literate, let along health savvy. Why prop up the use of an unnatural substance that's a danger to public health? Or is this now "Libertarian Underground"?

[FarCenter]

55. The HFC market is controlled by Archer Daniels Midland, Cargill, Staley Manufacturing Co., CPC Inter

Monsanto? Not so far as I know. They are in the seeds, insecticide and herbicide business of corn growing, not in the processing of corn into foodstuff and other materials.

[randr]

177. Monsato makes it very profitable

for ADM etal with their Roundup ready seed.

[FarCenter]

192. Roundup ready corn is no better for making HFCS than any other corn

ADM and the others were doing great business in high fructose corn syrup long before Roundup Ready corn was produced by Monsanto.

[Critters2]

25. People will just get fat on other sugars. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. the current epydemic matches the introduction of HFCS

almost by year.

So no, I don't think so.

They are processed in a different way by the body, so it appears.

They also have other effects that cane sugar does not have on the human body.

[anigbrowl]

26. Remove high-fructose corn syrup from your diet

It's much easier when you don't have to wait for wait for someone else to act first. You can still eat lots of delicious stuff; there's no HFCS (or any other weird additives) in Haagen-Dazs ice cream, for example.

[HillbillyBob]

39. If you buy from a supermarket , look at the labels

Almost all of it is processed, it has chemicals that I cannot pronounce the names of even the so called whole wheat bread has junk in it, HFCS too.
If it has the words hydrolyzed or hydrogenated corn, canola, sunflower, safflower, peanut oils , the key there is the hydrogenated or hydrolyzed, think of it this way you are eating plastic that goes right to fat and artery clogging plaque.
Hydrolyzed/Hydrogenated Petroleum is PLASTIC.

At one time I weighed 258, bmi of 65, bp was outrageous, total cholesterol was 353.
My dr said "You will have a stroke before lunch and it is already 10:30".
I had a little Porsche 914 2 seaterand I got stuck in it when I left the drs office to get some jeans I got stuck behind the wheel, some passerby helped me out, I went in to try on jeans 44 was the largest they had and I could not get them buttoned.

Well I went on to the store after to get some veggies, fresh ones not canned.
I started to alter my diet, I lost 80 pounds in 2 years it took me a few more to loose the rest..then I got very ill from the HIV and really lost too much weight.
Its been a long road to relative health I have been through cancer, heart attack(but long after I had cleaned up my act it was a left over).

Moderation is the key and leaving all the chemicals out of my diet I have a coke now and then, I have my two glasses of red wine every other night or so. I have a couple cups of coffee in the morning, but mostly drink water. I have desert now and then and have pretty much eliminated corn syrup at all from my diet.

If I buy veggies in the supermarket I buy frozen or fresh from the farmers market, not canned all of those are salted. I try to buy fresh and we have a garden. I buy grassfed beef from a neighboring farm, honey and free range eggs from our neighbor.
Most cities have farmers markets and there are a lot more farms that sell on a subscription.

All that said, I still think that the FDA and USDA need to ban all these chemicals that are not really food at all, and for you freepers bite me, free enterprise is about selling real things not poison disguised as food. We get obese from eating this shit because our bodies do not know what to do with it it stores it as fat, that may be just my opinion, but since my father and grandfather both had pancakes with cornsyrup and fried food in corn oil (a lot) they are both diabetic, that may not prove anything but since I took corn products that are chemically altered from my diet I am no longer having diabetic type issues, my blood sugar was over 100 for a long time, but since then it has always been between 50-80 fasting, and I have fewer blood sugar/glycemic issues, I was border line diabetic at 30 years old , today at 48 I am mostly fine considering that I am 25 years HIV pos (since diagnosis).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. Hydrogenated fats are plastic?

How interesting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Good for you, and you want some evidence

read Kessler's The End of Overeating...

You will not be too surprised by what you read.

Me, we have cleaned our act quite a bit since I have Type two... but there is more to clean up.

[roamer65]

44. I'm drinking real sugar sodas now.

Had a couple of HFCS sodas recently and they tasted like cough syrup. There is no substitute for real sugar.

Jones Soda, Mexican Coke, Dublin Dr Pepper are light years better.

I really love Jones Soda "MF Grape"

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

134. FYI, there is some HFCS in your real sugar soda.

Probably alot less, but there is some.
Don't let that stop you though.

[deaniac21]

48. I always get low-fructose

[bvar22]

49. My wife & I feel so strongly about this....

...that we moved to The Woods and planted a BIG garden.
We are working toward eliminating all packaged or processed foods.
We started 2 HoneyBee colonies and use our own honey as a sweetener when necessary.



Beware of Honey...even "store bought", but especially "roadside".
Many unscrupulous vendors "expand" their honey with Caro Syrup (fructose).

[imdjh]

54. You mean some of those roadside stand people are dishonest?

Like the one off 95 which sells "Amish Candy" that looks surprisingly like bulk twizzlers?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Honey, eh?

Do you realize that honey has a higher fructose/glucose ratio than high fructose corn syrup?

It's high fructose bee syrup.

[bvar22]

74. No, I didn't know that.

We'll stick with the honey.

[Lifelong Protester]

176. that is a beautiful picture!

[Swamp Rat]

62. k&r

cane sugar rules!

[defendandprotect]

63. k i c k

[dysfunctional press]

85. what they need to do is stop subsidizing it, and/or tax it like alcohol or tobacco....

there should be a "sin" tax on soda, to help cover the healthcare costs of the problems it creates.

[cascadiance]

112. Subsidizing ag exports as well as our free trade laws CAUSES illegal immigration too!

When you have our corporations "dumping" underpriced exports that are funded through subsidies paid for by the American taxpayer, they put farmers in Sout America out of work if they can't compete with these imports and force them to sell off their land to local elites beholden to the IMF and World Bank. Then this land is used to build "Maquillas" or outsourcing factories for our corporations to get cheap labor (the out of work farmers) to make stuff to ship back to us in the USA instead of using American workers. Then if they can do it cheaper in Southeast Asia, they pack up shop and move there, and those left out of work move here as illegals to get work. And the companies like that too, because it drives down wages here as well as wherever they go to take advantage of the cheapest overseas, and they can have it better for them wherever they set up shop.

That's why ag subsidies and the free trade agreements are insidious and need to be fixed.

[dysfunctional press]

140. we need to have the same kinds of tarriffs that other countries do...

but that wouldn't be good for the oligarch business- so it won't happen anytime soon.

[Spider Jerusalem]

100. It's NOT high-fructose corn syrup causing obesity.

Is it a contributing factor? Possibly. But high-fructose corn syrup is unknown in the UK. Soft drinks, candies, etc, all sweetened with sugar. And the UK still has obesity levels close to those of the US. Blaming it on HFCS is convenient, but there are a lot of other factors involved: sedentary lifestyles, lack of exercise, and the sheer ease and availability of high-sugar, high-fat foods. Humans did not evolve to live in an environment where such things could comprise the bulk of our diet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. It is a contributing factor a serious one

now to the UK its rates actually are serious (all of Europe are), but they are not close to the US. The fatest countries right now are Mexico (where guess what kind of crap has invaded) and the US.

They also have high rates of diabetes.

This is also expanding East (China and Japan) as western diets become more common, so the effect of highly caloric dense foods are part of it.

Of course in the US we also have the issue of portions and portion distortion to take into account and all that happy horse.

[Spider Jerusalem]

104. A more significant correlation, I think:

The widespread availability of cable television and of the internet probably tracks just as well with the US obesity epidemic as HFCS does (the former in the last 25 years or so, the latter over the last decade and a half). People given entertainment options that tend to make them more sedentary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. HFCS are quite striking

now here is one book I have been recommending. It was in my readying list but after being reminded I got the Kindle edition yesterday, Kessler's The End of Overeating.

You want to be scared? Due to the way certain elements (fat, sugar and salt) come together in foods that we now have available... we have honest to goodness addictive behavior. The pleasurable stimuli is so high, that it is ALMOST equivalent to Cocaine.

I went... WOW.

The weekend I had to take care of nephews, and due to kitchen issues at my sis's house, we ended up eating out a lot. This morning I woke up with a whale of a headache... it felt like the withdrawal headaches some of my drug addicts reported. I could have never made that connection, until I started readying this book. It may be coincidence, but it is amazing.

If Kessler is even half right, we have a problem... and it explains why many people around the world cannot help but to keep eating. And he is not even blaming the HCSF, but the careful research done by the food industry to keep people coming back to the crap they produce.

;-)

[Spider Jerusalem]

108. HFCS, not so striking at all.

Not when you consider obesity rates in other countries where it's unknown. Obesity isn't a uniquely American problem.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. I am aware, of the rates around the world

Hell I have been fighting this for a while as a health care worker

In Mexico I "predicted it" to the head of the IMSS to the state of Baja, when we started getting the invasion of the fast food joints. I remember telling the director, here is the research, we need to have PSAs.

He blew me, and my head of medical services out of his office. After all what could we volunteers know about this?

Today Mexico is the country with the highest percentage of overweight and obese people in the world... Hey we are no longer number one. We were passed this year...

Their rates of diabetes also put ours to shame. And it is bankrupting a very inefficient health system. (It is a hybrid system, why our hybrid idea scares me, but that is another story and another post)

But insofar as the US is concerned, I believe they are more than a contributing factor, and in time we will see them removed from the food chain. We will have to do a lot of things though and yes our corporate food system will have to be held to account as well.

People hold some responsibility, but so does the industry.

[Spider Jerusalem]

113. So does the government.

The US Department of Agriculture maintains price supports on sugar at about 10¢/lb above world market price as a subsidy to corn farmers. Good luck getting that changed; there's probably not a member of Congress from the Midwestern corn-growing states who'd vote to eliminate the subsidy for political reasons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. Remember tobacco, there was no member of congress

from the tobacco producing states that would vote to regulate Phillip Morris and the rest.

Nobody said it would be easy... but it is possible.

[Fleshdancer]

128. this is discussed in Super Size Me as well

the addictive quality of a lot of fast foods is mind boggling.

[Critters2]

109. Precisely. Not that logic is likely win this argument. But still,

thanks for trying.

[NashVegas]

156. I'm Sure It Does

But we can't talk about it, because someone might lose out on potential profits.

[trotsky]

143. You nailed it.

there are a lot of other factors involved: sedentary lifestyles, lack of exercise, and the sheer ease and availability of high-sugar, high-fat foods.

HFCS is a problem only in that the overuse of ANY sweetener is a problem. Especially when combined with those other factors.

[Political Heretic]

218. Agreed it is not root cause. But its not good at all, and its unnecessary.

I'd rather things be sweetened with natural sugar than HFCS anyway...

[Initech]

111. HFCS should be on the list of banned substances.

[Fleshdancer]

127. HFCS is evil

http://www.naturalnews.com/024466.html

Corn based products such as HFCS have also been shown to increase osteoporosis, tooth decay, anemia, osteoarthritis and more. Researchers found that Native American Indians who lived after the arrival of Europeans had far more of these health issues due to the shift in their diets over to a corn based diet as opposed to those who lived prior who previously ate a traditional hunter/gatherer well-balanced diet, rich in seafood including a variety of plants and animals too.

Corn is also an inadequate source of various nutrients and minerals such as protein, is usually deficient in 3 of the 8 essential amino acids that the human body cannot produce, has significant amount of phytate, a chemical that binds to iron and inhibits iron absorption into the body thus making such people prone to iron deficiency anemia and other health issues related to poor iron status. Corn is also a poor source of calcium and niacin (B3 vitamin). Deficiencies in these minerals including tryptophan can result in a condition called Pellagra which is characterized by a deficiency in those nutrients and is common in corn eating communities as well as dermatitis, diarrhea and depression.

Furthermore, HFCS has no real nutritional value to it at all and is more than twice as sweet as regular sugar and since it causes a huge spike in blood sugar when consumed. If that blood sugar is not immediately used up by the muscles via some kind of exercise it is converted into fat and stored in the body as such. This is another way that HFCS and other grain products can contribute to obesity, heart disease and even Alzheimer's and memory loss. This increase in fat and cholesterol slows the micro circulation of blood through the brain accelerating cell death through lack of oxygen and nutrients. It can also make the body more acidic which causes a host of other health issues. Many health problems in the west are those of an acidic nature or excess fire or yang energy as we would say in Chinese medicine so this is another condition we want to eliminate from the body.

[timo]

133. i agree

and while we are banning things knock out cigarettes and all forms of tobacco too, and alcohol, that shits just nasty and bad for you!!

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yellowcanine]

138. Sigh. Here we go again. HFCS is no worse than cane sugar. It is sugar that is the problem.

Educate people not to drink soft drinks with added sugar. Ban sugared drinks from vending machines in places where children have access - just like cigarette machines are banned.

[boris the spider]

145. HFCS acts differently in the body, but you are right that refined sugar

shouldn't be given a pass in the obesity epidemic. We simply consume waaay too much sugar. End of story.

If people cooked from scratch, they could control what they ate. I am considered low-income and I am able to shop at Whole Paycheck and Trader Joe's because I don't have a car and am lucky to have both stores within walking distance. But don't get it twisted: if you are a healthy adult, walking two or three miles is walking distance.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

158. In the mouth and stomach, sugar breaks down into HFCS.

Well actually fructose and glucose, however HFCS = fructose + glucose. In fact, the sucrose must be broken down before it can enter the bloodstream and contimue on it's journey to provied ATP to power cells.

I just don't see all the fuss once the chemical processes are studied. Maybe I'm missing something.

[yellowcanine]

161. What IS bad about HFCS is that it is cheap and therefore sugary drinks are cheap. But as I noted,

still not as cheap as tap water. So education is the key.

[eppur_se_muova]

172. HFCS is 55% fructose/45% glucose, so the ratio is higher than in sucrose.

Not sure how much of a difference that really makes, but:

"The digestion, absorption, and metabolism of fructose differ from those of glucose. Hepatic metabolism of fructose favors de novo lipogenesis. In addition, unlike glucose, fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion or enhance leptin production. Because insulin and leptin act as key afferent signals in the regulation of food intake and body weight, this suggests that dietary fructose may contribute to increased energy intake and weight gain. Furthermore, calorically sweetened beverages may enhance caloric overconsumption. Thus, the increase in consumption of HFCS has a temporal relation to the epidemic of obesity, and the overconsumption of HFCS in calorically sweetened beverages may play a role in the epidemic of obesity. "
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/short/79/4/537

Probably, cheap sugar, whether from cane or beets, is bad enough, and HFCS is worse.


"In his excellent book, The Sugar Fix, Dr. Richard Johnson talks about the dangers of a diet high in fructose. Fructose raises uric acid, which contributes to: high blood pressure, obesity, inflammation in the arteries, heart disease, stroke and kidney disease. He also explains how when we eat fructose, it doesn't signal the brain that we have had enough. In fact, other research has shown that rats given a sugar water solution (glucose being the sugar) will binge on it but not get fat, as they will reduce the amount of rat chow accordingly. However, give these rats a HFCS sweetened water solution and they will gain weight."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x66302


and then there's this:

"While the FDA had evidence that commercial HFCS was contaminated with mercury four years ago, the agency did not inform consumers, help change industry practice or conduct additional testing."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x66305


Lots more on HFCS in the Health forum.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

179. I'm not sure 5% is significant.

While those effects of Fructose versus Glucose alone are certainly well documented, I'd be inclined to believe 5% more is not unless someone could show that +5% Fructose in HFCS (usually 2nd or 3rd+ on the ingredients list anyways) can really make an impact. I wonder if they ever did that mounse test with sucrose as well. My bet is that the results are the same as the HFCS.

One of the reasons they unbalance the fructose is because it is MUCH sweeter than sugar or glucose, therefore needing less HFCS than sugar. One might imagine needing less saccharides overall would actually be a benefit.

I don't, i just think it's silly that people are literally mobbing up in arms about the whole HFCS thing when the metabolic difference is nearly negligible. Yet the same mob sees nothing wrong with smoking and drinking. IMO, there's nothing wrong with smoking, drinking, HFCS, weed... etc. As long as consumers are educated and have the freedom to make the choices of what they put in their body, this is a non issue.

It seems like the news and politics nowadays are all hysteria driven.
If it's not a "crisis" or "outrageous" it's not newsworthy. Sometimes, I wished I lived on an island commune somewhere.

[eppur_se_muova]

181. "Nothing wrong with smoking or drinking"? I certainly didn't say that.

I'm not sure I've seen others who have, either. There's evidence that a *small* amount of alcohol may be beneficial. Excess is definitely a bad idea. Nicotine? Toxic.

As I said, I'm skeptical how much difference the f/g ratio makes. Still, I remain concerned re. the apparent correlation with increases in obesity.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

183. Nto you, I was vaugue sorry.

I was just commenting on how people here on DU will cry bloody murder when you go for thier smokes... but HFCS? BAN IT!!!!
It's kind of funny.

[Ferret Annica]

147. This stuff is poison

Everyone I have talked into dropping the consumption of this nasty crap have felt better and lost weight. In the America of the Twenty-Worst Century, food more often then not are poisons. Death to Monsanto. Death to the concept of corporaions as individuals. The Supremes were mad to rule that way in the 1800s.

(rant off)

[yellowcanine]

162. Yes, eating less sugar will make you feel better and help you lose weight.

This is a revelation?

[Mnemosyne]

149. Immediately. Thanks! KnR n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

150. HFCS tastes terrible as well as being of dubious worth

Notice they do not sell jugs of it for home use. Because it tastes like garbage. Mexican Coke went back to sugar because people there hated the taste and said so.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

171. I agree with you about taste

and that cane sugar tastes much better, but I'm still not convinced HFCS is inherently any more dangerous than regular sugar. I think it's just cheaper and easier to sneak into other foods (sauces, meats, yogurt, etc.) so, in that sense, it helps fuel obesity.

[L0oniX]

151. Corporate food is all salt, sugar and fat. It's getting hard to find anything that doesn't have HFCS

...and BTW for those of you who are over weight ...you can't get something from nothing ...it's a physics law thing.

[LynneSin]

155. HFCS is crack. And the WORST thing you can give your kids

Seriously, might as well just let those kids smoke crack because it'll have the same affect on them. I've seen a healthy, normal child turn into a demonic, crazed, out-of-control psycho just after consuming products high in HFCS.

[mod mom]

159. BMI Calculator:

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_BMI/english_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.html

Me: 19.5

[steelmania75]

190. I got 21.1

That's in the norm.

[meow2u3]

166. High fructose corn syrup also contributes to, and aggravates, Type 2 diabetes

Blood sugar readings spike after a diabetic eats or drinks something containing HFCS. I know because it has happened to me. If my blood sugar drops too low from too much exercise and a lack of food, I'd have to reach for a candy containing only dextrose, such as Smarties or Swee-tarts.

I no longer drink regular soda because of that, but I can't kick my ketchup habit--and most ketchup contains the offending ingredient, the only exception being Del Monte.

[eppur_se_muova]

170. How about just cancelling the tariffs and subsidies that favor HFCS?

WHAT ?!? Leave it up to the Invisible Hand of the Free Market ?? We can't have that !! Cargill NEEDS its protections!

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

182. No way ANY cogresscritter in any central or midwest state vote for this.

[1monster]

194. I tried to get my son to stop high-fructose corn syrup. I told him to drink milk at school instead

soft drinks. (No, he is not obese; in fact, he's lean, but there is diabetes in my family and I want him to learn to eat sensibly now rather than to have to do so later.)

Turns out that the milk at school was vanilla milk and it had HFCS in it.

Look at the ingredients in almost anything in the sweet line in the grocery store. Cookies, cakes, some crackers, almost all regular (not diet) drinks, including some "fruit" juices. Then look at some of the foods in the not sweet line too.

You wil be amazed at just how many products have HFCS in them.

About the only way to get away from HFCS today is to make your own of everything from scratch.

[Political Heretic]

217. Again, it's in almost all BREAD you can buy - I repost this because it totally surprised me.

.. an example of how hard it is to escape HFCS and why a little regulation of this nothing-but-bad-for-you artificial ingredient might be a good thing.

[rd_kent]

213. Its a start. Next, remove the forks from our mouths!

Overeating is the real problem.

[Quantess]

221. Yes, inflated portion sizes.

A small clue that portion sizes have increased: compare plates, cups, bowls of the 21st century, to plates, cups, bowls from decades past, such as the 1960s. Our dishes have been supersized.

[Political Heretic]

215. Anyone know of any online shopping guides that try to help someone avoid HFCS foods?

They are in almost everything, right down to loaves of bread - bread being one of the places where I find it most difficult to avoid HFCS.

Anyone know of some web resources that provide lists of commonly accessible brands for foods that one can look for in a local grocery that exclude HFCS?

I'm aware of obvious stuff, like sweetened or artificial juices, soda, etc. But its in way, way more stuff than just that.