Ladies, if you knew your dad slept around while married to your mom...

[xultar]

would it impact your relationships with men, whether or not you wanted to get married, and how you viewed yourself?

I found out about my dad's messin around very young, I was in 7th grade. I found a card written by some woman saying how she loved him. I was discussing it with my brother when my mom busted in and took the card from us. We never talked about it after that. But I'm not stupid, I heard my mom and dad arguing about it and her crying etc. Fast forward to college, we still never really talked about it but I knew things were strained. Later, when I graduated college I discussed it with my dad and asked him how would he feel if my husband did that to me, his answer "boys will be boys".

Fast forward to today. I finally told him that I knew all that time. I told him that all the relationships I've seen in my family aunts and uncles grandparents, etc have all sucked because of infidelity. I told him that his actions had some impact on how I view myself, my relationships, and whether or not I want to get married. Not surprisingly he took defense and didn't believe it should have had an impact and said I needed to get over it.

Am I nutz? Should I have let it impact me? Did it not have an impact and I'm just wanting to blame him for shit? I'm equally hard on both my parents. I'm willing to make sure they know when they are both acting like idiots where their relationship is concerned. I think I'm fair, but I will admit my dad makes me angry when he acts like an ass and a lot of it has to do with that anger from when I was a kid.

I'm really mad @ my dad now. Should I be? How would this impact you ladies?

[CatWoman]

1. I had a brother who was born one month before me

(he's dead now).

talk about a kick in the face.........

[xultar]

21. Bet.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

59. My ex has a brother who was born 4 months after him.

[HamdenRice]

96. I spent minutes staring at your post wondering, "how is that biologically possible?"

Then it was "duh"! This thread is about infidelity.

Sometimes I feel really stupid.

[seabeyond]

2. my father waited until he was 60, couldnt get it up, and blame mom

paid a young girl (23) for two years to play around... my mom finds out after over 40 yrs of marriage, cant trust him, cant live by herself and killed herself after christmas celebration, late late into the night

ya

it effected and effects me.

my husband pays for it

personally what did it do to me? there is not a chance in hell i will put up with shit. i would walk, no question, no excuses, no trying to work it out. and as sanfords wife says

not only would i be ok, i would thrive.

to your last question and over ten years later, no i am not mad at my dad. he lives with the guilt daily. mom was a good good woman, and she was good to him. he missed out. we all did. their grandkids miss out. but it isnt my relationship with him. but then he has always been a good father. been there for me. on my side. taught me self respect and expectations. i had always been his little girl.

he was old, feeling it, and just trying to feel like a man, ... he thought he had lost with age

[xultar]

9. My problem is my mom. She can't get over it. I'm trying to get her to get into

counseling so she can quit dwelling on it. She always wants to talk about it and it pisses me off @ both of them, her for reliving it and my dad for doing it in the first place.

I can't not deal with it because of the both of them, apparently my dad is still talking to the woman and my mom won't quit complaining cuz he is still talking to her.

They both act like little children and it pisses me off.

[colinmom71]

32. Your mom isn't acting childishly...

She's acting like someone who has been traumatized by repeated betrayal. Some people who experience marital infidelity, especially where the cheating spouse refuses to give up the affair partner and expects the spouse to just take the proverbial knife to the back as an everyday occurrence, wind up with PTSD. And unfortunately, one coping mechanism to deal with PTSD episodes is hyper-vigilance or repeated experience and "hashing over" the trauma. What might work best would be to gently nudge her towards seeking some counseling for anxiety and trauma, not to mention on how to finally stand up to the one who is acting entirely childishly (and entitled) here - your father.

When you have some spare time, do some reading at MarriageBuilders.com. There are some articles concerning this dynamic of PTSD in the betrayed spouse. Dr. Harley was one of the first psychologists to do specialized work in the area of marital infidelity and over the past 30 years of study and practice, Dr. Harley has had some patients report their spouse's affair (and subsequent behavior throughout the affair) was more traumatic than a previous rape.

Anyway, I just wanted to share and hope you can understand your mom's behavior isn't something she chose or wants. The anxiety of living with someone who treats her with absolute disrespect and horrible disregard has likely made your father's affair a trauma she's having trouble recovering from. Reading at MarriageBuilders helped me understand the dynamics of my own father's behavior when he cheated on my mom. Believe me, there's nothing like being "gaslighted" by your own dad just so the other woman's kids don't have to find out their precious mommy was fucking a married man...

[xultar]

56. I talk to her about counseling every day. I'm gonna take your reading suggestion

and see what I can do to help myself. If she won't get help all I can do is tell her I won't talk about it with her again.

I'm done with it.

[MuseRider]

65. I was going to suggest

MarriageBuilders as well. It is an amazing program that I have seen work wonders. Really, check it out.

[seabeyond]

78. my mom never drank. she started drinking. quit eating. went to therapy and they gave her drugs

totally fucked her up. and yes, she obviously couldnt get beyond it. i had a 2 and newborn. told mom, wait until january, i would get her out of town, set her up where she wanted to live and live with her a month or two, getting settled. no... she couldnt let it go either.

these women though were never independent. she went from parents to hubby. her whole identity. not that way with us. we would say fuck you and move on.

then my dad would come to me and tell me the horrors... well well well, she never lets me .... whatever.

yes, it was maddening as an adult to be stuck between the parents. i am always the go to child in my family. now i am the one that takes care of two brothers, father and my family.

family, isnt it grand, lol. been out of town over two weeks. today... they all came over, one after the other. lol. just got the last out of the house.

i am sorry you are going thru this. it effecting you, pissing you off, being stuck in the middles and pissing you off.... i hear ya

[noamnety]

3. I have two opposing thoughts here.

One is that you aren't in charge of your dad's behavior, and you need to give up the idea that you can control that. It's not your place to discipline him or parent him, any more than it would be your place to do that to any other adult - a neighbor, a coworker.

The other is that it's normal to be influenced by the relationship dynamics you grew up with. I don't think there's much point in beating yourself up over letting it impact you, that's normal. There's what ... a 50-50 change that you'll grow up in a dysfunctional (in some way) household? Maybe higher? So odds are you'd have some questions about relationships and wanting/not wanting to jump into that no matter what family you were born into.

I don't know if that's good or bad, but maybe acceptance that your parents probably weren't bad - just sort of the norm - might help you in some way.

[colinmom71]

24. So sorry, posted in the wrong place! (nt)

[villager]

4. I'm still wondering what affect it will have on my sons when they find out about their mom's affair

As it is, they're just aware she had a "new boyfriend" within the first minutes of blowing apart her marriage to their father...

If they suspect anything, they don't say it. Out loud, anyway.

Though eldest son has never liked her new/recurring (they break up and get back together a lot) boyfriend...

[xultar]

5. For me it was huge. I don't know why. I'm hoping that your boys don't have

the same experience. Kids are different so it will impact them differently. I don't think it impacted by brother at all.

[Raine1967]

6. How could you NOT let it impact you?

My dad was a shit. I chose to not have kids... coincidence? I do not know, but I know watching my parents growing up made a great impact on my life. Life is not just viewed thru a grownups eyes.

What our parents do makes an impact on us. Sadly -- there are parents who do not seem to get that. Your dad, like mine don't seem to be willing to accept that they are responsible for forming their children as much as Mom was. I have a decent relationship with my dad now, but it is only because I know that my anger served no purpose to making him see things the way I wanted him to. Trust me -- I tried to get my point across... I took him to court. got a restraining order and everything.

You are not nutz. I never had kids -- I think it was a result of watching my parents.

A quick question: Your parents stayed together? I think that while your dad was unfaithful, your mom staying might also have something to do with how you see things.

And no I am not blaming anyone in particular. I really am not. Your dad, telling you to get over it is rather dismissive. That would make my patience reach an end. It's not like you are a child anymore.

[xultar]

14. Thank you. Oh my mom plays a huge role in this whole thing. She won't

go see a counselor to help her work through this crap. That is part of the problem. If my dad walks to get the mail she thinks he's sleeping with someone. I've been ripping into her too. They are both dysfunctional to the core.

I have kids, 5 Chihuahuas and no plans on sharing my life with anyone but them. The impact to me has been utter fright at the prospect of starting a relationship. I think I even avoid leaving the house cuz I don't want to slip up and meet someone. Right now I have the most unreachable love anyone can have...Vin Diesel. He's who I want and I won't accept another. (That fixes the relationship thing right there cuz lord knows I'll never even meet his ass.) :rofl:

[Raine1967]

47. ROFL!

I am so hearing you. I will say this, if it helps... don't let the fuck-ups of your parents get in the way of what you want. And -- don't let their dysfunction become yours. That said, I say use it as a learning experience. you are not them.

I won't get all mushy gushy -- but seriously -- not everyone is like our fucked up parents. It took me a long time to get that.

[travelingtypist]

7. You are not nutz.

How much it impacts you is up to you.

My story, my dad was a truck driver. He frequently came home with much less
than his supposed paycheck, robbed he said. Mom always knew it was booze and
hookers or something like that. The whole family was messed up. I got felt
up by my dad and my brother and at least two uncles that I remember (38DD when
I was 14).

I got married when I was 16 to escape. My husband died in an oilfield accident.
I joined the Army at 17, went to Germany for five years, still escaping.

My own relationships with men have been basically the kind that I don't give
anyone a chance to invade my personal space or my life alone. I have a male
friend, but I send him away when I'm done with him.

It took a really long time for me to forgive my mom and dad. My brother never
admitted what happened and other bad stuff happened with him later. I haven't
talked to him in 20 years.

I guess my point is you can't stay angry. Be clear on what happened, why it
happened, how it affected you, and then let it go.

[xultar]

15. Thank you. I had those same issues as a kid but with an extended relative.

I'm over that though. Thank gawd.

I love my dad. I need to work on getting over the anger and moving on. It starts now.

[travelingtypist]

20. That sounds like a solid, sensible plan.

Good luck. :hug:

[ellenfl]

8. yes, we knew at a young age that our father cheated on mom . . .

he took us on dates with his girlfriend! of course, he didn't confess or anything, we just figured it out. i don't know how that affected me but i always had a crappy relationship with my dad and, although i am in a committed relationship now (11 years, longest commitment ever), i have never been married. my so has never been married either but i would not know why. he had a good family dynamic.

my experience in my family of 6 has contributed to my not wanting to have kids, tho', partly because i have never felt i would be a good parent. only one of my siblings had a child. we did not have the best role models and i am sure dad's infidelities (and alcoholism) had a lot to do with that. mom has always been there for each of us (unlike dad) but she has always been emotionally remote, as am i, i'm afraid.

anyone who says that their parents' actions have no effect is in denial. of course, the effect can be much different depending on your age. younger children are more affected, imo, whether they realize it at the time or not.

ellen fl

[xultar]

23. Did your dad know you figured it out?

[ellenfl]

89. i don't know. we never discussed it that i recall. but then,

i never talked about anything personal with my father. i did discuss it with my siblings. now that you mention it, i will have to ask them of they ever said anything to dad.

ellne fl

[salin]

10. Sorry about his callous response to you.

Sadly it indicates that per relationships (even parental ones) it is all about him. He doesn't want the guilt. I would be mad, too. However, he is your dad and if you are going to have a relationship in the future you will have to learn to navigate around his now laid bare flaws (not just the affair (s?), but around this self-centered view of the world.) Are your parents still together? (((Xultar)))

[xultar]

26. Yup still together. It is true that my dad has this 'it's all about me' thing

my mom is finally fed up. This is causing all sorts of crap. Unfortunately my brother isn't here to deal with it either. I need some help.

My dad and I have a good relationship as long as we both ignore stuff, but my mom is always complaining and it prevents me from ignoring stuff.

I got it off my chest today so I think I'm done with it. I'm telling mom I don't want to hear it anymore unless she decides to go to counseling.

[salin]

29. That sounds like a wise approach

in how to pull yourself out of the middle with your Mom - hopefully, if she is finally at the fedup point, she will seek help/support via counseling.

[OKNancy]

11. You can't help how you feel, so if it did have an effect on you

then it did. Same thing happened to me, but I didn't care, didn't effect me at all. I was a little older however.
My parents stayed together until his death 10 years ago.

The way I look at it, it was between them. My Dad still loved me and my sisters. I was sorry for Mom, but I could see how it happened.

I think you are really pissed about other things... but what do I know?

[xultar]

31. I'm mad cuz still afterall these years he's still talking to the woman. Even

after I asked him to stop a few years ago.

That's why I'm pissed.

[Inspired]

12. No but I'd lose a lot of respect for my dad. Which is very sad.

[xultar]

34. I have. I can't tell him that cuz I think it'd hurt him. I think he can figure it out though.

[get the red out]

13. I would have had a very hard time with it

I can see myself doing exactly as you did at the very least. I don't know how a 7th grader has the mental development to not let something impact them. And after it has done a number on you as a kid you have to try to find ways to patch that up inside yourself as an adult. The message he gave you about "boys will be boys" was incredibly misogynist and would greatly impact your ability to trust men IMO.

You didn't do anything wrong, he deserved to be confronted with the harm he did. He probably only thought/pretended he was harming his wife (like that isn't bad enough, but she's grown and can make decisions for herself), but he carelessly harmed his children as well.

The important thing is to take care of yourself; your dad made his bed and it won't hurt him a bit to let him lie in it for a while. If you had kept that all bottled up who knows what impact it could have had on your health?

[calimary]

16. My dad was a serial cheater. Kept company with several other woman.

I guess overall it just made me cynical as hell. And as for damage done to me, hard to say who was more to blame, my dad OR my mom. She was devastated as anyone could understand. Shamed in public, too, because my dad was so shameless - paraded his girlfriend around in other cities where my parents had lots of friends and history together, when my dad was "away on business trips." That just messed my mother up something fierce. Problem was, she then turned around and took out her frustrations and hostilities on me, while dad was gone and later when he moved out. I took the full weight of her fury.

She did NOT hit me. Ever. Let me just make that clear. Sometimes she'd make a stab at it but would miss, maybe deliberately. She never connected. But the words - the never-ending torrents of hateful, hurtful words - who says sticks and stones are the only thing that'll break your bones while words will never hurt? Whoever said that never lived with my mother. She was so angry she lashed out blindly, just wanting to punish SOMEONE, SOMETHING, ANYTHING, for what had been done to her. She wanted someone to pay for it. She wanted someone else to hurt like she did. Unfortunately, I was the only one at home, so I caught the typhoon full-frontal.

In later years it would subside slightly. I guess from an F-5 to an F-2 or something and sometimes down to tropical storm status. Sometimes it was passive-aggressive. Sometimes it was little more than a nasty aside or little dig, but it pretty much continued til her last couple of years - when she finally met a new man after dad died. She finally was happier.

By then, however, the damage had been done. I was left acutely aware of the feeling that you love your parents, but you may not necessarily like them. I guess that's what hurts the most. I've read here and elsewhere and heard it plenty of times, the deep and profound grief people feel when one of their parents dies. The deep bonds, the love, the sacrifice, all that. Sad to say I don't know those feelings. On Mother's Day, my husband wrote on his Facebook page - "Miss you, Mom." My feelings that day - just a shrug and a "meh." THAT is my regret. That I just don't have it for either of them. I don't have those feelings. When they both passed, especially when she did (because she was the last), I felt mainly relief. It meant that all that torment for all those years was finally OVER. Release! I felt like I was finally, finally, finally free.

I wish I felt differently. I wish I missed them, especially her. I wish that I could feel that way about losing my mom or my dad, but it's just not there. If anything, my feelings are more wounded by my mom than by my dad. He didn't leave me. He left her. But he messed her up because he just didn't consider any consequences for his actions, or how it might hurt someone else. It just wasn't in him. And she hated him for it. And I wound up feeling very little for either of them except regret and relief. I wish to God I felt the way others here and elsewhere do about their late parents, instead of, well, just kind of empty and unmoved. I guess emotional scar tissue is like that. I'm sure I'll be working through this, within myself, til I make my own jump to lightspeed.

As far as my own marriage, I married a guy who may not have been a crackerjack business person or a big-ass sports jock or any of that, but somehow I just knew he wasn't the type that would cheat. And I was correct about that. So I DIDN'T "marry my father." I deliberately looked for a potential husband who was NOT like him. Intriguingly enough, my father hated my husband. They didn't get along, they didn't have much in common, and my spouse sure did try. My dad just didn't like him at all. Only started tolerating my husband once he'd sired grandchildren. My husband and I just hit Year 33 together, with no end in sight, happy to tell ya.

[Mandate My Ass]

27. Wow. Sorry to hear that but my story is the same but with a twist.

It was my mom who cheated, very publicly. She thought my dad was her whipping boy so when he finally got fed up and blew town she was devastated and then she became a raging inferno. Since I was "exactly like him" I got the shit beat out of me weekly and the beatings were not nearly as painful as the tirades. My brothers tried somewhat to shield me but couldn't.

The only result of all of this is that I have more trouble bonding with women as friends than men.

It's a really rude wake-up call to find out your parents are as effed up -- or more -- as other people. My sister hates my dad to this day because she was too young to remember the infidelity and shame my mom caused my dad, she just remembers that he left...although he eventually returned and was a great dad as always. She's 40 and although straight she hates and distrusts men to a very unhealthy extent....

:shrug:

[calimary]

38. Hey, what can you do, she said, shrugging again.

The only thing I can say in answer to that is to be grateful for heightened awareness and sensitivity about whatever the emotional wounds are, so you don't hand them down to your own kids.

I was always REALLY aware, always on alert, about that whole transference thing, where you pass your shit on. Never wanted to make my kids suffer for mistakes I made or hurts I still had. I tried VERY VERY hard to mask my feelings in front of my children. I figured if my parents had feet of clay, better to let my kids find that out for themselves and not from me.

Later on, after both my mom and dad had died, I did start to open up. There were LOTS of skeletons in our family closet, mainly over taboos and people's shame. I just always felt so detached. So unconnected. So DISconnected. We have this buzz phrase around our house when discussing stuff like this: "Human Foibles." It's just how people are. It's just what imperfect, infallible, human humans do. Everybody screws up in some way. Just try to understand to some extent and try not to condemn. I eventually got around to discussing it with the kids. There were some secrets my dad finally told me (most of which I already knew - from OTHER people not even family members - gee, THAT was fun :sarcasm: ) that he insisted I never tell my mother. So I kept it all in til she died, and then I shared it with the kids - who by then were older. There were some things they needed to know anyway, biologically and otherwise.

And I hated THAT, too! I could never give a straightforward answer to the simplest questions - like do you have any brothers and sisters. 'Cause I could never be sure (I was adopted and Dad finally confirmed some of the circumstances behind it - which explained more than a few things). I never had a normal conventional family about whom you could freely fill out a form and be done with it. Maybe that's the deep-down source of the detachment I always felt. Probably why, when it finally was time to discuss it, I DID want to tell them everything I knew about everything, so at least they wouldn't be in the dark, and maybe later resent me for keeping things from them. I know that's how I felt toward my own parents, because they kept so much of this from me. Meanwhile, my dad told friends and friends-of-friends - and somehow never figured that it'd somehow get back to me. Never figured that I'd actually know how to add two and two and get four. I resented that a lot.

Oh well. I just have always tried not to repeat the same sins. I'm lucky I was never physically abused. But sometimes, I'd think about how mom treated me when she'd come to a boil and have to take it out on somebody, and I'd find myself thinking - "gee, she might as well have hit me anyway. She did everything else."

[xultar]

42. It's funny what little kids key on. Your sister was abandonment.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom going inferno on you. Women are the worst when it comes to taking the pain out on others.

[xultar]

40. Wow! Great post. Congratulatinos on your 33+ marriage. Sounds like

despite it all you've got a great family. It doesn't make up for it but at least you are happy.

[calimary]

45. Actually, yeah, I am pretty happy, all things considered.

And thank you for the kind words! :hug:

My husband has his own misadventures, family-wise.

Oh well... what can you do? His parents are gone now, too. His mother had really horrendous alcoholism issues early-on, and he bore the brunt of that from her. His dad was emotionally cold for a long time before he finally started getting in touch with his own feelings, and his work kept him at the office late (although he was not the cheating type, either). But my guess is that she resented that a lot, being left alone at home all the time with all those kids and no help.

All you can do, I guess, is just try not to let history repeat itself. Awareness is key. And as little judgmentalism as you can manage. Yeah, they fucked up. They fucked up on you. They very likely didn't know what they were doing in that regard, and HEAVEN FORBID any of 'em would go get counseling or something. Back in their day, in the "perfect" Ozzie and Harriet '50's, that just wasn't done in polite society. And you just never had problems, anyway. :rofl:

You just shrug and move on. Forgive me for a coarse statement here, but what got me through a lot of it, especially later when I knew a lot more and was trying to come to peace with it, I'd tell myself "just do it like the drunks do: one day at a time." So "do it like the drunks do" became a mantra for me. It helps, of course, to remind oneself of one's own multiple imperfections while you're busily trying to figure out how badly you're judging other people. :shrug:

Probably informed my love of writing, too. I'd write a lot about things I was trying to get a handle on. Exploring your feelings by writing about them is quite enjoyable for me.

I did have some really nice validations in the midst of all this - daughter who thanks me (and us) for the way she was brought up, and how lucky she was and is, now that she's away in college and seeing how so many other people struggle. She's a budding psychologist and works with troubled kids and people in prison. And son, who was at the music store the other day, schmoozing with people. The store manager pulls me aside, telling me he was watching our boy and marveling. He's a BRAND NEW dad himself and told me he hoped that when his son is my son's age, that he's just like mine. Talk about being floored! Your kids represent you to the world. So you wanna at least TRY to make sure they turn out as okay as you're somehow able to help them be.

I just hope when I get to the outside of the Pearly Gates I can tell St. Peter honestly that at least I tried.

[MuseRider]

70. Infidelity

is something that is done to a family. I am sorry about your story. It sucks when your childhood is messed up like that.

It rarely, or never, affects just the spouse.

[calimary]

87. VERY true. They don't call it a messy business for nothing!

Yeah, it's an equal opportunity damager. What matters most, I guess, is how you deal with it.

[EFerrari]

17. Trust, abandonment, sure it has an impact.

I forgave my dad decades ago but I never had to live with him or with the daily reminder of how badly he let us all down. And over the years, how I feel about it changes. You realize that people are flawed, that's just how we are. And that knowing that only goes so far to changing how you feel.

The issue eventually becomes an old friend, xultar. Sometimes, it's okay to have that friend around, sometimes, you don't want to answer the phone. lol

[xultar]

46. I need to work on forgiving my dad. I wish my brother were here in GA

to help deal with mom and dad.
That'd help.

[EFerrari]

48. I really hear that because I didn't have any sibs to help me deal with them.

The thing is, married people BOND and in a way, that bond is physical. They really do exchange so much that over the years, they do partly become each other.

I hope you get some help with your mom -- because what she is doing is sort of natural and she'll keep doing it for a long time. :hug: to you and to your family

[nini]

18. Somehow you have to get to the point where you forgive your dad for YOUR sake

Accept the fact he is wrong, flawed etc.. and then decide YOU are in charge of your relationships.

Was he a good dad to you otherwise? If so, you have to separate your relationship with him from the relationship of your parents.

You don't ever have to like what he did - you just have to accept the fact it is what it is and rise above it. This is not easy to do but in my family those of us that did are much better off now than those who did not.

Good luck.

[xultar]

49. I told him today so I think I can let it go. It was time and today was the day.

[demmiblue]

19. You have every right to your feelings.

Feelings really can't be right or wrong... they just are. However, I feel your feelings are justified. I think a young woman who is entering puberty, like you were, may even have a harder time coming to grips with this type of betrayal. I really don't think you had a choice whether you let it impact you or not. It did, and perhaps, to a degree, it always will.

That being said, there does come a time when we need to define ourselves and move beyond our past. As we get older, we begin to see the world differently, and understand that the world is not defined in concrete terms. However, I think the thing that would bother me the most is his unwillingness to acknowledge the pain and insecurity that he instilled. Perhaps if he "manned up," he would see this. I can't imagine your frustration. Clearly, though, you can't control his actions or reactions.

I guess you have to make a choice, carry the weight of his betrayal and flippant attitude, or move beyond it (wherever that takes you). One weighs a lot more than the other! Easier said than done, I can imagine.

Take care xultar,
:hug:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. You have every right to be mad

My father was unfaithful to my mother, and even stole money from my brother to buy his mistress expensive presents. Results? I didn't have a relationship with a fellow or marry until I was 38. I wasn't interested in hanging around little boys who wouldn't make a commitment. I would suggest, however, that you go about mitigating the anger that rages inside you, because I have found via personal experience that it eats away at you and can cause emotional, physical, and spiritual challenges later in life. The way I did it was to forgive him via surrogates--I never saw him after I was 8 or 9 years old.

[undeterred]

25. My father was faithful to my mother for 40 years

and then he died. I guess there could have been infidelity I don't know about, but I'd be really surprised. The fact that he was faithful didn't mean he was a perfect husband and father, but it still means something, especially when I realize how rare it is.

[xultar]

28. Yes, OMG that is rare. I don't think any of my relatives have had faithful

marriages. NONE.

[seabeyond]

86. oh that is sad. i have more people in my family that have had no cheating

in family than other way around. and my father's was really stupid. he knows it. over 40 yrs and no cheating.

[goclark]

30. Hi My Friend

My father was a real character.

He was a great provider but he had his demons.
Women loved him and my Mom looked the other way.
He knew without a doubt that Mom was a great wife and mother.
He really loved my Mom and she loved him but it was a rough situation for her for many years.

I look back on it and with all his issues, he was simply the best dad in the world to me.

Did his action affect Ms. goclark? I would say they did in a positive way.

I look for men that have his good qualities and hope for the best --been pretty lucky so far.

PS/ He died many years ago but my Mom and I talk about him all the time. My Mom and I agree -- he tried to do the right thing and looking back - she said she would have selected him to marry again.

Sometimes the years help the good memories to get stronger and the bad ones to fade a bit.

Blessings for your honesty and may you find peace with the situation.

[xultar]

53. Thank you. Great post.

[InvisibleTouch]

33. I wonder whether marriages suck "because of infidelity," or...

...because of dependency and possessiveness? People don't own each other, and I find it unreasonable to think we can or should only ever love or be attracted to one person at a time. We can have more than one friend at a time, can't we? Having a friendship with a second person takes nothing away from having a friendship with a first. Are we trained to be so dependent upon another person that we feel threatened if they care about someone else also? Aren't we all complete individuals, in and of ourselves, entirely separate from anyone else? My own immediate red flag to jettison a lover, is if he should get clingy and possessive.

But that's a viewpoint I have come to over time, having started out on the traditional viewpoint of horror and outrage on the subject of "infidelity" (because that was my mother's response to her own husband's activities), and then evolving through a series of both bad and good relationships to the realization that I can't stand to be clung to, nor do I care to put in the time and energy to control another person's activities. The most satisfying and lasting relationships, in my own experience, have no strings attached.

I agree with you on the point that every marriage I've ever seen, has turned out to cause more pain and trouble to the people involved, than it ever could be worth, and I don't harbor even the slightest desire to do that to myself. But I think my current outlook was shaped more by my own experiences than by what I witnessed from my parents ... except maybe in the sense of, "Gee, I won't be repeating their mistakes!"

I will reiterate, though, that I don't think it's "infidelity" itself that causes the problem, but that we as a society have unreasonable expectations of possession, control, and ownership of one another - and that women, in particular, are taught to seek our identities and self-worth in another person. What's wrong with seeking our identities in ourselves?

(edit: typo)

[mamaleah]

37. Possession?

If you have not made a vow, contract, or anything else that you will remain faithful to the other, then do as you please. No control.

If however, you stand up in front of your family, friends, deity of choice, or your local JP and pledge fidelity, then you have no argument. You CHOSE to enter a contract that includes fidelity.

People don't own each other, and I find it unreasonable to think we can or should only ever love or be attracted to one person at a time.

Fine. Just let your partner know BEFORE you get involved with them. If they choose to not play along, so be it. If you choose to enter into a relationship that promises fidelity, man/woman up and leave the relationship. Cheating is for cowards.

[InvisibleTouch]

51. I don't advocate lying and sneaking around...

...but I also question the validity of people trying to lock each other into exclusive "forever" contracts. People have life-changing experiences all the time, and we don't know for sure how we will feel next month or next year, let alone "forever." If our society were more open to being, well, open, it would relieve a lot of the hype and trauma. You're correct that people shouldn't make promises they can't keep, but it should be okay, IMO, to know and say in advance that "that's not something I can promise you." And then the other partner, as you say, can take it or leave it, rather than coming up against a rude awakening later.

[mamaleah]

54. I guess I look at it more self-lessly

There are plenty of opportunities to enjoy another person, but why? It's like buying the newest iPhone when you have the one you just bought last year. You do it just because you want to?

No, I cannot say what my future holds, but I made a vow to my husband and I intend to keep it. It's not that hard.

but I also question the validity of people trying to lock each other into exclusive "forever" contracts

Is this because many people aren't too thrilled to hear, "Yeah I love you and want to be monogamous NOW, but in a few years....can't say?"?

[anneboleyn]

81. One can write one's own vows -- nobody is "locked" into a relationship.

When a couple gets married, if they so wish it, they can write their own vows and exclude the fidelity clause. That is what mature adults would do, not lying later after making vows that promised fidelity.

[seabeyond]

84. It's not that hard.

it really isn't. it isn't. hubby doesn't think it is hard either. really... the way people talk and act both hubby and i thought it would be tougher, (not just fidelity), than it is.

but i like reading that in your post.

15 yrs has gone by so quickly for us.

[Sisaruus]

60. You might enjoy Against Love: A Polemic by Laura Kipnis

I found it a very engaging challenge to all those commonly-held expectations about commitment and infidelity,

[xultar]

67. I couldn't disagree with your post more. People know what they are getting

in to when they get married. There is an expectation of faithfulness. If one of the parties thinks they can't keep their drawers on then they shouldn't do it.

Ownership, possession, control... Sounds like words a man would use.

[mamaleah]

69. Yup kinda like

"boys will be boys" and "a mans just got to do what he has to do". All codespeak for: I am mad I cannot get more women or men to sign on to my never commit to anyone program.

[seabeyond]

80. 15 yrs in hubby and i amazed is so easy. both of us like our marriage, enjoy marriage.

i know quite a few others that feel the same way. and i know many that are unhappy in marriage or have divorced. i am saying this to your not knowing ANY good marriage. that makes me wonder

if people decide not to commit to each other, it is a whole other ball game.

[wickerwoman]

35. It's your model for relationships but not your only one.

You have the choice to take a negative example and learn from it by not following it. As an adult, you have the ability to look around for other relationships to model your own on.

My parents have a pretty shitty relationship and what I realized far too late (at about 28) is that it's ultimately not about me and not even really much of my business. I'm extremely angry at my Dad but he doesn't give a shit so the only person that is hurt by it is me.

You have the right to feel however you feel. There's no way that you "should" or "shouldn't" feel about it. But going forward, you also have the power to decide how much you are going to let other peoples' actions which you have no control over define your own life and relationships.

[xultar]

64. Going forward starts today. You are right about that.

[UndertheOcean]

36. What about those whose Mom slept around while married to their dad

would it impact their relationship with women.

Just so the thread does not stay onesided

[pipi_k]

44. I saw this after I posted my reply below

and yep...it had a huge effect.

I relived my mother's life. She was my role model and it took me a long, long time to figure out why I did the things I did.

[EFerrari]

50. I could be wrong but imho, it's not about men or women

for the kid.

It's about your most trusted person, whoever that might be.

[xultar]

63. I think it is the same thing. If my mom had done it I think it would have been

the same. I'm sensitive that way I guess.

[seabeyond]

82. i dont think it matters much on the gender, do you? not

being snarky, but i dont think it matters. and i hear ya on keeping it balanced. both gender cheat equally. wasnt always that way, but females have caught up to men. not just a one sided issue, that is for sure.

[mamaleah]

39. It would certainly have an impact on me if I knew one of my parents were not faithful to the other.

How could it not?

I'd be furious with either of them for risking the health and welfare of the other.

[Rabrrrrrr]

41. "Boys will be boys" - the response of a total asswipe.

We have the ability to control and choose what we do; no one is without the ability.

"Boys will be boys" my ass.

As to affecting you, and whether you should have "let" it affect you - the truth is, things like this DO affect us. There is no way around it. The only thing you can do is admit that it affected you, and from that point then begin changing your behavior. Therapists can help through that, though not necessary.

He is partly true in that you need to "get over it", but not in the arrogant, asswipe sense he means it - your healing will begin when you can let it go, admit that it's there, admit that it can't be undone (no matter how much you wish it never happened) and then start moving beyond it and into healthy life. Much as one does with any trauma, whether abuse, death of a loved one, accident, or personal tragedy (such as infidelity or a business 'friend' who swindles you).

Perfectly natural to have an event like that have a big affect on your life. Most of us never see the damage that is caused until we take time to look back and check our behavior over a period of time and say, "Wow - something's not right here; I wonder what it is?"

Best wishes and good luck to you!

[xultar]

62. I know right! I told him that he said it today. I think it shocked him.

I'm gonna be able to get over it now cuz I told him today. I feel better. MUCH.

[pipi_k]

43. In my house, it was the opposite problem

My mom was the one who slept around. Well, she ended up having an affair with a married man, anyway.

My father suspected she was cheating...they fought...sometimes verbally, sometimes physically, but it was always violent. I thought my father was being paranoid and very wrong and I was angry with him for not trusting her.

Then my trust was betrayed the day her lover's wife came to our house and she and my mom had a brawling catfight right in our kitchen. In front of me and my two sisters. My father was home...I believe he was asleep or something because he was working the night shift. All the brouhaha woke him up and he stopped the fight. I don't remember what happened after that. I was about 13 or 14, and it was more than 40 years ago.

Don't get me wrong...he was not a total innocent...he was an alcoholic with a temper. But he never cheated.

My mother also used to flirt with my boyfriends when I was a teenager. This was after she and my father divorced.

Her flirting and cheating (and ultimate betrayal of my trust) affected me to such an extent that I couldn't trust anyone.

That was a long time ago, and in the subsequent years I learned to forgive them both for what they did. I understand now why my mother cheated because I followed in her footsteps when I got older. Lack of honesty in a relationship often leads to cheating when one person does it to "act out" the anger or frustration s/he feels instead of being able to verbalize it.

Not an excuse...a reason.

As to the question of whether or not you should be angry with your dad, that's not for me to say...but I will say this...his vow was taken with his wife...not you.

You are his child, and you have no idea what your parents' marriage was really like underneath it all.

My advice would be to let it go and accept the fact that your dad was, and is, an imperfect human being who made a big mistake.

[xultar]

61. his vow was taken with his wife...not you...I can appreciate that. I think in some

sense that is what he was trying to tell me today. I still love him nothing has changed that. I guess I just wanted him to not blame mom and think she turned me against him. But in the long run, well go back to ignoring it and I'll forgive and we'll move on.

Thanks for the post. I can't say if I met my dad's mistress I wouldn't want to pop her one in the mouth though, just cuz. :evilgrin:

[JDPriestly]

52. Here are some interesting numbers. Infidelity is very common.

* 22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
* 14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
. . . .
* 70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.
. . . .
* 90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.
* 50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.
. . . .
* 17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
* Source: Associated Press
* Up to 37% of men and 22% of women admit to having affairs. Researchers think the vast majority of the millions of people who visit chat rooms, have multiple "special friends”. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com
. . . .
# About 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an affair at some point in some marriage "Monogamy Myth", Therapist Peggy Vaugn
# About 24 percent of men and 14 percent of women have had sex outside their marriages, according to a Dec. 21, 1998 report in USA Today on a national study by the University of California, San Francisco.
# Affairs affect one of every 2.7 couples, according to counselor Janis Abrahms Spring, author of After the Affair,as reported by the Washington Post on March 30, 1999. Ten percent of extramarital affairs last one day, 10 percent last more than one day but less than a month, 50 percent last more than a month but less than a year, but 40 percent last two or more years. Few extramarital affairs last more than four years.
# A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.

more
http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html

[xultar]

58. "Monogamy Myth" Straight up. Thanks for the numbers and the link.

[southernyankeebelle]

55. UNTIL YOU ARE IN THAT SITUATION YOU REALLY CAN'T JUDGE =

IF YOUR MOTHER WAS IN A POSITION THAT THE CHILDREN WERE VERY YOUNG AND SHE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROFESSION I COULD SEE WHY SHE STAYED WITH YOUR DAD. MANY WOMEN DO FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN. I THINK I WOULD HAVE STAYED AS LONG AS HE WASN'T ABUSING ME. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED HOW MANY WOMEN ARE IN MARRIAGES THAT A SPOUSE CHEATS ON THEM. IT'S SAD YOU FOUND OUT. IT WAS GOOD YOU TOLD YOUR DAD BUT YOU NEED TO FIND SOME WAY TO GET PASS THROUGH THIS OR YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN A TERRIBLE PLACE. DO YOU WANT TO HAVE CHILDREN AND PASS ON YOUR ANGER? I WOULD TRY SOME COUSELLING. YOUR DAD AM AFRAID TO SAY IS A DOG BECAUSE HE DOESN'T SEEM TO ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR HURT. I WOULD HAVE CALLED HIM ON IT. DON'T LET HIM WIN.

[xultar]

57. Oh I'm not judging mom. She needs help though. Seriously.

[anneboleyn]

83. please stop yelling.

[seabeyond]

85. i figured

the poster was old and typed like that so he/she could see... lol. my mother in law types like that and really isnt yelling, though she has been known to yell. lol

[dana_b]

66. you are not crazy at all

now that doesn't mean that you can't give some guy the benefit of the doubt (innocent until proven guilty and all that)but I know how difficult it is to build rusting/loving relationsips when one of your role models wasn't so good at it.

My dad didn't cheat (as far as I know) but he was a cold, abusive jerk. Needless to say I always turn a cold shoulder to guys before they do it to me. No excuses - I know wha the problem is, but it's a hard one to get over.

[xultar]

72. I do the cold shoulder good. I'm also a champ @ walking away.

I don't know how I can fix that. We'll see if I get or allow the chance.

[TankLV]

68. Ir's YOUR choice - you can CHOOSE to "get over it" and lead YOUR OWN LIFE

or choose to remain a VICTIM to what your father did to SOMEONE ELSE years ago.

If you choose to be a victim, you're not being RESPONSIBLE.

It's your choice.

I'd much rather to live my life as best I could, HOW I CHOOSE TO DO IT.

Sorry, but no "aww poor baby" from me.

It's tragic, but you need to get your OWN life and OWN you own life.

and I didn't say it would be EASY, either.

and it IS a shame that you have to deal with this.

and it's a shame that your father did this...

and no, it's not in any way shape or form that "boys will be boys" bullshit either...that's a bullshit concept...

[asjr]

71. It happened a long long time ago, but

the pain still lives with me and my sister. I was 13 when I found out about my Dad having an affair. My baby sister was 3 weeks old. That was when I left childhood behind. This happened in 1945. It impacted my life forever. Only now at age 76 can I come to terms with it. They divorced in 1946 and I had to testify in court on behalf of my mother. I took care of my mother and sister until I married in 1957. And that was a big mistake! Dad died in 1989, Mother in 1994. They are memories now, but 1945 is still with me.

[Blasphemer]

73. These things are complicated

I had a terrible relationship with my mother and my father had a close female friend who had children and he would take us over to spend afternoons with them from time to time. I have no reason to believe that he was unfaithful at that time but because of my strained relationship with my mother, I used to pray that he would leave her and I would get a stepmother. Of course, as an adult I realize that if I had gotten what I thought I wanted then, I would not have grown to appreciate my mother as I now have and most likely, it would not have been a bed of roses living with a stepmother.

I now know that my father has been unfaithful in recent years and my parents are now separated. It's strange to be an adult child of "divorce". I really don't know how much it has impacted me. I have a strong attachment to my father as he is the parent I most closely identified with when growing up so I think I have tended to excuse it more than my siblings (there were a lot of family stressors that I feel contributed to his infidelity). I've never been one who has been a big believer in absolute monogamy so that is another factor. I found myself falling in love with a man who is very much the faithful type, the kind of guy you would never have to worry about in that regard but he didn't feel the same way about me. Instead, I ended up in bad relationships with men who lied about their circumstances (married with kids or living with someone). In addition to my father's infidelity, just about every other woman in my family has been cheated on by their husbands. I do know it is possible to find a faithful man but to find a faithful man who feels the same way about you as you do about him or who is not already attached may not be possible. I think I may have to accept more unconventional long term relationships in order to not be alone for the rest of my life. Maybe I will end up in an open relationship. I don't have much interest in sleeping around myself but if I found someone who had wonderful qualities but couldn't commit to monogamy, I think I could handle that. I think I have moved into a more pragmatic frame of mind/phase of my life.

My young cousin has had to deal with my uncle's infidelity since she was 11 or 12 and she's been forced to take sides. Naturally, she takes her mother's side and considers her father to be a "whore" (although she saves most of her vitriol for the women in question) but to some extent I think she expects all men to be that way. I see her being in a long string of bad relationships given the kind of boys she has been interested in thus far. So, yes, these things do impact us. Seeing our own mother's disrespected or disregarded by men who love, trust and respect is tough all the way around.

[LWolf]

74. That wasn't the most important factor, although it certainly had an influence.

My dad slept with everyone. He got married the first time when he was 16, because he got a girl pregnant. Later, after his first divorce, he impregnated my mother and someone else during the same time period; married my mother, sent the other woman to live with his mother until the birth of the child, at which time she and the child moved on, and were never heard from again.

He and my mom separated when he lost his job and moved in with his mom; she expected it to last until he got a job and an apartment, but someone else was pregnant by then, so they divorced and the new wife went with the job and apartment.

Meanwhile, my mom moved on to have several other dysfunctional relationships with abusive men, until I moved out at 17.

When he died at age 42, he'd had 4 wives, 7 natural and 3 step children, and I barely knew him. It wasn't his inability to practice safe or responsible sex, or to restrict himself to one woman at a time, that affected me.

It was his willingness to leave his kids, myself included, behind; to allow them to grow up without a father.

I think the absence of any male relationships, any male family members, and the presence of the abusive men my mother dated, including one live-in boyfriend for 6 years who didn't handle my puberty well, and tried to handle me, had more influence on my relationships than my father's sex life.

I've been married twice, and both husbands cheated and left; the first left me to raise my 2 sons without help. I took myself off the relationship market after the last divorce, choosing not to risk a 3rd strike. It took me some years to figure out that part of the reason the pattern followed me is because I EXPECTED it to. I have trust issues, lol. Why take them back into the world of relationships?

Still, I like men; I get along with them better than I do most women.

I just keep it platonic.

[xultar]

95. Yup. I've come to realize that platonic is good. Unless it is Vin Diesel

then I can't be responsible for what I do.

[fortyfeetunder]

75. he did cheat, it did affect me

Your feelings are very real. We expect our parents to be models for the behavior they expect us to follow. When one parent commits infidelity, it is confusing to (both sons and daughters) to decide whether their actions are contrary to the morals they are teaching us.

[xultar]

94. For me it's caused huge commitment issues 1. I don't want it to happen

to me like it did to my mom and 2. I'm a little frightened that I'll cheat.

So overall I just decided to not give a rats and stay single. It's worked so far.

[Skittles]

76. I have a half brother born of an affair my dad had

but I wasn't aware of his existence until I was 20 and he was 16 - we've been writing / emailing for 32 years now and I've visited him a few times (he's English)

[xultar]

92. Looks like you gained something good at least. That's kinda cool.

[PSzymeczek]

77. My half-brother on my dad's side

had "sore feet from coming so far so fast", as my parents put it.

[tammywammy]

79. My dad cheated on my mom for years

He left her for another woman when I was 15, my mom took him back about 6 months later, then when I was 17 they divorced. When I was 20 they remarried each other, then divorced each other again 4 or 5 years later.

When he left her when I was 15, I found out. I had a lot of anger issues after she took him back and I was in therapy for a while.

I recognize that my dad is not a perfect man. When they remarried, my dad opened up to me a lot. They were unhappy and he didn't know what to do, and my mom didn't know what to do either. They're a couple that does love and care for each other, but should never ever be married to each other...they're both Scorpios. lol

And I'll say, my mom is not a perfect person either. She has her own set of issues. I think as the years go by (I'm 28) I tend to understand them more.

I love my dad even though he wasn't always a good husband to my mom. He wasn't always a good father, but I recognize more now how he shows me that he loves me. He tries really hard, and I have to say, that when I'm having troubles, he really is always there for me.

edited to add: After my dad left her for another woman, my mom went into a deep depression. She got on some medicine, and then did talk therapy for a few years.

[xultar]

91. I love my dad. He's been a great father, I just feel that I let his actions

screw with how I view myself through a mans eyes.

I don't think I should have but I did. Now I'm going to let both my parents know I'm out of their shit and they need to grow a pair and deal with their own issues. Especially my mom, she needs a huge pair o'balls. I think she's been manipulating me.

[tammywammy]

97. I had that coversation too!

My mom was very unhappy a few years into their second marriage to each other. I pretty much said a few times point blank, "you knew who he was when you married him AGAIN." LOL! She would complain and complain and I told her I was tired of hearing about it, she needed to either divorce him or shut up about it.

[Bucky]

88. How about this?

:hug: <== all I can do is this. I'm a guy and I can't explain the 26% of us who fool around on our spouses.

I can only tell you you're a good person and I know that you don't deserve this kind of hurt.

[xultar]

90. Thanks Bucky. I'm feeling much lighter today!

[goclark]

93. Hope we helped you to feel better

When bad things happen to us it sometimes feels like we are the Lone Ranger.

Blessings, we care,
G