Mourning Icons of an entire generation. Multi tasking DUers. Drop it.

[JanMichael]

I can't believe anyone is asking "why" the celebrity deaths this week are a big deal.

Generations define themselves in part on pop culture. Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson represented the youth of so many members of DU.

If you don't care, then don't post. People are going to be sad.. and cancer and early deaths ARE sad.

Does it matter that there are "more important things" to think about? Yep. So what?

For a moment, let it go. Let people be normal humans. And remember: there are lots of people on DU who CAN multitask: we can be sad about Iran, Iraq, war, famine, murder, greed, health care, AND animal rights, Farrah and Michael.

Get over your righteous selves.

Everyone here knows the shit that going on in the world.

[Kahuna]

1. Thank you. Do they not think that popular culture is an important part of life?

There is more to life than just bitching and moaning all the time. ;)

[anigbrowl]

9. extreme partisans generally don't like art

regardless of whether they lean left or right. there's something about an authoritarian streak that's suspicious of artistic expression.

[Posteritatis]

20. Nah, they just believe they've got the Objective Absolute Trooth(tm) about art

And anything that they're not interested in is automatically something the rest of us shouldn't care about. Of course, that's followed by the equally idiotic idea that, by caring about such things at all, we're obsessing exclusively about them.

The wannabe commissars around here whenever a significant pop-culture news story shows up are a little disturbing.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

66. I don't know about that.....

....they like art that expresses deep social meaning, the sorrow of suffering. But if it's too "mainstream" like "We Are The World", forget it.

[Capt. America]

68. Havent seen Shirley in a while. She is way cool. I could listen to her read the dictionary with her

accent.

[Autonomy]

69. i appreciate the beating on the naysayers

in the several posts above... puritans, commissars, censors, sticks in the mud, wannabe dictators, whatever the stripe... they suck ass.

[anigbrowl]

116. I see your point, but...

my experience is that such people only like art which coincides with their worldview. All else is decried as self-indulgent rubbish (at best). Of course, there is art out there that is self-indulgent rubbish....but you don't have to buy it :)

[Hello_Kitty]

154. And they set themselves up to the be arbiters of what has meaning and what doesn't. eom

[chascarrillo]

90. You're calling Fawcett an artist?

Fuck me, that's funny.

[anigbrowl]

115. Aren't you clever. Well, carry on.

[tavalon]

146. Actually, she was

Charlie's Angels wasn't the only thing she did. She had chops, she just didn't get nearly the opportunities she should have.

[AntiFascist]

155. Actually Farrah was quite a talented sculpter...

but the above posts speculating on how some DUers may appreciate art are ridiculous. Talk about projection.

[shellgame26]

128. you are right about that

my ex husband was a self-proclaimed marxist and never was a person more disdainful of art. Any kind of art.

[ElboRuum]

164. It's not that they don't like art, it just has to have grave philosophical purpose.

Of course, pop culture is the bane of their existence since it must ostensibly subtract from the sum total of woe in the universe.

These are the sorts of people who want to be the arbiters of what is and isn't important, and while they may consider people who take a moment to step back from things of 'monumental import' as obsessed with 'mushy-brained trivialities', the obsession is actually theirs. They refuse to disengage their minds even for a moment from what they think is so goddamned epic. Clearly people of a more eclectic set of interests and who don't feel diverted by diversion must frustrate them to no end.

I really have no time for these sorts. I'm a little irritated with how they come streaming out of every knothole when a celebrity dies.

[AlbertCat]

171. extreme partisans generally don't like art

Art? What art?

Charlie's Angels? Thriller?

:eyes:

OK...they were fun and entertaining....but ART? The words "art" and "genius" are thrown around waaaay too much.

Still, alas! Cancer and heart attacks! What are you gonna do? It's sad.

[girl gone mad]

92. I think some younger people don't understand it, really.

The concept of celebrity has changed pretty dramatically over the last decade due to the fracturing of media and the impossibility of strict image control. Michael Jackson is probably the pinnacle as far as rock/pop stars go. I doubt there will ever be another one with his level of fame. There are simply too many entertainment and information choices available. Even someone as talented as MJ would get lost in the crowd, so to speak.

[lame54]

162. I thought bitching and moaning were popular culture...

most bitching is done strictly for entertainment

[peacebird]

2. thank you.

[hlthe2b]

3. Thank you... Hopefully others can understand or at least be

sensitive to the feelings of others.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coventina]

5. Off to the greatest page you go!

The sanctimonious BS around here when this stuff happens is unbelievable.

Like we're supposed to believe these posters spent their childhood years reading "Das Capital" and arguing Debord with their fellow Cub Scouts.

:eyes:

[Kahuna]

7. ...

:applause:

[a la izquierda]

93. Great post

:thumbsup:

[Uzybone]

6. It's Orwellian, they want you to care about only what they approve

[monmouth]

8. Amen...n/t

[underseasurveyor]

10. K`n`R

[EFerrari]

11. Yes.

[Riley18]

12. Thank you.

[bigwillq]

13. K and R!

:thumbsup:

[babylonsister]

14. Rec'd with thanks. nt

[chill_wind]

15. Agree.

[cascadiance]

16. And don't forget Ed too...

He was also a legend in his own time as well.

Patrick Swayze is still here another day though. Keep your chin up...

[HomerRamone]

42. and Sky Saxon of the Seeds

for us garage rockers...

[PSzymeczek]

57. I remember them.

When did that happen?

[bigbrother05]

126. Yesterday (Thur) morning

Link to his site: http://skysaxon.com/

[Autonomy]

70. Was he pushin too hard?

I love the Seeds. I hadn't heard about this. I have several of their songs faved on my youtube acct.

[90-percent]

121. injecting a zappa quote

Zappa was asked his opinion of Bob Dylan back in the late 60's. His answer: "Like Sky Saxon and the Seeds, except Sky dances better."

-90% Jimmy

[Mythsaje]

167. I hadn't heard about Ed until this morning.

That bums me out too, but I used to watch Johnny all the time.

[CBR]

17. You are right. K&R nt

[BlooInBloo]

18. (shrug) It's what whiners do - look for something to whine about.

[BuelahWitch]

19. Thank you JanMichael. Right on as always!

:hi:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. Right on.

Whether or not one liked these (or any) celebrities, fact is that they WERE celebrities; a lot of people did like them, and their passing is news. I was never a big fan of either, but I am not the least disturbed about the fact that their deaths are getting a lot of attention. (And yes, it is sad that they died relatively young.) Other stuff (Iraq, Afghanistan, health care reform, unemployment, all that stuff we worry about) is still happening; we still know about it; it will still be news in a couple of days when this news is old news. And most of us are entirely capable of paying attention to more than one thing at a time.

Should you wish to deplore the sad state of our celebrity culture and its attention to rich, famous, silly people, feel free. But at least try to consolidate threads, and also please stop kvetching about the deplorable state of our celebrity-obsessed culture. It's not going away any time soon.

[jhrobbins]

134. I was listening to a commentator talking about Michael's lifetime sales of

CDs/albums. The execs get excited when an artist sells 5, 10, 15 million for one CD/album and it is a solid achievement if they sell 50-75 million for lifetime sales.

Michael Jackson sold 750 million CDs/albums in his career!!!!

That's almost 1/6 of the population of the planet.

[marions ghost]

156. good point

I didnt know that...

And they sold $85 million worth of tickets to his upcoming concerts already--this for a 50-year-old's "comeback" appearances!?!

Who can deny the phenomenon that Michael is? (I'd rather think is than was)

People do need icons, they do need artists to enjoy and admire. It gets out of control perhaps but that's not so much the individual artist's problem.

I'm very sad that he won't get to have the triumph of the World Tour, no matter what the cynics say about "he needed the money..."

[Starry Messenger]

22. This thread goes up to 11.

Thank you.

[merh]

23. Wow, what a terrific OP. Thank you

:yourock:

[nini]

24. add to that those of us close to their ages are reminded of our own mortality

we're not kids anymore and crap like this is more likely to happen to us than before.

The shock will wear off and we'll get back to bickering over the usual soon enough.

[JanMichael]

29. Isn't that the truth

when people of "our" generation start dying, well...it does make one take notice.

[Blue_Roses]

60. exactly...

nt

[keepthemhonest]

144. my sentiments exactly NT

[Mythsaje]

168. One of the kids I work with (he's in his early twenties)

made the comment, "he was fifty, after all."

I looked at him and said "I'm a hell of a lot closer to fifty than twenty."

[Batgirl]

25. Most sensible thing I've read so far. nt

[progressoid]

26. Yep -

I'm not much of a fan, but even I had to stop and listen to a little bit of CNN today.

[ellie]

27. Michael Jackson

was the biggest celebrity of the 80s, from 1983 on. Although I wasn't a huge fan of his, I am only six years younger than him and when Thriller came out I was 18, but it is still surreal.

[crispini]

28. K&R

I'll kick that!

[Sydnie]

30. It certainly reminds you of your own mortality and gets you thinking all the more

about your own bucket list ... on so many levels.

[Catherine Vincent]

Thank you for this post!

:kick:

[Duer 157099]

31. A fucking men. Thank you. Multitaskers Unite! n/t

[rhett o rick]

185. I am not a multitasker, can I come too. nm

[Arkana]

32. It's been a shitty week.

We lost Ed McMahon, Farrah Fawcett, and while I'm not shedding any tears for Jacko I'm certainly not going to celebrate his death either.

[Kahuna]

33. My grandson called me to offer his condolences. He was mocking..

my admiration for MJ a couple of days ago...And NOW he's gone... :cry:

[Kaylee]

34. Michael Jackson is my childhood...

From watching the Jackson 5 cartoon when I was 4 y.o., to attempting to learn the dance moves to the Thriller video in elementary school, and wearing a silver glove on my hand to the Victory concert. His BAD video was an event in High School. In short, he was the song of my generation.

[pipi_k]

36. I think he was multi-generational....

I remember his debut on the music scene when I was still in my teens. In fact, I'm 6 years older than he was.

So, in a way, I also grew up with him when he was part of the Jackson 5.

Later, when I had my own kids they grew up with him during the 1980s and I heard the music and I liked it. I think I might also had the hots for him at some point before he started having awful things done to his face...

[Just Saying]

98. Thanks

I was young when Thriller came out, but it had a big impact. He was THE artist when I was a young girl and his death has certainly brought back memories. RIP MJ

[bdamomma]

88. "song of my generation" that applies to me too.

[applejuice]

130. I'm 31 and I remember MJ being such a HUGE figure of the early 80's onward...

I mean, just so big. All over the tv, music videos, radio, on school folders. Everyone trying to moonwalk. Kids wearing red leather jackets and single gloves to school...

What makes me sad is when I see him as a little kid. Seeing him so little and innocent and lovely and then thinking about what a sad life he went on t have (being abused, being shoved into the spotlight with no normalcy etc) and then what it turned him into (his strange life, surgeries, his own alleged abuse of kids...) It is just a sad sad situation any way you look at it.

I often think maybe no one could handle the kind of fame he had thrust upon him and come out unscathed.

[chollybocker]

35. Two American Icons

...in one day.

These two people are a part of the American lexicon and, in a way, represent the collectivity of the American spirit.

Sad news on both fronts.

[Kind of Blue]

37. Thanks for posting this.

I haven't thought about MJ in years. I guess after the child molestation cases and other antics, my mind kind of shutdown to him. So I was very surprised to find myself shaken by the news of his death, perhaps because he and his brothers began to define and expand my love of music. It was that MJ that is really gone and I always hoped he would find again while still alive. So I feel badly, don't want to, but I just can't help it.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. "Get over your righteous selves." ....... AMEN! ...... and K&R

I am personally not very moved by either of today's losses, but there have been many in the past that HAVE affected me.

I COMPLETELY agree with your thoughts in this post and hold in fairly low esteem the sniffing self righteous.

[drmeow]

39. there are lots of people on DU who CAN multitask

Well put! Emotional and intellectual multitasking.

[Number23]

40. "Get over your righteous selves."

Everyone here knows the shit that going on in the world.

Even without these deaths, these are words that I'm believing many, MANY DUers need to heed.

[JerseygirlCT]

41. You're right

And people who'd rather post about other things are still certainly free to do so. So I don't get the whole idea that one thing or another shouldn't be posted...

[ChiciB1]

43. Sanford Really Got LUCKY On This One!!! HIS Story Is TOAST!!

It will be ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Fawcett & Jackson now! Hey, they were GREAT entertainers and they entertained us, my sympathies for their families.... but FOLKS this country has HUGE problems!

This isn't one of them, and I KNOW I sound heartless, I'm NOT... JUST SAYIN'!

[Gman]

47. But as luck would have it

Sanford should have done his press conference 24 hours later.

[Tx4obama]

117. I agree...

A death of a celebrity IS news... but the death of Jackson has been the ONLY news on the TV and that is going overboard.
It is now a distraction from what is IMPORTANT as far as domestic and international priorities.
Sanford got very lucky today that the spotlight was turned off of him.
Iran was not mentioned once all evening on the TV news.
By watching the TV the past 12 hours I have no idea what is going on in the world!!!

[ChiciB1]

129. And UNFORTUNATELY... IMO, The Michael Jackson Is Going To Be

"all that" for today AND the week=end! Cap & Trade today, WHO KNOWS??

I'm very sad about Jackson, but HIS life doesn't actually impact MY life in much of a way! I think he was EXTREMELY talented, a VERY VERY lost soul and personally a VERY VERY lonely person. Much of it "pushed" upon him, but in later years... MUCH he created! And I'm NOT talking about him molesting young boys, I suspect that much of THAT was over-blown, I don't know. But I do think his own family, especially his father were not the finest examples to follow!

But it is what it is... "we the people" have BIGGER issues!!!

[Mike Daniels]

135. Poor you. Want to know what's going on?

Read a paper or search the web.

Options are out there.

[ElboRuum]

165. Can't you just unplug for a day?

I used to go a week at a time without watching the news and was not the worse for wear. Surely you can manage for a day or two.

[Gman]

44. Thank you and gotta K&R this...

The purists insist on having their way. They all should be ignored.

[wolfgangmo]

149. Is it just me...

... or do purists on any subject remind you or extremists of any stripe; be they suicide bombers, Zionists, christo-fascists, or grammar nazi's?

[Gman]

166. The purists are the ones out there the most and

least likely to see it any other way, including our own purists here at DU.

[kenfrequed]

179. Wouldn't advocating...

...the universal ignoring of people that are critical of our obsession with pop culture and our excessive emotional response to people we have never in our lives met in itself be an act of purism?

You must be silent in regards to the continual media worship and hype and noise about this very, very talent celebrity, or you should be ignored for being a dirty, liberal, elitist, latte drinker?

I don't know... the original poster had a point that I do not completely disagree with. But your response to it is underlining my difficulties with the original post.

[Dappleganger]

45. k&r

[Vidar]

46. Well said & recommended.

[FourScore]

48. k/r

[sellitman]

49. Perfectly put.

I thank you.

:fistbump:

[Lorien]

50. He was as human as anyone here. I met him on a number of occasions

he used to visit our animation studio regularly. He would sit for ages and watch us work. He collected drawings and autographs from us (funny that he had mine but I never got his!) and adored the movies we made. I always felt sorry for him; he was incredibly shy and self conscious. He's shake a little when you spoke to him. He was obviously far more comfortable around children and animals than he was around fellow adults. He brought the 13 year old who sued him around to our studio shortly before it hit the papers. MJ introduced him as his cousin, which he clearly was not (the kid was hispanic), and he kept his hands on the boy at all times, which was more than a little odd. I don't know if he was a pedophile or not, but he was a very talented person who seemed terribly sad despite all of his success and wealth. Whenever I hear the phrase "money can't buy happiness" I remember MJ.

[Lancer]

91. Very true.

I understand that Michael Jackson collected tons and tons of animation memorabilia. At one time I know he had a huge collection of rare, original cels.

[Dystopian]

51. Thank you. KandR.

peace~

[Jackeens]

52. K&R

[Irishonly]

53. Thank you

[crappyjazz]

54. I haven't logged in on DU for months

but I had to after reading your post so I could give it a rec :)

I see things haven't changed much here ... still got the keyboard cowyboys attempting to dictate what we're all supposed to believe, feel, think and post about at any given moment.

Kudos and good day to you. :toast:

[NewJeffCT]

55. May they both rest in peace

Thanks for your post.

[Minimus]

56. K & effing R!!!

[Triana]

58. Damn right, darlin'

Someone else crassly commented to me today:

"I don't give a flying fuck about celebrities I don't even know!"

This was after Farrah Fawcett died.

Well f*ck them. I remember watching Charlie's Angels as a teen/young adult and I remember being dazzled by Michael Jackson's singing and dancing (regardless what happened to him/his life after he went freaky) - THOSE PEOPLE WERE PART OF MY LIFE!

And I WILL mourn their premature deaths with respect, sadness and WITHOUT disregard or hatred.

R.I.P beautiful Farrah and Dazzling Michael. It was much too soon.

[Mrs. Overall]

59. Good post.

[2Design]

61. I was thinking of my mother and when icon's from her era died and I did not get it

Now I understand what I did not understand then - These three are biggies: Ed McMahon, Farah Fawcett, Micheal Jackson - interesting times - each of a different era spanning 30 years

[Catchawave]

62. Thanks with a heartfelt K&R n/t

[subcomhd]

63. kick

[CakeGrrl]

64. Good post. k/r

[sandyj999]

65. Thank you! , It's all about the Memories. And we are entitled to that!

[Chorophyll]

67. Another K&R. The way each of us views the world

is made up of so many different elements. Not just politics, but favorite books and movies, music and TV shows. We don't grow up in a vacuum, and we shouldn't live in one as adults.

[reflection]

71. k/r. n/t

[David Zephyr]

72. Thank you for saying what needed to be said. K&R.

:thumbsup:

[ms liberty]

K&R and a big thanks for these bits in particular...

"...there are lots of people on DU who CAN multitask..."

and

"Get over your righteous selves.

Everyone here knows the shit that going on in the world."

[ms liberty]

73. K&R and a big thanks for these bits in particular...

"...there are lots of people on DU who CAN multitask..."

and

"Get over your righteous selves.

Everyone here knows the shit that going on in the world."

[KoKo]

74. I think your post is directed and others and my post....

but...we have to balance. And, our Celebrity Culture has manipulated us for too long.

But, I understand what you say...and for Michael Jackson...we need to do a little mourning...for sure. I did post about him... "May the wind be at his back."

and his Earth Song as his passing....

I felt it like you...even though he wasn't of my generation... and yes...I felt bad about Farah's passing, too.

But...the Celebrity Culture is our undoing... Our mourning for them should be amongst ourselves, here..

Just saying.

[JanMichael]

76. ? There are no modern cultures to speak of that lack

celebrities.

Our undoing is our greed. Enjoying cultural celebrities be they painters, poets, singers, or dancers is not the undoing of society.

Losing our capacity for empathy due to our egos and greed for stuff has been our undoing.

[KoKo]

79. I think what you say is harsh. We are so manipulated by the greedy and Micheal and Farah saw that..

and I don't think either would have wanted the kind of cruel attention to them that was displayed by the MSM that builds everything up to make a profit. Off Farah's old movies and Michael's music. They pump it up to make the money.

But, I understand that you feel that they were worth the froo frah... And, I wouldn't want their deaths to not be reported.

It's hard...I'm torn on this one.


But this is the kind of post that gets the most attention on DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5919412&mesg_id=5919412

[JanMichael]

80. what did I write that was "harsh?"

?

Their celebrity status came from their talent, only later (after the advent of cable TV-- when we needed more channels) did the media go into hyperdrive.

Think about that: they weren't known for anything other than their own talent before our greed for more channels! More stuff! Need more! demanded it.

So, which came first? The chicken or the egg? The greed and thirst for more shit, or cable? ;)

Scary, huh.

[KoKo]

84. yes...it's scary...

The greed and thirst for more shit, or cable...

At least some of us can still ask that question...but what about folks after us who will never know what came before "cable." (Shudder):scared:

[Fedja]

112. Sigh...

Jason, Hercules, Castor, Polux, the 300 Spartans, Rostam, Jamshid...

Every culture has heroes, the only difference is that we have TV and create heroes from people before they die.

[Autonomy]

78. Bullshit

With empathy and compassion for your feelings, I must call your bullshit. We need MORE creativity and talent, not less, and we need to heroize talent and art even MORE, not less... and we need to call out the bullshit, talentless spotlight whores that populate the media these days.

[muryan]

108. Our celebrity culture is no different

than cultures that honored and revered heros throughout human history. Although its true that our celebrities have often done nothing of substance to earn the adoration of our people, but the instinct is there. They see in these people what they want to see, you undoubtedly do the same thing with others.

[varelse]

75. Talk about irony

yours is the only thread on this subject I haven't hidden yet - in fact, I recommended it :P

[TahitiNut]

77. Glad to give this Recommend #100.

:thumbsup:

[texanwitch]

81. Thank you.

I am 55 so I am between the ages of Farrah and Michael.

Good journyes to both of you.

[ColbertWatcher]

82. "Everyone here knows the shit that going on in the world." QFT k+r, n/t

[Redneck Socialist]

83. Thank you

Well said.

[momto3]

85. Thank you.

[tnlefty]

86. And some of even enjoyed Ed McMahon as Carson's sidekick on the

Tonight Show.

[Marr]

87. If you like. I think this place looks silly right now, personally.

The front page is covered with a hundred different threads on a dead pop musician. There's respect and then there's fan frenzy.

[femrap]

89. I loved

Charlie's Angel's....it was the first time women wielded guns. And MJ could dance. It's too bad he missed his childhood.

It was part of american pop history. When I look at Farah's bathing suit poster, I am so amazed at how our culture has declined with implants and porn. She was just a woman wearing a one piece swim suit.

I wish she never had to go thru the pain she had to.

Michael is a different story...he had major problems. None the less, he produced great music.

[kestrel91316]

94. B.I.N.G.O.

[SeattleGirl]

95. Thank you, JanMichael

My feelings exactly. It's like some people think we should have no feelings at all about people who die, except those they specifically approve of.

[J-Lo Biafra]

96. That damned Celebrity-Industrial Complex distracts us from being unreasonbly angry about stuff!

:shakesfistattheheavens:

[NBachers]

109. Best Post of the Day, J-Lo Biafra

and best username

[Myrina]

137. Love your screen name!

:toast:

[Hansel]

97. K & R. Thank you. Very nicely put.

My parents, brothers and I watched the Jackson 5 grow up on the Ed Sullivan show, never missed an episode of Charlies Angels, and every night I listened from my bed to hear Ed McMahon shout "her-r-r-r-r-r-e's Johnnie!" because I knew it would be soon followed by my parent's laughter. It always made me smile. Both of my parents are gone now, but I still have these memories.

These events are sad. But not so much because of the loss of their celebrity and talent as of the passing of youth, family and friends. At least for me.

[donheld]

99. It's been a very sad day

I hope we never get to the place we don't let people grieve for whom ever they need to grieve over.

Rest in Peace Michael & Farrah

[RoccoR5955]

100. People try to put us down,

Just because we get around.
They do look awful cold,
I hope I die before I get old.

It's my generation
My generation baby

Why don't you all fade away
And don't try to dig what we all say
I'm not tryin' to cause a big sensation
I'm just takin' 'bout my generation

It's my generation
My generation baby


Yeah, I know that it's not MJ, but I do believe that these lyrics say something about MY generation.
Now we are starting to fade away, as all of us do.
Such is life.

[RufusTFirefly]

101. Every death in Iraq should trigger an outpouring of grief

After all, every unnatural death is utterly needless.

* crickets *

[CoffeeCat]

102. Thank you...

Both Jackson and Fawcett were important pop icons during impressionable stages of my life.

When I was 10, I wanted to be Farrah. My college years were, in part, defined by Jackson's
music.

I appreciate pointing out that it's ok to have some feelings about all of this.

Anyone who can't understand and respect that--is being incredibly insensitive.

[emilyg]

103. k/r with thanks

[WildEyedLiberal]

104. Concise and dead spot-on

K&R :thumbsup:

[AsahinaKimi]

105. Thank you for this...

I remember seeing some nasty comments on here, about David Carradine.. I have always liked his movies and his acting skills, and was very sad to see him go. For someone to comment, on the day of his death; "Who the hell cares about a washed up actor??".. struck me as being very mean to those of us who appreciated his talent and work.. I didn't say anything but I wanted to. It made me very angry.


I once had the privilege of talking to Michael Jackson on the phone. I worked as a telephone operator and one of our accounts was Neverland Valley Ranch. I was shocked to have actually talked to him, as he hardly ever picked up his own messages, and it was his secretary who usually collected them. This was just before the baby dangling incident in London...

We were always told to be professional with celebrities, but I couldn't believe it. I remember gasping just a little bit, when I realized it was actually him on the phone with me, but I didn't lose my cool. After he got off the phone, I remember being very excited and telling everyone I talked to him.. they told me how lucky it was, as he never, ever picked up his own messages. Its something I will never forget.

[Patchuli]

106. And Sky Saxon of the Seeds...

now I'm really hurting! All of these folks in a way, were icons to me. I'm 54...

[shellgame26]

107. Thank you!

The junior High 'it's cool to be nasty' crowd really need to grow the fuck up!

[Rhiannon12866]

110. K&R. Well said.

I said something similar to this on another thread. A lot of DUers grew up feeling like they "knew" these celebrities, so they are truly mourning them. That doesn't mean that we're forgetting about Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or the myriad problems here at home, but it is a distraction. Real life will still be there tomorrow. :-(

[countmyvote4real]

111. As if we needed another shock to the system... Thank you for that.

peace

[Adsos Letter]

113. "I can't believe anyone is asking "why" the celebrity deaths this week are a big deal."

Indeed; these were some of the icons of my younger days, and their passings a reminder that I have less days ahead of me than I have behind me.

[rvablue]

114. Glad to be the 176th Rec on this. n/t

[Tx4obama]

118. Well .. ya know...

the TV networks are owned by the good ol' boys that have all the money .. and they don't want us to be thinking about Iran, North Korea, Healthcare, oil prices, Wall Street, the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.

So it is obvious why ALL of them have devoted the past 12 hours covering ONLY Michael Jackson.

It is like they have took their finger and pushed the RESET button.

Let's see what they do tomorrow.

[Tx4obama]

119. They are trying to brainwash us !!!

Okay great ... Michael Jackson was an American ICON.
He broke barriers when he got his videos on MTV when MTV was only showing white videos.
He was a great preformer.

BUT why is the media hitting the reset button and not telling us about ANY of the news that this happening?

Nothing on CNN, HLN, FoxNews, MSNBC about Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sanford and his mistress and his illegal trips to Argentina on the taxpayer's dime, Healthcare, The Obama Administration, etc.

Why?

Yes it is very very sad that Michael Jackson passed away --- and it was probably from misusing prescription drugs... but our lives don't have to completely stop because of it !!!

Everyone needs to go get a copy of George Orwells' "1984" and reread the part about the square screen on the wall that via the government tells the people how to think and what to think !!!

I bet if George Orwell were alive today he would be surprised that we Americans have flat screen TVs on our walls doing exactly what he imagined in his mind so long ago.

[dotymed]

148. WHAT REALLY AMAZES ME

Is that Orwell wrote "1984" in the 1930's. He was uncanny, or else he just thought he was writing a fiction that could never happen here in Oceania...

[AntiFascist]

175. Exactly, the real problem is with the teevee media...

at last on DU, and the internet in general, we CAN multitask, but when it comes to traditional news media, the world must come to a complete halt while they go for the ratings.

[Norrin Radd]

120. kr

[Burma Jones]

122. Even if you rejected pop culture.....

yesterday was a big day.......

k&r

[rox63]

123. Thank you for this post!

Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett were pop culture icons of my generation. In the 70's, every teenage boy fantasized about that golden blonde beauty on the poster, and all the girls wanted to be her. Michael Jackson has made people want to get up and sing and dance for most of his life. I remember doing just that to Jackson 5 songs when I was a kid, and to the adult MJ's songs as a young adult. I am 4 years younger than Jackson was, and because of these events, today I feel a bit older and sadder than yesterday.

RIP Farrah and Michael. :(

[Christa]

124. Thank you, thank you

:hug: :pals:

That needed to be said.

[Mad_Dem_X]

125. Thank you! nt

[TomClash]

127. My three favorite phrases/sentences in this post are:

"Mourning Icons of an entire generation"

"Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson represented the youth of so many members of DU."

"Get over your righteous selves."

:think:

[Lindsey]

133. I just can't believe that two of the biggest icons ever died on

the same day:cry: Farrah came from my home town and went to my same high school, but she was 10 years older. My brother was 10 years older too and he had classes with her. Michael was who brought my son (who was around seven at the time)and me together in our music taste and to this day we still like the same music. My son also was so into Michael's break dancing that he became an awesome break dancer himself. He even performed. Yesterday was just a horrible day.

[TomClash]

150. Sometimes my posts are just way too subtle

I really have to learn to be more direct. :smoke:

[meegbear]

131. You go girl!

:thumbsup:

[mwb970]

132. Hopefully wayward DUers will listen and obey.

We are so lucky to have you hear to tell us what to post and say. Thank you so very much.

[Myrina]

136. ... what has always bothered me about this sort of self-immolation ...

... over celebrity deaths, is that the celebs fade into obscurity, or maybe make a "VH1 Behind The Celebrity" docudrama, or maybe make E! headlines going in and out of rehab ... but mostly they're ignored until they die, then the floodgates open about 'oh the loss!' .... how about acknowledging them while they're still alive??

society is so consumed with the flavor of the day, that 'yesterdays stars' are basically has-beens until they're fodder for the 'memorial circuit', then they're just used as a means to eat up air-time covering anything BUT the real issues that are affecting us...

meanwhile, people who have rolled up their sleeves and fought for humanity - or who have been victims of inhumanity - die every day, all over the world, and nobody runs a nonstop-MSNBC-memoria-fest for them ...

/rant

[WinkyDink]

143. MJ was never ignored. And he co-wrote "We Are the World" for charity.

No, hospital nurses the world over are not going to be feature stories on MSNBC.

Fame. It has its perks.

[Myrina]

152. I don't recall specifically mentioning MJ in my comment.

:hi:

[blueamy66]

138. Amen.

[redqueen]

139. Thank you. (nt)

[Kajsa]

140. Thank you, Jan.

Yes, we can care about all the above at the same time.

It's not an anomaly.

K&R.

[Willo]

141. K&R nt

[BonnieJW]

142. It's good to remember him when...

This is a great homage in his best video's. Before he descended into madness, he was an unbelievably talented kid. So good looking and sweet.

Michael Jackson's life in video
A brilliant career, from his 1968 Motown audition at the age of 9 to his epic videos of the 1980s and beyond


http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2009/06/26/michael_jackson/index.html?source=newsletter

[FailureToCommunicate]

145. 'Multi tasking' and 'Multi emotion' Before the aliens kidnapped him, Michael was

an amazing entertainer. The Jackson Five were one of the few "family bands" that were actually listen-able.

My brother sang "I'll Be There" at our wedding...

Condolences to his family, who have seen many ups and downs in his shooting star life.

Thanks for posting what many of us are feeling JanMichael.

Never can say goodbye

"Just look over your shoulder,honey!"

[wolfgangmo]

147. Furthermore

Posts complaining about posts about these deaths reek of an attitude of superiority.

"Look at me. Aren't I so evolved. Not like you."

To those of you who are throwing an apeshit fit about the posts about Farrah or M. Jackson. Get over it. So what if someone doesn't share your opinions, values, or priorities in exactly the same way and proportions? It is something to celebrate rather than rail against. Anyone with that opinion should take a long hard look in mirror and ask if they aren't potential repuglithugs? You are WAY too self involved.

The last time I saw someone sad about someone who died I went over, gave them a hug and then sat with them for an afternoon. I then went home and baked a big meal and took it to their house. This despite the fact that I thought it was a good thing that the person died (she was a nasty, crazy, bad person). But SOMEONE was sad. Either be human and understand or go on with your fascist self.

[Odin2005]

193. There is a pervasive rediculous belief that anything popular must be crappy and worthless.

The snobs base reactively fear art that is both popular and good because it goes against their self-identity as uniquely perceptive people that can know what is "really" good. Calling it "fascist" is not far off the mark because such cultural elitism is inherently authoritarian, hierarchical, and can be used to justify censorship and social engineering of culture.

[undergroundnomore]

151. I do feel very sad

about both of these deaths. I remember watching the Jackson 5 cartoons on TV. Michael is almost exactly one year older than I am and so his death is a nudge about my own mortality. Not that I was clueless before this but that it's hard to believe that he's gone.

As far as Farrah, I was like so many tweens back then. I was thirteen with the Farrah hair cut minus the killer body. Every teenage boy had that poster and I will admit, I was vain enough to want to be pretty like her when I grew up. She was a very talented actress and that is sometimes lost by others who focus only on her beauty and proclaim her to be an airhead.

While there are other pressing issues going on in this world I feel I can still take some moments from my day to mourn the passing of these two people who were the faces of my youth.

[AntiFascist]

153. I don't mind the thoughtful, meaningful posts that do the celebrities justice....

but it's the constant flood of posts trying to stir up controversy that are irritating. When did this become Celebrity Underground?

[PatrynXX]

157. Really hate morons on youtube saying Michael is burning in Hades

Dipshits. Really...? Jesus was first and foremost in protecting the Prostitute. Everyone else was going to stone her to death. I'm not a judge. If those morons wanna look like bush and claim they talk directly to God and God told them Michael is in hell. Well fine. But I'll let them have it first :( Sick sick sick.

Even Farrah isn't without controversy. Hey she looked great in Playboy. (so did Jaid Barrymore) Breaking the age barrier. Even Helen Mirren is hot and she's what 64? Bad stereotype thinking if your over 40, you can't look great.

Probably why Michael Jackson hits too close. He was only 50. All the nice funny people die early :(

Jim Varney died when he was 50. ahem Ernest goes to Camp etc etc and more etc. Ewwwweee heheheheh

[april]

158. This is a part of our lives ..so yes we have something else to think about ..music and art

[OneBlueSky]

159. I just think it's sad that someone with so much talent and such success . . .

was so tormented and so unable to find the kind of happiness that talent and success of that magnitude should bring . . . yeah, I suppose he brought a lot of it on himself, but that's no reason not to have compassion for someone who brought joy to millions yet couldn't find it in his own life . . .

what's equally sad is the chaos that's undoubtedly going to erupt when things like his estate and custody of his kids start playing out . . . everybody and their brother is going to want a piece of whatever assets he may have left -- if there are any unencumbered, that is . . . just sorting out his assets vs. his debts will probably take an army of lawyers and accountants, all of whom will also be taking their pieces . . . gonna be a sad and confusing scene that plays out in the coming months and years . . .

I just hope that Michael finally finds peace now that he's moved on to the next plane -- whatever that may be . . . RIP, MJ . . .

[keith the dem]

160. Thank you, I was never a big fan of either, but....

I am feeling profoundly sad today. The idiots on the right will always be with us, and we must fight on; however we can never reclaim our lost youth. The passing of such icons, reminds us of our lost youth and our own mortality.

[MrsBrady]

161. thank you n/t

[Polly Hennessey]

163. MJ

Perhaps cable TV could add a new channel -- The Mourning Celebrities Channel. Twenty-four hour information about their lives. This should make all the celebrity lovers happy. I'm all for your feeling sadness over a guy who sang and danced or a lady who acted, had a big smile and hair and made 12 million guys happy in the 70's but don't beat us over the head with them. I don't mourn anymore for them than I mourn for Neda. And don't be so ugly to people who don't think the Michael Jacksons and Farrahs of the world deserve endless hours and days of coverage.

[SidneyCarton]

169. While I personally feel nothing much either way about the death of Mr. Jackson or Ms. Fawcett

I respect the fact that others are deeply moved, and need to mourn. It is the height of insensitivity and disrespect to insult people who are in mourning, and it speaks ill of the mocker's own emotional maturity and intellectual seriousness. For some on this board and in the rest of the world, Michael Jackson or Farrah Fawcett, or both defined culture during key parts of their life, a piece of their past has passed on, I am willing to give them time to grieve and adjust, it's a shame others will not.

[pasto76]

170. Word! I used to chase this girl in 2nd grade

she was a michael jackson superfan. Makes me remember being that young.

[Warren DeMontague]

172. You have to understand that clucking, hand-wringing and playing the net nanny IS what many come here

to do.

Personally, I was never a big fan of FF or MJ, and I think Michael Jackson's situation in particular is a tragic example of what lifelong ultra-stardom can do to someone's head... but at the same time I sympathize with anyone who has lost anyone they care about-- even if that person is only a musician whose music was influential.

Jerry Garcia's death hit me pretty hard, if I remember correctly.

[JanMichael]

180. Oh, we are both in our forties, and FF was a childhood icon; MJ

was both childhood and young adult icon--

I just get weary of people chiding other DUers for being saddened about deaths such as these, or animal abuses-- whatever is deemed "not as important." Sometimes it's as if some DUers have a certain amount of sympathy or empathy to pass out for certain causes, and beyond that-- emotions are ridiculed as "frivolous."

[BrklynLiberal]

173. I stood up at my computer and applauded your post.. Thank you.

Well said, and well felt. I agree with all you said. Any reminder of our mortality is bound to affect us


:yourock: :fistbump: :pals: :hug: :loveya: :hi: :thumbsup: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

We should all remember John Donne's Meditation XVII

"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

see here for full meditation...
http://www.online-literature.com/donne/409/

[Better Believe It]

174. K & R

Thank you.

You're absolutely right.

[Khaotic]

176. Indeed

It's not really the fact that Micheal Jackson and Farrah Fawcett died, as much as it is facing mortality.

Life has a way of getting us so caught up that we lose track of time itself.

Indeed, for a lot of us 1980 wasn't that long ago. We talk about that time because it tend to try and forget the bad stuff that was going on, and remember the good stuff.

Our minds are filled w/ those kinds of memories and time passes by.

Now it's freakin' 2-0-0-9!!!!!!!!!!

WTF?!!!

Michael Jackson isn't a kid, it wasn't yesterday that his album became the best selling album of all time, and it has been a number of decades since Farrah's unbelievable smile adorn your bedroom wall.

Now, both of them are dead.

Plain and simple, we don't like to think about it, and reality is a mofo!

Jackson's tour site has nothing about his death yet. It is a reminder of how great (even for the haters out there) it would have been to see him make a comeback. Maybe he wouldn't have become 'normal' in a lot of people's eyes, but he would have put on one hell of a show.

People talk about the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, and the 90s, but a lot of us are still coming to grips w/ the fact that we're in the 00s!

I don't feel freakin' 40 and I'm not getting used to the fact that I could definately be over the halfway mark.

After reality hits you in the face and you hear the stories about war, about cheating spouses, etc., etc. In your moment of clarity you realize that we all have one ticket.

You don't get to finish the ride and frolic back to get back in line and ride again. After it's over, it's over.

Having that clarity doesn't give anyone any answers, but it can or should make a person realize that there really is something to the old golden rule, whether you bow to a deity or not ... while we're here we should be making the best of it.

Indeed, both Farrah Fawcett and Micheal Jackson were part of the fabric of our lives and I think it's healthy and maybe even mandatory to go through this time of reflection to find those little moments of clarity in our lives to the rest of our lives can be a little bit better.

Both of their contributions and achievements had major ripples that put them on the radar enough to be part of life's backdrop, regardless of what you thought of them.

So here's to both Farrah Fawcett and Micheal Jackson ... cheers! May their passing bring a pause to us all and just possibly much more than a smile to our faces.

The graphic below is from Jackson's tour site:

[puebloknot]

177. Well said! In a similar vein, some of us were reminiscing about JFK's death ...

... a year or two ago, here at DU, recalling where we were, how old we were, how it affected us.

And along came "Sal," mean-talking Sal,to point out that our maudlin worship of a flawed man was ... well, maudlin!

It was none of that. It was a mutual recollecting of an event that has shaped all our lives, and had a major impact on the future of our country. But that day, here, it wasn't that intense or philosophical. It was just ... Remember?

[GeorgeGist]

178. I empathize with those who are saddened by ...

tragic lives or tragic deaths. But have no sympathy for the nonsense that Farrah and Michael's deaths or lives are more tragic because they were pop culture icons. Beat It.

[ShortnFiery]

181. Without any self-righteousness, I worry about people who "grieve" over celebrities whom

they have not ever met or share any significant portion of their life with.

Gee, I felt embarrassed that I required two months to even look at another puppy dog without tears after my beloved girl of 15 1/2 years died in early April. However, in my view, someone or some creature who is a part of your everyday life, is something that GRIEVING is understandable.

Celebrity death is tragic. Michael Jackson was MY age and this even forces me to reflect. However, the only death this year whom I've GRIEVED over with a river of tears is my beloved girl, Miss Taro. :shrug:

[JanMichael]

182. Your doggie was gorgeous; I am so sorry she died. That said

I am also sorry that you can't allow any outside influences of the culture that you live in, or grew up with to affect you enough to feel anything other than a remote sadness. Michael Jackson's songs were a part of my life; I did share something with him. He shared his talent with the society that I grew up in-- as well as the rest of the world.

You aren't an island---

[ShortnFiery]

184. Perhaps since I was into hard rock and metal at the time and have not ever ...

purchased any music approaching to MJ, I am less than empathetic.

To be honest, I felt more loss at the death of Elvis when I was a young girl of 19 y.o.

As I've aged (now 50), my value of "celebrity" has faded to almost nothing.

Sorry, I know that the folks who wish to obsess on celebrity far outweigh those of us who don't value their lives as as any more significant as that our next door neighbors, but THIS OBSESSION, IMO, don't make it something to be proud of ...

Guess I'll finish my newly cracked Dean Koontz novel and keep the "Idiot Box" off this weekend.

People will continue to ADORE celebrity above the aquaintences we should cherish in everyday life ... and that fact is, IMO, the real tragedy. :shrug:

p.s. Sincere "thanks" for your kind comments regarding my doggie. :hi:

[JanMichael]

186. We are "doggie folks" ;)

well, and kitty folk, and any other furry or finned creatures that live with us!

I cried my eyes out when Elvis died. I still miss him.

wanna see a neat video that kind of sums up my post to you? (and yes, he's in there)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmxT21uFRwM

[ShortnFiery]

188. Awe, thanks.

I may not be wired like you (didn't cry on Elvis's death), but it's clear to me that both sides contain compassionate and thoughtful people.

You'll receive no more "Pooh pooh" posts from me as I now recall that my mother still adores the memory of JackieO ... oh and less laudatory, she loves Babs Bush too. :blush: (that's another story for another time)

To each his or her own ... I now say.

Thanks for helping me to understand another's perspective. :-) :hi:

[sunnybrook]

183. THANK YOU!

That needed to be said... I am so sick of people trying to tell me what is the correct way to feel about Micheal Jackson. What gives them the right?

[JanMichael]

187. NEVER let anyone tell you how to feel about anything or any

person. Ever. Your emotions are your humanity. It's a gift.

[BeyondThePale]

189. yawn...

[JanMichael]

190. Thanks for the kick

and no thanks for the total disregard of human emotion! Awesome!

[BeyondThePale]

191. it was nothing...

and I mean that with all my heart!

[Odin2005]

192. I hate ideologues who think that we can't enjoy ourselves until the world is perfect.

Especially since if those ideologues got what they wanted we would live in a totalitarian hell where there is no fun.