What would you consider a fair Living Wage for your area?

[rucky]

Living Wage = Income to support a family of 4 with the basics: Mortgage/Rent, Insurance, Utilities, Food, Transportation, and a little bit left each month.

I'm in Ohio. Median household income is $46,000. Federal poverty level is $22K for a family of four (AK & HI are different). I say a living wage starts around 36K.

for some stats in your area: http://factfinder.census.gov

[Touchdown]

1. In Denver, about $55,000

Not cheap here, but not Boulder. In Boulder, jack that up by another $20,000.

[bunnies]

2. Coastal NH - about 50 grand.

And you might be scraping...

[Burma Jones]

3. The median family income for my county (Montgomery, MD) is $106,093

I would say a family of four would need about $50K a year to squeak by. Fortunately, the unemployment rate here is about 4% and there are many many opportunities to do free stuff.

The county has had housing assistance in place for decades. From Wikipedia:

Since the 1970s, the county has had in place a Moderately Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) zoning plan that requires developers to include affordable housing in any new residential developments that they construct in the county. The goal is to create socioeconomically mixed neighborhoods and schools so the rich and poor are not isolated in separate parts of the county. Developers who provide for more than the minimum amount of MPDUs are rewarded with permission to increase the density of their developments, which allows them to build more housing and generate more revenue. Montgomery County was one of the first counties in the U.S. to adopt such a plan, but many other areas have since followed suit.

This has worked pretty well, the County enjoys the smallest test gap between Whites/Asians and African Americans/Hispanics for any large Jurisdiction in the US.

[imdjh]

6. Go to realtor dot com, you'll be surprised

I was there the other day looking at Gaithersburg and prices started lower than I have seen them in 20 years.

[imdjh]

4. $8.48/hr times 2 incomes 40 hours

800 rent
250 car
360 grocery
150 electric
60 water
80 cable
50 phone
60 gasoline
1200 everything else

this assumes employer paid health insurance

[bunnies]

8. $800 rent? $80 cable?!

Wow. We're getting gauged up here!! $800 rent will get you a nice studio apt. if your lucky. Never mind those $300 heat bills in the winter. :nuke:

[imdjh]

11. that will get you a clean 2br duplex in a decent neighborhood

It's also the mortgage payment on a $80K house, which right now means a serviceable house in an iffy neighborhood or a crappy house in an OK neighborhood. By my standards. Mind you, I wouldn't want to send my kids to the public schools these places are zoned for- and I wouldn't want to send my kid to a public school my house is zoned for.

$80/mo is my current cable bill for basic plus tier #1 (lifetime, comedy, NG, no showtime or HBO) and Roadrunner

[dmallind]

16. That's a really high mtg payment for that amount

I know PITI varies and all that but the base 30yr conforming loan payment for 80K at the average rate right now of 5% is $429. If you had no down payment (and could still get a mortgage at that) add $50 for PMI.

So you'd have to be paying $320/mo for property taxes and insurance to total $800/mo.

My insurance on a much bigger house is $80/mo, so even if that stays static, the property taxes would have to be $240/mo or $2880 a year on a $80K house. That's way higher than even my rates in NYS.

Admittedly all that depends on being able to find an $80K house. Piece of cake around Buffalo - some of em are even quite decent all told at that price point - but tricky in many other places.

If you can though, your total payment should be way less than $800/mo - maybe $580-600. Even here with very high property taxes total PITI usually comes out to be about $700-750 per $100K mortgaged.

[imdjh]

30. Homeowners is $2000 and taxes are $630 pmi is $28/mo so you might be right

[dmallind]

39. That's high insurance too. Wonder why. High crime neighborhood? NT

l;j

[imdjh]

43. Hurricanes and tornadoes

[bunnies]

20. wow. We pay $130 for internet and basic digital cable.

And $1300 for a 3 br apt in a 350 year old house. And you dont have to deal with snow!! not fair.

[imdjh]

31. Let me guess - Comcast? Notorious rip off artists.

[Cleita]

5. Twenty dollars an hours would about cut it.

That would be $160 a day or $800 a week. It will pay rent in this area and the basics including an economy car. I guess it amounts to $41,600 a year, which in this area is barely enough to get by on, yet the average wage here is about $8 an hour because it's an agricultural and tourist area employs mostly for only service jobs which are low paying.

[guitar man]

7. about $20 an hour

I'm at around $17 so I still have to hustle some work on the side to try and keep up :(

[stopbush]

9. Around $100,000 here in OC, CA.

Mostly because housing is expensive. A 3-bdrm, single-family home rents for $2500-3000 a month.

[Johonny]

25. I agree

[imdjh]

32. 3br2ba SFH at 405 n laurel st, santa ana, $115,000

2 br 1 ba, 810 s cornwall, anaheim, $115,900

[stopbush]

36. Average price for a SFD in CA is $400,000.

So, you've cited a few property addresses that are cheap. Any idea where those properties are, what shape they're in and what the square footage is? They could be bombed out shells of buildings at that price.

[imdjh]

42. Go to realtor dot com and check it out

You know the area better than I do- since I have been outside West Hollywood area all of once.

There 190 homes on the market for $300K-$400K in Santa Ana. (single family detached)

There are 294 homes on the market for $200K - $300K in Santa Ana. (single family detached)

There are 85 less than $200K in Santa Ana. (single family detached)

The point is that we're talking about a living wage.

[stopbush]

44. It's the difference between a living wage and a "just getting by wage."

BTW - Santa Ana ain't Newport Beach, ya know. In fact, Newport Beach ain't Newport Beach down around Balboa Village.

My point is that homes in Santa Ana are most likely in run down areas of the city.

[imdjh]

45. The OP defined "living wage" for the purpose of the discussion. A beach address is a luxury

In most places that is. There are some real shitholes in Long Beach, and some other beach communities in the nation. But as a rule, "Beach" in your address denotes something other than being at the "living wage" level.

There are 33 dwellings with 2 br for sale with a Newport Beach address for less than $400K. The cheapest single family detached is $315K.

You can get a mobile home with a Newport Beach address starting at $145K. The lot rent is $1360 so that's a pretty price mobile home- I really don't know why someone would pay that much for a mobile on leased land when the lot rent adds up to consider buying power in a fee simple property.

[stopbush]

46. There are some very questionable property arrangements around here.

There's a home for sale in Laguna Beach right now with an ocean view for only $170,000. Problem is, the home is built on leased property! Not a problem if that lease has 90 years to run, but quite a problem if it has a year or two left. Unless you're able to move the house to land you own, there's no reason to buy such a "bargain." I've also seen 2-bdr SFHs in Newport Beach that are only 1200 sq ft. Those bedrooms are very small, the living quarters are cramped and the front door is set back 2 inches from the sidewalk. Affordable, yes. Livable? Not for me.

Prices quoted in a vacuum are meaningless.

Living wage is a different number depending on where you live. That's pretty obvious as well.

As far as what the OP considers "basics" - that varies quite a bit as well. Many homes on the peninsula in Newport Beach come with only one parking space. If your family has more than one car, you have to pay extra for a parking garage. Not exactly an expense one encounters in rural Ohio. And transportation (ie: extra cars) are basic items if one has a job and needs to get to work.

[taught_me_patience]

10. Why should living wage support a family of four?

We are in the age of two income households.

[imdjh]

12. my model is two incomes

[rucky]

15. Because unless we've dropped our standards...

it is still expected that a family can be supported off a single income.

If that is not the case, then we've moved backwards - not forwards.

[taught_me_patience]

24. That's not the case anymore.

Two incomes are the norm and there is no going back.

[rucky]

28. Consider it a household wage, then.

which is what I mentioned as a point of reference in the OP.

But you should also add child-care expenses and another car to that family of 4 - I think it would almost cancel itself out.

[taught_me_patience]

34. $25/hr in Los Angeles

12/hr per person.

[stopbush]

26. I have a family of four.

I make a little over $100k a year. My wife works part time and makes about $15k a year. She works for one reason only - to help pay for the health insurance for her and the kids.

[RandomThoughts]

13. Hard to put it into monetary amounts.

But a wage were a person does not worry about

Basic housing
Food
Health care
Children Education and Care
Access to basic culture and arts.

Then the desires for more leisure time activities, or better material things can continue to give people the motive to work.

It should be noted, the argument the Republicans don't make, but one of the real argument for capitalism is

'if you don't have some people starve or freeze in the cold without shelter, you wont motivate everyone else to work hard'.

People fearing suffering is part of the motivator in that system.

[Uben]

14. About 400K/yr

Cuz we livin large! Ha!11 Series!

Around here you can live on $10/hr. Not well, mind you, but you can get an small apartment and drive a shitty car.

[imdjh]

33. When I was 22 a small apartment and a shitty car was cool

I shared a 1 BR when I first started out. It was like laverne and shirley, except that we didn't actually share the bedroom. I slept in the living room. I loved that apartment. Then we got a monster apartment, and people started moving in with us, it became a commune, except it wasn't cool like some old hippy movie, it was a little frantic. Then I moved back to the suburbs, because I was tired of being too hip to have a swimming pool, central heat and air conditioning, dishwasher, etc...

A friend once told me I was "hopelessly middle class".

[madokie]

17. somewhere around 30 bucks an hour

[SmileyRose]

18. it TOTALLY depends on the bennies involved.

if there is no disability income insurance, medical insurance, paid sick days, pension/matching 401K funds then the living wage has to be higher to compensate.

[rucky]

19. True Dat...

Let's assume we have to go out-of-pocket for healthcare, since most folks do have to.

[Still Sensible]

21. I'm in Oklahoma and I suspect your Ohio number is too low

for a family of four. Oklahoma is one of the cheapest places to live in the country--perhaps not all that different in costs from Ohio--and I'd put the number here closer to $50,000. My daughter and son-in-law, just the two of them, struggle in the mid 40s. Admittedly, they could probably do a little better with what they make, but after federal and state taxes, and a sales tax rate over 8% on non-food, they are just scraping by. If they had a couple kids it would be very hard for them to make it.

[rucky]

29. I'm beginning to think you're right.

And if you are, our median income is pretty darn close to where our TRUE poverty level is at.

[Spike89]

22. around $50,000 but it's a false standard

A $50,000 annual salary would provide the basics to support a family of 4 in my area. However, unless the benefits include a solid medical and life plan, there is no security. In fact, even here in Eugene, OR with a fairly decent social services network, that $50,000 for a family would not provide security from layoffs--that family would lose their home and other possessions before unemployment benefits ran out.

A living wage is really meaningless unless there are strong social safety nets under them. To really be secure in a $50K area like here, you'd need about double that and be able to maintain that for a few years. If you can't survive for 18-24 months without a job, you are not financially secure in my opinion.

[ThomWV]

23. I think a family could live comfortably but with no extravagance for about $45 K here

[Hekate]

27. $15/hour aka $31,200/year should be minimum wage for our area according to a study...

It's doubtful if you could support more than one person on that in this location.

Minimum wage requirements vary by region, obviously, but wages overall don't necessarily rise with the cost of living in a given area.

Hekate

[Jimbo S]

35. I think the whole Living Wage concept is a fallacy

Family of four? Who came up with that arbitray number?

How I see it, it should be a wage to support one person. If you want kids, find a job where you earn more without a government mandated minimum.

Cable and internet are luxuries, not necessities of life.

[TahitiNut]

37. $32,000/yr ... $16/hour

:shrug:

[SOS]

38. In NYC, $25 an hour+

On a 35 hour week it comes to $875 before tax.
$3,500 a month less tax = $2,450.

Barely enough.

[kctim]

40. $11 an hour

Suits the four of us just fine.

[Initech]

41. In LA, $18 / hour

Yeah pretty steep but rent is fucking outrageous. I've seen some places that charge up to $1300/month for a one bedroom studio. :yoiks: