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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:22 PM
Original message
Moses was high on drugs: Israeli researcher
14 May 2009

JERUSALEM - High on Mount Sinai, Moses was on psychedelic drugs when he heard God deliver the Ten Commandments, an Israeli researcher claimed in a study published this week.

Such mind-altering substances formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times, Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy.

“As far Moses on Mount Sinai is concerned, it was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don’t believe, or a legend, which I don’t believe either, or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics,” Shanon told Israeli public radio on Tuesday.

Moses was probably also on drugs when he saw the “burning bush,” suggested Shanon, who said he himself has dabbled with such substances. “The Bible says people see sounds, and that is a classic phenomenon,” he said citing the example of religious ceremonies in the Amazon in which drugs are used that induce people to “see music.”

He mentioned his own experience when he used ayahuasca, a powerful psychotropic plant, during a religious ceremony in Brazil’s Amazon forest in 1991. “I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations,” Shanon said. He said the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca were comparable to those produced by concoctions based on bark of the acacia tree, that is frequently mentioned in the Bible. - Sapa-AFP.

From: http://www.nehandaradio.com/zimbabwe/church/moses-high140509.html
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. I want some of that...
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. given that creosote bushes can burn just because of what they
are, there can be a different explanation for the burning bush.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't know why, but that headline is hilarious.
:rofl:
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. DUCK!
:hide:





:rofl:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Doors of Perception open in many ways.........
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Psychedelic drugs?
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Were'nt there brain wave experiments done with LSD and meditation experts?
And both of them produced "religious ecstasy" experiences of the same type?

From the "prophets" to "oracles" and even Moses, I'm dead cert that there was drugs involved in their religious experiences. The link between getting high and having a religious experience is just too well documented to dismiss. Hell, even ancient cultures like our own Native American population used drugs (still use) to gain "mystical insights".
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. So a lot of jewish history is based on a guy on dope?
:)
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. I wonder why he finds it difficult to believe that Moses was a myth,
Edited on Wed May-13-09 09:36 PM by Marr
but easy to believe that these stories are accurate accounts of one man's drug-induced hallucinations that happened thousands of years ago? The "myth" angle seems more likely to me.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
42. Right and I am sure it was the drugs that let him live to be hundreds of years old.
:shrug: Amazing just how much people will believe if they are told to have faith.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. how can he possibly know?
This is research the same way this guy on history channel is using remote sensing to do research on detect aliens underwater.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. So Moses was, to use the clinical term, "tripping balls"?
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Have you read the 'Revelation to John'?
I mean, holy shit man... that boy did some stuff while he was in India, and by 'stuff' we mean 'tripping balls'.

And Diadems.

And multi-headed monsters.

And interpretations of Armies as Angels with their feet on land and sea.

Oh... and there was seeing nations as whores... whatta shock.


... Hmmm.... maybe there is something to this 'tripping balls' stuff after all... :smoke:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yep drugs were common, but I hate to point this out
Moses... who's moses? Serious... modern archeology tells us that Moses is the creation of the 7th century King Josiah and the gang, 7 BCE before anybody screams too loudly.

Oh and let me get my asbestos suit
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. there is also absolutely nothing to indicate that jewish slaves built any pyramids...
and the egyptians were pretty meticulous record-keepers.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Well Haviru might have been corvee labor
but that is as close as we get to slavery... oh wait, it is not

:-)

Yep that blew my brother's reality at passover dinner... he pushed his religion on me, I pushed archeology and science on him

Hell the word abadim, does not translate to slaves, but to labor
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. ... just testing;
Edited on Wed May-13-09 11:44 PM by The Doctor.



Ha! Expecting a flamethrower?!? (didn't have one)

Oh No... now if you'd like to join me...

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Holy shites... RUN HE HAS A FLAME THROWER!!!!!!!!!
:-)

Back at you

:hi:
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chollybocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. I can "see music," too, when I burn some bush.
;)

Moses also had a foot fetish.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have been saying this for years. Many of the world's religions
openly admit to using some kind of "help" with their spiritual/religious rites. This sure would put a knot in their knickers wouldn't it.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. they're called entheogens for a reason...
Edited on Wed May-13-09 10:02 PM by eShirl
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Traveling_Home Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Jesus was a Mushroom....
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. Read "The Road to Eleusis:" by Watson et al.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. no wonder it took him 40 days to carve those tablets...
and come up with the back-story.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. I KNEW it!
That old man was a tweaker. Now we have documented PROOF!

"Just say NO" was anti-biblical!
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. So, Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar were documentary films?
Damn hippys.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Shrooms!
Actually, there is a theory that 'Manna' was actually mushrooms. The description kinda fits.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. religion, not scrambled eggs, best represents your mind on drugs.
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Badgerman Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. An Axiom for the Ages! love it. n/t
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. Ergot poisoning was common back in the day.
"And lo, the Israelites flew kites in the desert, and the Lord saw it, and it was good."
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Awww man - so cause Moses couldn't find a competent trip sitter - we end up with Christianity?
I kid I kid.. :P :P :P
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Researcher: Moses was tripping at Mount Sinai (Wed., March 05, 2008)
... Shanon presents a provocative theory in an article published this week in the philosophy journal Time and Mind ... http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/960407.html

Note to self: nehandaradio may not be the best source for breaking news -- and when they say "this week" it's not really clear what week that is
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Wow, didn't realize that
Note taken about nehandaradio. Thank goodness I didn't post it in LBN, lol.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. It's surprising how many "news" sources publish stories that are weeks or months old:
in this case, I only knew because I'd read the story at DU last year:

Was Moses "Trippin"?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7532717
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our second quarter 2009 fund drive.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Not enough donations? Hey grovel you will put shrooms and mount sinai
up for bids?
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. Great, now prove to me Moses actually existed..nt
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TexasLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
36. I saw this thread and had to add the link
to something I watched a long while back/

http://www.pharmacratic-inquisition.com/main/

there's a long version and I think some shorter versions on the site. Interesting stuff.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
37. "the Lord Jehovah has given unto you these 15.... OY...ten, ten Commandments for all to obey"
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. LOL, very funny. Carlin had something to say about the 10 commandments too...
George Carlin - The Ten Commandments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkRYaMiP4K8


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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. lol...
the greatest scene from the greatest movie!!!!!!!!!!
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
38. that would certainly explain alot.
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. "ayahuasca, a powerful psychotropic plant"
Cool article, however, ayahuasca is not a plant. Its a boiled down tea mixture from two plants, one containing DMT and the other containing the MAO inhibitor harmaline preventing the DMT from being too rapidly destroyed in the gut.

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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
40. So then how come the first commandment wasn't
"Honor thy mind-altering substances and keep them legal forever and ever"?
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
43. I saw Moses, his name is Sunshine and he used to live in People's Park in Bloomington, IN.
he's an old hippy who fried his brain and called it divine. :rofl:

He'll also accept your leftovers from the late night burrito stop, if you have any.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
45. Way to ruin a perfectly good myth.
The whole story of Moses is almost certainly mythical. None of the archeology backs this story up. This "researcher" was having a vision of his own. Judaism is NOT diminished in any way just because this story is a metaphor, and not history.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. So, Jews see Moses as a metaphor
and not someone who actually existed?


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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Some do, some don't.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
48. Lot and his wife were doing shrooms. You heard it first here.
And Ezekiel loved to drop acid.



I'm only partially kidding. It is likely the early use of hallucinogenic substances played a role in "spiritual encounters" such as those recorded in that amalgamation of books called The Bible.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
49. Does that mean the 2 tablets were actually blotter?
with 5 hits each?
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
50. Far out, man!
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
51. No shit, Sherlock
Well, it's good to see the idea getting some serious academic play - I shouldn't complain. A great many religious mysteries have their origin in the cult of the mushroom, or something similar. Unfortunately it's easy to end up with a corrupt priesthood who substitute an ersatz sacrament for the participatory one and insist on themselves as sole mediators between the physical and spiritual worlds.

The key thing about psychedelics is not that you'll see God or that they provide definite Truths about reality, but that if you know how to use them, you're not longer dependent on some self-appointed intermediary for your spiritual explorations.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
52. "I've never had a religious experience, therefore it isn't possible that anyone has ever had one"
whatever.
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