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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:23 AM Original message |
Why is Geithners plan better than the government buying the toxic assets outright? |
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Democrats_win (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:30 AM Response to Original message |
1. Keeping it simple is not the way of men who "forgot" to pay their taxes. |
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tritsofme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:37 AM Response to Original message |
2. Isn't that basically the Paulson plan from October? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:39 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. I think so. Everyone hated it |
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dixiegrrrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:38 AM Response to Original message |
3. Why is Geithners plan better....for WHO? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:41 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. LOL...I didn't define "better" |
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dixiegrrrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:45 AM Response to Reply #5 |
8. You got it.... |
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Redbear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:43 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. I guess our answer is that people who make their money on Wall Street |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:50 AM Response to Reply #6 |
10. They will make big money on this plan |
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sad sally (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #6 |
25. And wasn't it sweet that they (wall street) got the advance notice |
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Median Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:43 AM Response to Original message |
7. Well, If The Gov Buys These Subprime Loans, Shouldn't The Gov Reduce The Principle On These Loans? |
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Cant trust em (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:46 AM Response to Original message |
9. If we buy all of the bad assets... |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:53 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. Under Geithner's plan, we own 0% of them. |
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ww2player (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:55 AM Response to Reply #9 |
12. They don't want the US to own all of it.. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 11:56 AM Response to Original message |
13. I'll Give It A Shot |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 12:16 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. A couple comments: |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 12:30 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. You're Ignoring Some Of The Most Salient Points I Made |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 12:55 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. And you are ignoring mine |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 01:11 PM Response to Reply #17 |
18. I've Addressed Everything You've Said |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. "85% loss is better than 100%" |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 01:27 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. It Is |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 02:54 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. The government should have an equity stake no less than their liability |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 03:46 PM Response to Reply #22 |
26. Why? The Government Loans Money ALL THE TIME W/ No Equity Stakes At All |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 03:58 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. Two points |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 04:04 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. I've Always Maintained That Criticizing The Risk/Equity Ratio Is Valid |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 04:17 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. "Equity stakes are usually NEVER an issue in their other multitudes of loan agreements." |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 04:27 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. I'm Not Disagreeing, As I Said It's A Valid Criticism |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:18 PM Response to Reply #31 |
36. "I've still not seen how this is true" |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:30 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. I Should Have Said Necessarily True |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:38 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Yes, I am among the non-trusting |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:47 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Well That's obvious! |
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Cronopio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:22 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. What you mention as "larger philosophical issues" are actually make-or-break issues. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:25 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. So How does natonalization accomplish |
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Cronopio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:47 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. Nationalizing The Big Four wouldn't solve the problem of their "toxic" assets. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:51 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. "Investors would have more reliable information on what to trade and who to trade with" |
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Cronopio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 07:07 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. "We need it to be blind somewhat so the bad is bought off ..." |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 07:21 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. "Geithner is pretending otherwise" |
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Cronopio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 07:28 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. That's it. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 09:02 PM Response to Reply #55 |
66. No, It's A Success If The World Economy Doesn't Fall Off A Cliff |
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Cronopio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 12:00 PM Response to Reply #66 |
98. I don't know where to start with this. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:58 PM Response to Reply #52 |
65. Wow, Now That's Just Downright Silly |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 09:53 PM Response to Reply #65 |
69. "We need as much data as possible" |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 07:30 AM Response to Reply #69 |
72. See, That's The Problem, That's How YOU Understand It |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:57 PM Response to Reply #51 |
64. So You've Settled On Your Pet Theory Of Ulterior Motives And Drawn Conclusions Based Upon |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 09:21 PM Response to Reply #64 |
68. THE SKY IS FALLING! |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 07:27 AM Response to Reply #68 |
71. Must Be Nice Up In Your Ivory Tower |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:08 PM Response to Reply #29 |
32. BTW, to break it down in dollars and cents. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:20 PM Response to Reply #32 |
46. Oy! Thanks But I Already Understood The Underlying Principles |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 07:10 PM Response to Reply #46 |
54. "if you don't trust Obama to competently handle" |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 07:58 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. LOL! Such A Shitty Plan? OK Nostradamus! |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:28 PM Response to Reply #57 |
60. I know the merits of the plan |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:35 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. You Have An Opinion And You've Already Made Up Your Mind That It Will Fail |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:48 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. "You've Already Made Up Your Mind That It Will Fail" - Not true |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:51 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. Really? There Are Ways To Do It Much Lower Cost? And How Will You Determine The Value Of Their |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 09:14 PM Response to Reply #63 |
67. Yes...here is a quick way to do it much cheaper. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 07:32 AM Response to Reply #67 |
73. Ok Gordon Gekko! Obama Should Open Up An Etrade Account And Get To Work! |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 10:45 AM Response to Reply #73 |
75. There is nothing wrong with using legitimate business mechanism to retain ownership |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 10:51 AM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Nothing Wrong? You Mean Aside From The Legal And Ethical Issues?? |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:00 AM Response to Reply #76 |
78. And the better alternative is to just seize them? |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:06 AM Response to Reply #78 |
80. "Id rather see the government buy the company legitimately." |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:11 AM Response to Reply #80 |
82. Its humorous how it is only legal to steal money... |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:16 AM Response to Reply #82 |
85. You Still Have Not Shown Money Is Being "Stolen" In This Situation |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:21 AM Response to Reply #85 |
87. You keep talking about those who have made up their mind.... |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:22 AM Response to Reply #87 |
88. Please Show My "Definite" (Whatever That Is) Support |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:26 AM Response to Reply #88 |
90. You support is shown in how you are adamantly dismissive of the other side. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:27 AM Response to Reply #90 |
91. So Go Ahead And Put Up My Adamant Dismissiveness |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:35 AM Response to Reply #91 |
94. Should I copy and paste pages? Just about every post here |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:37 AM Response to Reply #94 |
95. So It Should Be Easy, Put Up Examples IN CONTEXT Please |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:40 AM Response to Reply #95 |
96. Here is an example: |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:41 AM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Thought So, You Got Nuthin' |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 12:09 AM Response to Reply #61 |
70. Here is some good analysis on the sucess potential of the plan itself: |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 09:31 AM Response to Reply #70 |
74. It's Obvious You've Made Up Your Mind |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 03:13 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. "You're going into philosophical territory that is beyond the scope of the questions at hand" |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 03:48 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. Oy! Perhaps It Is, But I Don't Feel Like Getting Into It Now |
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acmavm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 12:58 PM Response to Reply #17 |
100. Give it up. Apparently we're supposed to buy up these assets and |
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Mike 03 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:13 PM Response to Reply #13 |
34. I couldn't have said it better. I wish you'd start a new thread on this: Why Geithner's Plan Make |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 12:39 PM Response to Original message |
16. Because part of the problem we are having is being able to attract investors |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 01:12 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. "America owning bad assets is not going to help their value." |
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dixiegrrrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 03:12 PM Response to Original message |
23. Here is the plan I am for |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:13 PM Response to Original message |
33. How about neither plan |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:22 PM Response to Reply #33 |
37. But the problem in this scenario... |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:31 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. Credit is already gone, and frankly no matter how much money you pump into the system |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:41 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. You know, I understand that |
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Cronopio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:07 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. "... national consumer lending branches to get the job done ..." |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:17 PM Response to Original message |
35. or lowering the prices of these homes so we can buy them? |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:34 PM Response to Original message |
40. Banks will refuse to sell.. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 05:38 PM Response to Reply #40 |
41. Ahhh, But We Will Have Thoroughly Analyzed Their Assets |
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high density (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:21 PM Response to Reply #40 |
47. I think they're going to want to sell |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:14 PM Response to Reply #47 |
58. It depends on whether or not they think.. |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 06:30 PM Response to Original message |
50. This is all a shell game.. |
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debbierlus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-24-09 08:24 PM Response to Original message |
59. It isn't any better. And, Keep It Simple Stupid only works when you are trying to be honest |
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Marie26 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 10:59 AM Response to Original message |
77. Because it's privatized, not nationalized. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:03 AM Response to Reply #77 |
79. Risk is still nationalized here, and the profit is privatized |
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Gin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:09 AM Response to Reply #79 |
81. are these swaps still allowed? if so, is it possible the deal could be bet against |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:12 AM Response to Reply #81 |
83. LOL. I couldn't imagine anyone thinking that was relatively a good idea. |
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Marie26 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:16 AM Response to Reply #79 |
86. Exactly. |
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Doremus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:14 AM Response to Original message |
84. Because there isn't enough money in the world to buy them. |
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Oregone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:24 AM Response to Reply #84 |
89. But something that I don't understand... |
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Doremus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:29 AM Response to Reply #89 |
92. There isn't enough money in the world ..... literally. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 11:35 AM Response to Reply #92 |
93. You Are Confusing MBS With CDS |
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Irish Girl (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-25-09 12:43 PM Response to Original message |
99. Bookmarked this thread |
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