With due respect to CODE PINK. . .

[wndycty]

. . .I applaud their efforts and their activism, however I am not a fan of them showing up at hearings to disrupt the proceedings. Now we don't know how they are going to behave at today's AIG hearing but we I am tuning in to watch and listen to this Liddy character and the Congressmen and Congresswomen.

They, CODE PINK, have a right to free speech, but sometimes they seem like they are just doing what they do for publicity and nothing more.

[burythehatchet]

1. Medea and Code Pink speak for me.

[wndycty]

3. That is good to know that you have no respect for authority and due process. . .

. . .protesting is something I support, DISRUPTING HEARINGS is not something I support.

[whathehell]

7. How do you know that they are there to do that?

[wndycty]

11. Let's talk in about 3 hours

:kick:

[burythehatchet]

122. Ready to talk yet?

[wndycty]

127. Well there has already been one reported disruption. . .

. . .so yes lets talk.

[MadBadger]

16. Seriously? They never just sit and watch.

[el_bryanto]

2. Better watch what you say about Code Pink

But presumably you know that already. There are plenty of people Democratic Underground who are so eager to see someone standing up to power, they don't much care what is actually said.

Bryant

[wndycty]

5. I know and those very folks will never understand how to really deal with and attain their own power

. . .

[burythehatchet]

19. your ass is showing

[wndycty]

28. How so? You throw out that insult. . .now explain it. . .

. . .or is it too easy to make a drive by comment and not back it up.

Tell me how my ass is showing.

[bobbolink]

176. Insults is all some DUers have. It's the "progressive" way to peacefully discuss,

doncha know.

Yup, insulting others in the name of peace.

:crazy:

[wndycty]

183. Exactly

:kick:

[el_bryanto]

40. Sorry me and Karl are busy planning the next RNC fundraiser, what were you saying? nt

[snooper2]

80. That should say, " Karl Rove and I "

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

[anaxarchos]

76. This is "irony", right?

By standing up for trivial decorum and telling Code Pink how to behave, you are really "dealing with" and "attaining" your "own power"?

And here I thought you were presenting a subtle cultural satire of pre-Vietnam America...

[wndycty]

79. Trivial decorum?

Wow. . .

[anaxarchos]

93. Less than trivial...

You can add cynical, hypocritical, and farcical to the mix. You seem to have missed all that has happened while focused on those Pink People.

Be careful how deeply you bow down to power... your slip is showing.

Or do you operate under the delusion that YOU are in "power"?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

140. T-R-I-V-I-A-L!

Yes.

Trivial.

When your child is murdered in an illegal fucking war everything else becomes TRIVIAL. Standing up where the asshats who voted this war into action need to see the faces of some real AMERICANS who do not take too kindly to the murder and slaughter of people - Americans and Iraqis alike. Death. That is the consequence of being silent and observing trivial b.s. niceties -

If I believed in a god I would thank it for people brave enough to face the bullies and go to jail for their convictions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

154. Amen

When this war is over we will have the CP ladies to thank.

IVAW is doing an action across from the White House today. So get ready for the poutrage on DU. :hi:

[Maru Kitteh]

207. What the hell do Barney Frank and the newly appointed AIG sacrificial lamb have to do with

Darth Cheney and the Bush wars?

Your post is ...... incoherent.

[ogneopasno]

116. I agree with you. I have hated the phrase "speak truth to power" since the first time I heard it.

I don't want to speak truth to power. I want to get that power and wield the truth.

[anaxarchos]

163. I'm a guessin'...

..that you want to do that in exactly that order:

FIRST, "you" will get "power"...

THEN, you will "wield the truth"...

a lot later...

when it's practical...

[EFerrari]

130. Yes. Conformity is such a power builder.

But I understand. CSPAN Theater must go on!

lol

[MadBadger]

4. I'm not exactly sure what they're doing at these hearings.

[wndycty]

6. They are there to scream and disrupt. . .

. . .it is really going to help us understand what happened :sarcasm:

[burythehatchet]

15. Ah yes, today will be about teaching. Not grandstanding by cynical politicians

but teaching you "what happened". Gee, I hope you get it all sorted out today.

[wndycty]

29. Its a goddamned hearing. . .

. . .keep sitting on the outside looking in. Agitate for the sake of agitation and take no responsibility for understanding and discussing what happened. . .have fun.

[Winterblues]

38. The more attention to these crooks the better

Code Pink brings National attention. That is their goal. They do whatever it takes to fight against a very stacked deck. If the American people don't get interested then the theft continues. They create attention, you don't.

[wndycty]

46. CODE PINK brings national attention? You mean to tell me this hearing was not. . .

. . .going to get national attention without CODE PINK? You mean as a result of CODE PINK showing up this will get more attention?

[Winterblues]

70. Seems to have gotten your attention.

Yes, most definitely. There will be news reports of their outlandish behavior and people that would never had paid a bit of attention to these hearings will hear about Code Pink and wonder why they were making a fuss. Not everyone in America pays as much attention to politics and government as you and I do, yet they usually do watch the evening news.

[wndycty]

74. So I tuned into the hearing to watch CODE PINK? I didn't know they were going to be there. . .

. . .they got my attention, but at the end of the day they are not why I tuned in and their presence is more of a distraction for me.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

146. You do not know

what the hell you are talking about.

That is NOT what they are there for.

They are there to be a reality check for the blowhard politicians who haven't had to clean their own toilets for years. The women of CP are not YOUR enemy. They are a bunch of broads who would rather be with their own families but their consciences will not allow them to sit by and do NOTHING. They got their asses on a plane and spent their own money to go to D.C. to make sure the politicians do not forget that some people are pretty pissed off.

I do not have the stones to do what they do.

[Lost in CT]

151. They want to get on the news because they are _____ nt

[Hippo_Tron]

181. Let me give you an example

Last summer I was at the House Judiciary Committee Justice Oversight hearing where Mukasey was the witness. The congressmen would question Mukasey, the Democrats mostly about the politicization of the Justice Department something that codepink agrees is a problem. Periodically after a Democrat finished questioning Mukasey the woman from codepink would utter the line "Amen! Lets bring some justice to the Justice Department!!" and would do so just loud enough for the room to hear her but not loud enough for security to feel the need to kick her out and make a scene. Such behavior is annoying, disruptive, and accomplishes absolutely nothing.

[cobalt1999]

8. You are right, but get ready for the hypocrites

You know, the ones who'd be loudly condemning an anti-abortion group that was disrupting hearings, but will cheer when Code Pink does it.

[cali]

10. good point. one which I doubt those supporting code pink's

history of disrupting hearings, will address.

[ogneopasno]

117. VERY true.

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. Yes the message isn't important at all

:crazy:

[Lilith Velkor]

164. Disrupting hearings would be an improvement for that crowd

If a Pinkie blows up a recruiting station or kills a recruiter and we cheer, then you can go ahead and call us hypocrites.

[proud2BlibKansan]

177. They are not violent

Now someone pinch me cause I don't think I am on DU.

[Lilith Velkor]

179. The anti-abortion crowd is violent.

They blew up two clinics near my house when I was a kid. Shot a doctor in the street in broad daylight.

If Pinkies start doing shit like that, then the poster to whom I was responding gets to call us hypocrites. Until then, it is mere sneering douchebaggery.

[proud2BlibKansan]

182. Code Pink is not violent

and never will be.

Comparing CP to the anti-choicers or to Fred Phelps is absolutely ridiculous. They have a method in common but not a message. Anyone who doesn't understand the difference between method and message shouldn't even be posting here.

Yes it is definitely sneering douchbaggery. Also poutrage.

[Lilith Velkor]

185. I am a CPer, you fucking moron!

Jeesh!

[proud2BlibKansan]

190. I know that

Read my post again you fucking moron. Sheesh is right.

[cobalt1999]

180. So, you only called a large hypocrite vs. a little hypocrite.

Got it.

Sorry. Either an action is okay for those we disagree with or it's not okay even for those we agree with. Otherwise, you know what you are, no matter how you try to justify it away.

[Lilith Velkor]

184. Then let me spell it out for you, and I'll try to use small words.

Anti-abortion protesters disrupting hearings is fine by me.

Have fun with your straw woman.

[cobalt1999]

192. Then you aren't a hypocrite.

If you support all groups disrupting hearing regardless if you agree with their goals, kudos to you.

If you are against all groups disrupting hearing regardless if you agree with their goals, again, kudos to you.

The hypocrites are those who only support such actions for groups they agree with, but will howl in protest if another group does the exact same thing.

Those folks know who they are.

[Lilith Velkor]

193. Fine, you two go fight or something.

For fuck's sake. :eyes:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

9. Thank the big whatever in the sky

that Code Pink shows up to speak for a lot of us.

[wndycty]

12. I applaud their speaking for us, I CONDEMN their disruption of hearings. . .

. . .it is unnecessary to disrupt hearings to speak for us. . .dontchathink?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

133. I hope they

step forward and disrupt every single hearing until the TRUTH is heard.

It is necessary to get in their faces.

It is not easy to step forward and force a confrontation.

I know some of these brave women. They are heros.

I could not do what they do. They are arrested over and over because they want an end to WAR.

If you lose a child in an illegal war, then tell me you think sitting by meekly waiting for the truth to come out is okay.

[earth mom]

97. That photo is priceless! GO Code Pink!

:yourock:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Do you remember the Iran-Contra hearings?

Do you remember the man who was dragged out of the hearing room crying "Ask about the drugs! Ask about the drugs!"

He was sentenced to a prison term. To this day, I wish the committee HAD asked about the drugs, because there WAS evidence that the CIA had facilitated the shipment of crack into America's inner cities.

What Code Pink does is not without risk, and I believe they're there with the intention of keeping the hearings honest and bringing up matters that the committee members are too clueless or too corrupt to ask about. (And no, getting Obama elected wasn't NEARLY enough, as we can see now.)

I know some local Code Pink members here in Minneapolis. They are long-time activists, full of sorrow and anger at what our country has done. I applaud them for getting out there and doing something about it.

[wndycty]

18. My main question is. . .is it necessary to disrupt hearings. . .

. . .have their disruptions led to any relevant developments over the years?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. I don't know about every disruption, but they put Congress on notice

that someone is watching and taking notes, really taking notes, not just regurgitating press releases, like the MSM do.

[endarkenment]

14. can't they be more lady like?

:sarcasm:

[wndycty]

20. Has nothing to do with GENDER it has everything to do with productive activism. . .

. . .which it is not.

[MadBadger]

24. You know how people like to invent sexism...

[Dukkha]

158. "productive activism" = complacency

if you're not outraged you're not paying attention, or you're just apathetic.

[cali]

25. yeah, this is really about sexism. not.

[endarkenment]

53. sure it is

on the other hand, it could be about how Code Pink is equivalent to the Fags Burn In Hell gang. Take your pick of inanity.

The OP was all about propriety, and as Code Pink is a self identified Woman's Activist organization:

"CODEPINK emerged out of a desperate desire by a group of American women to stop the Bush administration from invading Iraq. The name CODEPINK plays on the Bush Administration's color-coded homeland security alerts — yellow, orange, red — that signal terrorist threats. While Bush's color-coded alerts are based on fear and are used to justify violence, the CODEPINK alert is a feisty call for women and men to "wage peace.""

this regurgitation of the standard whine seen here on DU regarding Code Pink is the complaint, as far as I am concerned, that these women be more lady like.

Protests and activism should be the opposite of lady like and proper. Propriety gets no coverage.

Free Abbie Hoffman!

[MadBadger]

55. Ahh yes. The timeless act of finding sexism where NONE exists.

[wndycty]

60. Last I heard didn't CODE PINK have some male members?

Am I right or wrong on that?

[endarkenment]

88. Here is what they say about their organization

"CODEPINK is a women-initiated grassroots peace and social justice movement working to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, stop new wars, and redirect our resources into healthcare, education, green jobs and other life-affirming activities. CODEPINK rejects foreign policies based on domination and aggression, and instead calls for policies based on diplomacy compassion and a commitment to international law. With an emphasis on joy and humor, CODEPINK women and men seek to activate, amplify and inspire a community of peacemakers through creative campaigns and a commitment to non-violence.

Why women?

CODEPINK is not exclusively women — we invite men to join us — -but we are particularly eager to see mothers, grandmothers, sisters, and daughters, female workers, students, teachers, healers, artists, writers, singers, poets and all outraged woman rise up and oppose the war in Iraq. Women have been the guardians of life — not because we are better or purer or more innately nurturing than men, but because the men have busied themselves making war. Because of our responsibility to the next generation, because of our own love for our families and communities, it is time we women devote ourselves — wholeheartedly — to the business of making peace."

http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?list=type&type=3


And yes of course there are men. They aren't sexist. They just ain't lady-like enough for your taste in protest propriety.

[wndycty]

95. You are really stretching. Are you even remotely trying to imply that I'm saying it would be. . .

. . .acceptable behavior if CODE PINK was a male dominated group?

Is that what you are getting at, please demonstrate to me how I feel it would be acceptable behavior if CODE PINK were a male organization?

[endarkenment]

100. I guess we will just have to put that to the test.

So far you have demanded that these women activists shut up and sit down, and declared them to be the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church Burn In Hell Fags gang. If and when you get a big poutrage over some more male oriented progressive protest group, I'll reconsider my opinion of your OP. Not holding my breath on that one.

[wndycty]

109. Again tell me how I am being sexist? I have not addressed gender in this thread other than. . .

. . .to respond to your implication that my criticism of CODE PINK is somehow sexist.

So again, tell me how I am being sexist.

[endarkenment]

134. Your entire OP was dismissive and patronizing.

The fact that you have gotten so bothered and defensive about a mild snark indicates that perhaps I might have hit home.

[wndycty]

145. No you accused me of sexism, used it to shield CODE PINK so if you make the accusation. . .

. . .you need to back it up. You can needle me about being defensive but realistically that sounds like a defense mechanism you are falling back on because you made an accusation that you can't back up.

[endarkenment]

86. Ah yes the endless repeating of empty refutation.

But do continue to support an OP who has asserted an equivalence between Fred Phelps and Media Benjamin. After all they both are disruptive.

[MadBadger]

92. The OP and myself have different disagreements with Code Pink

But I still fail to the sexism you are inventing.

[snooper2]

84. If you put "be more lady like"

It a couple more posts, someone just might start to believe your line of bullshit ;-)

[endarkenment]

87. can't they please be more lady like? nt.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

138. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[endarkenment]

150. OMC Denounced!

wow I am defeated.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

166. Psssssssttttt.... You Were Defeated In This Thread Longgggggggg Before I Found It.

:hi:

[endarkenment]

171. And yet you felt the need to defeat me again?

how odd.

[earth mom]

17. How else can things change if elected officials don't hear or fear the people?

The reason this country is in the mess it's in is that politicians are NOT listening to the people but rather their corporate masters first and foremost.

It's time for the people to go all French on them so they fear the people and do what the people demand. :grr:

[MadBadger]

21. Code Pink's mission is stop war...I'm not sure where AIG fits into all that.

[earth mom]

50. Code Pink also fought hard for the Impeachment of * & Cheney.

Guess you think that was irrelevant too? :eyes:

This thread is nothing more than a bash fest on Code Pink. :puke:

[MadBadger]

51. Pretty easy to link the impeachment of Bush and Cheney to Code Pink's Agenda.

This however, not so much.

[earth mom]

58. Who are you to say what their agenda is? The economy is everyone's problem now.

Code Pink should be applauded for their efforts.

Code Pink ROCKS! :applause:

[MadBadger]

59. They say what their agenda is. Just take a look at their mission statement.

[earth mom]

64. Code Pink is exercising their RIGHTS. Too damn bad if you don't like it. nt

[kas125]

206. EVERY thread that mentions CP ends up in a bash fest on us.

Hasn't stopped us yet...

[acmavm]

68. AIG represents another enemy in ANOTHER war. One being waged right

here in our own country. The war between the predator class and the rest of us.

Only one side (has had any rights in this war) and that is the predator's side. Code Pink is trying to stop 'our' reps (who have done fucking nothing so far) from continuing to hand over every fucking dime this nation has to these criminals.

It is not like our 'reps' will fucking come out and help us. Every fucking gain that we've made against the corrupt bastids who have ben ruling this country have been made BECAUSE of people such as Code Pink standing in the halls and in the protest areas, telling the truth that the fuckwits we elected and pay to represent us work hard to keep hidden.

Everybody LOVED them when they were asking the hard questions of the bush** admin. Everybody loved them when they stood up and risked jail time to point out the lies and the crimes. THEY pointed them out, not our lovely defenders of our rights and way of life. Those guys spent the last fucking 8 years supporting the crooks, voting them money for their wars and torture prisons, telecom spying, any damn thing that bush** & cheney wanted.

So now its an Obama administration (and we have some real weasels serving in that administration) and you want them to go away? Well, maybe you should because unlike Code Pink I don't see that you've contributed very much to get us to where we are today. They stood on the front lines. You bitched on a democratic web site.

They're standing there protesting to get ALL THE INFORMATION OUT. Not just some of it, ALL OF IT. What are you doing? Sitting here bitching like I am? Oh yeah, I guess you are.

[earth mom]

82. Code Pink is doing a thankless job and I salute them for it.

Anyone who hates Code Pink has several screws loose and doesn't belong on DU. :crazy:

[Lilith Velkor]

167. That war is the ONLY war

All the others are just fronts in that war.

[Pretty_in_CodePink]

191. It's a match with our mission of promoting social justice

From the website www.codepinkalert.org "CODEPINK is a women-initiated grassroots peace and social justice movement working to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, stop new wars, and redirect our resources into healthcare, education, green jobs and other life-affirming activities."

Sorry you find the tactics distasteful. What I find distasteful are the government actions that continue to require extreme vigilance and action. Some of us women are tired of operating from a male playbook. I am grateful for the women that are willing to speak out wherever, whenever. I don't really see too many other people doing so in a public and visible way.

[wndycty]

23. Is it necessary to disrupt hearings for elected officials to hear or fear the people?

:kick:

[earth mom]

52. It's time for the people to play hardball. The time for playing nice is OVER.

Or maybe you haven't noticed that people are living in tents these days. :grr:

[cobalt1999]

33. What if the people that organize and disrupt the most have an agenda you disagree with?

The "How else can things change if officials don't fear the people" argument is stupid.

What if they fear Christian Fundamentalists more than you? There goes abortion rights, gay rights, teaching evolution, and separation of church and state right out the window.

You are either short-sighted in your approach or a hypocrite or both.

[wndycty]

36. Yup, think Fred Phelps and his Westboro Church

:kick:

[Goblinmonger]

69. I think Phelps has the right to do what he is doing, too.

I have always been an advocate of the Marketplace of Ideas. Too bad many on here aren't. Seems like a progressive concept.

[cobalt1999]

143. At least you are not a hypocrite.

My point was that many of the people that would condemn Phelps or anti-abortionists think it is okay when Code Pink does the same thing.

I can respect your attitude of not condemning the action regardless of what agenda a group has. You are consistent and not a hypocrite.

Personally, I don't think disrupting hearings is a good approach for any group even one I agree with, so I'm trying to stay consistent too.

We may be on opposite sides, but you I can respect.

[earth mom]

62. You are talking about fringe groups which is why your argument sucks. The MAJORITY of the people

in this country believe as Code Pink does.

I don't know anyone who doesn't want the same things that Code Pink wants which are to:

Stop the War.

Throw * & Cheney in Jail.

Kick the Wall Street robber barons in the a$$ for fucking up the economy.


I suppose YOU think these are fringe ideas or short sighted? Perhaps you are the hypocrite for even being on DU in the first place. :eyes:

[cobalt1999]

66. LOL!

The MAJORITY of the people vote against gay marriage over and over. Using your argument, if an anti-gay group was disrupting hearings in order to push through their agenda, that's okay because they are the MAJORITY.

You are displaying some very weak & hypocritical arguments in order to try and justify the unjustifiable.

However, it's always entertaining to see you hypocrites squirm. :rofl:

[earth mom]

75. The majority of people in this country could give a flying fuck about stopping gay marriage.

Gay marriage is a hot trigger button for the fundies and homophobes-it gets them to the voting booths in high numbers.

But they are NOT the majority and most certainly are fringe.

EVERYONE on DU knows that but you. I wonder why? :eyes:

[cobalt1999]

85. You are being intellectually dishonest.

BTW, every group thinks they are representing some "silent majority". The anti-abortionists do, the school prayer groups do, the anti-gay marriage groups do, etc.

You may believe this country is a majority liberal in it's thinking, but I know better.

[earth mom]

94. It's obvious that you are getting your opinions from Faux News-the most intellectually dishonest

not to mention stupid place on the planet. They are convinced that everyone is conservative in this country too, so stop being so intellectually dishonest (or is that flat out lying?) yourself. :eyes:

[wndycty]

99. Oy vey. . .

. . .I need a thigh high boots to deal with the BS being spewed.

[earth mom]

104. How about the total b.s. of your totally disingenuous OP that says "with all due respect"

and is anything but?!

This OP about Code Pink is about as respectful as a shit sandwich served on a silver plate. :puke:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

144. Maybe The Respect Due Was Minimal.

Either way, the statement is accurate.

[cobalt1999]

102. You are a hoot!

You actually believe that the U.S. is a liberal country. :rofl:

There are 300,000 churches in the U.S. compared to 3,000 homeless shelters. Come back and talk to me about how liberal this country is when those numbers are swapped around.

[earth mom]

107. ROFLMAO! Your posts are a total joke.

You think that 300K churches proves people are conservative?! :rofl:

The reason there are 300K churches in this country is because the scammers and snake oil salesmen are rife in this country.

Greed is everywhere-in churches, in the media, on Wall Street, in Congress, and even here on DU where some people are worried that Code Pink is going to expose the corruption for what it is and get the people to pay attention, take to the streets and kick some Wall Street a$$.

Can't have the people rocking your boat, can you?

[cobalt1999]

113. Like I said come back when you have some data to prove your assertion.

Come back and talk about how liberal the U.S. is when there are more than 1 homeless shelter for 100 churches.
Come back and talk about how liberal the U.S. is when 2/3 of this country doesn't think Global Warming is an issue.
Come back and talk about how liberal the U.S. is when more than 1/4 of this country believes in evolution.
I can go on and on and on.

You've got nothing.

On edit: I wish I could believe in your opinion of our population. I've just seen too often how much of this country believes. Maybe one day you will be right and the majority of this country will be liberal. I'm not holding my breath though.

[wndycty]

118. A lot of assertions are being made without back up on this thread

:kick:

[Two Americas]

203. and they are all correct

Politics is always driven by several small factions competing for public attention.

The public just overwhelmingly rejected Reaganomics and the Religious Right. Extensive surveys by Pew Research asking people about political issues without any cues as to which positions were "liberal" or "conservative" found that 70-80% of the public support very left wing positions, far to the Left of what we hear here or from the Democratic party politicians.


...

[wndycty]

77. Thanks for the support. . .you get it what I am saying. . .despite their nasty rhetoric. . .

. . .a lot of folks agree with Westboro on some issues, but folks are not running to embrace them.

[Lost in CT]

187. Fearing Code Pink is like fearing Gallagher...

They are an embarrassing comic relief nothing more.

[AngryAmish]

22. One has to admire their quiet dignity

[wndycty]

27. Disrupting hearings is not quite dignity. . .its foolishness

I have no problem with their activism AND I SUPPORT their activism, but I do not CONDONE their behavior at hearings.

This might be hard for some to understand but you don't need to condone disrupting hearings to support the overall mission and objectives of CODE PINK.

:kick:

[Goblinmonger]

71. Why do you place hearings on such a high pedestal?

Don't you think that most of the time they are just a bunch of windbags talking to hear themselves talk? When do things actually get done as a result of hearings? Would you have been pissed if they had disrupted the McCarthy hearings?

[endarkenment]

89. Now there is an excellent question.

eagerly awaiting an answer to that...

[burythehatchet]

91. Don't bother. The pitchforks are out. The mob is fixated on the enemy of the hour.

What a pathetic bunch of genuflecting party apparatchiks. Their sensibilities are offended because a real bunch of liberals might stand up and shout for 8 seconds. Y'know, it might reflect badly on Democrats. Pathetic drones.

[petronius]

120. Considering that the Army-McCarthy hearings signaled the end of McCarthy's sway - yes

I for one would have been pissed if Code Pink had time-traveled back and disrupted them. The form of disruption that CP is known for would only have helped McCarthy...

[Goblinmonger]

128. What about the hearings before that?

He held many hearings that ruined many lives.

[petronius]

156. Same answer. CP-style disruptions would have provided no benefit during

McCarthy's era and they provide no benefit now.

[lunatica]

26. Our society thinks it's OK to carry and use guns

and even thinks it's respectable. And to go to war on a whim killing civilians, but a small group of loud women daring to disrupt? Not so much...

[wndycty]

30. Disrupt for what purspose? For the sake of disruption?

:kick:

[lunatica]

35. Yes

[MadBadger]

31. Is this a hearing on Iraq or Afghanistan? Did I miss something?

[lunatica]

39. It's a venue

Is New York City a place to have demonstrations against a war? But don't worry, the ladies will be dragged out shortly

[MadBadger]

43. Do you realize how ridiculous it looks to be Protesting War at a hearing on AIG?

[cali]

32. uh, what the hell does all that have to do with the AIG hearings?

[wndycty]

34. Folks have decided disruption is the only solutution. . .you know who else embraces that philosophy?

Fred Phelps.

[cali]

37. oh c;'mon. seriousl.y, comparing code pind to Fred Phelps is just

absurd.

[wndycty]

41. Folks who show up the protest for the sake of disrupting?

Granted I support CODE PINK's agenda, but I do not endorse their tactics.

Funeral of a fallen soldier or another high profile individual? You can count on Fred Phelps and Westboro to show up to disrupt.

Nationally televised hearing? You can count on CODE PINK to show up to disrupt.

[lunatica]

42. It's a public venue and an opportunity to dissent and to be seen dissenting

Pretty basic.

[wndycty]

44. So let's welcome Westboro Church to these hearings

:kick:

[MadBadger]

See now you are doing what CP is doing...Diluting your message by comparing them to Westboro

No matter your point, people will immediately see you comparing them to Phelps and that will be the fight from there.

CP dilutes their message by protesting at an AIG hearing.

[wndycty]

56. I feel my point is important. . .think about the number of MAINSTREAM conservatives. . .

. . .agree with many of the sentiments of Fred Phelps and Westboro Church? Westboro has so marginalized itself that MAINSTREAM conservatives will distance themselves from that organization. If you get beyond Westboro's rhetoric and tactics you have to acknowledge MAINSTREAM conservatives, especially the religious right, agree with much of what they say.

CODE PINK does risk the same marginalization on the left. I AGREE WITH MUCH OF THEIR IDEOLOGY but I would have to distance myself from their rhetoric and tactics.

[MadBadger]

57. The Right hates Fred Phelps. Ever see Sean Hannity face off against Westboro

Westboro simply hates America.

[wndycty]

61. I agree with you but how is Westboro's stance on the GLBT community. . .

. . .any different than the religious right's stance on the GLBT community.

My point is that because of Westboro's behavior they are hated on the right, not because of their beliefs.

Think about it.

[cali]

45. it's also a good way to dilute your message and to

be seen as meaningless. That's certainly their choice, but this gives fodder to those that claim that CPers are publicity hounds.

[cali]

47. So you'd think that an anti-abortion group that showed up and disrupted/protested

was being patriotic and doing their cause a world of good, right?

[wndycty]

48. You hit the nail on the head

:kick:

[cali]

49. Actually, someone upthread hit the nail on the head.

I just reophrased it.

[TayTay]

65. Your logic in this post is extremely faulty.

I have watched numerous hearings at which Code Pink had a presence. They did not disrupt the hearings. They sat and listened to the testimony and made comments that could be picked up publicly at breaks in the testimony and at the end of the hearing. They did dress in bright pink colors and brought signs with them, signs that had to fit the rules of the hearing rooms in terms of size and language.

You presuppose, without evidence, that Code Pink is a disruptor group. You do not show by way of easily obtainable video from C-Span or the Senate Foreign Relations Committee exactly what behavior you object to. This is disingenuous at best and lazy at worst.

Then you bring this Westboro Baptist Church thing into the discussion as a way to pretend that this is some sort of free speech versus order thing. Westboro Baptist Church has nothing to do with Code Pink. They do, however, have a constitutionally protected right of free speech. Free speech, however, is not a one-way street. The purpose of the whole thing is to sponsor debate.

It sounds to me like you are advocating for prior restraint of free speech. This would be wrong. On what hard basis, with evidence, would you do this or restrict these provisions of the Bill of Rights to the US Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Democracy is an inherently messy process. It involves the input of the people and allowing many voices to be heard. Code Pink has always observed the rules of the hearing structure, so I fail to see what it is you are objecting to unless it is the idea of questioning power.

[wndycty]

67. CODE PINK has rights to free speech but I don't? I support much of their agenda. . .

. . .I TAKE ISSUE WITH THEIR TACTICS and I have a concern that they might become the left's Westboro Church.

Its a reasonable discussion, don't you think? If you don't agree with me, fine. I am not trying to inflame anything. A discussion of their tactics is appropriate in my opinion.

We can disagree on their tactics can't we?

[TayTay]

81. What tactics?

Showing up at a hearing, sitting quietly with signs and bright clothing and waiting until hearing breaks to say something loudly, but not loudly enough to be asked to leave the hearing?

You have a very low tolerance for free speech, the right of redress of grievances and so forth.

BTW, what about the Foreign Relations hearings in the past where Chairman Biden THANKED Code Pink for being there and making sure the Senators knew that people cared about what was going on and what was being said? Any thoughts on that?

[wndycty]

83. Explain to me how I have a low tolerance for free speech? CODE PINK has often had to be removed. .

. . .from hearings.

[TayTay]

126. When?

When and under what circumstances?

[wndycty]

131. Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aAU76bqL4Y

Now I know the clip is from FAUX NEWS and you imply it has to be fake but I can assure it is real.

[TayTay]

153. Here you go

This is Code Pink's own video from an appearance at a hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39KlDY18GFs&feature=channel_page

Ohhh, very disruptive. They brought signs! Scary. I hope that the elected representatives and the witnesses didn't have a fainting spell when they actually saw protesters with signs at a public hearing. Heavens!

[Name removed]

54. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TreasonousBastard]

72. It looks like they are rapidly sinking into irrelevence...

and are gasping for air when disrupting hearings. This is counterproductive to their stated goals, but does give them publicity.

I agree with pretty much all they stand for, but the truth is that they have been ineffective at getting anything they want. How did that go with demonstrating against Bush all those years? How's it gonna go demonstrating against Obama or the present Congress?

They can make all the noise they want, but unless and until they find a way into the real power structures, they'll be nothing but a politcal sideshow.

(And parallels with Phelps are appropriate on some level-- both are on the fringes of their movements and good for a laugh but not much else.)

[wndycty]

78. Thanks for understanding my Phelps comparison. . .

. . .

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

139. They've Been Irrelevant If Not Even Counter Productive For Quite Some Time Now.

[Goblinmonger]

73. I firmly support any group

that is told to shut the hell up because they aren't helping the cause. Sounds like what is said about gays, atheists, blacks, etc, etc, etc over the years.

[HughMoran]

90. I like Pink

She rawks! :headbang:


j/k :)

[The Stranger]

96. "just doing what they do for publicity" said the person posting on the public internet board.

Thanks for sharing.

No, really.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

98. They're noisy, abrasive, troublemakers that don't trust the government.

We need a lot more like them in a democracy.

[Echo In Light]

101. Fuckin-A right we do. MORE, not less, disruption of phony go-through-the-motions hearings

I get a kick outta the apple-polishers who are annoyed over how unprofessional and unseemly activists are.

[burythehatchet]

106. My lower back hurts from genuflecting.

:)

[burythehatchet]

103. Amen TyL. Let's keep this well moderated piece of shit thread kicked.

[fascisthunter]

105. I'll Make Sure I Make a Donation to them in Your Name

[wndycty]

111. Be sure to send me a receipt of said donation. . .

. . .so that I know that you are not just talking shit. How large of donation are pledging?

[fascisthunter]

135. I Have nothing to Prove to you or any Anonymous Poster Who Tries to Slam

real activists and people who actually do something besides posting glib shit about those who do.

[wndycty]

148. Anonymous poster slamming real activists?

1) I have been here since 2001

2) I have met a number of DUers including administrators over the years (hardly anonymous)

3) My sigline contains a link to my blog and its not hard to track me down

4) I am not slamming real activists, but taking issue with a particular group's tactics, while at the same time embracing their mission.

Go ahead throw another baseless accusation around.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

108. And this is exactly why...

many of us DU old-timers sit, shake our heads, and say DU sure isn't the place it used to be.

Sigh. :(

[burythehatchet]

115. Law of Large Numbers. As membership grew, conformity was inevitable.

I have looked and looked for a liberal board and cannot find a decent one. So until there is one, I will stay here and fight against the centrist, moderate, middle-of-the-roadkill, party over principle Democrats.

[wndycty]

119. Very rich, I have been here since 2001 so don't blame it on the newbies. . .

. . .believe it or not here at DU we are not of one mind. It seems there are at least two opposing opinions in this thread so you claims of conformity are baseless.

[BlooInBloo]

172. Heh. Let the grumpy old people have their fun....

with their "I'm so glad I'm a delta! It must just be beastly to be a gamma!"-kewlkidz-club bullshit.

[Echo In Light]

125. Try Old Elm Tree...small, but fairly progressive/liberal - just keep in mind the US is very....

...rightward leaning in many of the areas its people have been conditioned to perceive "reality" in a very specific, beneficial-to-Power manner.

[snooper2]

110. Code Pink just got their 17 seconds...

:evilgrin:


"we want our country back, we want our economy back, etc.,etc.,"


Didn't hear anything about default credit swaps or the scams involved from the Code Pink folks though. I respect the shit out of them for protesting illegal wars, but this is just goofy.

[wndycty]

112. I missed it. . .

Damn. . .my day is ruined :sarcasm:

[MadBadger]

114. Dont Worry, I see a very Bright pink in the background

[burythehatchet]

121. So after all your shit-stirring and moaning about "disrupting" your educational hearings

you missed it? You missed their 20 second stand up and say what's on the mind of most Americans "disruption"? During the break? How ironic!

:rofl:

[wndycty]

129. Yeah I missed the first disruption, I am not sitting around waiting for them. . .

. . .I had to finish up a report and turned down the sound for a minute. Bet up thread I was told they were just going to sit quietly and observe, I guess whoever told me that got it wrong.

[Bluenorthwest]

123. With due respect to the Founding Fathers

I applaud their efforts and activism, however, was it really necessary to dump all of that tea into the harbor?

[mmonk]

124. You say "with all due respect", yet you show none.

[Mz Pip]

132. The one problem I have with CODE PINK

is the way they present themselves. Maybe I take the anti-war movement too seriously but IMHO dressing up in pink outfits wearing pink feather boas and angel wings sort of trivializes what are very serious issues.

These are serious issues and I don't see them winning anyone over by turning a serious issue into some kind of silly performance art.

Just MHO.

[endarkenment]

136. "Maybe I take the anti-war movement too seriously"

What anti-war movement? There is no anti-war movement.

The only people doing anything that has any effect at all these days are groups like Code Pink, all of whom come under 'impropriety' attacks here for not protesting in some delusional dismissive patronizing concept of an 'acceptable format for protest'.

[Mz Pip]

141. I've been to plenty of anti-war marches in my lifetime

but have at it with the ad hominum attacks if it gives you some feeling of superiority. I have an OPINION. I am entitled to that opinion and I think dressing up in pink feather boas and angel wings is a silly way to get a point across.

One of the most powerful pieces of anti-war art is Picasso's "Guenrica." Art has often been used for political purposes. I just don't think what CODE PINK does is very effective.

[endarkenment]

149. And in the last few years, how many of these proper protests have you been to?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. As am I. My opinion is that the predictable poutrage over improper protest is bullshit.

There is no antiwar movement right now other than the dedicated groups such as Code Pink, IVAW, etc. And every time they act and manage in even a small way to get some national media exposure, they are denounced here by our Protest Propriety Police, who it seems accept no protest that is not cordoned off safely behind metal barricades behaving in an orderly fashion and dispensed with never managing to garner even a second of airtime.

Without political theater that breaks through the cone of silence all we have is corporate media's manufactured reality.

[Mz Pip]

155. And the 'national media exposure'

that Code Pink gets does what exactly?

When the Daily Show makes fun of them I'm not sure they are helping much.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=163653&title=Marines-in-Berkeley

[endarkenment]

169. It disrupts the narrative.

I understand you don't get it.

Marching down the street in an orderly fashion with a permit is a form of protest that only works if you can put truly huge numbers into the streets, and put them there for sustained periods of time. In our atomized suburban society, that rarely happens at all and hasn't happened in any sustained manner that would constitute a mass movement since the end of the vietnam war era draft. That was a long time ago.

One point of a 'protest' must be for the message of the protesters to be heard. Even if their message is distorted, even if Code Pink's message is ridiculed by friends and foes, they are getting their message out. Hardly anyone else is.

[Yukari Yakumo]

198. Except no one bothers to listen to their "message"...

...because they're too busy laughing (literally and metaphorically) at the clowns.

[endarkenment]

208. Which is why, for example, Hoffman had FUCK on his forehead.

And why Code Pink has their message LOUDLY displayed on their clownsuits. While the media asshats are chortling and ridiculing, they are also displaying the images with the message included.

[Yukari Yakumo]

197. Sorry, you lose the argument.

Resorting to strawman questions like "How many of these proper protests have you been to?" is a dead giveaway that you have nothing to refute the points made by the previous poster.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

142. Their Whole Problem Is Their Method And Schtik. No One Who Their Message Is Inteded For Will Be

swayed by them, and are likely to rather shun them, laugh at them, or consider them lunatics. That is a counter-productive outcome. The only ones that listen to their message are the ones already in their 'camp' to begin with, i.e. preaching to the choir. But the choir isn't their audience. The public is. Their actions make it highly unlikely that any member of the overall public would be swayed by them or would want to align themselves with them.

[EFerrari]

175. "Silly performance art" is just as apt a term for these hearings

aired for public consumption, Mz Pip, and not for actual problem solving.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

137. Most Of Them Are Just Attention Whores Who Collectively Have Almost Zero Impact And

if anything, do more to hurt their cause than help it.

[endarkenment]

152. Protesters are attention whores?

duh.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

165. Depends On The Protesters.

In this case the group is code pink, so yes.

[endarkenment]

173. So good protestors should not try to get attention?

[Yukari Yakumo]

196. Depends on what they are trying to draw attention to

Good protests and protesters draw attention to the message.

Bad protests and protesters (i.e. CP) draw attention to themselves.

[BuyingThyme]

147. Code Pink rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

157. Um how can you claim to be a fan but disapprove of what they do??

:wtf:

[arcadian]

159. I applaud what Code Pink does.

At least somebody has the guts to stand up to these corrupt criminal and crooks. Mr. Holder was correct, America is indeed a nation of cowards.

[MadBadger]

160. "Signs DOWN!!!"

[wndycty]

162. My mother and father raised me to respect authority. . .nothing wrong with challenging it though

:kick:

[Vidar]

168. Code Pink consistently displays the courage most of us lack.

[BlooInBloo]

170. They're not as bad as PETA, but they're inching toward being similar.

[endarkenment]

174. The members of the Protest Propriety Police are so predictable.

[Yukari Yakumo]

195. I think they passed PeTA

1. They passed them on the irrelevance scale. That happened in November. Obama is getting the troops out of Iraq, just maybe not in the mad dash like CP wants.

2. They passed them on the annoyance scale ages ago. At least with PeTA, you can laugh at some of their antics. With CP, all any sane person can do is cringe.

[chrisa]

178. In their defense...

They know how to get the media to talk about them.

[Yukari Yakumo]

194. That's a good thing?

Especially if it's only Faux News doing the talking?

[Nye Bevan]

186. They were *hilarious*

The juxtaposition of the sober-suited Ed Liddy with the "pink ladies" flashing their signs and swaying back and forth was highly amusing, as was the spluttering rage of the committee chairman. Funny as hell, but I am sure they didn't change anybody's minds about anything.

[Lost in CT]

188. Au contraire I now believe AIG should get out of Iraq. nt

[Nye Bevan]

189. LOL- and the Ba'athists should lose their retention bonuses (nt)

[rvablue]

199. I finally saw the clips tonight. What they did today was childish and stupid and I'm glad the

chairman told them to sit down and shut up.

Bad timing.

[firedupdem]

200. Where did you see the clips? I'd like to see. Thanks! n/t

[rvablue]

204. Oh god.....don't remember. Watched David Shuster on Countdown, switched over to CNN....???

Wish I could tell you for sure.

It was just a short clip of whomever was chairing the hearing banging his gavel around.

After watching a couple of hours here and there, I can't remember --- sorry!

[firedupdem]

205. That's okay! I missed most of the news today, so I thought there

was a link someplace. No biggie..I'm sure they will surface.

[upi402]

201. Disagree 100%. They are patriots!

:patriot:

[PufPuf23]

202. I like Code Pink

They are brave.

If they get some self pleasure, so be it.

I am anti-war.

[proudpatriot30]

209. We should be doing what code pink is doing

Code pink had every right to be at the hearing because the 1st
amendment of the bill of rights in the Constitution supports
it and the women have every right to do so. What has happened
to the american taxpayers is not just disgraceful but a damn
crime. We expected change in congress in 2009 and we are
getting the same old bullshit on both dem/repub side all over
again. It wasn't bad enough that congress raised their pay by
$4,700 in january but to do nothing to protect the american
taxpayers is beyond fucking insanek. WE THE PEOPLE should be
just like code pink and demand that something be done, not
just sit at home thinking congress, the same congress who
helped caused this mess, is going to do anything to protect
the taxpayers in america. In order for things to change in
america, the PEOPLE must demand that change because the
politicians won't do it for us. The american people need to
start growing a damn spine to fight back because this is
threatening our KIDS and GRANDKIDS, GREAT GRANDKIDS future.