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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 06:57 PM Original message |
for discussion: is anything too important to be left to the vagaries of the market? |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 06:59 PM Response to Original message |
1. Food, shelter, healthcare, etc. The market does okay with Pet Rocks. |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 06:59 PM Response to Original message |
2. only the market itself is too important (too big to fail) |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:04 PM Response to Original message |
3. If by "vagaries of the market" you mean letting consumers buy what they want rather than what a |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:27 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. not quite. I mean more, "letting consumers get what they need, not what's |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:40 PM Response to Reply #5 |
9. Ok but you changed my "what they want" to "what they need". Who determines that, consumers or a |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:57 PM Response to Reply #9 |
12. or an HMO? |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:59 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. OK but it's out of the hands of the patient and decided by central committees based on cost |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 08:08 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. I'd like to hear your preference, then. |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 08:19 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. I wish I had an answer. I'm conscious of problems re whether given limited funds, society benefits |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 08:23 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. is it even the right question to be asking? |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 08:37 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. IMO it's the right question because with any version of socialized medicine, we will have a limited |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 08:58 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. false dichotomy. |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:02 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. We disagree, there is not nearly enough money to fund every medical procedure that people might need |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:08 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. we have enough money to fund the war in Iraq. |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:10 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. Have a good evening. n/t |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:11 PM Response to Reply #17 |
25. RW talking point nonsense. A central planning committee already decides your fate. |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:13 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. "central planning committee already decides your fate". Not in my case. n/t |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:15 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. well hell, who *does* your health insurance? |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 07:32 AM Response to Reply #27 |
31. I'm interested in health care for all, not myself. n/t |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:22 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. So you paid out of pocket? Who do you think approved your doctor's orders? |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 07:32 AM Response to Reply #28 |
32. I'm interested in health care for all, not myself. n/t |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 08:59 AM Response to Reply #17 |
34. No board ever decides that. They decide what procecdures are covered |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 09:20 AM Response to Reply #34 |
35. If you are correct, why would Obama include $1.1 billion for "comparative effectiveness" research in |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 09:40 AM Response to Reply #35 |
36. That will be used to decide which procedures will be covered |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 09:46 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. I understand that's not how it works in UK with its NICE cost-effectiveness threshold. |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 05:29 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. They have the cheapest health care system in the industrialized world |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 06:09 PM Response to Reply #39 |
40. Then your post #34 "anyone needing that procedure gets it" is wrong? n/t |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 08:04 PM Response to Reply #40 |
41. There is a difference between a procedure and a diagnostic test |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 08:37 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. You said "anyone needing that procedure gets it" and that statement is without limits. That means if |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 09:28 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Excuse me, but twice what every other country in the world spends on health care |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 09:36 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. You did however say "anyone needing that procedure gets it" and that's not true. Have a peaceful |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-09-09 07:27 AM Response to Reply #44 |
46. If you don't get the difference between tests, drugs and surgery, this is pointless n/t |
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Chemical Bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 08:58 PM Response to Reply #3 |
43. Single payer health care means that... |
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Deja Q (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
4. 'vulgarities', surely? |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:29 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. well, there's that. |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:28 PM Response to Original message |
6. Adam Smith certainly thought so. He lists transit, among other things. |
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supernova (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:33 PM Response to Original message |
8. The basic functions of life and society |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:46 PM Response to Original message |
10. If you're going to live in modern society... |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 07:56 PM Response to Original message |
11. Everything except cheap Chinese plastic crap. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 08:42 PM Response to Original message |
18. Yes. |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:00 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. socialized eduation? who ever heard of such crap???!!? |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:41 PM Response to Reply #20 |
29. I guess you're right. |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:48 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. it's been comical. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 10:19 AM Response to Reply #30 |
38. Funny how PR affects the juggling, isn't it? |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-07-09 09:04 PM Response to Original message |
22. Of course. Many have been listed already but I didn't see justice among |
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Chemical Bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-08-09 08:43 AM Response to Original message |
33. The vageries of the market can suppliment... |
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