So a 4 month delay on digital TV switch. Guess too many Americans are just too darn ignorant

[RB TexLa]

to join the end of the 20th century after it's over. I thought we were finished pandering to the ignorant.

Guess what. If you went ahead with the switch, I bet even the most ignorant would find someone to get their television working within the four month delay period. I'd go as far as saying with how important television is to them they would have it working pretty quick.

[GodlessBiker]

1. Not really. It's just a different skill set, like shown here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-pD-M0rY4

[RB TexLa]

2. I'll pass on the youtube link

[GodlessBiker]

11. It was on Spike Feresten's show, I think. Pretty funny.

[NOW tense]

3. Either I am ignorant

or I have been evaluating my addiction, and I am wonder if this is my opportunity to have a forced end to it.

[stray cat]

4. Some people don't have money for cable or converters - however is TV a right?

My grandmother is almost housebound - that TV is what keeps her connected to the world

[raccoon]

5. TV is a necessity. How can a government manufacture consent these days without it? nt

[Fireweed247]

63. How can a government manufacture consent these days without it?

exactly! It is also the main tool on our road to Idiocracy.

I haven't watched TV for years (except for Netflix) and I don't miss it. Once people toss the TV the corporate media loses their power.

[bunnies]

17. The government is providing $40.00 vouchers.

Converters can be had for $40.00. http://www.solidsignal.com/dtv2009/?xfermeth=directg&gclid=CPrr2ej3pJgCFQsMGgodFHuJlQ

Whats the problem?

[Fleshdancer]

29. The issue is that the govt ran out of vouchers

If the government told the public they would provide vouchers but then they run out, then it makes sense to delay the switch until they get more vouchers.

With all the billions spent on bailing out companies, it's refreshing to me for the government to care about making good on their promise to the American people...even if it's only for a $40 voucher to pay for a digital converter.

[bunnies]

45. The poster I was replying to said...

that money was the reason for not making the switch. I wasnt referring to the delay. I couldnt care less when they do it.

[marshall]

46. Can't they just print some more?

If they can do it with money they can do it with vouchers.

[MessiahRp]

47. The vouchers represent money that was allocated in the budget for this effort...

New vouchers would go over what was legally appropriated... so unless something new is passed to increase funding, no they can't just print more.

Rp

[bluestateguy]

6. As I remember the original digital conversion was supposed to be in 2006

So it has already been postponed twice.

[onenote]

35. not really -

Congress initially handed off the transition deadline to the FCC in 1996, and in early 1997 the FCC (which previously had thought that fifteen years would be required for the transition) decided tentatively that the transition could be accomplished in ten years. But that was just a tentative conclusion -- the FCC said it would review and reconsider the deadline every two years. Before that first review even occurred, as part of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Congress decided to ratify the December 31, 2006 deadline, but to create a major loophole in it -- namely that the transition would not occur on that date for any markets in which fewer than 85 percent of the households had the capability of receiving digital signals. That "loophole" effectively extended the deadline to a date uncertain. In late 2005/early 2006, having come to the realization that the transition might never occur under the then-applicable standard, Congress bit the bullet and mandated a "hard date" --February 17, 2009. In so doing, Congress actually moved up the deadline.

[SheilaT]

7. Another way to think about this

is to marvel that there are so many old, non digital TVs out there in perfectly good working order.

Thinking ahead to the inevitable day when gasoline is no longer sold, the requirement that everyone buy a new alternative fuel car or have a very expensive retrofit made to their old car is going to involve (among other things) a lot of money.

[dkf]

8. We went through it in Hawaii.

It seems to have gone smoothly. I haven't heard anyone complain.

[KamaAina]

81. What's this? Another kama'aina poster?

:hi:

From what I heard, there was quite a bit of confusion the first day (Jan. 15; they couldn't wait until Feb. 17 because the transmitter site on Maui is in the nesting grounds of the endangered Hawaiian dark-rumped petrel, and "Petra" and her winged suitors will be back on Haleakala by then!), but not a lot of noise since.

I do wonder, though, whether some rural areas that received distant analog VHF signals are getting the UHF digital ones, particularly the Kona side of Hawai'i island (the "Big Island"), which got its analog signals all the way from "Petra"'s love nest on Maui, because Hilo, on the other side of the island, is blocked by the even taller Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa.

[dkf]

83. I guess everyone I know has cable so we were unaffected.

Heck I can't even get FM radio here, much less TV.

I was relying on the media for a report on the situation and after the first day I didn't see a peep, so I'm guessing it went over ok?

[dysfunctional press]

9. it's not ignorance so much as procrastination...

except for texas.

[meegbear]

10. The problem is the misinformation ...

companies like Comcast are running ads that if you're not paying attention, imply that you need cable to receive TV signals.

But I agree you with on this. I wonder what would've happened if we did a dropdown date and switched to metric?

[Owl]

16. True. I know of people who've subscribed to cable thinking that a converter box would not work

with a regular antenna.

[ejpoeta]

53. have they really? the only ads I've see have been saying that if you have

cable/satellite, then you don't have to worry about losing your tv. I personally do not like this idea that I have to get a converter box. I have satellite, but if I wanted to dump the directv and just plug into my antenna, i can't do that anymore. I have to either go buy a new tv, or get a converter box. I resent it.

[napi21]

12. AFAIK it was postponed because the Gov't ran out of $$ to fund

the certificates. Why congress didn't throw a few more $$ into that fund before the money was gone is another question!

[KharmaTrain]

13. There Are Also Major Technical Issues...

The FCC picked Wilmington, NC as a test market and the city switched to DTV last September...it's been a clusterfuck. Digital TV signals work a lot different than analog ones...antennas are critical and many DTV signals were underpowered. Unless you were sitting literally under the station's tower, you weren't assured of getting a reliable signal.

The box program has been a joke. Many stores ran out of boxes...and the ones they sold were cheaply made. Hell, they'd rather sell you a $1,000 wide screen. People weren't educated about the need for a good antenna and amplifier...thus this isn't about ignorance as much as the public being poorly informed. I don't think a delay will do much good, but maybe there will be a method to the madness.

[Arkansas Granny]

33. You are right about the box program. I recently filled out the online application

for a friend. The website said that they were out of coupons and could mail him one later if/when unredeemed coupons were put back into the system. It could take 6 weeks or longer for his coupon to arrive. Then there is the problem of finding the converter boxes in the stores. It took 3 trips to find one of the less expensive boxes when I got mine.

When I tried a converter box earlier this year I could only bring in 4 digital stations. If I wanted to watch an analog station, I had to unhook the converter box and put the rabbit ears back on the tv. I wound up getting a new tv for myself and giving the converter box to another friend with analog only tv. He's still having problems getting stations, however, and probably needs to upgrade his antenna.

Also, if you're not listening closely, you hear many announcements from cable and satellite companies that imply that you will now need to subscribe to their services to get all the channels if you are still using an analog set.

[Ms. Toad]

14. Nothing to do with ignorance.

Got my box. Set it up properly. I'm too far far from the broadcast to receive anything but 5 versions of "All Jesus, All the Time." One PBS station, and ABC - IF I stand directly in front of the TV holding on to both VHF rabbit ears on our antenna which includes the strongest amplifier we can buy.

I've put up with fuzzy over the air analog for years because I don't feel like paying a fortune for TV. Unfortunately, you don't have the option with digital. Either it's there - or it's not. I'm too far away - so it's not. There is a slight possibility that once they switch over and play musical channels (which happens simultaneously with the switch over) that they will also boost the power and I'll be able to get something. Unfortunately, they're not testing that ahead of time so I won't know until February 17 (or whenever the switch happens) whether I will have TV after that date or not.

A four month delay would give me 4 more months of TV that I would otherwise not have (or would have to pay for). I would prefer they not switch at all - and I'll bet others at a significant distance from the broadcasts share the same sentiment.

[DCKit]

19. You may want to try one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=HDTV+antenna

I bought the DB4 (3rd one down) and put it on my balcony. On a good day, I get ~30 stations - and though I get two Spanish language channels, neither of them has Jesus on all the time.

With the coupon, I spent a grand total of $80.

BTW, look for either the Zenith or the Insignia converter box (they're the same). They allow you to change the aspect (blow up) of the picture on most channels to better fit your TV or just your personal taste.

[Ms. Toad]

27. Yeah, replacing our roor antenna is the next option.

The current roof antenna doesn't get us anything more than the rabbit ears with an amplifier and I don't really want to be crawling on the roof in the middle of the winter (on top of which, only one room is wired to the roof antenna).

[Elwood P Dowd]

68. You are right about this DC.

The Zenith works fine, you can change the aspect ratio back to 4/3, and it only costs about fifty bucks. I have an old rooftop antenna that works okay, but a friend got the DB4 and has great reception.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

15. What?

No one's been in here yet to remind everyone that the change to DTV isn't a problem for them, because they don't own a television set?

[shirlden]

18. Not a problem for me

Whatever day they do the change over is the day my rabbit-eared tv gets hauled to the recycle center. I will use the space for another bookcase. Free at last-free at last.

I have teh internets.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[JeffreyWilliamson]

20. That doesn't count. n/t

[SidDithers]

21. Hehehe....

Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television

Cheers,
Sid

[DS1]

24. I was thinking it

:)

[AndrewP]

40. That's because I know it not just about me

There are a lot of people who are not able to afford digital TV's or expanded cable. I hope that they, many being elderly, are not shut out because of not being able to afford this.

I'm a 35 year old guy living on my own going back to school to become a Vet Tech. I have a daughter with medical problems we have to be careful with our money. So I won't be buying anything just to have TV.

So, I completely get the fact that many are in a similar situation, but for them it's not just temporary like it is for me.

I haven't been much of a TV watcher for years, but I do have my 1982 TV that still works just fine. I like the occassional DVD movie. I really don't feel like paying for something I don't need. There must be others that feel the same. Doesn't mean we should be concerned for those that are getting shut out, but not by their choice.

[Fireweed247]

66. I just did

:rofl:

[DS1]

22. Even With the name change, I knew this would be another shit RGBolen thread

[Coventina]

23. Nice. You know, there are a lot of elderly people on fixed incomes

(my grandmother being one of them) who don't have the money for a fancy new TV, or cable.

My husband and I set her up with a converter box, but she's having some trouble understanding it.

I'm sure there are many others out there who don't have family to try and help them. But they're "just ignorant" I suppose. They don't matter....

I love it when right-wing attitudes are expressed on this board....

I, for one, don't understand why the stations can't go on broadcasting in both analog and digital as (from what I understand) they are doing now.

[negativenihil]

30. the point of the switch

...is to free up spectrum for other uses. Possible uses for the old analog tv spectrum could include long distance wireless internet.

This is a good thing people.

[Coventina]

34. Is this "long distance wireless internet" going to be free to the public?

Like the analog tv signals?

[Le Taz Hot]

49. Thank you!

The OP offers no proof of "ignorance" on the part of non-converters merely because Congress has chosen to postpone the switch. Talk about a stretch! That was insulting on so many levels. Perhaps the OP, like so many other Gen Xers, Yers and Nihilers on DU agrees that we should "all just hurry up and die off" (an actual post by a DUer about Boomers). Posts like this make me sick, particularly in a post-Obama world.

[Coventina]

50. You're welcome!

:hug:

[guitar man]

55. the reason we can't go on

One of the biggest reasons we can't go on broadcasting in both analog and digital is cost. I have done some informal polling of other station managers in my market and found that the cost of running an analog transmitter ranges from $30k to $70k per month depending on the station, how much power they are putting out etc. etc. Electricity costs alone can range from $10k to over $20k for each transmitter monthly.

Now if you multiply those costs by 2 since each station is running two transmitters, analog and digital, it adds up to some pretty staggering numbers just to keep operating the transmitter sites on an annual basis. It is true that the digital transmitters seem to be more energy efficient so far, so the electric bill portion of the costs may be less, but stuff like site rent, tower rent, maintenence etc etc all add up to pretty similar costs for each of the sites.

This conversion has cost the stations and station group operators untold millions nationwide to accomplish, the build-outs on the new transmitters alone has been staggering. It's not something we had a choice in, it's something we were told to do if we wanted to keep operating under our licenses. I know that the station group I work for has not received one red cent from the government to accomplish this transition, the outlay for it has all been on us.

In the meantime, advertising rates have plummeted. I see the numbers run across my desk every day and it's not pretty. We have had to reduce our staff size, freeze wages and cut benefits over the last few years just to keep operating. Believe me, "free" broadcast TV is anything but free from this side of the fence.
:(

<edit typo>

[Coventina]

59. Thank you for the inside information.

What you say makes perfect sense, it was simply something I didn't have information on.

From your post, I can see that TV stations can't run both types of broadcast (long term) due to cost.

I can also understand the benefits of "going digital".

But it's tough for those of us who don't have the disposable income (especially NOW!) to upgrade our hardware.

As I mentioned in my previous post, my husband & I are helping my grandmother through this. As for ourselves, we can't afford cable or satellite or new television sets. We bought a converter box, but we get almost no good reception on it. As another poster said upthread, you either get a good signal or nothing at all.

It's frustrating in the extreme.

I don't have any profound answers, but I do resent the OP's premise that those of us who aren't thrilled by this are "ignorant."

[guitar man]

71. your welcome

thanks for the thoughtful response, I have been flamed before for suggesting that it costs a lot of money to operate a broadcast facility. :scared:

As far as the signal goes, don't give up hope yet. As of now, there are still two sets of signals competing for the same bandwidth and most stations haven't really ramped up the power yet on the digital side. Even if you call a station ad the operator tells you "our digital tx is at 100%" that doesn't mean that's all the power it will ever put out. A number of the build-outs aren't finished and won't be finished until after the analog cutoff frees up funds to add more cabinets (tubes) to the transmitters. A one tube transmitter at 100% and a three tube transmitter at 100% are two different animals in the power output realm. In addition, many repeater/translator stations still have to be switched too.

So hang in there, it took us well over 60 years to build the infrastructure for NTSC analog TV to where it wound up, ATSC digital might not happen overnight, but it will happen. :hi:

[Coventina]

77. Sadly, it seems to be the MO around here to flame first

and be educated later.

(I've been guilty of this myself, I will freely admit).

Many years ago, when I was a church-going person, one of the guys in my church was the owner/general manager of our local ABC affiliate, and he was not a rich man by any means. I never discussed financials with him (I was a teenager/young adult and he was much older). But from the conversations I did have with him it was clear that the television business is not THAT lucrative (from the local broadcasting standpoint), at least, not in our market.

So I completely believe you that this transition has been a real hardship on stations, which is something I hadn't thought about before.

And, as you point out, the recession makes it even harder.

As Red Green says, "I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together!"

:hi:

[guitar man]

78. thank you!

Absolutely true. The big networks etc. can be making money hand over fist, but the margins that the station groups and individual stations that actually do the work of getting the signal out of that big tower, through the air and to your tv are all too often razor thin. Lately, we've been diving into the red and have been left gasping for air. :(

[ieoeja]

72. Question for the insider (you): will you transition Feb 17th anyway?

I would think delaying it this close to the deadline would just cause you more headaches and possibly *costs*.

[guitar man]

76. yes

unless there is a change mandating that our analog stay on past 2-17, the word from the big office is that we're pulling the plug 2-17. That's providing the poor old thing doesn't go up in a puff of smoke before then,lol

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. So it's okay with you for some Americans to not be able to watch TV anymore?

I think the whole digital TV thing is a crock. The TV airways should be free and available to all Americans.

[RB TexLa]

32. the digital broadcasts will still be free and available to all.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Only if they have a converter

[RB TexLa]

42. Right now it's only if you have a TV.

You still have to buy something to see it.

Of couse depending on when one's TV was built they may or may not need a converter.

[roody]

26. So many of us said, "So what, there is so little worth

watching, I'll stop altogether." Can't let us free ourselves.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

28. What 4 month delay?

No mention of it here: http://www.dtv.gov/index.html

[Starry Messenger]

31. Don't go changing...

[newportdadde]

36. This whole conversion just helps big corporations make private money off public airwaves.

Who cares if they have to wait 4 months.

[mitchum]

37. Agreed...Dr Pavlov's dogs should be able to go get their own bowl

[onenote]

39. Lots of good reasons for a delay

A delay won't be a panacea -- there will be problems whenever it occurs. But a delay at this point makes sense for both practical and political reasons.

Practical:
The box problem: as noted, the converter coupon program effectively ran out of money a few weeks ago, causing delays and confusion in the ability of consumers to get the coupons and get boxes; there also are serious concerns that there will be shortages in the number of boxes available.

The signal reception problem: The coverage area of digital signals does not always match the coverage area of the analog signal and viewers are finding that they need to obtain new antennas or reorient their old antennas. This bit of information wasn't adequately conveyed by the government's "education" programs and many viewers haven't understood that they can and should start using their converters now and not wait until Feb 17 so that they can determine if they need to take action to improve their reception. And given that February isn't the best time to have people climbing on roofs to adjust their antennas, a delay until Spring may actually save some lives.

The call center problem: the FCC only recently awarded contracts for the staffing of call centers to answer questions about the transition. When the "early transition" occurred in Wilmington, thousands of calls were received from confused viewers. Extrapolating that to the nationwide changeover, it is likely that over a million people will try to call the FCC on one day. Working out a viable plan for handling calls is critical. As one of the current FCC Commissioners recently noted, he was shocked to find out that the call centers currently in operation only were being staffed during regular business hours and not at all on weekends.

The political issue: the problems that are occurring are largely the result of mismanagement of the transition under a repub administration. But when the transition occurs, whether its in February or June, no one is going to blame the repubs. They're going to blame those who are in power at the time, particularly if they have made no effort to fix the problems. So even if things are still screwed up in June, you have the political cover of having at least tried to do something and the argument that it would've been even worse. Also, from a political perspective, the Democrats in Congress want to go home during the President's Day recess and present themselves to their constituents and to editorial boards etc as a "can do" Congress that has already started tackling the problems facing the country as a result of bush's reign of error. They won't be able to do that if all they are doing is answering questions about how screwed up the transition is going to be the day after President's Day.

Why do you think repubs oppose extending the transition and Demcorats favor it? Because the repubs understand that it will be a political stumble for the Democrats if nothing is done to try to delay and fix (even minimally) the problems with the transition.

[Coventina]

41. Excellent points! I wish I could recommend your post.

And "derecommend" the OP.

[Uzybone]

43. What are you talking about? It's not been delayed

do you have a link?

[dweller]

48. here ya go

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gFQTV6u7aQ_ujqqX5bFP5QPRIVgAD95SJ1K09


dp

[Uzybone]

60. Thank you very much

thats a bummer, I really hope its not delayed.

[Renew Deal]

44. Now that's ignorant!

To characterize people as "ignorant" when the program was flawed in the first place is ignorant. The time frame was way too short. There weren't nearly enough funds provided and the program ran out of money. The communication was terrible. How many days did Bush get his face out there urging people to move on this? 0 It was scheduled for just after the inauguration of a new president which is dumb because it needs higher level attention. And besides that, it costs money to make this switch. Money which many people don't have. Hopefully Obama can get out ahead of this to help get it done.

[notadmblnd]

51. Wow! Someone really likes their TV

I really haven't given it much thought and don't care one way or the other.

[RB TexLa]

52. It was in the paper this morning.

[PVnRT]

54. The switch is delayed because of funding shortfalls for the voucher program

Not that I expect you to actually get details right about anything, of course.

[LanternWaste]

56. Television seems to be a big deal to you...

Television seems to be a big deal to you... but I completely understand-- it's the New & Improved Opiate of the Masses, and I imagine that getting a stronger fix for the monkey is pretty important to a lot of people.

[RB TexLa]

57. No, it's not.

[LanternWaste]

61. I think it is...

I think it is...

[RB TexLa]

62. Oh, I see. You're saying that to insult and degrade, like a child on a playground.

Maybe someone will "five high" you for your little insult.

[LanternWaste]

64. I wish it was an insult-- just an observation.

"Maybe someone will "five high" you for your little insult." I doubt it.

I wish it was an insult-- but alas, it's merely an extrapolation.

But, if it makes you feel better validated, please feel free to reply with a pithy, clever or witty retort-- I'll make no more extrapolations about your frustration with the general public's television viewing habits...

[RB TexLa]

75. I know, I mean the nerve of someone to think they know themselves better than you do.

How anyone could think that. You must have to deal with people thinking they know themselves better than you know them all the time. It must be horrible for you to have people thinking they could know themselves better than you. I feel for you and the pain it must put you through to have people think like this.

[rvablue]

65. I can't stand people who think they are SO evolved because they choose

not to watch TV.

I watch a lot. And I'm probably just as informed, intelligent, enlightened and involved as you are.

It's funny that you think you insulted someone by saying TV is so important to them. It's important to me. And guess what? You are not one iota better of a person than me because you CHOOSE not to watch it.

[LanternWaste]

69. I watch television too.

I watch television too. But I don't allow myself to get frustrated by a perceived lack of technology, and find that those who do allow themselves to get frustrated by it probably place too high a priority on it.

For my part, I don't think I'm any better or any worse than anyone else. Or any more or any less evolved.

[Spider Jerusalem]

82. Television viewing is a passive activity.

It makes you slow and stupid, and studies have shown that more time spent watching television correlates with an increased risk of dementia and cognitive impairment in later life.

[northernlights]

58. I'm so ignorant

I decided that I was getting heartburn watching McGloughlin group after he started drooling over the rw megamouth monica. So I stopped watching.

I was constantly annoyed by the unbelievably stooopid interview questions by Gwen Ifill. So I stopped watching.

I sortof watch a couple shows on Monday and Tuesday night, but really the time is better spent studying.

I can't see going out of my way to listen to a hour of unbelievably fake, canned laughter at total inanity.

The only thing I watch worth watching is the weather report. I can get that off the internet.

[a la izquierda]

67. I just hate the commercials.

They're really sort of annoying.
But forcing this on people doesn't seem right.

[smalll]

70. In other words, what you're saying is ....

I don't watch TV with YOU!

Seriously, there are a lot of problems with this switch-over, as many have already mentioned in this thread:
1)The government has run out of money for converter-box coupons.
2)The coupons themselves have a relatively unforgiving expiration date.
3)Quite importantly, people who don't live very close to the broadcast towers have discovered that channels they used to be able to watch with some static will now not come through at all on digital.
And 4) The whole thing has been set up assuming that all Americans go out and buy new TVs every couple of years or so. I have a family member, for example, who has a perfectly good TV that they bought only six years ago. Guess what, that's not good enough! Despite America's reputation for being an extravagant, throw-away consumer culture, there ARE many Americans (thank god) who DON'T go out and replace perfectly good appliances every couple years just to keep up with the Joneses' big-screen/plasma/HD obsessions.

[undeterred]

73. Well, Texan.

I am glad for the delay because I have been underemployed or unemployed for most of the last two years and I cannot afford to go out and buy a television or even a converter box right now. I am sure there are millions of people in the same situation. Since you're such a smart and wonderful person, why don't you buy me a new television?

Think of it as your ministry to the "ignorant", you smug judgmental Texas asshole.

[Javaman]

74. You still use a TV? Now THAT is soooo 20th century.

I refuse to be a slave to technology...as I write this from my computer. LOL

[otohara]

79. Snotty Comment

I have my little TV in the kitchen to watch the news & PBS while cooking or cleaning. When I bought the converter box, I received two channels. Then I found out, I had to go buy an antenna - Ignorant me, I thought the whole reason was to shed the antenna. Not so, now I have a bigger one and still the picture will go in and out unless I move the damn antenna around my tiny kitchen counter.

Older folks will surely go nuts if they encounter the same problems I have and it will take time for them to get used to a new remote.

I thought I'd be spending $20+ dollars and it turned out to be $50.

Then there's the issue of running out of coupons for those on fixed incomes.

Is there a major problem with moving this? No, there is not.

[Algorem]

80. Australia:2013 Bulgaria:2012 Brazil:2016 Canada:2011 China:2015

Australia:2013
Bulgaria:2012
Brazil:2016
Canada:2011
China:2015
Croatia:2010
Czech Republic:2012
Denmark:October:2009
France:2011
Greece:2011
Hong Kong:2012
Hungary:2010-2013
Ireland:2012
Italy:2012
Japan:2011
Mexico:2021
Malaysia:2015
New Zealand:2013-2015
Norway:end of 2009
Poland:2012 or 2014
Portugal: 2012
Philippines:2015
Russia:2015
Slovakia:2012
Slovenia:2010
South Africa:2011
South Korea:2012
Spain:2010
Ukraine:2015
United Kingdom:2012