What is your opinion of UFOs?

[redqueen]

Poll question: What is your opinion of UFOs?

I accidentally recorded an episode of Larry King Live that aired on New Year's Eve (it was labeled as something else), just watched it and was curious to find out what DUers think.

One person on the program threw out a statistic that 50-60% of Americans believe we're being visited by extra terrestrials, King cited the most recent AP poll which showed that only 14% of Americans said they'd seen one, and only 34% believed in UFOs.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. I believe there are flying crafts that people cannot always identify.

I am reluctant to assign them an origin, however.

[IDemo]

2. I believe intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe

But I don't believe they would be inclined to climb into intergalactic SUV's to go play cat and mouse with other beings in the neighborhood.

[azmouse]

Especially when the neighborhood is billions of miles wide!

[Warren Stupidity]

18. That seems logical however

SETI has come up with nothing so far, which means that the probability distribution of technologically advanced civilizations over space and time is a lot lower than the original estimates. Technological civilizations (or more precisely civilizations that leak radio signals in sufficient quantity to be detected by SETI) appear to be rare.

They could be rare enough such that the probability of any being near enough to ours in time and space is near zero, which would mean that effectively we are alone in our own little time and space bubble. Not a happy thought, but perhaps a realistic one.

[poiuytsister]

30. Maybe other intelligent life forms just don't want to talk to US.

They have Earth on their ignore list. Which maybe what makes them intelligent.

[Warren Stupidity]

52. SETI just looks for radio signals

it is possible that advanced civilizations only leak radio signals for a very brief moment in time, invalidating a core assumption behind SETI. That is a better and more optimistic theory.

[JuniperLea]

279. Or they have some other means...

Completely out of our realm of knowledge.

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. Civilizations "on the ignore list" are still aware of the people ignoring them.

No one within 100 light years of us that could miss our noise. Terrestrial radio leakage is detectable with OUR current technology at 300 light years.

We're alone.

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/press/2007/pr200701.html

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

100. Actually that's not true.

First off, we didn't have radios 300 years ago, so nothing is detectable at 300 LY. Second, newer modeling actually suggests we're a lot less visible than we used to think, with only our strongest radio signals being detectable at more than a few light-years.

Third, the galaxy is 100,000 light-years wide.

[Warren Stupidity]

244. Civilizations 100,000 LY away effectively don't exist.

Even if we could detect them, communication is effectively impossible.

[JuniperLea]

282. Impossible by our standards...

Based on what we know.

What about something based on what we don't have a clue about?

[Selatius]

300. That's the rub. Our technology is simply too primitive and crude to answer the question.

If we could master faster-than-light methods of travel, we could jump to the stars and explore, but it could take centuries if not a thousand years for humans to develop such technology.

[sammythecat]

259. 300 light years doesn't even get us to the end of the block.

The galaxy we live in is 100,000 light years in diameter, and it's but one of around 10 billion galaxies in the observable universe.

I don't think of SETI as any kind of all-encompassing and exhaustive search either. They're just making their best guess as to what frequencies to search and what directions to scan. They're more likely to miss something than spot something. It's just the best we can do right now. There could be perfectly intelligible signals that were aimed straight at us for the last ten thousand years, but if the source is eleven thousand light years away we'd have to wait another thousand years to receive it.

SETI is our first primitive attempt to listen for others and we've only been at it for less than 50 years. I think it's a little too soon to throw in the towel.

[JuniperLea]

280. Perhaps they know of another means we know nothing about... eom

[hfojvt]

287. but terrestrial radio leakage won't reach 300 light years until 2200 A.D.

But yeah, even 20 light years is a long way to go without some kind of FTL technology that we are not even sure can exist. Might as well imagine that they are inter-dimensional or time travellers as galactic visitors.

[IDemo]

31. The thing about SETI I don't quite get

Our radio and TV transmissions won't be decipherable too far past the outer reaches of the solar system.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89700174
When Lucy's signal first left Earth in 1951, it was much, much louder than the hum of background radiation. But the farther waves go, the weaker they become. So while the signal may travel forever outward, Impey says, it eventually will become impossible to detect. Impey can't imagine an intelligence so subtle, so technologically savvy, that it could pluck an electromagnetic wave from the hum of the universe itself. So at some point, Lucy will disappear.

So how far has she gotten? Impey does some back-of-the-hand calculations and guesses she becomes undetectable "not too far beyond the edge of our solar system."

Which means an intelligent alien would have to be hovering pretty close to catch all the noises we've been making on radio and TV for the last century.

Unless extraterrestrials are blasting radio waves in our direction at an extraordinarily high energy level (and even at that, not from too many light years away), it seems unlikely we would detect anyone else's "I Love Alien Lucy", either.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. You don't need to tune in I Love Lucy

you need to detect radio signals that are not accountable as background radiation or known black holes or other understood natural sources.

[IDemo]

71. It's not that we need to detect Cosmic Lucy

but that any intelligent signal may be too washed out against background radiation after too long; again, unless they're relatively nearby and the signal is very strong. It's the distance cubed thing.

[Warren Stupidity]

72. That is why the data processing requirements are enormous

it seems it is possible to detect very slight differences from the normal background noise. But indeed past a certain distance, for many reasons, it really doesn't matter if there are civilizations out even if we could detect them.

[Harry Monroe]

89. Its probably just as well that the farther the signals travel, the harder they are to detect

Just think of all the utter shit we have beamed out from this planet via television and radio since the 1930's. It may be that the signals have been detected, but alien life forms have determined from our radio/television junk that we are not intelligent enough to talk to. We also may very well be on their watch lists; they may one day determine that we are too dangerous to continue as a species.

Edited for grammar/missing word(s). My mind is mushy today

[Raksha]

109. Especially if they happen to catch Rush Limbaugh

and the other RW squawk radio shows. Good reason to restore the Fairness Doctrine...we're enough of a cosmic embarrassment as it is!

Re Just think of all the utter shit we have beamed out from this planet via television and radio since the 1930's. It may be that the signals have been detected, but alien life forms have determined from our radio/television junk that we are not intelligent enough to talk to.

[pl259]

112. Your point's well taken but the bigger obstacle is that there are so few potential targets within

a few hundred, let alone a few dozen light years. There's no reason an electromagnetic transmission can't go halfway across the universe, indeed we see quasars that sent out their light a billion years ago - any civilizations that may have existed in their vicinities have surely gone long extinct...and likewise our own transmissions however detectable they might be from a thousand LY away won't be seen until we too are unremembered bits of the distant past. The distances involved and the value of c are the true inhibitions to long-distance communication. I think.

[Canuckistanian]

157. It's not likel;y our TV signals will get any attention

They're powerful, but not aimed into space.

However, signals such as the Russian "Woodpecker Radar" or Deep Space Network signals, used to reach interplanetary craft would be far greater candidates for distant reception.

I still wonder about the Electro-Magnetic pulses that were generated by all those nuclear tests. THOSE would probably get some far-off observers wondering.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

238. Right, SETI looks for really powerful broadcasts directed at us.

From hypothetical civilizations straight out of Star Trek.

That's all well and good. The problem is that people dismiss the notion of alien life because SETI hasn't found anything yet.

[Warren Stupidity]

245. no - at least that is not what I am saying

I'm fine with the concept that there are other technologically advanced civs out there - it is just that they are so rare in time and space that we aren't ever going to run into them, otherwise we already would have. Until somebody coughs up an alien, or until SETI finds evidence of nearby civs - we are effectively alone.

[JuniperLea]

284. Yep...

Based on the tiny bit of knowledge we have, which is minuscule.

No aliens have landed in my backyard, and I can't figure out how they might exist, so they don't.

Brilliant.

[Bandit]

39. We have been studying the stars for well over a hundred years now and

just in the last couple discovered other planets...

[Warren Stupidity]

54. And new tools may revise current understanding

the problem is that with the data at hand, it seems clear that radio signal leaking civilizations are not particularly common. If we develop new technologies that can locate distant civilizations using other methods, and those tools start having interesting results, then indeed it would be time to re-evaluate. Until then I'll stick with 'technologically advanced civilizations are rare enough in the universe to make our existence here a solitary experience'.

[JuniperLea]

285. "with the data at hand"

Which could easily be woefully inadequate.

I don't think we know enough to make a determination one way or the other. They could be dealing with communications and travel way out of our realm of understanding.

[Lorien]

58. We can't converse with dolphins or any other species

in their own "language", so why should we expect to converse with a non terrestrial species?

[Warren Stupidity]

61. SETI isn't about having a conversation

it is about detecting that they are talking. We know dolphins talk even if we can't understand what they are saying. The science of SETI is sound, the results are somewhat disappointing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

239. Because dolphins aren't all that intelligent.

:shrug:

[Cetacea]

261. Impossible to say if they are more or less at this point.

Though it's probably fair to say that they have learned more of our language than we theirs, despite our technology.

Research is limited because their environment is so alien to ours. The navy is probably in the best position to further our knowledge regarding dolphin/whale intelligence but do not release their findings to the public.

In any event our record of behavoir towards them is shameful, especially considering how many human lives have been saved by dolphins. If there are aliens from other planets and they show themselves and do not look anything like us we might just harpoon them.

[redqueen]

138. Interestingly, the senior astronomer for SETI was on the King show as a skeptic. (nt)

[Kaleko]

248. If he acknowledges the fact that "they" are here,

he and his crew will be out of a job and the money to fund the SETI project will be cut.

Talk about vested interest...

[Warren Stupidity]

249. yeah that must be it

or perhaps the data that SETI has accumulated over the last 25 years or so indicates that technological civilizations are pretty rare and there probably aren't any nearby that could provide these aliens that you seem to believe are here.

[Kaleko]

255. See my post # 183

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4763728&mesg_id=4767817

Either hundreds of military and government critics are delusional or they are lying about their close encounters with E.T.s.

Watch the videos, do some research, find out if these witnesses are credible. Then consider that whistleblower officials exist in just about every country on earth right now.

[awoke_in_2003]

337. A scientist being skeptical?

How is that unusual?

[Orrex]

3. I'd like an 'Other' option, to be honest--a variation on Option #2

It seems to me that UFOs are likely misidentifications of conventional aircraft or phenomena, with perhaps a small number of unrecognized experimental aircraft thrown in. Meteors also probably account for at least some sightings.

Even that latter possibility seems a bit of a stretch except in certain areas where such aircraft are likely to be flown.


In any case, I don't think that they're extraterrestrial vehicles, but I don't think that they're all experimental craft, either.

[redqueen]

33. I shouldn't make polls.

:P

[Orrex]

43. Nah, you're doing fine!

You just shouldn't let smart-asses reply to your polls! :evilgrin:

[awoke_in_2003]

338. without smart asses...

the world would be a boring place.

[LostinVA]

140. Exactly how I feel/believe, too!

[FogerRox]

216. When one lands on your neighbors front lawn

It kinda takes the misidentification of conventional aircraft, and tosses it right out the window.

[cboy4]

4. I don't believe aircraft, such as the stealth fighter -- that were

tested before the general public knew it existed - falls under the true classification of a UFO.

In my opinion, a UFO is what most people think is something from another planet or star.

If a Cessna is flying around at night without strobes, is that a UFO because people can't positively identify it?

[redqueen]

9. Yes. That is the definition of the term.

Unidentified Flying Object. Some kind of flying object that you cannot identify.

[cboy4]

25. Alright, well under that definition, you'd have to be an imbecile

to not believe in UFO's, right?

Someone flying a kite at night, someone flying a model airplane in the darkness.

I don't get the purpose of the poll if you're not trying to distinguish between people who acknowledge the so called Cessna without lights and night and the flying saucer.

[redqueen]

28. Good point.

I'll edit the wording again.

Sheesh.

[Kalyke]

16. Uhhh.... that's in the name the acronym stands for:

Unidentified Flying Object.

A Cessna flying around at night without strobes can be a UFO because it's UNIDENTIFIED. It's FLYING and it's definitely an OBJECT.


:shrug:

[cboy4]

264. Yea, no shite.

I'm asking why would anyone ask if folks believe in something everyone, unless you have infared eyes, cannot identify in the darkness?

[Realityhack]

217. Yes.

That is exactly what a UFO is. It is something flying that is unidentified.
Sometimes they get identified. Sometimes not.

If you want to talk about 'alien craft' then say 'alien craft'.

[cboy4]

265. Tell that to the person who's conducting the poll.

I know what the differences are.

[redqueen]

310. Uh, so do I... I had just watched the show, and was thinking of THEIR wording

when I wrote the stupid options.

KING: Our latest Associated Press poll shows 14 percent of Americans claim they've seen a UFO and 34 percent say they believe in UFOs.

Mea culpa for not taking the subject of what was supposed to be a light-hearted poll as seriously as some others seem to.

[Selatius]

301. To answer your question, yes. The unidentified cessna would be classified as a "UFO"

If you want to talk about things that are not built by humans but some other race on another planet, I would call those ETVs, extra-terrestrial vehicles.

[Kip Humphrey]

5. I believe most UFOs are plasma emissions steered by magnetic lines of earth's magnetosphere

The rest are weather balloons, aircraft, and surface lights bouncing off atmospheric heat inversions and atmospheric ice crystals. Interesting how plasma interaction with oxygen produces a shimmering metallic light at the plasma boundary.

[skepticscott]

24. Quite a few are astronomical bodies

in particular, bright planets that are close to the horizon. Quite a few people have reported what were later determined to be planets as UFOs (or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, the hipper and more modern term), and have reported that the "objects" actually followed their vehicles as they were driving. Not surprising, since a planet is so far away that it seems to maintain a relatively constant position to a moving object on earth. Meteors and spacecraft also account for some reports.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

242. I once thought the moon was a UFO.

In my defense, there were some unusual clouds obscuring it at the time.

[druidity33]

135. The Dragon lines/Ley lines? nt

[BlooInBloo]

6. Religious crackpots, sci-fi crackpots. Same thing, different clothing. All willing nothingness.

[redqueen]

12. That's option 5. (nt)

[PassingFair]

51. Sounds like a serious answer to me. n/t

[redqueen]

116. "Crackpot" is not a civil term. (nt)

[onehandle]

7. The resources it would take to travel intergalactically would be a waste.

If you had the technology to do so, you would be so far ahead that it would simply be a waste of time.

It would either take decades... centuries to do the actual travel based on our laws of physics.

And if you did figure out how to solve the faster than light problem, you would have associated technologies to make your world a paradise.


No little green men have been here. I choose the first and second choices in the poll.

[Duer 157099]

132. At least according to the knowledge our species has gained so far

And remember, it wasn't but a mere few cententia ago that the credible scientists of the day believed the earth to be a flat plane.

We are *so* arrogant a species.

Why is it so hard for people to say "maybe" and "I don't know"???

[awoke_in_2003]

339. Of course not...

everyone knows they are grey :)

[WeDidIt]

8. Other

I don't believe UFOs are real. PEople are seeing what they want to see.

[redqueen]

10. That's option 1. (nt)

[defendandprotect]

80. Including two presidents and a number of astronauts . . ?

[flvegan]

11. You watched Larry King? I think aliens have abducted you, my dear redqueen.

hee hee, I kid.

I think it's silly to think we're the only living community out there in that vast universe. Do I think we're being visited by other beings in spacecraft? I don't know. Tell you what, if one crashed in Times Square in plain view and created absolute evidence, I'd not be surprised.

[redqueen]

15. Hehehe...

I was half asleep and intrigued... I remember that France's space agency had recently released a bunch of previously classified documentation of their research into the subject, and thought it might be discussed.

It wasn't. Well, not really... it did get a brief mention.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. its bullshit

until somebody coughs up an alien and a spaceship it is simply bullshit

[redqueen]

17. Another vote for #5. (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

19. uh no that would be #1

its bullshit - people are seeing things or lying or both

[WeDidIt]

20. Nope, it's not answer #1

Answer #1 implies hallucinations.

I believe people are really seeing something, but it is not what they *think* they are seeing.

[redqueen]

22. My wording was poor... I didn't intend to imply

that people were hallucinating.

I've edited it now... thanks for pointing that out.

[redqueen]

21. No I made option 5 for people who either refused to be civil

or who were incapable of being civil... as well as those who like a schoolyard bully can't resist taunting people who don't agree with them.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. too bad for you - I get to vote as I see it

"I don't believe UFO's are real, people are seeing things." i.e. it's bullshit.

[redqueen]

26. Not really... it's hardly a big deal.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if most of the people I created that option for refused to use it. Not one bit.

[onehandle]

34. I answered seriously in my post #7, but my gut reflects Warren's answer.

And I'd like to add that many people who see UFOs are simply liars looking for money or attention.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. There are no space aliens. Why is that observation uncivil? n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

69. not just uncivil, 'childish smartass'.

Actually I guess I have to admit to the latter. I proudly stand with that other notoriously childish smartass, the kid who had the nerve to point out that the emperor had no clothes.

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. I guess since I don't believe in unicorns, I must be a childish smartass.

I can live with that.

[BlooInBloo]

76. Looks like you have a proper understanding of the people you're dealing with.

[dorkulon]

154. How dare you oppress the unicorn community like that?

you anti-unicorn bigot! You're just a tool of the horse lobby!

[redqueen]

137. Did he use curse words? (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

161. jesus fucking christ

now that is a blasphemous curse word. Bullshit is not.

[redqueen]

165. Why are you bringing blasphemy into this?

One does not need to be blasphemous to be uncivil.

[Warren Stupidity]

172. Are we like in elementary school?

I'm calling bullshit on your bullshit: it's bullshit. Grow up.

[redqueen]

173. Oh, the irony. (nt)

[redqueen]

136. Do you seriously not see how "bullshit" is not civil?

Really?

[Warren Stupidity]

160. bullshit is highly descriptive

and quite civil. In fact I find it to be my civic duty to call bullshit when I see it and expect you all to do the same. I don't expect you to mince words either, no 'horseplucky' or 'balderdash': out with it, straight up, plain old anglo-saxon it is, no coy latin crap, just come right out and call 'bullshit'. It is the only civil thing to do.

[redqueen]

168. Perhaps these days words like "bullshit" are considered part of civil discourse.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

It's neither here nor there. I don't know why you're being so defensive about it.

[Warren Stupidity]

174. oh for fuck sake

I let this die and you took it up again so I responded to your renewed attacks on my civility. I'm defending my actions because you are attacking them. What a load. If you don't want to discuss just how uncivil noting that total bullshit is bullshit is, I suggest you stop discussing it.

Yeah maybe you are old fashioned. And maybe UFO spaceships and aliens are total bullshit. Only maybe though. Probability less than 1, but only slightly less.

[redqueen]

175. Attacking?

:wtf:

[Warren Stupidity]

176. At 9:17 after hours of silence

you pipe up with "Do you seriously not see how "bullshit" is not civil? Really?". Then when I respond to your renewed attacks on my civility you play that ancient passive aggressive game: "why are you being so defensive". You restarted this long after I just let it go.

Gotta go now, my cat just got abducted by dog like aliens from the planet sirius.

[redqueen]

179. I didn't "restart" it... I was busy... I didn't see your response till then.

Why does that matter?

I still don't get how you're interpreting my seeking to defend my point of view and understand yours is in any way an "attack".

I truly find it puzzling that there was any grey area in the matter. It seems patently obvious to me that "bullshit" is not civil. Obviously you disagree.

Even the way you phrased that last response seems defensive to me... "You restarted this long after I just let it go."

I didn't "restart" anything... I was gone for a while, and I just responded when I got back.

The response wasn't even to one of your posts... geezafrickinloo.

[JuniperLea]

286. You had every opportunity NOT to respond...

Don't blame the continence of your bullshit posts on redqueen.

[lumberjack_jeff]

198. You "made option 5 for those who refuse to be civil"

... every other option is written to concede that flying saucers may exist. Push poll much?

Do you prefer "gibberish"?

[redqueen]

201. How are they written to concede that?

Because they're not written as absolutes?

And no, I don't prefer "gibberish". Is that your attempt to start an argument? Picking on my ability to construct poll options?

I admitted to people with more ability to engage in civil conversation above that I'm not the best at constructing polls.

I honestly had no idea that some people would get so bent out of shape about this. It was supposed to be light-hearted.

[frogmarch]

14. I don't believe that

any UFOs are extraterrestrial in origin, but at the same time I don't believe that all UFO sightings are hoaxes. Some sightings are of objects that the viewers simply can't identify.

[skepticscott]

27. #6

Most reports of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena are real, but there is no convincing evidence that any of them are extraterrestrial spacecraft.

[Smith_3]

29. Definition of UFO: Unidentified Flying Object.

So yes, UFOs "are real". Are they extraterrestrial? No.

[Bonhomme Richard]

32. I believe they are unidentified. n/t

[Tutonic]

35. can't imagine that any other civilization or group would visit earth

for thousands of years and not more clearly explain what they're doing here. More likely explainable events-weather balloons, experimental craft, etc.

[awoke_in_2003]

341. I know what they are doing...

they are inserting the souls of evil aliens into people (via anal probes) to drive the Scientologists crazy.

[leftofthedial]

36. I don't know what they are, but

they are not all explainable.

[Rosco T.]

37. I defer to the words of Ellie Arroway in 'Contact' ---

"I'll tell you one thing about the universe, though. The universe is a pretty big place. It's bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before. So if it's just us... seems like an awful waste of space. Right?"

[begin_within]

46. Great book and film.

[Rosco T.]

38. stuttering mouse

(delete)

[MrsBrady]

40. my husband's friend

who lived in AZ at the time that "thing" with all the lights about 10 years ago...
the one that several thousand people reported seeing...cops, regular folks, etc....
...it went right over his neighborhood. I think even I've seen several shows about it on TV.
Anyhow, "Bob" swears that he saw it, and so do others...and there is even video tape of it.
He and others saw the actual object, and not just the lights....
apparently it was huge.
He even saw military planes scrambling right as it disappeared into the night.
He called my husband right after it happened, freaked out. I hear this story all the time from both of them.

However, I am highly skeptical that it would be extra terrestrial.
I think it is either some military project or something of that nature.
Or maybe there are still things we just don't know about (you mean we don't know everything? "smirk")

Now I know Bob saw something, but I'm just not convinced it would be extra terrestrial.
But I am convinced that we just have absolutely no idea what it was, so I cannot even really begin to say what it was when we have no idea.

[redqueen]

142. One of the guests on the second panel, James Fox,

was talking about that incident. He said he was about to uncover new footage of it. I figure he's referring to this new documentary he's finishing up.

[Bjorn Against]

41. Notice that the vast majority of credible UFO sightings are near US military bases.

If aliens were to visit Earth I don't think they would spend all their time near US military bases, it does make sense however that experimental military aircraft would spend a lot of time around US military bases. We have not been visited by aliens, the military is however always working on new weapons and spying technologies that they don't want us to know about.

[redqueen]

45. The thing that puzzled me about this show...

was that one of the things the military guys they interviewed talked about was alleged incidents where UFO sightings by military personnel near military bases coincided with malfunctions of missiles (or possibly other equipment, though I don't recall those being mentioned). These guys were claiming this has happened regularly and in other countries, as well.

Seems like that'd be a national security issue though... :shrug:

Either way, it's interesting.

[defendandprotect]

83. In fact, they seem to also monitor our NASA launchings ....

and the concern there seems to be that we are introducing nuclear materials into

space. Evidently they fly around the rocket checking.

It's always been a "security" issue tho denied by US --

except there is film right after the DC sightings, as I recall it ...

where military personnel are saying they are real and there is nothing

we can do about them.

I think Americans are way behind on even gathering in information on all of this --

and we also seem to be keeping other nations from revealing the truth about what

is happening in their countries.

[redqueen]

117. The director of France's agency said the US shouldn't be afraid to tell the truth...

after they declassified and released all that info recently.

[defendandprotect]

171. Makes sense -- but . . .

in the case of America I'm always wondering if really they are trying to adapt the

alien powers for their own use. IMO, that's what a Superpower would be thinking.

Perhaps you have read, "The Day After Roswell" . . . ? The original hard cover book

had a intro by Sen. Strom Thurmond who was labeling the aliens as a horrid danger to

us and was happy all the info was being revealed because he thought we had to war on

and defeat this threat!!! Later he said he was misinformed and didn't mean it--!!!

"Independence Day" happens to be on Ch. 29 right now . . . and these are certainly

"hostile" aliens!!

Some say there were agreements signed with them: Pres Eisenhower is named as having

experienced a "Encounters of the Third Kind"-type of event. Agreeing to the breeding

programs, etal. Evidently by the time that started they seemed pretty sure that Earth

wasn't going to make it.

I think America shifted into the hands of the paranoids long, long ago --

Granted, if any of this is true, only a few will be taken off in spaceships --

the rest of us will disappear with the planet ---

In fact, at least one of the Crop Circles shows just that . . . a universe without

the Earth!!

[defendandprotect]

82. If our military installations and missiles were a concern to them . . .

as they seem to be -- then they are monitoring the right places.

[FogerRox]

218. Check out the 1957 UFO incursion into Washington DC airspace

I am not familiar with these facts...

"Notice that the vast majority of credible UFO sightings are near US military bases.:"

No, I dont notice that. OTOH Military bases are in every state... so I guess I am wrong, the odds are very good that UFO sightings would end up close to a base, cause there are so freakin many of them.

[Greyhound]

42. They exist, that is not debatable. However, I think it is unlikely in the extreme that they are

of alien origin, I mean really, why would they bother?

[defendandprotect]

85. "Why" . . . ?

They may be our ancestors in a sense --- we may be hybrids --

breeding program from hundreds of thousands of years ago?

We also have the potential to introduce nuclear weapons into space --

they may think that's dangerous?

Some also say that we are on the outer limits of space and that they

are working to bring us into the fold?

We have have so destroyed our planet that it requires action on their part.

If you recall, at least one of the Crop Circles showed a universe without earth--!!

[Greyhound]

185. We're a sad, violent, and extremely dim species and I tend more toward a Douglas Adams

kind of attitude about us. I mean really, if you were some advanced, sane being, would you bother to come all the way out here to spy on us?

From The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (new edition)
Earth: Mostly Harmless

[JuniperLea]

288. We could be their experiment for all we know...

"for all we know" being the operative phrase there... because in reality, we know very little about our own planet and its inhabitants, let alone the entire universe.

I have a hard time understanding how some people can be so emphatic about something there is no proof for or against, and basing their arguments on our own limited science.

[notadmblnd]

44. I believe that the likelyhood of alien life is about the same as the existance of god

[Shardik]

49. Interestingsite.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

[defendandprotect]

88. Supposedly, one of the first question the natives asked Columbus about . .

was in reference to ships seen in the skies --- the star people.

Columbus denied any knowledge of it --

[Ghost in the Machine]

75. I believe that aliens *were* "God"..

UFOS IN THE BIBLE?
Although many traditional Jews, Christians, and Muslims would probably reject this idea with little thought, it seems likely that similar phenomena were observed in biblical times. One can read the scriptures with only a little background knowledge and discover numerous examples of anomalous aerial craft appearing in the sky. We find dozens of shining clouds, balls of fire, wheels, and flaming chariots which bear a striking resemblance to modern UFOs.

Here are a few general quotes from the Torah which help to make this point:

"Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind..." (Jeremiah 4:13).
"Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud..." (Isaiah 19:1).
"And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night..." (Isaiah 4:5).

There are also many specific cases described in both Testaments of the Bible in which strange objects appear in the sky. Let's look at a few:
Throughout their wanderings in the desert, the Elohim guide the Hebrews from above, riding ahead in various craft. Perhaps the best example takes place during the exodus from Egypt: "... the children of Israel went up and harnessed out of the land of Egypt. And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light..." (Exodus 13:18,21). The story continues with a pursuit by the Egyptian army. "And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them... but it gave light by night to : so that the came not near the other all the night." (Exodus 14:19-20).

Since literal clouds don't have fiery pillars, one can reasonably conclude that the object was something very different -- perhaps a UFO with a descending beam of light. One is also forced to wonder how the Israelites got across the Red Sea. Could they have been flown across?

The prophet Ezekiel, a frequent recipient of extraterrestrial visitations, described a strange object in the sky: "And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it..." (Ezekiel 1:4).

This could very well be a modern-day account of a UFO sighting: A swirling wind accompanied a huge disk-shaped object surrounded by a bright glow. Ezekiel goes on to describe the strange craft descending from the sky, noting its resemblance to a spinning wheel and mentioning that it is piloted by a powerful-looking being.

In another incredible incident, the transfiguration of Jesus Christ, we find an excellent array of UFO-related phenomena (Matthew 17:2,5-6). First of all, Jesus Christ brought his disciples up on a mountain, where he showed himself as the glorious figure of a nordic-superhuman. "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light...." Then a UFO appears, provoking intense fear in the onlookers. "... behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud.... And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid." Finally, we read in Luke's version of the story that "... they feared as they entered into the cloud." (Luke 9:34).

WHAT ABOUT ALIEN ABDUCTIONS?
The subject is certainly one of the most controversial aspects of the whole phenomenon. In light of this fact, I expect to receive many flames in response to my argument that it occurred in biblical times.
People have concocted the most ridiculous stereotypes about angels: They have become winged cherubs strumming harps, etc, a view that is totally uncorroborated by the Bible or any other ancient text. In reality, the Bible repeatedly shows angels provoking fear in those who see them -- these cases can be thought of as grey encounters, while non-frightful incidents are most likely nordic encounters.

Probably the best example of standard alien abduction is the story of "Jacob's ladder."

Imagine that you were on a long hike through the wilderness and you lay down to sleep for the night under the starry sky. Suddenly you wake up with a start, but instead of seeing the morning sun you are greeted by a diagonal shaft of light descending from above, upon which strange creatures are going up and down. You hear a voice telling you that "your seed shall be spread far and wide," that it is necessary and important for the future of humanity. The voice continues, saying that "we will watch over you, for you are a chosen one." Then everything fades to black. You open your eyes and it's morning. "Must have been a dream," you rationalize, but an irrational fear keeps clawing back into your brain. "I've gotta get away from this place!" you shout, and quickly depart.

If this happened to you, what would you think? Alien abduction, right? Let's look at what happened to Jacob: "And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said.... thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest.... And Jacob awaked out of his sleep... And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place!" (Genesis 28:12-17).

It is especially interesting to note that human and superhuman crossbreeding is possible. At least the Bible says so: "And it came to pass... That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of reknown." (Genesis 6:1-2,4).

Who were these mighty men? They were demigods, in quite the literal sense, and many were chosen as kings to rule human societies. They were giants because they inherited height from the nordic-superhumans; they were "of old" because they inherited longevity from the nordic-superhumans.

WAS JESUS CHRIST A DEMIGOD?
He was a demigod created to become the great king of the Jews, the messiah. Throughout Christian history, people have wondered about the virgin birth -- but the answer is now clear: Jesus was a "Son of God, son of man" simply because he was half alien and half human!
We find evidence for this belief directly in the Gospels; the early Christians wrote it themselves. Consider this story (Luke 1:26-32,34-35,38): "... the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee... And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying.... And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God." She is thus visited by a superhuman being who tells her she is somehow special or chosen, and she is afraid. The story goes on to reveal the visitation's shocking purpose. "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest.... Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." Mary agrees to submit to Yahweh as his handmaid, which in that time meant a concubine! She will be impregnated with godly sperm in order to produce the king of Israel!

On the night of Christ's birth some strange phenomena are observed, further confirming his superhuman origin. The famous "star of Bethlehem," for example, is said to have led the wise men to the infant Jesus, stopping over the place where he lay; no actual star of course could do this, so we must conclude that it was in fact a UFO. Other bright lights and shining clouds in the sky are described in two of the apocryphal books (Protevangelion and 1 Infancy), as well as a state of suspended animation in the village during Mary's labor. We also find the story of the shepherds, who see an angel descend from the sky in a brilliant glow of light to proclaim the birth of the messiah.

[defendandprotect]

90. In fact, the Vatican does not deny that the Bibical "angels" may be aliens ---

Evidently, the Vatican also holds a lot of information on this subject --

[Harry Monroe]

96. The existence of dog??

Sorry, I'm dyslexic.

[JuniperLea]

289. I think you are onto something...

I have to agree.

[arcadian]

47. Per haps extra dimensional

But I don't know. :shrug:

[LWolf]

48. If and when every reported sighting of a UFO

is confirmed to originate on earth, regardless the source, that still will not answer any questions about extraterrestrial life or intelligence.

To assume that we are the only planet in existence to support life, and that we are the only "intelligent" life, would be foolish in the extreme.

As for the UFOs reported? I don't believe anything. I don't KNOW. Until I know, I'm not going to speculate.

It's more fun to watch everyone else.

:popcorn:

[Blarch]

50. It's very likely intelligence life has existed in the universe....

at one point. Intelligent life may have risen and fallen many times in the past billions of years. Getting two intelligent life forms to rise at the same time, and be advanced at the same time ...and then end up meeting in this giant universe is very unlikely.

Sorry, No UFO's. with aliens in them people.

[BlueJazz]

108. Yep...Quite true....People tend to forget the "Time" thing.

Undeveloped Societies can't see/hear/find us and overly advanced societies would have little interest.

:)

[skepticscott]

120. Who knows?

If they could travel over interstellar distances in a manageable amount of time, they might very well find other intelligent life as interesting as we would, even if it were less advanced than them. After all, humans have spent huge amounts of time studying bacteria, insects, barnacles, algae and many other organisms far less advanced than us, and would jump at the chance to study even the simplest life forms on other planets, even if they had no evolutionary connection to us.

[Xithras]

222. Yeah, I read a great story about that sort of thing once. Very plausible.

The title escapes me at the moment, but the story was basically that a SETI-like project succeeded and located signals from an alien civilization in deep space. The signals weren't pointed at us, but were simply escaped broadcasts from a television-like device. For years humans watched these broadcasts with interest, following along with their politics, grieving at their losses, and even taking sides in their wars. One day, a broadcast came across one of their educational channels explaining how their faster-than-light engines work. The race was so advanced that they broadcast this stuff to their children on the equivalent of the Discovery Channel.

The humans spent years figuring the technology out, invested trillions into building a huge spacecraft, and even fought a war to determine who would get to be our ambassadors and what message they would carry, but eventually they did manage to launch themselves and went to greet our neighbors.

When the ship arrived, it discovered that the species had been extinct for several million years. So long, in fact, that almost no evidence of their existence remained on their own homeworld. Throughout the book humanity had been aspiring to be more like it's advanced "neighbors", but they arrived to find that time and erosion had practically erased the race from existence. Only those radio signals remained.

It was a fairly nihilistic book, but the underlying story is entirely plausible. In fact, it's probable that any radio based contact would have a similar ending.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

53. Close to 20 years ago I saw a UFO (it was very close and I was with neighbors) and I will not assume

that it was ET although it looked like nothing that our government has. It was at night and it was HUGE (at least a football field in length, low flying with lights around the bottom perimeter and silent.

PS, my part of NY at that time was a hotbed of UFO activity and crafts like this one have published sightings from back then,

[defendandprotect]

91. Interesting . . ..

I knew there was a lot of UFO activity along the Hudson -- right above NY in NJ.

But I never heard that there had been one of these really huge/football field sized

ones in NY or NJ. The "Phoenix Lights" were the first I'd become aware of --

especially with photos.

There used to be a rather steady stream of info coming thru in books but that's

seems to have stopped these past 8 years!

Symington/Arizona has confirmed now that he also saw the craft --

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

118. I just did a swift search and here is one famous sighting near me. This one starts at about 30 mins.

from my home.

http://ufologie.net/hv/hudson24mar1983eb.htm

Note - the person describes it as football field in size.
This sighting happened a few years before my own.

[defendandprotect]

159. Thank you -- football field sized -- early 1980's . . . !!!!

Never heard about this one before --

Quite something ... and should I ever see one of these I certainly

want it to be with at least 12 other people-!!!

Also noted the additional info --

A while back Ellen Crystal wrote a book of her interactions with UFO's

in that area.

History Channel has been trying to do something on UFO's but tho

somewhat interesting it's been very timid.

Do you by any chance remember "Sightings" fom a decade or so ago--???

Keep reporting if anything new happens --

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

182. lol! I saw it with 6 other people! I went out to walk my dog and there it was and when I looked to

my left and right, my neighbors were out on their doorsteps watching it. :) When it finally passed overhead I called the town police and couldn't get through.

I felt no fear at all, just fascination and wonder.

Several years later, my youngest son, who wasn't even born then came to me and asked me why didn't I ever mention that I saw a UFO. He then told me that his friend Michael's dad told him about it and that I was there. :)

Remember Whitley Streiber's book, Communion? It related his true close encounters. That took place up here too.

The show on History Channel - UFO Hunters, did an episode that covered Hudson Valley sightings. It was about vortexes and UFO sightings. There are old standing stones and stone chambers in this area and supposedly UFOs are attracted to them.

Here is a link to that show's part 1 on youtube. The other parts are on youtube and you can just copy and paste the episode into search and just plug in 2 for part 2, 3 for part 3. It is a 5 part episode. EnJoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmo6wzOTybc

As to the show Sightings, I would catch them once in a while. I should see if there are any on you tube!

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

188. Thanks for info/link --

Yes, I remember "Communion" -- have read some of his books -- in fact, I think I saw a TV
version of his story? And, yes, I generally remember a country/woodsy setting for his
vacation home.

I recall in some speculation that you have a river up there which doesn't flow in usual
direction -- and that they think some element necessary for them is found there?

The show on History Channel - UFO Hunters, did an episode that covered Hudson Valley sightings. It was about vortexes and UFO sightings. There are old standing stones and stone chambers in this area and supposedly UFOs are attracted to them.

Had to save link for tomorrow -- late now. But your references to stones reminded me that they
only recently figured out that the Stonehenge area seems to be used by UFO's to zig-zag over
the stones in the circle and pick up energy, they think--!!???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmo6wzOTybc

As to the show Sightings, I would catch them once in a while. I should see if there are any on you tube!

Yes . . . some of the old shows may have gotten posted -- that would be fun.
I think they were still around at the time of the Phoenix Lights --

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

272. Communion was made into a major motion picture starring Chris

Walken as Streiber. I do have the book, started to read it and had to put it down. It freaked me out because I found out that it took place up here...and abduction stories, so close to home freaked me out! lol!

This area is now becoming very built up as it is in commuting distance to Manhattan. There are still areas where there are vacation homes for city residents and even many of those homes have been converted into year round homes.

As to the Phoenix Lights...here is a search on youtube. There are 1,060 hits on it.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22phoenix+lights%22&search_type=&aq=-1&oq=

[defendandprotect]

315. Know what you mean ...

I'm always intellectually prepared for spaceships/aliens ....

but emotionally .... not-!!!

And Ellen Crystal's book and maybe one other gave directions to those areas near you --

I would talk about going, but when my husband offered to take me, I knew how scared

I really was and that I'd never go--!!

Yes -- I realized it was the MOVIE -- not a documentary.

I used to spend time at a beautiful lake in Sullivan County when I was a teenager --

My girlfriend's uncle owned a resort there. Always wanted to go back.

Evidently, there are a number of lakes around Yulan; I never knew the name of the lake

nor the resort! It was big tho and right on the lake. I thought Sullivan County,

but looking it up they also show Rockland County?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

331. Will reply later but wanted to let you know of sightings on Jan 5th in NJ. Here is a link

to youtube videos of them.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ufo+new+jersey&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

[anigbrowl]

180. Woohoo, another football field sized UFO with no photos

These things are so elusive, I tell ya. It's just no possible capture them on film in day light.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

193. I really hope

that you will see one up close and personal some day. I KNOW what I saw and what my neighbors saw and it would probably would have made you fall on your skeptical ass.

[anigbrowl]

227. I'm sure it would...if there were any photos!

Oh well, there's always LSD in the meantime. I've found it a lot more reliable than waiting for the alien spaceships to appear. I would love if they did, but I would also love if UFO buffs learned to take better photographs.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

270. But then I made it very clear that I didn't know its origin. It could be ours. As to photos

I was so in awe in watching that it didn't even dawn on me to take photographs. It was also before the digital age and the eruption of the Internet as we know it now. I'll tell you one thing, if I did see one again, I have a camera in my cellphone or if given the time, several digital cameras here.

There are photos a plenty on the Internet and one interesting source for video is the show on the History Channel, UFO Hunters. There are also a lot of videos on youtube from the recent sightings in Texas.

[Raksha]

226. Amazing story! Thanks for posting the link. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

269. Your welcome!

[druidity33]

141. saw something about 16 years ago...

in Buffalo NY. Was on my porch with my housemates and a couple of friends, neighbors outside, next door, early evening... buddy Chris says, "hey look at that". We all, 6 or 7 of us, look up to a distant pulsing light moving at a phenomenal speed across the sky... it stops short & holds position for a few seconds just above the city lights on the horizon, starts pulsing a different color, slowly moves upward, zig zags several times at a "regular" rate of speed back upward, then ZZOOOOOMMed across the entire span of the sky, one horizon to the other in less than 2 seconds and it was gone. No sound.

Chris said, "dude, what the fuck was that?"

I says, "dude, i think we just saw an Unidentified Flying Object"


The neighbor who was outside saw the whole thing too... retired Navy man. Said it scared the bejeebus outta him. That he was SURE "that was no damn plane".



:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

163. Wow ...

Yeah, how anyone could read these descriptions of speed and still think

it's something our militsry has had closeted since 1947 is astonishing

if not daft --!!

That's the way to see a UFO -- with a lot of other people--!!

I'm always amazed at how believable witness reports are and how imbecilic

the debunkers sound. Kinda like the difference in quality between Shakespeare

and the Bible --!!!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

184. It's validating when you've seen one in the company of others. It sounds like

you had quite an experience!

What's interesting about my sighting is that I had no fear what so ever.

[druidity33]

194. same here, no fear

It was actually kinda exhilarating. A "whooooaaaahhhh" moment.

I am REALLY glad there were other people there. Strangely, the one guy who was actually pretty drunk/stoned was the guy who spotted the thing to begin with! We had many conversations afterwords about "the incident". Never did see a writeup in the local rags, and didn't at the time have internetting available... it was 1992(93?... those years kind of blend together) after all.

I wouldn't try and make any presumptions as to what it was. The wife of said Navyman was the only eventual skeptic and the only one with a somewhat plausible explanation. She thought it was a "laser light show"... but after talking it out over beers one night, we all decided that since the "object" at one point went through a part of the sky that was becoming cloudy, we would've been able to see the "beam" as it were.

The whole "event" lasted only like 15-18 seconds... but those were really LONG seconds man.


I'm not a "believer" really, but i'm sure as hell not a disbeliever.

[NeedleCast]

55. Will Smith

Flying one of those alien fighter craft from Independence Day. He saved the planet using a Macintosh virus...

[greguganus]

63. Isn't he also a Scientologist? Those coulda been his ancestors in that mothership. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Hah! Debunked! There's no such thing as a Macintosh virus! n/t

[Lucian]

56. Oh it wouldn't surprise me if some of it was extraterrestrial.

[Earth_First]

59. They are why I vote Dennis Kucinich.

But in all seriousness, Dennis and I agree; UFO's kick some stormtrooper @ss!

[ZombieHorde]

60. People who believe in unidentified flying objects

are cannibalistic monsters, and Humanity's only hope.

I voted the 'childish' option.

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. UFO's are 60% delusions, 15% fakes, and 15% explainable stuff if anyone were so inclined.

The obvious answer to the Fermi paradox is that we're alone.

[anigbrowl]

114. I don't really agree here

Not that I think we're a vacation destination for aliens, but since radiation intensity decreases with the square of distance and cosmic distances are, picking out signals against the background noise is extremely difficult.

[lumberjack_jeff]

123. The universe is 15 billion years old.

That's enough time for spacefaring alien civilizations to flood across the galaxy hundreds of thousands of times. If intelligent life is common, you should not be able to swing a dead cat without hitting ET. The moon should be covered with tentacle tracks. Mars should be littered with the alien equivalent of tang wrappers.

Once people realize that this (earth and its inhabitants) is as good as it gets, you begin to appreciate the importance of preserving it.

[anigbrowl]

144. Doesn't really follow

It takes a certain amount of time for any spacefaring civilization to evolve even if they got off to a good start, during which time period the universe is doing tis expanding thing. 'Common' does not to my mind mean intelligent life is to be found on every other planet; more likely one in a million or fewer (which is still a lot in absolute terms). We've only been seriously looking (that is, with a meaningful research budget and programs) for 50 years (though I think radio telescopes go back to between the wars).

SETI estimates that our wideband tv and radio, the 'noisiest' types of communication, are only detectable out to about half a light year or so. Meantime, we're switching to narrow-band communication more and more. I think it's rather early to be drawing conclusions.

[Terran]

209. You're assuming aliens *want* to "flood across the galaxy"

No reason to think other species are as interested in exploring as we are. You also assume they have any reason to come here. The Sol system is a relative backwater, considering its location in the galaxy. A lot of stars are easier to get to than ours.

[lumberjack_jeff]

212. "Curious" is a prerequisite for "intelligent". n/t

[Terran]

213. Says who?

I think you're anthropomorphizing. That may have been true for our ancient primate ancestors, but there's no reason to assume it's universal. It also assumes curosity is the only reason aliens would come here.

[druidity33]

143. unless of course

You include the 10% that are real.

Check your Maths Jeff!




Oh, and is that paradox fer mi?


:)

[lumberjack_jeff]

199. Bwahaha! I'm no mathematician, I just read 'em!

Good one. :thumbsup:

[merh]

66. My opinion

they are unidentifiable flying objects

If you think about it, UFO is just perfect for what they are. :freak:

[Occam Bandage]

67. Anyone who believes that extraterrestrials are physically visiting Earth

does not quite comprehend the distances involved.

[BlooInBloo]

77. Of course. People's lack of comprehension is the cause of all religion/sci-fi crackpottery.

[Harry Monroe]

92. Oh, they're visiting us all right.

Everytime a human is abducted, he/she also claims to be anally probed. FWIW, I am still mystified as why an advanced civilization would travel hundreds of light years just to probe our asses. My theory is that George Bush was once abducted by an alien and was anally probed, but the government is covering up. He is the rare exception to the human species in that his brain (as well as his head) is up his ass and the aliens assume that all of us have that same physiology.

[Occam Bandage]

102. Klxncx: Directive for giving to is:

Long ten twelves rotations by light travel, Earth destination you will goes. Hundreds rotations wait you. Find human one. American rural human one, preferred drunk you. Probe you him. In ass probe you him. There leave him. Return. Again Hundreds rotations wait you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

124. You'd think an advanced civilization would have better grammar.

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

155. What they are reporting . . .

is medical info gathering and breeding programs ....

Males report sperm is taken --

Females report pregnancies which disappear --

See: Betty and Barney Hill and read their experiences

Meanwhile, our fertility clinics seem based on this info and we certainly

didn't have them in mid-1960's ...

And alien tracking of humans with implants also seems to have preceeded our tracking

animals with tags ... and now our new methods to tag/ID every human --

[Maru Kitteh]

296. The first recorded artificial insemination of a human was in 1884. Fertility clinics have been

around MUCH longer than the mid 60's, just not for people. The technology has followed in the footsteps of modern animal husbandry, not Woo-woo aliens in psychedelic space ships with laser beams, Jim Beams, and anal probes.



:crazy:

[defendandprotect]

93. Perhaps you've heard of time travel?

Or a "wrinkle in time" ---

And the speed of their ships?

Supposedly, they are capable of this.

[Occam Bandage]

103. Speed is capped at just under light. For everything.

Current theories of the universe don't support "wrinkle in time" travel; hopping into a tightly-curled extra dimension would make things harder, not easier. It's conceivable, depending on the shape of the universe, that tangent-like paths might work, but that's like walking through Earth to get to Shanghai instead of around it. It's still too far to walk, and if you're going to walk, you aren't just going to take a picture and walk back.

[defendandprotect]

110. You're discussing "aliens" and talking about "current theories" . . . ??!!!

Time travel . . . is supposedly what they do.

It may be "inconceivable" to you -- but we're not talking about the limitations of humans.

PS: Do you really believe that it is "humans" and "current theory" which put the

craft in the "Phoenix Lights" on display? This is football field sized craft with no

sound and amazing capability for speed. And I trust you have seen those films?

[Occam Bandage]

111. Human, alien, whatever. Everything in the universe has to play by its rules.

There's no more evidence for time travel now than there was for H.G. Wells. Your "supposedlies" are built on nothing but fevered imagination.

[defendandprotect]

150. Anti-gravity energy suggests you are wrong . . . .

These aliens are something like a minimum of a billion years ahead of us ---

and you really think you know what they can do?

Human and alien have different capabilities, needless to say.

Do you think that a human could knock around in a ship going from 0 to 1400 mph

as they do?

We don't even have the brains yet to get rid of our gas-guzzlers though the planet

has been entirely polluted--!!!

[anigbrowl]

228. You mean, something not even proved to exist?

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. but then, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't know or care much about physics.

[jayfish]

299. Some Do Care About Physics However.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/01/faster-than-the.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/João_Magueijo



Jay

[Occam Bandage]

240. You're supporting unsubstantiated theories with other unsubstantiated theories.

"Flozziston can launch a ship faster than the speed of light!"
"That's impossible."
"Well, if that's impossible, then how come Flozziston emits Blorklenaut rays!"
"You made up both those words."
"Oh yeah? Brinkenburg Anti-energy Fields require both."
"You made up that, too."
"Well, then YOU explain reverse antipsychic radiation!"
"..."

[anigbrowl]

115. lights =/= a craft

And yes, I've looked at a lot of photos and video. i am not seeing any giant craft. I can imagine time travel, but I can imagine magic powers, dragons and unicorns as well. Imaginability doesn't constitute evidence.

[Chiyo-chichi]

125. The only videos I've seen of the "Phoenix Lights"

seem to be consistent with flares.

This one seems to debunk the Phoenix Lights pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewCk_Shb7Hk

Can you point me to any videos that clearly show a craft?

[redqueen]

145. According to one of the panelists,

the only video publicly available so far has been from the later portion of that event, at night. He claimed on this program that he had uncovered more footage and implied he'd be revealing it in his new documentary. Maybe just a publicity stunt... but I'm curious to see what he's talking about.

[defendandprotect]

152. Symington saw it in daylight . . . catch up with his description . . .

Those who watched said it was not flares ---

and from what I see on the video flares would be impossible ---

but there are always some who will go for a "Doug 'n Dave" alibi --

Flares are entirely unlikely -- they could not maintain the geometric evenness

seen in the videos -- and especially not over the long term sightings.

[anigbrowl]

181. Who cares? Is he some sort of UFO expert just because he's the governor?

An object the 'size of a fottball field' is hovering over Phoenix in daylight, and there's not one picture of it? I'm not seeing this geometric evenness you keep tlking about...but why o on, you have me on ignore already. We now retrn you to the regular cycle of 'pheonix light-- symingston-- ronald reagan-- mind control-- 'special' punctuation--

[lumberjack_jeff]

200. I had a co-worker who was convinced that "the grays" were here watching us all the time.

When I asked how come we never see them he postulated that it was because they had advanced science, magic pixie dust and were disguised by the SEP field (somebody else's problem - hitchhikers guide to the galaxy)

His absolute conviction in the ubiquity of "the grays" was made stronger by the very fact that they're never seen, they leave no footprints, emit no radio signals or poop any green piles on the lawn.

The very fact that we can't see the leprechauns sitting astride our computer monitors is proof of their incomprehensible magical powers, not evidence of their nonexistence.

[anigbrowl]

229. You should have offered to sell him some psychic siding

You know, get some copper paint and paint grids on his walls and ceiling to make a faraday cage and protect him from electro-magnetic snooping (this actually works; recording studio sometimes use it reduce radio interference).

[defendandprotect]

251. Well . . . lots of Americans and others have seen "greys" . . .

while no one I know has ever said they've seen "god."

Meanwhile, many military men/officers also saw "aliens" after Roswell accident.

About 1,500 American a year are claiming to be abducted by aliens since mid-60's.

Large numbers of people saw football sized UFO over Phoenix --- including Governor --

Presidents and astronauts, etal have seen craft in skies which clearly not of

this planet --

But carry on with your convictions --

[lumberjack_jeff]

318. The leprechaun which sits on MY computer monitor thinks they're all nuts.

I think, despite his obvious super-duper magic, he's a little bit harsh.

[defendandprotect]

319. I'm sure a memorable contribution to the discussion . . .

[lumberjack_jeff]

320. What's that? He says he has more...

... something rude that I won't repeat about people who can't take a joke.

Although, with those transcendant magic skillz 'n all, I'm not sure why he doesn't type it himself.

[defendandprotect]

321. I think you're working on the wrong end of the ....

joke pipeline . . .

[lumberjack_jeff]

325. What can I say? He talks, I type.

I can't be held responsible if your puny human brain can't contemplate the extra-magicky lucky-charmed universe in which he resides.

Next thing you know, you'll be calling me a crackpot simply because you can't see him. Sigh. Some people lack a sense of... possiblity.

How many fables and fairy tales are there? If there are no real leprechauns that sure is a tremendous waste of words.

[jayfish]

305. Everything?

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2007/08/has-warp-speed-.html

Jay

[Motown_Johnny]

170. more than one possibility

please read my post #164

[jayfish]

306. Last Night, I Was Closely Observing Objects That...

are 1700, 6800, 7600 and 2.5 million light years from Earth. I have a pretty good idea of the distances involved.

Jay

[JohnnieGordon]

68. No option suitable

With all those qualifying "mostly"s in there, there's no way to say that UFOs are never of extraterrestrial origin. That may sound like an extreme position, but the vast distances that are likely between intelligent civilizations in the universe, and the difficulty in finding each other to start with, make it likely to me no aliens know of our existence. And even if they did, they're too far away to get here.

[defendandprotect]

94. See Reply #93 ---

[Seen the light]

70. There's as much evidence that aliens have visited us as there is for God's existence

i.e. none.

So I don't believe in either.

[defendandprotect]

106. Actually, there is more evidence of UFO's than of "god."

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case511.htm

Kenneth Arnold sighting '47 Mount Ranier

Evidently, some people think this all began in recent times --

In fact, during WWII there were various sightings by pilots --

and there has always been rumor that Germany had actually captured

a downed disc and were reverse-engineering it.

The flying ships seem to be pictured in art of various kinds -- from cave

paintings in France that are 20,000 years old to European art showing flying craft.

The native American immediately asked Columbus about their knowledge of the crafts

and the "star people." Columbus denied any knowledge of them.

The human race seems to be hybrids -- these aliens may be our ancestors.

In fact, the Vatican openly states that they do not deny that the Bibical "angels"

may be aliens. The Vatican holds a lot of information on this subject.


PS: As for "god" there have been reports like Fatima which could have been a UFO

event, in fact. Other than that, we've had Mary appearing on tacos and windows.

Very few have claimed to have photographs of "god" visiting the planet -- like the

"Phoenix Lights" -- nor witnesses to alien bodies such as at Roswell.

[Marr]

78. People sometimes witness things in the sky that they cannot identify.

How the term "UFO" has become synonymous with 'alien spacecraft' is beyond me. It's like making the leap from "interesting burn mark on a piece of toast" to "a tart who's been dead for 2000 years is trying to tell me something".

I think the odds of alien life existing are extremely good-- practically guaranteed, in fact. The notion that they are visiting us, on the other hand, will remain in the "myth" category for me until I see some convincing evidence.

[lunatica]

79. Since I see no evidence that DIS-PROVES Aliens I keep an open mind

There is no one on this planet who has evidence that Aliens and UFOs don't exist, just like God. So, since it's possible both exist, I'm agnostic which means I'm open to the possible, no matter how improbable.

If someone says a flat, "yes" then it should be someone who has or thinks they've seen a UFO or aliens. My totally honest and truthful grandmother always claimed she saw one when she was young. I believe she either saw one or thought she saw one.

If someone says a flat, "no" then I have to wonder what makes them so sure. It can't be that they know any more than the rest of us, so I wonder if it's for fear that it'll put the lie to their religion or what their critical thinking ability is. Without knowing for sure, the best possible response, the only one actually, is to say, "I don't know"

[nolabear]

81. I knew abductees--

Well, I sort of did. I grew up in Pascagola Miss. and the very well known case there in '73 involved two men who often came into my grandparents' cafe, Hickson and Parker (I forget their first names). I was 18 at the time and I have to admit, those poor men really seemed to believe the extraordinary story they told. That fact that they were drinkin' men didn't help matters, but whatever the reality was, they had a tough time of it. It was rumored that the younger man, Parker I think, had a nervous breakdown and avoided any connection with publicity for a long time. I've never looked up the outcome. I have to say, though, there were an amazing number of sightings at the time by people you wouldn't think would benefit by making things up. Personally, I don't see how there couldn't be other life, but haven't been convinced they've come to call.

[lunatica]

84. I remember that with all the ruckus it created

I felt sorry for the two men. Every time I hear of someone claiming they're abductees I think of those two men. I'm sure it keeps a lot of people silent (if indeed they are abducted). I would never tell anyone except maybe the person I trusted most in life.

If one is so starved for attention that they will say something that brings instant disdain and national derision and ridicule then they're in deep psychological trouble.

[defendandprotect]

97. IMO, there are always "an amazing number of sightings" . . ..

but we're not hearing about them -- and certainly info seems to be shut down

in last 8 years.

I also think that the Crop Circles were another attempt to communicate with

earth people and people all over the world. Sadly, at least one crop circle

shows the universe minus Earth.

[Harry Monroe]

86. Mostly explainable phenomenon

But if you see some irrefutable proof such as the USS "Enterprise" circling Uranus looking for Klingons, let me know. I'm open minded on the subject.

[defendandprotect]

322. So you think that Gov. Symington -- retired Air Force --- was looking . . .

at something "explainable" when he said this . . .????

Gov. Symington admits he saw the UFO -
Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 09:45 PM by defendandprotect
Video --

"It was enormous. Otherworldly."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3zotvpZLnY&feature=rela...




Other interesting crop circle videos -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoR2t-iM9k&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS56XkWfpcY&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqhvmEIZG0o&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugq6frGlKVQ&feature=rela...

[zorahopkins]

87. They Are All

Every single UFO is:

1. Unidentified

2. Flying, and

3. An Object.

That's my vieuu, and I AM sticking to it!

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR Uuhite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter betuueen "V" and "X". Instead, I use a "double u", as in "Uuhite House".

[Harry Monroe]

95. Greetings, citizen from Klatuu

"Calling occupants from interplanetary craft"

[zorahopkins]

98. Greetings To You, Too

Uuhat a uuonderful thing for you to do -- greet me, I mean.

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR Uuhite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter betuueen "V" and "X". Instead, I use a "double u", as in "Uuhite House".

[donco6]

99. I'm open to the idea.

But very, very skeptical.

[ColbertWatcher]

101. All, not mostly, explainable phenomenon. Come on. n/t

[defendandprotect]

104. France has released info which confirms . . .

England has released or is releasing their files . . .

Glad you posted this info -- I missed the show. In fact, I was wondering if it was
from last year 'cause I remember seeing one with the idiot Nye on the show.

It always amazes me that before believing that their government could be deceiving
them, some prefer to believe that the entire town of Roswell citizens is lying in
order to ... what? Be thought of as "tin foil hatters"...?

Gov. Symington lied because they were frightened of telling the truth -- i.e., that they
didn't know what it was. Gov. didn't know what a football field size flying craft
was with phenomenal characteristics like no sound and staying steady in the air and with
capability of very fast flight which we can't duplicate -- but he did know about lying.
And worse than lying, they tried to shut down the questioning by citizens by trying to
make fun of them. Happily he did tell the truth 10 years later that he had personally seen
it and I think it was daylight when he saw it.

Evidently, we have not yet reverse-engineered the ability that the UFO's have to dodge
what we fire at them. It doesn't seem that they fire on us. I think the movie,
"The Day The Earth Stood Still" was phenomenal in the very common sense suggestion that
an automatic system be set up to fire on anyone who becomes an aggressor.

Only one person here mentioned "abductees" which seems to have been going on since the
mid-1960's with a breeding program. Originally, the message from the "aliens" was that
we had so polluted the earth and were in such danger also from nuclear weapons that we
had very little time to straighten things out. Later, we didn't hear much about that
anymore. Every thinking human being on the planet recognizes both of those dangers --
tho certainly corrupt government and elites have tried to deny both those dangers in vast
propaganda campaigns.

I think that, perhaps, one question to be asked of those responding is how much attention
they have paid to this issue over a period of time -- what they've read or watched on this
subject. I hope that this article prompts more interest in the subject and that more
DU'ers look into it.

Again - thanks for the transcript.

PS: Would any of us be surprised to find the CIA's hand in this?

[Kaleko]

130. For those who DO want to inform themselves, here's a video of that Larry King show:

Check it out to see if King's guests that night are more credible in their testimony than some of the "authorities" posting on this thread

http://www.niburu.nl/index.php?articleID=18476

Btw, this show first aired on July 18, 2008.

[redqueen]

146. Thanks for linking to the video!

One of the things I found interesting, and the reason I included the 'my opinion should be discounted' option, is how willing both sides were to be ugly, mocking and dismissive of each other. At first it was the Air Force guys mocking Bill Nye, and later it was Nye and the guy from SETI mocking the researchers.

So unnecessary.

[Kaleko]

247. The military UFO witnesses are experts in their fields who put their reputations on the line,

if not more, by coming forward on Larry King. For them to ridicule people like Bill Nye and the SETI operator (who has a vested interest in keeping grant monies flowing into his project), for not even having familiarized themselves with the facts, is a perfectly appropriate response IMO. Experts have to point out the astonishing lack of insight on the part of an army of wanna-be debunkers.

There is a big difference between dismissing something you don't know much about and mocking impostors posing as experts.

[redqueen]

277. Sorry but no, they were saying stuff like "are you going to do it with baking soda and water Bill?"

and then laughing derisively.

There's a difference between chiding him for not knowing the full facts and throwing out childish, smartassy taunts.

[Kaleko]

298. Well, I understand their frustration with fake "expert" debunkers

who act as gatekeepers for the ongoing government-run disinformation campaign.

Please try to understand what is actually at stake for military and other highly regarded professionals when they become whistleblowers before condemning them for lacking in decorum, for crying out loud.

[redqueen]

311. I do too... I just wish they wouldn't act that way.

It doesn't do anything for either side's argument.

[defendandprotect]

323. Nye got what he deserved . . .

he was the dumbest shill I've ever seen them put forward to "debunk" . . .

[defendandprotect]

153. I thought it was probably a repeat -- think I saw it first time around . . .

We have "authorities" positing on this thread .... ? Where?

Meanwhile, I much prefer transcripts --- faster and easier ---

[Raksha]

225. I caught a portion of that Larry King show

and I was really surprised at how serious and credible some of those military and former military guests were. But mostly I was surprised that a program seriously discussing the possibility of extraterrestrial visitrs would air on CNN at all.

I didn't catch the Nye portion of the show, but from what others have said on this topic I didn't miss anything. Snarky dismissiveness masquerading as scientific skepticism is something I can easily live without.

[defendandprotect]

252. This is a subject Larry King does at least twice a year ...I think...

[Quantess]

105. Sure, why not? I like the idea of extraterrestrial life forms reaching out to humans.

It's a distraction. Wondering about UFOs and extraterrestrials is a way of forgetting about earthly problems, and imagining that fantastic things might be possible. Maybe, if the aliens are friendly, they'll take you aboard their ship away from Earth, forever. Wouldn't that be nice?

Do I think it will happen.....no.

[annabanana]

107. My opinion?

I think they should either shit or get off the pot. Stop with the fan dance already.

[Jim Sagle]

113. They suck.

[elleng]

119. I like them very much!

.

[LeftyMom]

121. I don't think we're alone in the universe. I don't think our neighbors fly over and scare hicks

or practice their surgical skills on random livestock, or draw pretty pictures in fields of cereals.

I believe any number of people see things they can not readily identify in the sky. I rather doubt any of these are things that defy conventional explanation, nor do I think that the obvious answer for an otherwise unexplainable light is alien visitation.

[dysfunctional press]

122. i like pie.

why couldn't they be terrestrial craft from the/our future? :shrug:

[Motown_Johnny]

167. time travel is far less likely than interstellar travel.

many would say that going back in time isn't possible at all.

[Joe Bacon]

126. What aliens would actually want to encounter us?

It's been 88 years since KDKA started broadcasting, which means that anyone listening in a sphere of 176 light years (with Earth at the center) has heard our transmissions. No doubt what we have broadcast will scare the shit out of any aliens and I bet they hung a "DO NOT ENCOUNTER" sign around that transmission boundary!

[sundog]

127. i'm just uptight

;)

:hi:

[Orsino]

128. Mostly or all explainable without Little Green/Grey Men.

I'm not yet fully convinced that it's possible for intelligent life to travel between stars, and it sure as hell isn't as likely as the true believers would have it.

I just can't quite rule it out.

[csziggy]

129. I believe there is a possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence somewhere in the universe

But I am not at all sure any of it has visited the Earth. The chances are that the distances in time and space between other civilizations and ours are far too great.

The problem with polls indicating a large percentage of people "believe in UFOs" or in extraterrestrial life is that many people may feel like I do and a vaguely phrased poll question will get a positive response.

[Duer 157099]

131. I watched that too, happened upon it accidentally

That Nye guy really irked me. I can't stand "scientists" who ignore data the way he does.

Most of the panel was quite serious and articulate about not equating the term "UFO" with "little green men" but yet the "skeptics" not only failed to acknowledge this, but kept trying to make the association over and over.

Only Stanton Friedman actually takes the position about extraterrestrial life being involved, which I think is too much of a jump at this point, but whatever, he's certainly entitled to his opinion and he's certainly put in enough years of research to justify even *having* an opinion on the matter, unlike Nye and most other debunkers.

I wish people would treat the topic more seriously, because at the very LEAST, the very least, we have the issue of our airspace being invaded by craft that the military purports to know nothing about. That alone should cause some interest amongst most thinking people.

But *whatever* :shrug: - if the gubmint thought we needed to know, they'd tell us. Right?

[redqueen]

149. The skeptics said they needed proof before they'd treat it seriously.

Which ok, fair enough, but why the wisecracks? I don't get it.

To be fair, the Air Force guys started in on Bill first on this show. I understand if the guys were previously aware of Nye's dismissive attitude about their claims, but acting like that doesn't help at all.

I'm with you... if there are this many military and former military people talking about the kinds of incidents they described (these AF guys claimed it was *hundreds*), then I wonder why more people don't take it just a little more seriously.

[anigbrowl]

230. Well, reports are all very well, but pictures are better

I mean, we know there's been a heavy religious bias in the military especially over the last 8 years. Suppose you find 10% of the military believe in angels and ghosts, should we establish a national ghostbusting task force? I do NOT favor unilaterally dismissing all reports - even if there are no aliens involved, they might lead us towards discovery of unusual natural phenomena. It's always worth keeping your investigative options open, as many new discoveries are made that way.

The problem is that a lot of UFO buffs want their speculations to be treated as fact without going through the normal route of providing evidence to substantiate their claims. Sure it, would be important and significant if earth were playing host to advanced alien beings, but first we need some evidence of their presence. Otherwise you might as well go on about a plague of invisible dragons, which would also be quite important if it turned out to be true. Now, suppose I went onto a UFO forum and said 'after studying x reports and so on, I've come to the conclusion that what we're dealing with are not mechanical spaceships, but in fact dragons and trolls, which exist next to us in a dimension of magic'...do you think I'd get a serious hearing?

[redqueen]

232. Did I suggest a national UFO task force simply because of people's beliefs?

No... so I don't know why you brought that analogy about ghostbusters up.

Now that you mention it, though... since the guys in the Air Force claimed that hundreds of military personnel were coming forward to report their similar stories of UFO sightings along with suspected interference with weapons systems... perhaps there should be a serious investigation into those incidents.

:shrug:

[anigbrowl]

234. Not you personally, but such things are often called for.

It was a rhetorical question, but my point is that the people who make the most noise about needing to find out the truth about UFOs as a matter of urgency also seem to have the lowest standards of evidence.

[Prophet 451]

133. Combination

Mostly normal phonomena (say, 95%), most of the rest are experimental aircraft but a very, very few are unexplainable and may (or may not) be extraterrestrial.

[mgc1961]

134. Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

[Neshanic]

139. Why do they always probe, you know, down there? Other than that they are OK I guess.

[defendandprotect]

253. Breeding program ....

and our fertility programs seem based on some of this --

[Maru Kitteh]

297. No, they're not.

The technology used in modern fertility clinics followed in the footsteps of modern animal husbandry. The first record of the artificial insemination of a human female is 1884. You think we needed flippin' aliens to figure out where the eggs and sperm are and how to put them together?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[defendandprotect]

309. You only needed a turkey baster for that . . .

[Maru Kitteh]

327. You really don't know a damned thing about fertility science or history, do you.

It's a rhetorical question, btw.

[Skittles]

147. I am all for them

[yodermon]

148. I think "UFOs = ET's" is the biggest excercise of public opinion well-poisoning

in the history of the US.

[AsahinaKimi]

151. I saw something when I was a child..

It streaked across the sky but then stopped and whizzed back in the reverse direction. The time between stopping and starting was a few moments. No airplane or balloon does that. I don't know
what does.. but the colors were incredible. I called it a flying rainbow..My dad was driving
and pulled over when we saw it. We all got out of the car and watched it. The next day it was in the newspaper across several states. But then the story never had any follow up.

[robcon]

156. Missing option: ALL are explainable phenomena. n/t

[originalpckelly]

158. Ugly Fucking Ogres out to be outlawed. EOM.

[Hanse]

162. There is no such thing as UFOs.

People who claim to have seen UFOs are possessed by demons.

[Motown_Johnny]

166. there are no such things as demons

people who have seen them have been brainwashed by UFOs

[Motown_Johnny]

164. you may not like my opinion, but you asked

I believe it is possible that a tiny percentage of unexplained UFOs are extraterrestrial, maybe 1 out of 1000 or so.


I also do not make the assumption that the "beings" in the extraterrestrial crafts are the intelligent creators of the craft. I think it is much more likely that aliens would have "unmanned" probes and not waste their lives in interstellar space. I think what people see are something like trained monkeys who are sent out as frozen embryos. Thawed out en route once the craft is close to it's destination. Trained by virtual reality and/or computers, and are controlled by the computers while they are here. (and discarded once the mission here is completed)


This is why they don't make contact with us. We would not have monkeys make contact for us if we sent them to another planet so don't expect the same to happen in reverse.


So, yes. I think it is very possible we have been visited but not in the way the movies make it out to be.


(I told you that you wouldn't like it)

[redqueen]

169. Why wouldn't I like it? You were civil and everything!

:hi:

[Motown_Johnny]

186. 'cause people want to meet ET, or want to dismiss the whole thing

and I don't allow for either one of those options

[Occam Bandage]

206. Why would they even bother "visiting" with the probes?

You could learn far more about humanity by simply perching somewhere in the solar system and picking up our television and radio broadcasts, without the risk of being seen.

Plus, any civilization capable of launching probes to billions of star systems would also be capable of far better feats of miniaturization. If they wanted to send down probes, why not send down nanoprobes capable of performing all sorts of biological tests on us, inside and out?

[defendandprotect]

254. It's a breeding program ...!!!

[Maru Kitteh]

304. No! It isn't ...!!!

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

308. OK . . . have it your way . .

[Earth Bound Misfit]

177. Never cared for their music....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxksMMBR8JM&feature=related

I'm more of a King Crimson fan. :evilgrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMjniYd4E8

[Motown_Johnny]

189. maybe try some Foo Fighters... they count too

[sellitman]

178. Republicans must be from another planet.

We know they have very, very few human characteristics.

We know they don't care about the human race.

We know they practice mind control.

They must be aliens?

Besides here is proof..........

[Kaleko]

183. Are all these military and government officials crackpots?

See for yourself.

The Disclosure Project - Two-hour Disclosure - Witness Testimony

Part 1 of 2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6552475158249898710

This 2 hour video is a distillation of over 120 hours of video interviews made by Dr. Steven Greer. Dozens of military and government witnesses discuss UFO events and projects they have worked on.

Sections covered are:

*Secrecy Risks: what are the global risks if we do nothing?
*Witness testimony to nuclear weapons that were sent into space and destroyed by UFOs.
*Astronaut and satellite-related testimonials.
*Craft and body retrieval of extraterrestrial origin.
*Secrecy examined: how it works through unacknowledged "special access projects" and compartmentalization.
*The cover-up of space-based weapons.

Part 2 of 2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4694075066240662837&q=&hl=en

[defendandprotect]

256. Discovery Project is great -- few know about it, IMO ---

no reporting by press ...

[Kaleko]

260. Lots of veery interesting stuff on Greer's website

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

Apparently, Steven Greer was summoned to the White House after Bill Clinton was first elected President and asked to fill Bill in on "all that UFO stuff". Bill was genuinely curious and open-minded, or so the story goes.

It turned out that President Clinton could not get the security clearance he needed to look into the things that Greer urged him to open the files on. The old "Continuity of Government" gatekeepers have highly compartmentalized pieces of the real knowledge about what the Pentagon, NASA, CIA etc. have been up to. Presidents are expendable, they come and go every 4 to 8 years and are preferably clueless puppets.

But you know all that, Dap :hi:

[defendandprotect]

307. Yeah . . . Carter got the same msg from Bush, Sr. . . .

"NO" . . .

This is all obviously in CIA hands --- as most of what we need to know is!
\

[Octafish]

187. ''I'd be disappointed if they were merely visitors from another planet.'' -- Jacques Vallee

Vallee suggests the reported behavior of UFOs indicate an intelligent something with the ability to manipulate space, matter and time -- perhaps travelling through other dimensions, realities and universes. So, it may be more than a matter of little green men. We may be getting manipulated -- pushed in certain directions that we are unable to see in our short life spans. Techies and NAZIs shouldn't get too excited at the prospect of contact, either. We may get the visitors we deserve.

[Motown_Johnny]

190. if they are shaping our history, they kinda suck at it

you think our fucked up world would be in much better shape if these we are being manipulated by a higher intelligence


just help us find a clean source of energy for fuck's sake. or help us feed the poor, or control our birth rate in overpopulated parts of the world. (or keep Shrub from winning the recount om 2000)



I can't buy the theory that we are being influenced by a higher power... because we have far to many serious problems for any intelligent race to find acceptable.

[defendandprotect]

257. Wow ...

First ... they may be our ancestors/family ...

Second, supposedly they did advise us on alternative fuel/energy --

See: Exxon-Mobil propaganda over 30-40 years

Also, immediately advised abductees of pollution of planet --

and nuclear catastrophre -- they constantly fly near military bases

and shut down warheads ... seems clear msg --

Also check out the crop circles - pictograms --

one is "Missing Planet" -- Earth is gone from our solar system --

[Kaleko]

263. A photo of the so-called "missing earth" crop circle:

Fig. 3.10 Solar system glyph, Longwood Warren, Hampshire, UK, 22 June 1995.
It depicts the Sun, Mercury, Venus, the Earth’s orbit, Mars, and Jupiter’s orbit.

According to Gerald Hawkins, it shows a planetary alignment that occurred on 6 November 1903,
the day the Wright brothers proved that man could fly, and again on 11 July 1971,
during Mariner 9’s journey to Mars.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________


If we accept this interpretation, we can see that the planet Jupiter is also missing in this pictogram, not just the earth. Other interpretations of the meaning may be out there, I just haven't looked into them.

Source: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/cropcirc1.htm

[defendandprotect]

274. This is accepted as Earth "Missing Planet" . . . .

Jupiter is the fifth planet from the sun --

Earth should be visible in the "third orbit" -- it's missing

&p=nine+planets+solar+system&type=gif&oid=363ed460f718a362&no=4&tt=385&sigr=11jk2prfi&sigi=11biunrsr&sigb=13sqkchm4


Another unbelievgably precise crop circle with the characterists of the solar system,

this one 97 yards in diameter, emerged at the end of fJuly southeast of Winchester.

FOUR "ORBITS" around a central circle were visible.

In our solar system these correspond to the planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars, proceeding

outward from the sun. The formation's "fifth orbit," which lies OUTSIDE and is represented by 65

circles, again resembled theasteroid belt.

It is striking in this configuration that in the "third orbit," which

in our solar system would represent the EARTH, the "planet" is missing.

[cherokeeprogressive]

191. I believe in God, and UFO's.

Neither has any empirical evidence to support their existence. Would belief in one and not the other make me smarter? Or would people just THINK me smarter for agreeing with their views?

UFO's are vehicles piloted by the Flying Spaghetti Monster using remote control. Just checkin' up on his creation don'tcha know.

Actually, UFO's are just what their name implies: Unexplainable things flying. Ball lightning. Moisture in the air bending lightwaves. Drunk hillbillies on their way home in their Chevy pickemup trucks having halucinations. Attention hounds looking for their fifteen minutes. Delusional people who wouldn't know an Extra Terrestrial from the dogshit they stepped in this morning.

When someone proves to me that UFO's are Extra Terrestrials flying disc-shaped craft, and I'll prove to them that God exists. Or not.

Kinda on the fence on this one...

[krispos42]

192. Not extra-terrestrials

As much as I want to know if we're alone or not, I don't think they're extra-terrestrial.


First of all, crossing intersellar distances is hard. Okay, maybe a more advanced civilization can mass-produce starships like we mass-produce locomotives; kinda expensive, but not that bad.

It still takes years and minimum, and decades or centuries to travel between most stars, even at light speed.

And it would require mind-boggling huge amounts of energy to accelerate to and decelerate from that speed. If they were coming here, they would be pointing the exhaust from their fusion drive or anti-matter drive right at us for months, and I'm pretty sure we'd notice something like that.


Okay, okay, we can say that if they want to be sneaky about it, perahps they could approach us from a direction and decelerate on a vector that keep the Sun between us so we don't see it. And then they could, if they were appropriately stealthy, do some gravity-well braking around a couple of different planets to match orbits with us. But that's stretching things quite a bit, IMO.


And then, if they're so advanced, why can't they make their spaceships stealthy? Hell, we can do it now with Stealth fighters and bombers.




And why would they need to come down here, anyway? They could electronically tap into our satellite communications system and download pretty much the entire summation of our knowledge. They could learn far more about our plant and animal life from Wikipedia than they could sending space-suited aliens down with sample tubes and butterfly nets. There are exhaustive university libraries on everything, much of which is publically available. Art, history, languages, religion, politics, cultures... its all already sorted, cross-referenced, analyzed, and indexed.

They could even tap into the internet and appear on anonymous message boards <cough cough> or in online chat rooms to ask questions about things they don't understand! Who knows? Maybe one of the drooling idiot's I've nuked was in fact some alien xenophychologist!



And I don't think they're here to conquer us, either. They could just drop a few dozen "dinosaur-killers" on us, wait for the dust to settle, and colonize a 99.44% human-free planet. None of this invading armies shit. Why bother? We can't stop a mile-wide asteroid, much less a dozen of them. Slam a few of them into the oceans, the giga-tsunamis will wipe out everthing within a few dozen miles of the beaches. The shear amount of water vapor put in the air from the heat of such an impact would make monsoon rains look like a light drizzle while blocking out the sun's light. Whoever didn't die in the giga-tsunamis would die from starvation.




Of course, all of this goes out the window if they have something like antigravity or warp drive. If they do, well, since we can't even figure out the theoretical parameters of such a thing, then anything is possible.

[LanternWaste]

195. Doesn't take very much to convince me we're not alone...

Doesn't take very much to convince me we're not alone. It's a pretty big universe-- I'm sure that what we do know is dwarfed many times over by what we don't know. So I feel pretty safe in allowing the possibility.

Although I'm not nearly as intelligent those on this thread who state, one way or the other with a dogmatic absolutism worthy of a Sunday morning televangelist, I'm still pretty confident that it's only our egos that are keeping the race tight with the sciences.

[JuniperLea]

292. Wish I could rec a post!

Brilliant! Well said.

[BulletproofLandshark]

196. I chose option 1 on your poll.

And I would just add that the History Channel needs to stop polluting the airwaves with their constant UFO tripe and get back to actually talking about history.

[Strathos]

197. I think anyone declaring anything true or false

Is naive. We simply don't know for sure what is out there so to say they do or don't exist is crazy. I believe there is more and I think I've seen some unexplainable things flying in the night and the day.

I do believe to say "we're alone" or those who believe are "kooks" is really wrong, but some people wouldn't believe in a spaceship landed in their front yard and ate their dog or they grandma. LOL


I think the probability of lifeforms other than us out there in that vast emptiness is highly possible. And if they aren't smarter than us, then please stay out there. We have enough republicans. LOL

[Zero Division]

202. Perhaps the real answer is much stranger than the...

most common assumptions about the phenomena. The debunkers have a tendency to want to simply break everything down into the familiar and mundane, whether it fits the eye witness reports and evidence or not. Most believers try to box the phenomena into various narratives that come straight out of popular science fiction. I'm with Dr. Vallée on this question.

[mnmoderatedem]

203. Here's my intelligent (I think) question regarding UFOs

first off, I firmly believe intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe. Out of the billions of stars that exist in our universe, why would our sun be the only star that supports any type of life form? Seems absurd to think otherwise.

On the other hand, the idea that life forms visit our solar system, and our planet, perplexes me a little. I mean, to have some form of space craft that could travel at the speed of light (a VERY rash assumption) that would travel from even the closest star, would take a great many years to travel round trip to our li'l ol' earth would it not? And that's assuming travel at the speed of light. Maybe these li'l green space travelers have a lot of patience and free time on their hands, and play a lot of intergallactic cards games to kill time, but I'm just having a hard time seeing it as reality.

Those far more knowledgable than I can feel free to comment. As usual. :)

[FogerRox]

220. If we had a space ship capable of light speed flight

It would reach the edge of the known universe within the lifetime of the crew that left earth. IIRC I read that in Sky and Telescope mag recently.

[Occam Bandage]

237. And would do so instantly, from their perspective. Of course,

the problem is that getting a ship to light speed is completely and totally impossible. As an object approaches the speed of light, its mass approaches infinity, and thus the energy required to accelerate it approaches infinity. It's asymptotic. And even if you're going at 95% of the speed of light, you'd be long dead by the time you reached another galaxy.

[FogerRox]

241. Oh, youre doing it the old way

LOL.

[Occam Bandage]

243. Did relativity change lately?

[defendandprotect]

324. Well, for one . .. they may be based on the moon. . ..

There are, it seems, "Motherships" -- as well.

Time travel has also been suggested by those close to the subject --

And, there doesn't seem to be 2 or 3 different species ---

evidently, there are hundreds of different species visiting earth.

And many have existed for a billion years before humans.

[redqueen]

204. Is it just me, or does it seem that it's primarily those on one side of this debate

who are more inclined to be nasty, mocking, dismissive, etc?

Puts me right off, it does.

[LanternWaste]

205. Completely off-topic...

"Puts me right off, it does."

That just struck me as funny...

I imagined it as being said with a nineteenth century cockney accent by a house mistress to a gaggle of misbehaving children. :P

Wait for it.... ahhh-- there's the giggle-fits again. lol

[Phoonzang]

215. Yep....but don't tell them that. They'll just mock you even more.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

223. You mean the people you called "childish smartasses?"

Doesn't that strike you as at least a little hypocritical?

[redqueen]

224. I was referring to those on both sides who act that way.

I said above that it was the Air Force guys who were rude to Nye first on the show I watched. Once the researchers and the skeptics were equally repsented it was the skeptics who were more rude.

However, all I'm asking about in the post you responded to is whether or not it seems that one side is like that more often, not whether one is never one way and the other always so.

[anigbrowl]

231. I don't agree

I'm skeptical and I'm sure a lot of people would say I'm nasty-mocking and dismissive. On the other hand, trying to have a politce conversation with a UFO believer and just suggest regular standards of evidence etc. will often end with the skeptic being accused of being close-minded, a supporter of the cover-up, one of the 'sheeple', unintelligent, or whatever. A lot of UFO believers are paranoid and aggressive with it, particularly when asked a direct question they'd rather not answer. In this respect I don't find them much different from religious folk, and I dislike their overbearing assertions of superior knowledge.

I do not think this applies to all people who are interested in UFOs. I'm fascinated by the topic, I just think that in order to move forward with it scientifically there needs to be good evidence to work with. I love science, and I also love science fiction and I also love recreational drugs (though it's been a while since I had time or money to throw around on the latter). I think many valuable insights and therefore knowledge can be gained from the fictional and imaginary realms as well as from the measurable physical realm.

BUT - and it's a big one, which is why I put in caps - while those kinds of knowledge can be mutually supportive, they are not interchangeable. So I might be reading a sci-fi novel or relaxing with a joint and get a great idea for new way to program the computer, say...but until I've actually tried it out and found it to actually work, it isn't functional. Same thing with UFOs; I can imagine many things, and it's fun and interesting to hypothesize about time travel or faster-than-light travel or whatever. Doing so may even lead to productive research. But just because you can conceive of it doesn't mean it necessarily exists.

[Occam Bandage]

235. That's because it isn't really a "debate."

It's like astrologists, young-earth creationists or believers in crystal magic claiming "those on one side of this debate are inclined to be nasty, mocking, and dismissive!"

Well, yes. Because your theories are non-scientific, incoherent, often-contradictory nonsense backed only by unreliable and unverifiable first-hand accounts. They're mental garbage, and garbage gets thrown out.

[Warren Stupidity]

246. oddly some of those same people are having a perfectly reasonable

subthread discussion about why SETI hasn't found anything - about real science not area 51 nonsense, and that conversation is perfectly civil. Perhaps that is because nobody in that subthread is starting off by labeling posters as uncivil childish smartasses?

[redqueen]

250. So you're saying you agree that one side is nastier...

but it's the other side's fault.

Is that it?

As I've already explained, "childish smartasses" wasn't aimed at one camp or the other. Or did you miss that?

[Warren Stupidity]

273. In no. The childish smartasses are having

By your standards a perfectly civil discussion about SETI.
I suspect that is because the hall monitor isn't there declaring who needs a timeout for coloring outside the lines.

[redqueen]

276. I just said there are childish smartasses on both sides. (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

312. "it's primarily those on one side of this debate"

"Is it just me, or does it seem that it's primarily those on one side of this debate who are more inclined to be nasty, mocking, dismissive, etc? Puts me right off, it does."

Who might have said that?

There is no actual debate: space aliens are not visiting earth in flying saucers as there is no actual evidence that such things are happening. Nor is it even likely that such a thing will ever happen. See Fermi's paradox. The 'debate', as has been pointed out, is approximately the same sort of 'debate' as that between creationists and evolutionists. One side is earnestly having what they think is a debate, the other side only gets involved when the utter bullshit of the first side threatens to leak out somewhere it can actually do harm.

For an example of an actual intelligent discussion on alien civilizations, see the subthread here on SETI. No faith in little green aliens in flying saucers is required.

[jayfish]

328. You And You Friend Occam Are Quite Amusing.

You spout off about garbage then point to Fermi's Paradox and SETI as your paragons of scientific understanding? SETI is searching for a needle in an Everest of needles using an electron microscope and Fermi's Paradox is arguable at best. The furthest know galaxy from us is 13 billion light-years away. Homo sapiens are thought to be between 100-300 thousand years old. If a civilization got a 1 million year technological jump on us and developed a method of apparent FTL travel, take your pick of methods (VLS, Quantum tunneling, Casmir Vacuum energy, entanglement) said civilization could have been visiting us since our birth and we wouldn't have radio proof of their existence for another 12.99 billion years. As far as Fermi goes; maybe they are all around us but we have been doing our damnedest to convince ourselves they are not. Hell we don't even know exactly where the we came from and you're going tell me that our "science" has an explanation for anything? Maybe we are alone but we can't prove that we are any more then prove we aren't.

Jay

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0402/15lens/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3814-dawn-of-human-race-uncovered.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/12/soggy-universe.html
http://www.livescience.com/space/081209-st-sweet-molecule.html
http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081209/full/news.2008.1289.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081204074652.htm
http://www.sentientdevelopments.com/2007/05/drake-equation-is-obsolete.html

[Kaleko]

329. "space aliens are not visiting earth in flying saucers as there is no actual evidence

...that such things are happening. Nor is it even likely that such a thing will ever happen."

- Warren Stupidity

Meanwhile, hundreds if not thousands of highly placed officials from all over the world have come forward to testify to the contrary. France, Britain, Brazil, Japan, Australia and other governments have opened parts of their classified UFO files. China encourages its citizens to report incidents of contact and has organized government-sanctioned scientific study groups. The Belgian Air Force has admitted the reality of a huge, triangular E.T. craft seen by thousands of Germans, Belgians and French on TV. I could go on...

Ignorance in this case is not bliss. It's slavery.

[JuniperLea]

278. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Why all the heat?

I also wonder why it's ok to belittle fellow DUers by calling them names in this instance, but God forbid you should tell someone their religion is a myth or they are an idiot for believing what they believe in the way of God stuff.

Does make a person go hmmm...

[redqueen]

283. Well a belief in UFO's of extraterrestrial-origin,

or even an openness to the possibility of them, isn't traditionally given the same kind of deference as religion. So that seems logical I guess. But then if you visit the R/T forum, you might be surprised at the invective flying both ways there, too. Yet there again, it does seem like it's the 'this is all hogwash' crowd that engages in it more often.

:shrug:

[knitter4democracy]

207. Those UnFinished knitting Objects are annoying.

They're all over my house. ;)

[el_bryanto]

208. I am staunchly in favor of UFOs

Except the Anal Probing ones - but you can't let a few bad apples tarnish the whole bunch.

Bryant

[Soylent Brice]

210. my heart told me to vote childish, but my head said to vote

that some are ETs.

does that make me certifiable?

[OneBlueSky]

211. I don't know if we've been "visited" or not, but I do know that . . .

assuming that we're the only "intelligent" life in a universe so vast that the human mind can't comprehend it is pretty self-centered and chauvenistic . . .

if god, or nature, or evolution, or the universe, or whatever created us, seems to me that in the vastness that is creation, he/she/it probably also created others who can, themselves, create . . . just seems like a reasonable assumption to me . . . bwdik? . . .

as for UFOs . . . well, the older I get, the more I realize how little I actually know . . . I fully accept that people have seen UFOs, the key word here being "unidentified" . . . if we knew what they were and where they came from, then they wouldn't be UFOs, would they? . . .

[Phoonzang]

214. Combination of all of the above.

Most are easily explainable phenomenon, misidentified aircraft. Something like 95 percent. The other 5 could very well be alien spacecraft or "vehicles" from some place we can't comprehend.

[Joanne98]

219. I've seen two.

[Iggo]

221. I think they're pretty.

Option #5, obviously.

[tomreedtoon]

233. Psychotic delusions by rednecks and geeks.

When I was a teen I read some of the "official" UFO books like "Flying Saucers - Serious Business." Most of the descriptions of the aliens and their philosophies were warmed-over, non-denominational Christianity in alien garb.

Basically, people saw UFO's and the described aliens when nuclear war became a serious, incomprehensible, immense threat to life on Earth. They weren't getting any answers or solace from traditional religion, so they imagined a form of Christianity not tied to any current churches. (Remember that Christianity in the 1950's was pretty conservative and oppressive.)

I'm not dismissing the idea that there is extraterrestrial intelligent life. Frankly, if they were truly intelligent life, they wouldn't be seen by us, or interact in any way with the human race.

[defendandprotect]

258. Actually, RCC says they have no problem with suggestions ...

Bibical angels are aliens --

Recall the co-mingling ...

We may be hybrids ...

UFO's have been seen long before nuclear weapons, but post-WWII seems to have

caused high interest by them in shutting down our warheads, etc --

Native Americans immediately asked Columbus about crafts seen in skies and visiting

star people -

They are also concerned our space program taking nuclear weapons on board ...

[Ghost in the Machine]

267. Buzz Aldrin & Neil Armstrong were delusional psychotic rednecks and/or geeks?

The following astonishing conversation was picked up by ham radio operators that had their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed NASA's broadcasting outlets. At this time, the live television broadcast was interrupted for two minutes due to a supposed "overheated camera", but the transmission below was received loud and clear by hundreds of ham radio operators:

According to Otto Binder, who was a member of the NASA space team, when the two moon-walkers, Aldrin and Armstrong were making their rounds some distance from the LEM, Armstrong clutched Aldrin's arm excitedly and exclaimed:

Armstrong: What was it? What the hell was it? That's all I want to know!"

Mission Control: What's there?... malfunction (garble) ... Mission Control calling Apollo 11 ...

Apollo 11: These babies were huge, sir!... Enormous!... Oh, God! You wouldn't believe it! ... I'm telling you there are other space-craft out there ... lined up on the far side of the crater edge! ... They're on the Moon watching us!

Wilson writes (p. 48): "Binder ends his report with this observation: 'There has, understandably, been no confirmation of this incredible report by NASA or any authorities. WE cannot vouch for its authenticity, but if true, one can surmise that mission control went into a dither and then into a huddle, after which they sternly the moonwalkers to 'forget' what they saw and carry on casually and calmly as if nothing had happened. After all, an estimated 600 million people around the world were hanging on every word spoken by the first two men to leave footprints on the Moon."

The book "Celestial Raise" by Richard Watson and ASSK records the following (continuation?) of the above remarkable dialogue of Apollo 11, which was picked up by hundreds of ham radio operators in the USA:

"During the transmission of the Moon landing of Armstrong and Aldrin, who journeyed to the Moon in an American spaceship, two minutes of silence occurred in which the image and sound were interrupted. NASA insisted that this problem was the result of one of the television cameras which had overheated, thus interfering with the reception.

This unexpected problem surprised even the most qualified of viewers who were unable to explain how in such a costly project, one of the most essential elements could break down... Some time after the historic Moon landing, Christopher Craft, director of the base in Houston, made some surprising comments when he left NASA.

The contents of these comments, which is included in the conversations , has been corroborated by hundreds of amateur radio operators who had connected their stations to the same frequency through which the astronauts transmitted. During the two minute interruption - which was not as it seemed, NASA, Armstrong and Aldrin with Cape Kennedy, censored both image and sound. 'I say that there were other spaceships.'

Here is reproduced completely the dialogue between the American astronauts and Control Center:

Armstrong & Aldrin: Those are giant things. No, no, no - this is not an optical illusion. No one is going to believe this!

Houston (Christopher Craft): What ... what ... what? What the hell is happening? What's wrong with you?

Armstrong & Aldrin: They're here under the surface.

Houston: What's there? (muffled noise) Emission interrupted; interference control calling 'Apollo 11'.

Armstrong & Aldrin: We saw some visitors. They were here for a while, observing the instruments.

Houston: Repeat your last information!

Armstrong & Aldrin: I say that there were other spaceships. They're lined up in the other side of the crater!

Houston: Repeat, repeat!

Armstrong & Aldrin: Let us sound this orbita ... in 625 to 5 ... Automatic relay connected ... My hands are shaking so badly I can't do anything. Film it? God, if these damned cameras have picked up anything - what then?

Houston: Have you picked up anything?

Armstrong & Aldrin: I didn't have any film at hand. Three shots of the saucers or whatever they were that were ruining the film

Houston: Control, control here. Are you on your way? What is the uproar with the UFOs over?

Armstrong & Aldrin: They've landed here. There they are and they're watching us.

Houston: The mirrors, the mirrors - have you set them up?

Armstrong & Aldrin: Yes, they're in the right place. But whoever made those spaceships surely can come tomorrow and remove them. Over and out.

http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicphotos.html scroll about halfway down the page to: Apollo 11:

"I say that there were other spaceships!"

[Agent William]

236. can't....

way to high.. Good question...

:smoke:

:hi:

[Maru Kitteh]

262. I will not petend certainty.

But I did vote "mostly explainable" because mostly, they are.

[JVS]

266. They fly and cannot be identified.

[Hissyspit]

268. I think they are unnecessarily rude.

[Marr]

271. self-delete

[deutsey]

275. I think it's possible that some are from "out there"

But I'm not sure about how probable it is.

I do believe, however, that it's highly unlikely that Earth is the only planet with life. Of all the suns and planets out there, the odds are against us being the only form of life in the universe.

That doesn't translate into evidence of UFOs from other worlds, but I just wanted to add that as a sidenote.

[TK421]

281. I'm not sure, but one things for certain...my ass really hurts n/t

[Ghost in the Machine]

313. pull your head out of there and the pain will go away...

*rimshot*

Hey, you left the door open, I just walked through it :-)

:hi:

[TK421]

314. lol

:D so I did!

[galledgoblin]

290. mostly explainable phenomena, but maybe some could be visitors

although why they would be interested in us is beyond me, unless they are basically anthropologists interested in primitive, developing species that have a glimmer of potential unless they kill themselves off... or maybe primitive, developing species likely to kill themselves off within the short study period.

[Maru Kitteh]

291. I don't know. To lease - or buy? I want a red one next time.

They devalue by half as soon as you drive off the lot, but 0% financing and free UFO fuel for a year is kind of hard to pass up.

[Bucky]

293. UFOs are the result of Blagojevich's corruption

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

294. I tend to be skeptical about it until I see actual proof

but I'm certainly not going to make fun of those who claim that they're real, as I can't know one way or the other. I'm particularly shocked at the numbers of people who have claimed to have seen alien bodies in the Roswell incident. We're not talking about individuals making money on it or kooks. Person after person after person including several military officers and registered nurses, including individuals on their death beds have claimed that they did see little bodies of aliens recovered from the crash site. Again, I won't believe until I see it but I'm not going to be arrogant enough or full of myself enough to think that I know the truth one way or the other.

[madokie]

295. Considering that the heavens is so vast I believe there could be other

life that could make a ship that could make it to here. We've got a couple vehicles on mars right now.

Check out some of the pictures from hubble and tell me that in all those millions/billions of stars/suns with planets revolving around them there is no life out there. To me that is absurd to even entertain the thought.

[bridgit]

302. I've seen'em

[Cetacea]

303. Human hubris. Maybe ETs are rather visiting Cetaceans.

After all, they have adapted and lived in harmony with themselves and their environment for 30-50 million years and have built-in technology like (presumably) 3d holographic sonar that make our systems look silly.
Also, they live in the medium that comprises seventy percent of the earths surface.

The toxins in our air would probably make an ET's head explode.:nuke:

[defendandprotect]

316. Gov. Symington admits he saw the UFO -

Video --

"It was enormous. Otherworldly."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3zotvpZLnY&feature=related




Other interesting crop circle videos -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoR2t-iM9k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS56XkWfpcY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqhvmEIZG0o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugq6frGlKVQ&feature=related

[lonestarnot]

317. No opinion.

:D

[Poll_Blind]

326. I wish they existed but I just can't find any proof. Not the kind that visit....

...Earth, anyway.

PB

[Dumak]

330. My theory is that the galaxy is teeming with intelligent life

Go to pretty much any star system, and you will find intelligent life. Most of it not even on planetary surfaces, but evolved for life in space. Both artificial and biological life, and some life that blurs the distinction. And I shouldn't even have to mention how painfully obvious it would be that they wouldn't want to "mess" with civilizations such as ours because we are at a truly special point in our development - something they aren't going to see very often.

So, some of you might ask (perhaps having watched far too much Carl Sagan), "how does all this life travel such vast distances in space?". And the answer is that it doesn't have to - by the miracle of self-replication (both the life forms and their living environments), it simply expands to fill the available space.

[Klimmer777]

332. Disclosure --- it's what's for the New Year!

John Podesta will be working directly with the Obama/Biden administration as the Co-chairman of Obama’s transition team:
http://www.truveo.com/John-Podesta-UFO-Disclosure/id/1488847134

Pope confirms Aliens are real:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSFqNo0PhJU&feature=related

The following images are official NASA Apollo 15 images from the Lunar Planetary Institute, Apollo Image Atlas, on the backside of the Moon near Latitude 19 degrees S; Longitude 117.5 degrees E. The spacecraft is there and easily seen!

Resources:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/mapcatalog/apolloindex/apollo15/as15indexmap01/
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS15-P-9625
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS15-P-9630

The following are enlarged and cropped stereo pair images from the above resources. Print and view them in 3D with a simple handheld stereo glass pair for photogrammetry. From the image data you can determine the unit less Scale Factor of the images: Lens Focal Length/Camera Altitude = 24 inch/117km = 1/191,929.13. From here measure the length of the crashed Alien Spacecraft (apparently visited by Apollo 20, Commander William Rutledge et al. in 1976) and scale it out. The spacecraft is approx. 3.26km in length and about 500m high/wide. You would certainly have to use your climbing skills to explore this puppy! Sorry, but we don’t have anything that big, and neither do the Russians! NASA and the Lunar Planetary Institute are not hiding it anymore. Amazing.

These are certainly interesting times we live in. Now the question is who were these Aliens? Friend or Foe? Some say the Nephalim as mentioned in the Bible. Who knows? One thing is for sure we need to get back to the Moon and then onto Mars. It is our destiny to explore. Exploring and doing science are good --- NWO, war, and war profiteering are bad. Man is a very curious creature, and we are explorers at heart. That is what we do.

Happy New Year!


Enlargement from Map and Photo index for Apollo 15, Rev 38:


Enlargement from AS15-P-9625:


Enlargement from AS15-P-9630:


Same images enlarged for stereo for easier stereo viewing:





Here are resources concerning the story of Apollo 20/Commander William Rutledge, and now Apollo 19/Moonwalker1966delta. If this is a hoax it is a damn good one and should be made into a Hollywood blockbuster movie. Many people would have had to go out of their way to fake this and do so at great expense and time. I just don’t think people are that motivated to fool people when there is nothing for them to gain financially (or otherwise), and then only at a significant level. People are pretty much lazy unless they get something for their efforts. Would our government be behind such a hoax? Isn’t it cheaper just to deny it all? No matter what, the images from NASA above of the crashed spacecraft are as real as it gets:

http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/home-ENG.htm
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/REPORTS_ARTICLES/Apollo20-InterviewWithWilliamRutledge.htm
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/REPORTS_ARTICLES/Apollo19CDR-interview.htm
http://www.revver.com/u/retiredafb/
Moonwalker1966delta at Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQMTbsePb7Q

http://www.ramistrip.com/


NASA --- Apollo 20 Crew Patch:





Edit:

Here is a great resource for stereoscopes . . .

http://ascscientific.com/stereos.html

I have the Sokkia Pocket Stereoscope


Anyway, enjoy!

[Ghost in the Machine]

333. Neil Armstrong - "We were 'warned off' (by the Aliens)"...

A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was
engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA
symposium.


Professor: What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11?



Armstrong: It was incredible, of course we had always
known there was a possibility, the fact is,
we were warned off!(by the Aliens). There was
never any question then of a space station or a
moon city.



Professor: How do you mean "warned off"?



Armstrong: I can't go into details, except to say that
their ships were far superior to ours both in
size and technology - Boy, were they
big!...and menacing!
No, there is no question of a space station.



Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11?



Armstrong: Naturally - NASA was committed at that time,
and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really
was a quick scoop and back again.


Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to
go into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind
the cover-up.

http://www.congressunderfire.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=edit&forum=109&topic_id=83&mesg_id=84

[Klimmer777]

335. GITM --- can you source this discussion between Neil Armstrong . . .

and the professor? I would like to read where this was first mentioned. Thanks.

Klimmer777

[Ghost in the Machine]

336. The only source I have is where I read it...

Welcome to DU, Klimmer777

Here's a little bit more, and a link:

" According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed
radio hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed
NASA's broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange:

NASA: Whats there?
Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

Apollo11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous!
OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it!
I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there,
Lined up on the far side of the crater edge!
They're on the Moon watching us!

In 1979 Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA
Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed
reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. "The encounter
was common knowledge in NASA," he revealed, "but nobody has
talked about it until now."

Soviet scientists were allegedly the first to confirm
the incident. "According to our information, the encounter
was reported immediately after the landing of the module," said
Dr. Vladimir Azhazha, a physicist and Professor of
Mathematics at Moscow University. "Neil Armstrong relayed the
message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects
were watching them after having landed near the moon module.
But his message was never heard by the public - because NASA
censored it. "According to another Soviet scientist, Dr.
Aleksandr Kazantsev, Buss Aldrin took color movie film of the
UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after
he and Armstrong went outside. Dr. Azhazha claims that the
UFOs departed minutes after the astronauts came out on to the
lunar surface.

Maurice Chatelain also confirmed that Apollo 11's
radio transmissions were interrupted on several occasions in
order to hide the news from the public. Before dismissing
Chatelain's sensational claims, it is worth noting his
impressive background in the aerospace industry and space
program. His first job after moving from France was as an
electronics engineer with Convair, specializing in
telecommunications, telemetry and radar. In 1959 he was in
charge of an electromagnetic research group, developing new
radar and telecommunications systems for Ryan. One of his
eleven patents was an automatic radar landing system that
ignited retro rockets at a given altitude, used in the
Ranger and Surveyor flights to the Moon. Later, at North
American Aviation, Chatelain was offered the job of designing
and building the Apollo communications and data-processing
systems.

Chatelain claims that "all Apollo and Gemini flights
were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite
closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - flying
saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name.
Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission
Control, who then ordered absolute silence." He goes on to
say:

"I think that Walter Schirra aboard Mercury 8 was the
first of the astronauts to use the code name 'Santa Claus'
to indicate the presence of flying saucers next to space
capsules. However, his announcements were barely noticed by the
general public. It was a little different when James Lovell
on board the Apollo 8 command module came out from behind the
moon and said for everybody to hear: 'PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT
THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.' Even though this happened on
Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a hidden meaning in those
words."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/moonbase.htm

[Klimmer777]

342. GITM --- Thank you!

Here is another official image from NASA, and this structure is on Mars!

Scale: 1 pixel= 4.47m. From my calculations: Giant dome or Golf ball is approx. 38 pixels in diameter; approx. 169.86m = 554.00ft in diameter; the crater diameter is approx. 96 pixels; 429.12m = 1407.51ft in diameter.

Mars Global Surveyor MOC Image m1501228



Links:
http://ida.wr.usgs.gov/html/m15012/m1501228.html

[KakistocracyHater]

334. due to the woodcuts, paintings, drawings

of the Virgin Mary with airships/spherical objects, as well as what can be seen on the internets, & with the addition of a book I read from the library, I think it was called "how to avoid being kidnapped by aliens". It was quite intriguing, they went all over the world & discovered that "magick" seemed to ward 'them' off. They even interviewed an Arab & he called 'the grays' Jinn. They pointed out the many similarities to faeries & other mythical/imaginary beings. Voodoo would not give pause to the US army-but it DID stop 'aliens'.

Also the word alien is an old word, & it means something superior, from above....it is even used to describe the Judeo/Christian/Muslim god, aliyan, el elyan-highest of the high, also like the singer Aliyah.

I think they are 'interior' rather than extra-terrestrial....

[Occam Bandage]

340. The word "alien" comes from Latin "alienus" meaning "of another," from the word

"alius," meaning "other*." It does not mean "superior" or "above." It simply means "other." It has absolutely no linguistic relation to any words in any Semitic language. The first use of "alien" as an adjective to refer to the extraterrestrial was in a science-fiction short story published in 1944. The first use of "alien" as a noun was in the 1950s.

Given your book's complete ignorance of etymology, I'd be highly suspect of any other claims it makes.


* "alius" is also seen in inflected forms in the words "alibi" and "alias," and the word "else" is cognate to "alius" through their shared Proto-Indo-European root.