Isn't is a little strange that Sarah Palin (a healthy young mother) doesn't release her Med Records?

[KoKo]

What the hell is going on here? She has Five Children and the youngest is only FIVE MONTHS OLD! She looks robust and in the "prime of her life!" What could be in there that she hasn't released them?

All she could have at her age is a few "Pap Smear" questionable results. Obviously she's healthy or she couldn't have delivered a baby just Five Months Ago and be on the Campaign Trail 24/7 with her family if she had any kind of impairment.

What's with that? :shrug:

[greenbriar]

1. maybe the number of live births ect...........

hummmmmmmmm

[seemslikeadream]

2. pregnancy?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4274766&mesg_id=4274766

[GodlessBiker]

20. Termination of a pregnancy?

[seemslikeadream]

22. non existance pregnancy

[GodlessBiker]

36. I mean before that one...somewhere in her past.

[onfiredem]

146. I am thinking the same thing.

[NeedleCast]

3. When did medical records become an issue?

Palin is an idiot but why should I care about her medical records?

[KoKo]

5. If something happens to McCain then she's the "Commander-in-Chief."

What if she has some med problem...?

[NeedleCast]

12. Next in line would take over

They've planned for this sort of thing, you know? Sec of State is next in line (I think).

Shit like this wasn't important until the information age. How would you react to an employer demanding your medical records?

[aquart]

26. Secretary of State? Dear Lord.

No, honey. If McCain wins and both he and Palin bite it, Pelosi gets to be the second woman president.

[LisaL]

80. Do you realize that her finger might end up on the "button?"

I for one want to know what her mental health is.

[verges]

112. After VP it's Speaker of the House.

Unless it's Al Haig as Sec of State. Then it goes: 1)POTUS 2)Sec of State 3)VP.

[NeedleCast]

118. Thanx for Correction

My bad.

[yardwork]

130. It's Al Haig's fault, not yours.

[Bluebear]

6. What if she's on heavy anti-psychotics, etc? I think people would like to know

[EFerrari]

8. I don't think she is because they are usually very sedating.

They clear your head but they also make you sleepy. It doesn't look like there's anything wrong with her energy level.

It's something else, imho.

[Bluebear]

16. Sorry, I meant to post that I SUGGEST anti-psychotics for her

:)

[EFerrari]

25. LOL!

I suggest a big pillar of salt.

[NeedleCast]

13. But people don't have a RIGHT to know

How would you react to an employer demanding your medical history?

If some DUer came here and posted a thread saying their employer demanded their medical history before hiring them there'd be a 300 post shit-storm of people crying fascism.

[KoKo]

19. I understand what you say...but maybe being Presidential Contender...requires a higher level

of scrutiny? I hear what you are saying is: "It's a double standard." Why should I give up MY RIGHT TO PRIVACY because folks want to know if a candidate for President meets some standard that I wouldn't want to give up "my privacy" to meet.

I think it's an interesting question.

"Should Presidents/Vice Presidents be held to a higher standard of scrutiny than the rest of us?

What does it mean for the "Right of Privacy for all of us?"

:shrug:

[KoKo]

24. I'll be crude and paraphrase an old Michael Jackson song..."The Kid is not (Her) My Own."

...who knows why she wouldn't want that stuff released.

[NeedleCast]

46. This level of scrutiny is relativly new

It's amazing that we managed to elect presidents for over 200 years without having to know about their medical records, tax returns and other private information. Where were Lincoln's tax returns? I hear George Washington had wooden teeth! How could we elect a president with wooden teeth!?! This sort of scrutiny has turned campaigning into a circus and that's part of what's wrong with the system. People might not know where Palin stands on economic issues but if we push hard enough we should be able to get pictures of her cervical exam.

Is it not enough that Palin is a fundie, dominionist nutter ultra-conservative? I know that I don't like Palin in spite of the fact that I don't know her medical history. I don't NEED to know her medical history. If she is the Adonis of feminine health and fitness with a perfectly clean bill of health it would not change my negative opinion of her at all.

Lets say the roles were reversed and that Obama was a 72 year old man with a history of cancer vs a young, vibrant John McCain, but they still held the same political ideals. Would you vote for McCain?

This sort of negative attacking from our side doesn't serve us any better than it does Republicans, and if polls are any indication, Americas are sick to death of the negativity.

I can understand some basic levels of scrutiny. Drug testing I might be okay with. I'd prefer a president who can sometimes say fuck it and smoke a joint. Other medical history is not an issue for me.

[EFerrari]

31. I think the country has every right to know if the candidate has a problem iwith psychotic episodes.

[NeedleCast]

51. Which almost certainly wouldn't come up on a physical exam...

[EFerrari]

52. Yes, it would come up on a blood panel if she was on medication.

[NeedleCast]

56. If she were taking medication

Of course, if she wasn't....

[EFerrari]

57. If she wasn't, she wouldn't be as functional as she is.

Really, what is your agenda?

This woman obviously has some kind of Axis II problem. It's just a matter of time before we find out exactly what it is.

[NeedleCast]

59. My agenda is personal privacy

and I don't like it being violated whether its yours or mine or Sarah Palins.

You say she's got some kind of mental problem, I say she's a typical fundie. If you want to make the argument that all people who agree with Sarah Palin have mental issues, good luck with that.

So where do you draw the line? Who's medical records should we be allowed to pry into in the name of due disclosure? You're obviously a yes for President and VP.

What about senators? Should we get to see their medical records? Congress critters?

How far do we take this? Stop me when I get to a level where you think people are entitle to some level of privacy.

Govs?
State level congresses and senates?
Mayors?
City counsels?
Your local school board?

Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that forcing people to disclose private medical information is a progressive principal.

[EFerrari]

61. I don't need to convince you of anything. That's not my job.

But the requirements to be the commander in chief of the United States are stringent and I'm glad you're not deciding them.

[NeedleCast]

62. Nice Dodge

Please tell me where the medical requirements to be President of the US are spelled out so I can go read them.

I'll ask again...at what point do you think people running for an elected office have some right to medical privacy? Do you think Senators and congress men and women should have to turn over their medical records for public scrutiny? State governors? State Congress/Senate? Mayors of big cities? All mayors? Local level sheriffs, counsels, school boards, commissions?

[EFerrari]

66. Dodge, my @ss. When my school board can deploy nukes,

then you betcha they need to be screened.

And as a longtime family mental health rights advocate and as someone who lived with severe mental illness in my family for many years, your argument is ridiculous.

[NeedleCast]

69. Will you not answer the question?

At what point do you think politicians are entitled to medical privacy, if any? Do you think a full medical disclosure should apply only to the President/VP? Think it should go further than that? If so, how far should we take it?

[EFerrari]

70. Willful ignorance. n/t

[NeedleCast]

75. I'm willfully ignorant beccause you wont answer a question?

Insults all you have?

I've tried to nicely ask you a question that you refuse to answer. I don't know why you wont answer it, but that's up to you. I'm just curious as to what level you think it's okay for a politician to keep their medical records private, if any.

You don't want to answer, that's fine, but no need to insult me.

[EFerrari]

79. Maybe you have a reading problem, then, as you did get an answer.

But, I suspect you've never dealt with a psychotic person in close quarters.

I suspect this is all academic for you.

My life has been in the hands of a psychotic person. It's not an abstraction for me in any way.

If you want to occupy the Oval Office, you need to come clean. In fact, if you want to live in my house or administer my money, you need to come clean. If you are in charge of the safety or welfare of any group of people, yes, you need to come clean.

People who deal with psychosis have a lot on their hands. And so does anyone who depends on them. To claim that somehow the privacy of that individual trumps the greater good of the group is simply unethical. Not to mention, stupid.

[NeedleCast]

83. Your further insults aside...

Do you have a medical history for your banker?

Its only academic for me in the fact that I believe in a certain right to privacy. And you do have a point in that I think perhaps a drug screening would be beneficial. I have doubts that a person with a real psychosis would be able to get to Palin's position without it coming up at some point, but I could be wrong.

You work with people with mental conditions? Do you give them your medical history?

Let me ask you one more question...if Palin were to disclose her medical records and was given a clean bill of health, would you believe the results?

[EFerrari]

87. No, it is academic to you. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You have no idea what someone in that position deals with or can bear.

And you can continue to ask away but it only serves to show how little of a grasp you have on this issue. Be my guest.

[NeedleCast]

99. Enlighten me then

What's your deal? Why do you continue with the attacks? I've done nothing but ask you questions. If I'm so far off base, enlighten me...or don't, but really, why the insults? Having been on DU awhile and having read many of your posts, I understand that you attack and are dismissive of all who dare disagree with you, but damn.

If Palin's medical records came back 100% clean, would you believe the diagnosis? And even if that diagnosis were true, would it change your opinion of Palin? As far as I'm concerned, she could be clean as a whistle and I'd still pretty much despise her, and that's not a word I use often.

Conversely, if it came out that she was shit-house bonkers, do you think it would change how the Republican base sees her? At this point in the election cycle, it could come out that Palin chases unicorns and goblins,naked, on nights of the new moon and I doubt there are a whole lot of voters who would change who they're voting for. Republican base would probably attribute it to some Jesus-induced miracle and start doing the same...

[EFerrari]

104. Actually, if you go back over this exchange, the language

and goal post shifting is very much in your posts, not mine.

It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is that the next CIC and the Vice are screened. That's what matters.

[NeedleCast]

110. Hahaha, okay

So far you've accused me of being willfully ignorant, being illiterate, and having "no grasp" of this issue based on the fact that I disagree with you...but yeah, I'm the aggressor.

I've asked you a few questions about mental health and medical disclosure since you are, as it were, in the business. You've refused to answer most, which is fine, although a simple "I'm not going to answer that" would have sufficed in place of the name-calling.

Anywho, I'll just agree to disagree that medical records should be an issue and move along.

[EFerrari]

111. There has been no refusal on my part whatsoever.

That's just silly. lol

[NeedleCast]

115. k

[EFerrari]

116. One of the things you get used to when you live with someone

who goes into psychotic states is pseudo logic.

It goes on forever until you just agree. :)

[verges]

119. But it might change a supporter's view.

"If Palin's medical records came back 100% clean, would you believe the diagnosis? And even if that diagnosis were true, would it change your opinion of Palin? As far as I'm concerned, she could be clean as a whistle and I'd still pretty much despise her, and that's not a word I use often."

If it's discovered she's had three abortions, or that she has had problems with alcohol or drug addiction, it might change the views of some who would otherwise vote Republican.

[NeedleCast]

126. Maybe

Still, in this era of spin, stuff like that just hasn't been getting much traction. Palin has a pregnant teen daughter and instead of the fundies coming down on her for sex out of wedlock they've turned her into a hero of the anti-abortion movement.

More and more, you need a devastating level of proof for stuff like this to stick and do damage. Short of Palin being caught on tape with her lips around a crack pipe, the standard talking hands would just spin it as unfair attacks on the poor wittle hockey mom. Attacking people on stuff like this tends to backfire and engender sympathy for them.

Hell, Palin is one of the best things that happened to Obama. She may have energized the Republican base but she seems to have pretty much universally turned off moderates/independents. Not like Obama was likely to win over the bible-thumping, dominionist, fundies anyway.

[truth2power]

84. I'm interested in why you showed up here just when

the issue was Palin disclosing her records. I do believe Biden disclosed his, and McCain (grudgingly) released his if you want to call it that.

I read something about Obama's cholesterol level recently, so I assume he released his, or a summary thereof.

Why shouldn't Sarah release hers? You know what the surveillance-state advocates are always saying. If you don't have anything to hide....

[NeedleCast]

107. I showed up here a few years ago actually

Check my profile...I didn't show up just to participate in this thread, I assure you.

My point is, and has been all along, that I really don't give a can of turds if there's something physically wrong with Palin. I don't care if all of her kids are from different father or fathered by aliens. I don't care if she's hiding a 2nd head in her bosom. I don't care if she has a club foot or six fingers on her left hand.

I DO care about her politics, which I very strongly disagree with. That's really all that matters for me as far as electing officials goes, along with a critical eye on their moral character, and I don't need a medical examination to tell me that Palin is one nutty lady in regard to both her politics and her morals.

Bottom line for me is that, healthy or not, I wouldn't vote for McCain/Palin if you put a gun to my head.

[truth2power]

150. I guess I'm just suspicious of everyone these days. I delude myself into thinking

that if it were discovered that, for example, she had lied about her "pregnancy" the dittoheads would see her for the duplicitous POS she really is. Fat chance, I suppose!

I don't know why I persist in trying to be rational.

[pitohui]

35. er, you have to pass a medical screen to get hired for almost any job

what, are you serious? what planet do you live on?

i have had to produce a medical screen to wait on fucking tables!

[NeedleCast]

63. Was it released to the general public?

See, there's difference.

[pitohui]

81. there is? what difference?

i have no idea who all saw it, i assume anyone and everyone in america who wanted to -- that is, anyone who wished to hire me in the restaurant business certainly

so there is no difference as far as i can tell

you want a job, you have to pass the medical screen, pretty basic really, until i don't have to do so i'm not giving some old rich people a pass

i believe in equality, apparently you don't, you favor special protection for the elite

[NeedleCast]

90. In my life

I have held the following jobs

Newspaper sales (age 15)
Busboy (age 16)
Tele-marketer (sorry...age 16)
Grocery bagger (age 17)
Grocery checker (age 17)
Deli counter (age 18)
Pizza delivery (age 19-21)
Waiter (age 20-22)
Courier (ageo 20-22)
Software Store clerk (22-23)
Software store manager (23)
US Army (23-28)
Defense contractor (29-30)
US Army (30-31)
Software trainer (31-34)
Technical Trainer/Developer (34-current age)

Two of those jobs required a drug test. One of them required an actual physical.

I don't know who you've worked for, but physical examinations are not the norm for jobs that don't have physical requirements, and even some that do.

You have it backward. I favor equality and privacy for all. You appear to believe that people are not entitled to privacy based on occupation.

[alarimer]

135. I agree with you actually.

I do not care about their medical records. I can tell the McCain is an old, doddering fool without them. I do care about privacy, even theirs, because it just seems intrusive and unnecessary. Reagan's medical record would have shown his Alzheimer's so it's always incomplete and of course they only really show what they want to. It's meaningless anyway.

[LisaL]

94. Yea, there is a difference.

Your finger will not be on the "button." A big difference, don't you think?
Jeez.
Biden released his records. WTF are you arguing she shouldn't release hers?

[NeedleCast]

101. Because I believe people have a right to privacy

Even politicians running for office.

If it turned out Palin had some illness would it change who you're voting for?

Do you think it would change who the Republican base is voting for?

[verges]

124. Do you think it would change who the Republican base is voting for?

Possibly.

[NeedleCast]

127. No offense, but have you met the Republican base lately?

They're the ones who think Obama is a Muslim terrorist/socialist/marxist/satanist/....plus, he's black.

They aren't voting for Obama.

WHo knows, maybe you're right, but I think attacking over this issue is much more likely to backfire.

[Occulus]

152. "If it turned out Palin had some illness would it change who you're voting for?"

If I knew that Obama had epilepsy, it very well might influence my vote, or at least force me to justify voting for him because Biden was waiting in the wings. If I found out Obama currently has lung cancer, it would force me to closely examine Biden, as there would stand a good chance that he would end up performing the duties of POTUS at some point.

If I knew Palin was on anti-psychotics, it would certainly influence my opinion of the McCain campaign as a whole, his choice of running mate, etc. But that's not a problem, because I already know information about McCain's health that falls into your categories of abject concern, and it already has influenced my opinion of his ability to execute his duties as POTUS.

The health records of the POTUS and VPOTUS should be open source information. We should demand it. The course of our national history could be defined by their health issues.

Do I need to spell it out any further, or do you finally get it?

[verges]

123. Aren't we the people

doing the hiring in this instance? Supposedly they are going to work for us.

[Liberal_in_LA]

142. No you don't.

[Bluebear]

37. My employer demanded and demands random drug tests, for example

Why shouldn't Palin?

[NeedleCast]

48. Drug test I'm okay with

But that's not what the OP is asking for, is it?

[Ignis]

132. So you'd be happy if we forced Palin to pee in a cup...

But we're not allowed to know if she has a brain tumor that "tells" her to push the big red button?

Oooooooooooooookay.

I guess privacy only matters when urine isn't involved? :shrug:

[enuegii]

44. Uh, the last place I worked required a physical exam...

before they would hire me, or anyone else, for that matter. Standard procedure.

[NeedleCast]

50. Is there some physical aspect of your work that requires it?

I somehow doubt that politicians have to worry about a lot of heavy lifting.

[RainDog]

68. She is applying to be the next leader of the United States

and traditionally the candidates release their medical records to show they are sound of mind and body.

Do you not know that this is a long-standing tradition?

If someone is going to be president, they deserve quite a bit more scrutiny than if you're hiring him or her to work the midnight shift at the BP on the highway. There are various professions that require medical checks in order to perform the job. Astronaut is another one. People who run trains are subject to unannounced drug tests.

I think the presidency is at least as important as those two. Have you never heard about the annual physicals for presidents, either? This isn't specific to Palin. What's strange is that there is not public record, imo.

[NeedleCast]

71. Okay, so I'll ask you the same question I can't get another poster to answer

At what level, if any, are elected people allowed to keep their medical records private? Should this only apply to president/VP? Should full medical disclosure go further? Senate? Congress? Governors? Mayors?

It really isn't that long-standing. It's only in the era of intense, immediate media scrutiny that this has become an "issue."

I agree that a high level of scrutiny is required, I'm just not convinced that medical records would have any influence on who I'd vote for.

People keep bringing up the fact that some jobs have physical requirements but you're comparing apples to oranges. No one is asking any of the candidates to heft 50 pound bags of potatoes, or pass a NASA stress test because those are not requirements of the position.

[LisaL]

78. McCain is 72 years old with a history of cancer.

Sarah Palin would be next in line if McCain was elected and then happen to die in office.
And you are telling we shouldn't care what her medical history is?
Right.

[NeedleCast]

113. Yeah, that's pretty much wehat I'm telling you

Is this really hard to understand?

I don't care about Palin's medical history. I don't care because even if she was perfectly healthy I wouldn't vote for McCain/Palin. Neither would most other people who are voting for Obama.

I don't want McCain in any elected office. I want Palin even less. Her medical history, or the lack of it, will not change my opinion of Palin. Nor, I imagine, would it change the rest of America's opinion of Palin.

What do you think medical disclosure would change? You think there's something in her medical history that's going to be a big game changer two weeks before the election? Short of being a raving lunatic (and, I admit, I kinda think she is, but I'm biased), what do you think a medical disclosure is going to change? We already know that the Republican base will continue to fawn over her regardless. Her teen daughter had a child out of wedlock and the fundies love it! She choose life, hooray, what a noble girl...of course they choose to ignore the other implications because that's what fundies do.

[LisaL]

136. How do you know there isn't something that could be a big

game changer in her medical history? Why is she refusing to disclose it? Biden did.
Is she hiding something? I want to know, and I don't care that you don't.

[RainDog]

145. we disagree, then

I don't care if you think it's okay to keep her medical history secret. I don't think that's okay. I think the president of the U.S. needs greater scrutiny than any other office in this land and if that person has a history of illness, etc. then that should be information available to the American people when making a decision to vote for someone or not.

It really doesn't matter if it's Palin or someone else.

[LisaL]

77. What do you mean people don't have a right to know?

Biden released his medical history.

[NeedleCast]

117. That's fine

Good on Biden.

However, if both Biden and Obama had chosen NOT to release their medical records, I'd still vote for them. Wouldn't you?

Here are issues I am voting on:
Economy
War
Environment
Health Care
...
this list goes on for awhile, I'll spare us both.

Here are issues I'm not voting on:
Who's healthiest

Like I said elsewhere, medical history just isn't an issue for me. If Obama were a 72 year old cancer survivor and McCain a 40 year old in good health but they held the same political beliefs, I'd still be voting for Obama. You?

[verges]

125. How about if Obama

were a 72 year old multiple cancer survivor with a complete incompetent as a running mate?

[NeedleCast]

129. That would be a problem for me

but McCain HAS disclosed his medical records (sort of).

But again, there are no circumstances under which I'd vote for McCain (okay, that's not totally true, but lets say those circumstances would have to be pretty dire). On a 1-10 scale of people I don't like, McCain is about an 8 and Palin is about a 9, so not a big difference for me.

There are so many things about Palin that I don't like that her medical history or lack thereof is not very important. I'd rather NONE of the candidates feel it necessary to turn over this kind of information. I think it's kinda sad that this is an issue. Mental history might be an issue but shit, if we're going to start pshycho-analyzing candidates i doubt we'd ever elect anyone. I'm okay with not running down that slippery slope.

[verges]

131. You keep saying that YOUR vote won't change.

Good. I would hope not. However, I'm told that there are a lot of undecideds out there. These are the folks that need to be tipped our way. Not you. Your already there.

Now, let's suppose that there is something questionable in there. Mightn't something that smacks of hypocrisy (say a couple abortions) swing an undecided voter? Don't you think being under the treatment of a Psychiatrist (I'm not saying she has been) might sway someone vacillating?

This is war. And public figures who have entered the public discourse voluntarily have no privacy. No one is forcing her to run. If she withdraws, the requests for her records will then cease. But, since she isn't going to withdraw; and all the three men have disclosed to a degree, it seems reasonable to expect her to comply as well. By not complying, she indicates that there may be something wrong and that we should be concerned.

Further note: The Presidency is a very difficult and gruelling job. Shouldn't we be concerned that she is physically up to the task that she is only 72 year old hearbeat away from?

[shimmergal]

151. Question.

People keep saying that if Palin had an abortion (or two or three...) it might make a difference to some potential voters.

I'm not sure that it would necessarily show up in her regular doctor's med. records. I mean--if she had it elsewhere--maybe under an assumed name--and didn't tell her primary care doctor, or other medical personnel whom she regularly deals with -- both of which are likely, considering her pro-life-all-the-way position, is there any way to tell just from a physical exam? And/or to distinguish an induced abortion from an accidental miscarriage, if it's been some time ago?

I don't know, but would appreciate input from any medically-trained people here. Offhand it seems unlikely to be provable, at least in a woman who's had several children. ? ? ?

[AirmensMom]

106. I'm with you, NeedleCast. n/t

[Starbucks Anarchist]

121. What you or I do doesn't affect billions of people.

[verges]

114. If so....

they ain't workin'. She IS psychotic!

[pitohui]

34. presidential medical records are public records AND SHOULD BE

even reagan had to acknowledge when he had a cancer chopped off the end of his lying nose

they are faked and fudged -- he didn't acknowledge his dementia until after he left office -- but they are at least offered to the public

this chick ain't even pretending to play the game

she doesn't respect us enough to even pretend that she's mentally/physically fit for office

[NeedleCast]

64. Chick? Broad?

You must be confused about where you're at...

[RB TexLa]

109. Agreed, and as every single American does, she has the right to medical privacy.

[onfiredem]

148. It is common practice that medical records be released when you run for a high government post

McCain also refused to release his records. What is going on?

[livetohike]

4. Mental illness is my guess n/t

[EFerrari]

7. Mine, too. And / or drug history.

[livetohike]

My mother (77 years old) thinks it's drug history n/t

[EFerrari]

18. Her two oldest kids look to have a problem and Todd doesn't look clean.

What are the chances? Our kids' problems don't come out of nowhere.

[Fumesucker]

21. What about families that have one or more "good" children and one or more "problem" children?

No one can predict how any given child will turn out and it isn't always the parents fault if one doesn't turn out to be a "good" person.

[EFerrari]

29. Families that ID their kids as "good" and "bad" have a problem.

And, this isn't about a parent's "fault" but about how families tend to reproduce problems. Hey, all families have one or some. :)

[Fumesucker]

39. Why do you think I put "good" and "problem" in quotes?

I don't think that way myself, but I know that a lot of people do.

Having been something of a "problem" child myself, through no fault of my parents at all, I can appreciate the distinctions..

[EFerrari]

41. Sure. I have a kid out there on meth that I haven't heard from in two years.

I don't say that lightly but, it happens to be true.

The Palin family is not well. It's pretty obvious to those of us who've had to get honest about our own families, about ourselves, and who've had to think over how these problems replicate themselves.

I wasn't a "problem" kid. I was the kid that held the pieces together for the "problem" guys. But, if I was there and they were there, it was "our" time. lol

:hi:

/oops

[Fumesucker]

138. Sorry to hear of your kid..

I too think there is a something just a little "off" about the Palin family but I can't quite put my finger on it.

I've been around fundies enough to know they tend to be more screwed up than the average sinner. "Saturday night sinnin' and Sunday mornin' services" aren't just a cliche, they're a way of life for a lot of these folks, IMO.

[EFerrari]

147. Yeah, there's excess there somewhere. And Palin lies her @ss off

without turning a hair. That part of her doesn't disappear when she's off camera. Both Palins seem to have no trouble with rulebreaking as troopergate demonstrates, And, they work hard to present the image of a perfect family. Lying, rulebreaking, excessiveness and fronting -- those are pretty much the four food groups of addiction. :shrug:

[KoKo]

30. Not blaming Sarah for her kids having their "own mind" but that she set her self up

as a "Gun Toating, Moose Dressing, Wolf Killing MEGA EARTH MOTHER" and that's why the Fundie Christians love her!

She is "Mother Earth" but she "KILLS!" The RW BASE LOVES THAT SHIT!

[EFerrari]

33. And it turns out her dad kills on her tag. What a hugh hypocrite. n/t

[malaise]

15. Ditto n/t

[Swamp Rat]

9. Maybe she had some secret abortions: Calc, Geom, Alg, and Stat?

:shrug:

[tanyev]

17. Don't forget Long Jump and Pole Vault.

[Pastiche423]

128. GMAO!

I am definitely stealing that line! One of your best, SR.

All Your Moose Are Belong To Us!

[Blue Diadem]

10. I suspect she's hiding something.

Typical of Repubs to hide the truth.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

11. You're asking me?

damage control

-WTH

[BlueIdaho]

14. No - if she does, folks may ask for an update on McCain...

I suspect his health is on the decline - big time.

[ColbertWatcher]

23. METH, METH, METH, METH etc, etc. n/t

[KoKo]

27. That sweet little baby she "hauls around"...is NOT her OWN....

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

38. There's video of her in a grocery store in Alaska during her pregnancy.

She's as big as a house. The kid is hers. I can't remember where I saw it -- maybe on Amy's show about a week ago.

[KoKo]

45. but, there are so many "Photo Shops" of Sarah...how do we know if that photo is true?

The RW is as adept at "Photo Shop" (maybe more so) than many of us have been...who use it in humor (of a dark kind)...but WE FACT CHECK about doctored photos. Maybe this one just didn't get enough attention as to whether it's doctored or not. Just saying....:shrug: Remember no one in Alaskan Governernment has gone on record that for a fifth baby she "showed" and where are the photos of her Baby Shower? should have been a BIG THING in the Alaska Political World to show to the "Lower 48 RW'ers" that "Mother Earth Palin" was "ready to deliver" and her constituents were praising her decision to not abort that little baby she carries around in "bright lights and through crowds" as she CAMPAIGNS FOR HERSELF!

There's something very weird about Governor Sarah...... :shrug:

[EFerrari]

49. It was video, not a still. And yes, there's something wrong with her. n/t

[LisaL]

92. A video of her as big as a house?

When was it taken? She announced she was pregnant in March, and people around her are quoted as saying they had no clue she was pregnant, because she was not showing. How do you explain that?

[EFerrari]

108. I don't, lizzy. I just saw a video clip of her shopping in a grocery store

and she was clearly very pregnant.

[seemslikeadream]

28. Palin's Medical Records II

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/palins-medica-2.html

According to the NYT today, the Palin campaign has refused to give any interviews or provide any documents with respect to Sarah Palin's health records. Like her refusal to hold a press conference in the campaign, this makes Palin uniquely shielded from accountability in modern times. But there is a public record of what Larry Altman called in the NYT today "the much-discussed circumstances surrounding the birth of her fifth child last April."

So here goes. What follows is all from the public record - from the Anchorage Daily News and the New York Times in three articles here, here, and here. I recommend the originals rather than this summary. I've added some context by talking to leading obstetricians about medical questions I am not competent to answer. It's a remarkable story, whatever your take on it. Since this person could well be the president in the next four years, it may be worth your time to ponder the narrative she has laid out.

We do not know when exactly Sarah Palin discovered she was pregnant at age 43.

We do know that she says she had an amniocentesis to determine for genetic abnormalities. That test, routinely used to determine if an unborn child will be aborted, discovered that Trig had Down Syndrome. Around 90 percent of such babies are indeed aborted. But Palin, admirably to my mind, chose life. The test, however, is also a serious if small risk to the life of the unborn child. The risk is calculated between a 1 in 200 and 1 in 1500 chance of precipitating a miscarriage. Very, very few pro-life activist women agree to an amniocentesis because it can endanger the life of the unborn child with no tangible benefits for the child. Other risk-free methods of predicting the chance of Down Syndrome exist - but would occur later in pregnancy or would not be as accurate. Palin says she decided to take the risk to the life of her unborn child to help prepare her mentally for the task of raising a child with special needs. And, at 43, with Down Syndrome much more common among the offspring of women in their forties, such a test would be routinely offered.

Palin told very few people about the pregnancy. We are even told she kept the news from her husband for three days, who was away at the time. She finally announced the news at 7 months pregnant. She did so, according to the Anchorage Daily News, to

[pitohui]

32. she isn't a healthy young mother, stop repeating lies, kaythanks

she is an irresponsible older mother who deliberately chose to inflict a lifelong mental disability on her child -- YOUNG mothers have little risk of having down's syndrome babies, the risk is sharply elevated after age 35 and she is WELL after that age

be that as it may, if she doesn't want to release her medical records to the public, as all presidents and veeps have to do this, she should be disqualified now

it's probably the usual drug/alcohol use that we see w. all GOP candidates, no reason to be ashamed of it this time of century

most (all) of the people i hear IRL who are pretending she's young/hot are the very kinds of dimbulbs who would never be seen IRL with a woman her size or her age, she isn't young, she isn't hot, she's a fat white over the hill white trash loser, but we're supposed to pretend she's young/hot because the mass media told us so

just stop stop stop repeating their lies

our requests for serious information (such as re health) would be taken more seriously if it wasn't clear that so many of us are EASY to brainwash w. bullshit about her health, youth, and hotness

she's a fat middle-aged broad, next question? (altho i like "robust" for fat, at least you're tactful which is more than what would happen if the democrats fielded a fat middle-aged white trash broad for veep)

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

43. She's certainly not fat.

She looks like she takes care of herself and I'll give her credit for that.

[renie408]

47. This is bullshit. Are you saying that all Down's babies should be aborted?

You can hate Palin all you want, but this post is bullshit. "she is an irresponsible older mother who deliberately chose to inflict a lifelong mental disability on her child" What the FUCK? She didn't 'choose' to inflict Down's on her child, it turned out that her child had Down's. She chose to have that baby rather than abort it. I would do the same thing. Just because someone has Down's Syndrome does not mean that their life is awful or less valuable than anybody else's.

And she IS an attractive woman and where in the hell did you get FAT from? If she is bigger than a size eight, I'll be surprised. Who are you? Kate Moss?

There are so many REAL issues you can dislike Palin for, why do you have to invent any?

[NeedleCast]

60. Because some "progressives" have become so full of hate

that they can't see beyond it.

Makes me sad.

[pitohui]

72. i'm not kate moss but yeah this chick is fat and size 8 has been the fat size for years

come on, get real

if you met her in real life, "healthy" and "young" are not what you'd be thinking

do we always ALWAYS have to lie in public?

this is the internet, just be honest for a change

i'm older and, yeah, i'm thinner that she, and yes, for the record, i would not deliberately give birth to someone that i knew for a fact would have down's syndrome, it's just wrong, kay?

think about it this way, seriously -- the greatest horror that we have is being brain injured or developing dementia and losing our ability to make choices, we wouldn't want this to happen to ourselves EVER, but you would deliberately do this to a helpless baby? not if you had a conscience you wouldn't

having alzheimer's in my family this is a constant worry, that i might out live my brain, it would better not to be born at all than to never have a brain at all

we need to be kind to one another and deliberately choosing a life of hell and never being equal and never having a chance...to do that to your BABY...that is not kind

that's evil

and we all know it, we just can't all admit it for whatever bullshit social reason

i'm inventing nothing, i have a visceral distaste for anyone who could do this to another living soul

torture is wrong, and this is torture

[LisaL]

88. Size 8 has been a fat size for years? In what Universe?

Many women would kill to be a size 8.
As for her putting her child trough torture because he has Downs. That's another asinine thing to say.
This is a genetic disorder, which she obviously didn't pick for the child to have on purpose.

[renie408]

95. A size eight measures 36.5-28.5-39. Certainly that is OBESE!! n/t

[renie408]

93. ummmm....about that outliving your brain thing...I think that's a done deal if you

are saying that it is tantamount to torture to carry Down's baby to term. Tim is a bag boy at the Food Lion nearest me. He has Down's. He is maybe 40 years old and the nicest guy on earth. He is always cheerful and helpful. He lives with his sister and her family and they all seem perfectly happy. Are you saying that Tim is living some kind of 'tortured' existence and should have been aborted? Cause I am thinking Tim might disagree with you.

And I am real sorry, since when has a size eight been the 'fat' size? The measurements for a size eight are: 36.5-28.5-39. You call that FAT??

You wrote a totally bullshit post and are trying to defend it with more bullshit. Keep it up, Michele Bachmann, you are digging the hole way better than I ever could.

Torture...for chrissakes...

[Dorian Gray]

102. You want some unmitigated

internet truth-telling? The above post is filled with sick garbage. I'm sorry you feel that way because it's horribly misguided.

[renie408]

103. That's what happens when you outlive your brain. n/t

[Stellabella]

141. Um, the average size in America is 14.

In NO universe is size eight 'fat'.

Sheesh.

[shimmergal]

153. Why are you insulting every woman

here who wears a size 8 or above?

And adding to the crazy cultural meme that "defines deviancy down/up" re weight, leading to anorexia in so many young women?

[pnwmom]

54. "She's a fat middle-aged broad"? And you are . . . what exactly?

You must think you're pretty hot stuff, but you've crossed the line into outright misogyny and ageism.

[pitohui]

73. i'm an over the hill middle aged broad

i know exactly what i look like and how people respond to it IRL

pretending this woman is young and still a beauty queen is a joke and is just pandering to what THEY want you to parrot

i'm going to believe my own lying eyes instead of joe alcoholic who has been told by rush that she's "hot" when joe alcoholic wouldn't have fucked her on his worst day in 1979

[renie408]

96. Honestly, I think she is a beautiful woman. I wouldn't spit on her if she

were on fire, but she is, in my opinion, an attractive woman. Your 'IRL' obviously does not hold true for everyone. In other people's 'IRL', choosing to have a child with Down's is a decision left to the parents and best left unjudged and women with 39" hips are not fat.

Go figure.

[pnwmom]

134. Then your words put you in the company of women like

Ann Coulter, who love to dis the appearance of other women.

This kind of attitude leads to the nasty comments on Hillary's and Chelsea's looks. Did you think that was okay?

[NeedleCast]

55. You win

This is the most insane thing I've ever read on DU.

[pitohui]

74. i do? what do i win?

where do i go to collect my prize :evilgrin:

[NeedleCast]

76. Just look for the Green with Envy line n/t

[pitohui]

82. that doesn't even make sense

who would envy a woman w. a down's syndrome baby unless they had no heart?

i agree palin doesn't have a heart and doesn't care about her "prop" but most people on DU are a little different

[LisaL]

86. I am not sure what your problem is, but the woman is not fat

by any means.
Especially for a woman her age.

[renie408]

97. The problem is that they wrote a bullshit post and can't back off of it.

The only recourse they can see is to keep saying the same patently ridiculous statements as if repetition will lend them credence.

[Dorian Gray]

105. Not just DU

but pretty much the most hate-filled garbage I've read on the entire internet.

It's moments like this where I think that I really might need to take a DU break.

[Dorian Gray]

100. Hateful

I don't want Palin to be VP, but to say that a Downs baby doesn't deserve life is hateful bullshit. They are loving people whose parents have the same right to choose life or not as any other parent. And their lives aren't more worthless than any other human being.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

40. She's not young for a mother of a baby less than a year old..

but she does seem to be healthy. She probably thinks she doesn't have to prove she is healthy, because nobody thinks she seems unhealthy.

[stpalmer]

42. Plastic Surgery

I'm not judging! She's had lots of babies! Sometimes an adjustment is wanted, and the tanning booth in the Governor's mansion shows she cares about her appearance. I suspect she's had a couple of cosmetic procedures and is either embarrassed by them or is worried the redneck base won't relate and will see her as the elite instead of one of them.

[EFerrari]

53. That's a simple answer. You may be right. n/t

[KoKo]

65. Interesting...never would have thought of that. Just figured she had "good genes" but

seeing photo's of her parents...she really doesn't resemble either of them. And, have you seen her "blood sister?" She doesn't look anything like her, either. Her sister was out there on the Web..talking about her. You couldn't have believed they both had the same parents. Tall, thin, blue eyed Norwegian looking... But, then...there are, I suppose often marked differences in families...but there's really not anything one could see as a resemblance between the two of them.

Who knows. Maybe her Mom or Dad had a "Brief Encounter." That's not to trash her...she couldn't help that..but there's just so much that she doesn't really reveal ...yet she could be our President in a very perilous time.. One would think she would understand that grave, burden of responsibility and take it seriously.

[stpalmer]

58. Yeah, pretty sure it was a boob job

Wait--if she's a boob, and she had a boob job---does that make her a double boob?

[RainDog]

67. I didn't know that her medical records had been kept back.

but yes, by all means, her medical records deserve scrutiny, ESPECIALLY considering the concerns about McCain's health.

And frankly, I want to see the medical report on the birth of her last child. I could care less if her oldest daughter had already given birth, but I do care if she's covering this up. That "character" issue that republicans like to think about.

[KoKo]

89. Biden has come out with his Med Records today even consultation with his Doctor

that will be on the record. He Pre-empted both McCain and Palin. I hope the McCorporate Media now get's on their case about WHY they are holding back. Biden being so Open and UpFront about his Aneurysms (sp) should get McCain to talk about why reporters were given over a thousand pages of Med Info and only a short time to view with "no note taking allowed." (sort of reminds me of the Bush/Cheney Criminals) and we know that Palin acts just like Bush/Cheney...above the law..yet we would assume she's healthy and young enough not to have had the extreme problems both McCain and Biden have. But, then...how would we know ...if she doesn't want to release the results of her last physical. :shrug:

[lonestarnot]

85. You can bet that thing is hiding something, maybe a moose.

[AccessGranted]

91. Skeletons in her Doctor's Medical Bag May Come Out To Play

Maybe it's not a big deal, but what's to hide. Most of us take a medical test for a job, not to mention a background check, drug test and lately a credit check. Why is she immune from what everybody else has to go through? Must be something lurking in her medical history. Addiction? Psychosis? Mentally Imbalanced? Meds? No Recent Pregnancy? She's always trying to twist the rules to get out of something. I think she has a lot to hide and doing a fairly good job of hiding it all, but it will come out sooner or later. I think she's scandolous and a chronic liar. She's not even in office yet and has more drama than anybody! I'll be glad when her fifteen minutes of fame are over and she can waft back to Alaska and sort her life out and get her family in check.

[October]

98. My guess: Tubes tied?

They'd lose the Christian Right if that were the case.

[onenote]

120. I think Palin should release at least what Obama has.

Mind you, that doesn't mean a complete medical history. Just a one page summary. http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_releases_health_informat.html

I think Palin ought to do as much.

[bdamomma]

122. She is following McCains lead

he won't disclose his medical records either. Both have something to hide.

[LisaL]

137. McCain at least showed something to medical doctors, if for a brief

period of time.
She's done nothing. Zip. Nada. Zilch.
What gives?

[leftofthedial]

133. she's still a virgin

[Cid_B]

139. The simple answer...

... she isn't required to do it. Nothing good can come of it for her and a whole lot of bad things could come from it.

In summary it isn't in her best interest until she is forced.

[Lord Helmet]

140. she's "special"

[Dems4me]

143. I think if a person is running for office they should have to make them public, she could be on any

kind of meds for who nows what kind of mental/medical conditions.

I personally think she is totally wacko anyway.

[area51]

144. Q: Why doesn't Psycho Sarah release her medical records?

A: Because we'd find out that Trig is her grandson instead of her son.

[Javaman]

149. because it will show she didn't go to a doctor for "her" baby. nt