Thank God It Passed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

:applause:

[Cleita]

1. You will live to regret it. Wait and see. n/t

[OhioChick]

8. Oh, How Right You Are. n/t

[ixion]

26. yep, spot on

we're going to be paying for this travesty for decades to come.

[girl gone mad]

71. and our children and our children's children..

and so on.

[Night_Nurse]

147. That is who I fear for the most..

I look at my precious sons (ages 6yrs and 9yrs), and I wonder what will be left for them someday?

[movonne]

17. Ditto...

[TahitiNut]

53. Amen

The indebtedness handed to our children and grandchildren just increased by 20%. Insane.

[katty]

127. yup--we will

[Junkdrawer]

134. The rest of us will. OMC will be just fine...n/t

[hatrack]

2. And in two weeks, when they need another $700 billion, will you still be rootin' and tootin'?

:shrug:

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Of course he will. What ever it takes.

x(

[KG]

112. like a puppet on a string.

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

171. Yeah he is.

[Night_Nurse]

148. Hell, Arnie in CA already has his hand out for $7B..

the floodgates have opened, peeps.

[bbgrunt]

3. the stock market just lost most of its gains from the morning.

[Bake]

36. Buy on the rumor, sell on the news.

Bake

[JuniperLea]

47. Dude... there's a song in that...

Those words sing.

[Bake]

97. It's a little proverb I picked up in business school.

But maybe there's a song in it! Of course I'm no Dylan but I'll give it a shot ....

Bake

[wildbilln864]

229. Wasn't that....

how Mayer Rothschild(siq) got his start? :hi:

[GAtomboy]

Was that sarcasm I hope?

[Naturyl]

4. Yes, all scam victims say the same thing.

At least until they realize the golden deal they've just been handed is actually a rip-off.

$700b down the toilet and I see no evidence it will do anything to help real Americans.

[chimpymustgo]

5. What, did they kiss you first?

:puke:

[texastoast]

6. Foolish foolish

Lots of unpassed legislation got snuck in there. This is horrible.

[TwilightGardener]

7. It needed to be passed.

[texastoast]

9. Instant gratification

will often bite your ass. And this one will.

[Cleita]

14. We needed a bail out, but not this one.n/t

[movonne]

21. How do you know that?...it is a rip off ...wake up..

[sarcasmo]

120. Exactly!

[JuniperLea]

45. It was only needed politically...

It's an empty gesture for anyone on this board. Unless Buffet has been slumming...

[cui bono]

64. And it will be used politically by the Repubs with 2/3 of them voting no in the House.

Dumbass Dem leaders failed us once again. I'm so sick of their utter political stupidity.

[JuniperLea]

84. Yep... waking up to reality becomes a harsh glare...

I'll go in with my eyes open though.

We need to hold Obama's feet to the fire when he takes over. He's still our best bet.

[cui bono]

110. Yeah, I think if we push him he will create a Newer Deal. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. God is good at raising money from the suckers. So, is congress.

Pass the basket and win a condo in heaven or save your job by paying your boss.

[uppityperson]

11. Hi OMC, why do you say that? Serious question.

[Jokerman]

12. Are you getting a bailout check?

I can't see how this scam could be a good thing, unless you're one of the crooks who will profit.

[seemslikeadream]

13. PARTY FOR THE MILLIONAIRES AND CROOKS

AND WE'RE PAYING FOR IT

[snappyturtle]

15. It's a hoax on us, once again. The average people get lost in the shuffling

of the money and it ends in the fat cats' pockets. Sorry. Now they're all off to their home districts where I hope they "hear the people". Good luck to all in their elections. :sarcasm:

[JuniperLea]

16. That band-aid will last almost a year...

It's really sad that people don't understand this.

http://www.milkeninstitute.org/10022008slides.pdf

Stock up while you can... beans, rice, powdered milk, canned foods with a long shelf life...

Then watch the news as small businesses close and mid-sized companies close there doors... inflation and soaring job losses.

Edited to say: Large chain stores, electronics, clothing... going down. I just got word of another big name just after I hit post.

[martymar64]

41. Start getting Euros as well

The hedge against hyperinflation

[JuniperLea]

43. Yep... forget gold...

IMHO gold will not be worth anything because no one is on the gold standard anymore.

[girl gone mad]

167. Europe may be in worse shape than us.

Look for currency of countries that are more isolated from our problems and that didn't participate in the global credit bubble.

[soulcore]

18. Bookmarking.

So when they ask for another couple billion in a few weeks I can say I told you so.

Corporatized gains, socialized loses. No real oversight, no direct help for the middle class.

One again, Bush helps his cronies loot the treasury with the threat of imminent death, and the suckers fell for it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. Hook Line and Sinker!

x(

[Truth2Tell]

19. Narnia has been saved!!!!

[ContinentalOp]

20. Woo hoo!

That nice Nigerian man told me the check is in the mail!

[dana_b]

40. lol

I'm not laughing too much this morning but that was good.

[Zhade]

155. HAHAHA!!! Perfect response!

Yep, OMC is just a dumbfuck sucker. But then, everyone knew this long ago.

[RepublicanElephant]

22. anything that dubya actively lobbies for...

can't be good for the middle-class!

well, at least the dlc is happy.

[JuniperLea]

93. Amazing, isn't it?

This one simple rule is being ignored!

If Bush tells you to take a step forward, you had best get your ass moving backward as fast as you can!

[pokerfan]

23. Woo hoo!

Party on, dudes! Let the good times toll. A 20K Dow?



:puke:

[prayin4rain]

24. Thank god I finally got title to my ocean front property in Arizona.. the real estate agent told me

that this will be worth a lot of money when I get ready to retire so it was worth spending my life savings on. Gee whiz I was lucky to have been able to get in on this great opportunity.

[RaleighNCDUer]

That actually might not be a bad investment, since we're going to

drill, baby, drill and do nothing about the melting icecaps. You may have some beachfront property in another 30 years or so.

[Michigan-Arizona]

150. prayin4rain, What would the name of that WASH be? lol

[deaniac21]

25. .

:wtf:

[Suspicious]

27. Yes, thank god our reps defied the will of the people,

reached into our pockets, and handed our wallets to these criminals after a couple of weeks of holding us at gunpoint, all while telling us they're doing us a favor.

I'm ecstatic. :eyes:

[Highway61]

28. Not good, however

We must push and hope for a revisit to this bill come early 2009....

[tjwash]

29. Woohoo!! Now you can go back to maxing out your credit cards, getting car loans for behemoth SUV's..

...you'll never be able to afford, and get an in store 23 percent loan on that plasma screen at WALMART you have had a hard on for. In other words...business as usual in the good ol' USA.

Enjoy!!

[Marrah_G]

30. Yes n/t

[YOY]

31. Sorry, but it doesn't matter one iota

It's still going down.

Just now a bunch of asswipes have cash to offshore to weather this one out.

[girl gone mad]

39. Helicopter Ben and Helicopter Paulson..

helped out their buddies.

And people ask why they are picking and choosing which banks fail and which succeed. That's exactly how you sneak in a Friedman style rescue package to your favored industries.

[JuniperLea]

50. Picking and choosing...

Indeed. I'm surprised more people don't see that! Disgusting.

[dkofos]

32. Insanity

[flvegan]

33. Thank God For Flamebait.

:popcorn:

[LeftyFingerPop]

34. OMC - You are correct.

The markets can totally collapse very quickly, and they cannot be allowed to.

As distasteful as this is, it was necessary.

When you get a bad cut, you stop the bleeding first, and then figure out how to prevent getting cut again.

[Truth2Tell]

42. Does that mean they also plan to do something to stop the bleeding?

When is that scheduled?

[LeftyFingerPop]

44. The hope is that...

This bill will stop the bleeding, and restore some confidence to the equity and credit markets.

The real work starts now...fixing the systemic problems. Will it be done? Hopefully, with a new administration.

I'll say it again...the markets cannot be allowed to fail. And that statement has nothing to do with the "wall street crooks". It has to do with you and me.

[Truth2Tell]

88. "the hope" is that this will stop the bleeding

Good luck with that suckers.

If they didn't want the markets to fail they should've passed a package designed to prevent the markets from failing. Instead they passed a givaway to the people who caused them to start failing in the first place.

:crazy:

[girl gone mad]

173. It won't work to that end.

Credit doesn't just come out of thin air. There have to be lenders. The bailout bill has made the government sort of a lender for up to $700B. However this plus previous bailouts and the preexisting deficit together means the government will have to borrow $1.5 trillion this fiscal. That is almost half the federal budget.

The government borrows this by selling treasuries. That will absorb the demand for bonds in the credit market, and push up interest rates. That means there will not be lenders for commercial entities that want to borrow money.

[texastoast]

46. No, what has been done here is to

ask for a transfusion from someone who already is internally hemorrhaging.

Like using antibacterial soap on gangrene.

[LeftyFingerPop]

49. Listen please...

If the markets fail...we all fail. Like it or not, time had to be bought.

[JuniperLea]

58. Unless you stop the hemmorhaging...

This band-aid ain't gonna stick.

The massive hole is still leaking and your boat is sinking.

No matter the analogy, this bill is bassackward.

[soulcore]

139. That's an expnsive piece of time.

And how long will it buy us?

2 week? 2 months? 2 years?

I say take the hit now and make some real reform, but what do I know, I'm just poor and have been dealing with this "coming recession" for a while now.

[wildbilln864]

230. so how much time did that come to? nt

[JuniperLea]

55. Wrong...

You find the main wound, and you put a tourniquet on the main artery between the wound and the heart... then you clean up the mess. This bailout is ass-backward.

[dgibby]

63. I wonder why THIS was the only plan considered.

There were plenty of other, better plans out there. Why weren't they considered? IMO, this is just an economic 9/11, Patriot Act. Not good.

[JuniperLea]

68. Economic terrorism...

Yep. There have been a lot of very arbitrary financial decisions lately.

[wildbilln864]

231. DING, DING, DING, We have a winner! nt

[Hannah Bell]

92. so the money men said in the last 20 bailouts - but the hits just keep on coming.

[ww2player]

111. And they aren't done printing money yet..

the $700 Billion they pulled outta their butts is not near enough money to make a dent in the derivative problem. So they wil be back for more. ALOT MORE.. AFTER the election though of course. Can't have the public getting to riled up and risking the chance of getting voted out.

[Zhade]

156. Yeah, and everyone knows the best way to stop the bleeding is to reward the guys who stabbed you!

NT!

[Blecht]

35. Thank god for "Hide thread"

.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. $700 billion will not correct the economy. We're in for a rough ride.

[TexasObserver]

38. Guess what, Chicken Little? The tree is full of acorns, and another one will drop soon.

[lamp_shade]

48. Thank God.

[cali]

51. can you articulate WHY this is a good thing?

[LeftyFingerPop]

61. I can.

Both the equity and the credit markets are in real danger of failing based on negative perception.

Markets are not necessarily based on reality, but rather, they are always based on confidence and perception.

if confidence is not restored by some means, the markets will fail, and that failure may not be based on actual economic realities.

if the credit and equity markets are allowed to fail, then this country goes down the tubes in a real way.

This fix is a band aid, and the real effort has to start now by fixing systemic problems.

However, without the band aid, panic would have ensued, meaning dire pain for you and me.

[JuniperLea]

65. We already know what the systemic problems are...

You need to see how we got here... there's not enough "confidence" in the world to overcome what we're up against.


http://www.milkeninstitute.org/10022008slides.pdf

[LeftyFingerPop]

72. Systemic problems take months and years to fix...

Credit and equity markets can crash completely in days. Once that happens, there is a world of hurt that is much worse than what we are seeing now.

[JuniperLea]

78. So we throw money at it and prop it up for a very small amount of time

And call it a fix?

This has been coming for a long time. No matter what we do it will cause a great deal of pain to a lot of people. Now, the people at the top won't feel it for a while, but we will.

A quick simple fix would have been to BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE and let the money trickle UP. We all know this trickle down bullshit is bullshit, yet so many accept this as a fix. I'm stunned. Simply stunned.

It will take you maybe a month, judging by your optimism level today, before you understand what so many of us are trying to say here.

Watch for major commercial chains to file for bankruptcy... it's already starting.

[LeftyFingerPop]

81. I'm not calling it a fix...

I'm calling it a band-aid, a necessary means to an end.

[JuniperLea]

89. No sooner will this band-aid hit the hemmorhage...

than it will be soaked through and worthless. Read that link I posted. You cannot understand the magnitude of this issue until you see it in chart form.

[girl gone mad]

174. We had better band-aids available..

that would not have required us to give away so much to the criminals behind this giant Ponzi scheme.

[anigbrowl]

91. You 'trickle up' theory is just as much BS as the 'trickle down' theory.

Only you objectors are characterizing this as a 'fix'. The people who support this bailout (like me) think it's the first step in a long process - one that could have been avoided if we had acted earlier, but which would have been exponentially more difficult if we had waited until later. And no, I don't think this is the last time we'll have to inject money into the system either.

Folks advocating this 'trickle up' solutions don't seem to get that it would take 3-6 months for the money to percolate through to balance sheets, and offer zero solutions for how we would go about unfreezing the credit markets in the meantime.

[JuniperLea]

98. You are just flat wrong...

Businesses are failing NOW. This isn't going to help them in the least. This will only stave off a few bank failures. In the long term, it's just stupid. And what do you suppose people and small businesses would do with the extra cash had it been given to us instead of banks? We would use it instead of the credit we can't get now, we would also pay off debts. So the banks would have it soon enough anyway... and it would in turn free up their liquidity and ability to give credit.

You need to see how we got here... and you need to keep your eyes open... businesses are failing left and right... small, medium and large... large retailers are filing for bankruptcy too.

You need to see the magnitude... this was one of the most informative discussions I've ever seen:

http://www.milkeninstitute.org/10022008slides.pdf

[anigbrowl]

124. I think you're making my point for me

Your assertion that banks would get the liquidity 'soon enough' is mistaken - this proves me point that the objectors don't have an answer for how to handle this short-term liquidity crunch. I know perfectly well that it's hitting businesses and causing them to fail now, which was why I considered it urgent to get the thing passed.

Frankly, I think I understand the magnitude of it rather better than you do, and don't see anything in that slideshow I didn't know already (although it's a fine summary). I've been following this issue for several years, since I've had a front row seat here in CA on one of the most inflated housing markets.

Thing is, I went though a similar situation in the early 1990s when I was living in Britain - overheated real estate market, subsequent crash & negative equity for many people (including me), and subsequent market pressure on the financial system as a whole, leading to a nasty recession. This situation isn't exactly the same, but it's sure similar enough that when I saw CA house prices growing at near exponential levels a few years back I started a deathwatch on it.

I am far from thrilled about the bailout, but it's a concrete step towards reform (even though it is a small one and many more will be necessary). The atlernative was to let the fed just keep pumping liquidity into the market and increasing M3 in the process, which to my mind has already been increased quite enough.

[JuniperLea]

138. I'm in CA, and I have owned property here since 1985

The slideshow is from a presentation yesterday in Santa Monica. Those particular experts pretty much agree with me.

We will just have to agree to disagree, much like the financial experts. I see the banks being very arbitrary in how they lend right now. Not to lend to another bank with a very high rating is absurd. That is what has been happening. The government has been very arbitrary in what banks they allow to fail too. I see trusting this as very foolhardy. I don't see how propping things up with more cash is a concrete step toward reform at all. This bill has nothing to do with reform. Nothing.

[anigbrowl]

144. The slideshow might be new,but the information in it isn't

What I'm saying is that it's a fine summary of stuff I knew already. The logic behind exchanging treasury funds for MBS's has been explained over and over; I respect the fact that you disagree with it, but it makes sense to me.

[JuniperLea]

149. The MBS's are worthless now...

And with the artificially inflated housing market losing ground daily, I don't see that as anything but a really dumb investment... made on our behalf.

[RoyGBiv]

166. You're awesome ...

Just wanted to say that since you're taking so much crap.

:thumbsup:

[cali]

113. you didn't explain why this particular legislation is the right thing.

yes, I'm fully aware that perception and confidence have a big role in the murkets, but that doesn't mean that a collapse is imminent and that they couldn't have spent a week or two more crafting a better bill. And there's NO guarantee that this will work.

[Zhade]

158. That's not an explanation. Try again.

NT!

[JuniperLea]

62. I'm betting no, but...

My buddy here has plenty to share if you care to have some:)

[Zhade]

157. OMC articulate?

:rofl:

That's like asking a chicken to do algebra - sure, the chicken can scratch the dirt, but that doesn't mean the lines form the quadratic equation.

[smoogatz]

54. AND we get a nice little tax-break reacharound

while Wall Street reconfigures our rectums!!! Woo hoooooo!!!!

[cui bono]

56. You enjoy legalized theft? The economic coup?

The rich making the poor pay for their yachts and mansions?

Great.

[SammyWinstonJack]

67. Maybe he is one of the rich?

:shrug:

[Neshanic]

57. In 30 days they will be back for more. Different spin.

[rhett o rick]

69. I am givin 60 days. nm

[Neshanic]

99. That's reasonable. I think within 30 to 60, but look for screams of RECESSION!

right after the election from the republicans.

[Snarkoleptic]

59. All your dollar are belong to us. WTF

[rhett o rick]

66. Oh Yeah, me too. A two month repreave. Gives me time to stockpile some food. nm

[Kurovski]

70. I can't wait for the NEXT one!!!11

:bounce:

[cottonseed]

117. I know. It's funny and sad at the same time. A few months from now we'll be arguing the next one.

[Kurovski]

128. Oh, but THAT ONE will be all Obama's fault.

You betcha.

[rhett o rick]

73. Seriously OMC, do you think this solved the problem? Or simply postponed the collapse? nm

[Name removed]

74. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofthedial]

75. morons.

[SammyWinstonJack]

80. Greedy bastards helped along by morons. And we get screwed but some think that is a good thing.

x(

[prayin4rain]

96. but aren't you AFRAID? they have yellowcake... everyone will STARVE .. don't you care??

:sarcasm:

[geomon666]

115. How can they starve?

Is there something wrong with the yellowcake?

:sarcasm:

[Zhade]

160. I heard that al Qaeda is using Hussein's WMDs to force banks not to lend!

IM SERIES

[SammyWinstonJack]

169. ..

[Pooka Fey]

76. I'm so happy I might just forget to pay my taxes for the next 30 years.

[alarimer]

77. We are well and truly screwed.

You can forget about health care reform, social security, any social programs, environmental protection. The only good thing is that we may not have enough money to run the war, so it will hopefully stop.

Fuck those rich fucking pieces of shit that got us in this mess. I want them to jump out the window, which is all those parasites deserve.

[LeftyFingerPop]

79. I hate to tell you this...

but these "parasites" are you and me, and your cousin, and your uncle, and your brother....

[texastoast]

86. Delete wrong thread

[elocs]

82. My candidate for president, Barack Obama supports this bill and I trust his judgement.

It's easy to be against this bill and to predict doom and gloom. Those who do are in good company with a lot of Republicans (personally I don't like to be a bedfellow with any Republican and in the Congress more Republicans were against this bill than Democrats).

I was at the Obama rally here in La Crosse on Wednesday and here is what our candidate for president, Barack Obama told us:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gGxjYr

This is not just a Wall Street crisis – it’s an American crisis, and it’s the American economy that needs this rescue plan. I understand why people would be skeptical when this President asks for a blank check to solve a problem. I’ve spent most of my time in Washington being skeptical of this Administration, and this time was no different. That’s why over a week ago, I demanded that this plan include specific proposals to protect the American taxpayer – protections that the Administration eventually agreed to, as well as Democrats and Republicans in Congress.

First, I said we needed an independent board to provide oversight and accountability for how and where this money is spent at every step of the way.

Second, I said that we cannot help banks on Wall Street without helping the millions of innocent homeowners who are struggling to stay in their homes. They deserve a plan too.

Third, I said that I would not allow this plan to become a welfare program for the Wall Street executives whose greed and irresponsibility got us into this mess.

And finally, I said that if American taxpayers are financing this solution, then you should be treated like investors – you should get every penny of your tax dollars back once this economy recovers.

This last part is important, because it’s been the most misunderstood and poorly communicated part of this plan. This is not a plan to just hand over $700 billion of your money to a few banks. If this is managed correctly, we will hopefully get most or all of our money back, or possibly even turn a profit on the government’s investment – every penny of which will go directly back to you, the investor.

The rescue plan now includes those four principles. It also includes a proposal I made yesterday morning to expand federal deposit insurance for families and small businesses across America who have invested their money in our banks. This will boost small businesses, make our banking system more secure, and help restore confidence by reassuring families that their money is safe.

Even with all these taxpayer protections, this plan is not perfect. Democrats and Republicans in Congress have legitimate concerns about it. I know many Americans share those concerns. But it is clear that this is what we must do right now to prevent a crisis from turning into a catastrophe. That’s why I’ve been reaching out to leaders in both parties to do whatever I can to help pass this plan. That’s why I’ll be flying back to Washington today to cast my vote to safeguard the American economy. And to the Democrats and Republicans who have opposed this plan, I say – step up to the plate and do what’s right for the country, because the time to act is now.

I know many Americans are wondering what happens next. Passing this bill will not be the end of our work to strengthen our economy – it’s just the beginning of a long, hard road ahead. So let me tell you exactly how I’ll move forward as President.

From the moment I take office, my top priority will be to do everything I can to make sure that your tax dollars are protected. I will demand a full review of this financial rescue plan to make sure that it is working for you. If you – the American taxpayer – are not getting your money back, then we will change how this program is being managed. If need be, we will send new legislation to Congress to make sure that taxpayers are protected in line with the principles that I have put forward. You should expect nothing less from Washington.

If we do have losses, I’ve proposed a Financial Stability Fee on the financial services industry so Wall Street foots the bill – not the American taxpayer. And as I modernize the financial system to create new rules of the road to prevent another crisis, we will continue this fee to build up a reserve so that if this happens again, it will be the money contributed by banks that’s put at risk.

This will only work if there is real enforcement and real accountability. And that starts with presidential leadership. So let me be very clear: when I am President, financial institutions will do their part and pay their share, and American taxpayers will never again have to put their money on the line to pay for the greed and irresponsibility of Wall Street. That’s a pledge that I’ll make to you today, and it’s one that I’ll keep as President of the United States.

As I read what I heard Obama say is that the American taxpayer would not be paying for this bailout for decades, that under an Obama administration he would hold Wall Street and the banks accountable. He clearly said, "We cannot mortgage our children’s future on a mountain of debt."

Obama also said in La Crosse:

This financial crisis is a direct result of the greed and irresponsibility that has dominated Washington and Wall Street for years. It’s the result of speculators who gamed the system, regulators who looked the other way, and lobbyists who bought their way into our government. It’s the result of an economic philosophy that says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else; a philosophy that views even the most common-sense regulations as unwise and unnecessary. And this crisis is the final verdict on this failed philosophy – a philosophy that we cannot afford to continue.

But while there is plenty of blame to go around and many in Washington and on Wall Street who deserve it, all of us now have a responsibility to solve this crisis because it affects the financial well-being of every single American. There will be time to punish those who set this fire, but now is the moment for us to come together and put the fire out.

I'll stick with Obama on this and trust his judgement. I am guessing that he and his financial advisors know at least as much as the naysayers here at DU. I wish that more here would actually take the time and make the effort to understand what our candidate supports and believes concerning this bill.

[chimpymustgo]

131. This bullshit is not a SOLUTION. I pity you for having so much faith in a politician.

FISA, ducked vote about Iran, voted to fund war...

[elocs]

137. He is my candidate and fortunately I will never have to read about your pity again. n/t

[Zhade]

161. How's the view under that sand?

NT!

[elocs]

163. So there is only correct position on this and it is yours? Right.

I'll stick with Obama over some anonymous internet poster.

[Joe Fields]

179. Yes, there really is only one position on this.

That position would be the one where the politicians quit running around like chicken little and sit down like adults to deliberate how to insure two things: How we keep the economy afloat, and secondly, to insure that this never happens again.

Obviously none of this was done. Yet Obama was all for it. And you want to fill this wide gap, this huge disconnect he has displayed toward the American people, with nothing but trust? Is this the HOPE that Obama is talking about?

[Zhade]

184. Looks like you were wrong, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3525474

[Hugabear]

145. Voting for Bob Barr, are you?

Because every single one of the things you listed, Barr agrees with you on.

[earth mom]

83. Go ahead, pat yourself on the back while the rest of country crashes & burns.

You got yours didn't you? :puke:

Bet you are against Impeachment too. :grr:

[KG]

103. the defenders of the status quo are ecstatic!

[earth mom]

106. Yeah and they stick out like an ugly wound around here.

:puke:

[SIMPLYB1980]

85. It needed to pass. We can fix it with a new President and Congress.

[SammyWinstonJack]

90. ...

:spray:

[SIMPLYB1980]

95. ... That all you got.

[mmonk]

87. We agree on something.

In 1929, people let the "free market" punish Wall Street and we know what happened. Do I like the bill? No. But it can be changed as we go.

[texastoast]

104. See Great Depression history

http://books.google.com/books?id=jA9UAZ2fKeoC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=herbert+hoover+bank+bailout+history&source=web&ots=oxu-vtzIEe&sig=lghgu9dA1qZYcLmE9aTLKEzINsk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA287,M1


History should certainly tell you this won't work. God, why are we so slow and scared?

[mmonk]

116. Ultimately fix it? No. Slow down the spiking unemployment rate

possibly at least long enough to do a proper fix? That's more at what I look for. To make sure credit lines are extended long enough to put a finger in the crack.

[texastoast]

94. Here's what you paid for

Clapping now?

http://taxdollars.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/02/after-federal-bailout-aig-fetes-in-style-in-oc/?ref=patrick.net



AIG subsidiary parties in style in OC, two weeks after bailout

Financial crisis? What financial crisis?

Less than two weeks after Uncle Sam gave American International Group (AIG) an $85 billion loan - staving off financial collapse - execs from one of its insurance subsidiaries, AIG American General, gathered for a conference at the uber-swank St. Regis Monarch Beach Resort, billed as “California’s only Mobil Travel Guide Five-Star Resort,” where ocean-view rooms start at $565 a night and “world class luxury” is the rule.

On Friday, before the presidential debate got under way, caterers for the St. Regis were setting up dozens of tables on the grounds of Mission San Juan Capistrano for AIG American General’s sumptuous off-site dinner. Tables were draped with soft Tuscan-gold tablecloths that cascaded to the grass; elegant fresh flower centerpiece graced each table; and what appeared to be fine crystal stemware, at least from a distance, glistened in the fading light.

Workers set up a lengthy bar stocked with bottles of liquor. A half-dozen tall space heaters stood sentinel in case the evening turned cool. There was a large center stage with lighting and a sound system, and once the sun went down, the whole scene took on a magical patina as tiny white lights twinkled in the trees.

Full article at link

[guitar man]

100. woohoo, they've got a pool

It's a publuc pool now, let's go, everybody in! :D

[Neshanic]

101. But someone had to turn down the beds and pour the wine. It's a win-win.

[musette_sf]

102. thank G-d my Rep voted against it

and maintained his NO vote through both iterations.

GO PETE STARK!!!!!! a man of principle.

[texastoast]

105. I was proud of a bunch of Texas reps

for just saying no, even if it is in an effort to save their political skin and distance themselves from Bush's dirty tricks.

Unfortunately, MY rep wasn't one of them. He's lost a lot of puke votes over this, so it might work to my county's party's advantage.

[musette_sf]

108. i see that Lampson voted no.

good. i lived in Sugar Land for quite awhile and am glad to see a Dem, a principled Dem, in office in the former land of the Bugman.

[girl gone mad]

175. I e-mailed and called mine..

and he voted no.

[Kurovski]

107. Hey wait...you're not talking about a kidney stone, are you?

[Efilroft Sul]

123. Good one, there.

And I had the pleasure of passing a kidney stone to appreciate your comment.

It was almost as big as this pork-loaded farce.

[2speak]

227. K&R

[scarletwoman]

185. I thought he was talking about a particularly hard bowel movement. (nt)

[ww2player]

109. Your happy about giving more money to the rich.. why??

This money is going to be spent buying up the worst assets on banks balance sheets (Many of them based on foriegn mortgages made by foreign banks moved onto a US subsididary)

That money could have gone to fix some real problems the people of this country face. Not buy some banker a new yacht.

[Lucian]

114. I'm pissed.

Now we're going to be paying that damn thing off for at least the next century or two. :grr: And not only that, the government paid off millionaires who couldn't control their corporations. And where's the help for the middle class? And you know damn well we're going to need billions more in the coming weeks. Are you going to be for it then also?

[gollygee]

118. Yeah, I don't think the filthy rich were quite filthy rich yet

and the rest of us are definitely better off giving them hundreds of billions more to piss away. Yay us.

[sarcasmo]

119. God, Really?

[Alexander]

121. Yeah, thank God we gave away more of our tax dollars to the rich.

You really like that, don't you?

[jonnyblitz]

122. You should be thanking SATAN!!1

j/k sorta :D

We'll have to disagree on this one, OMC! :o

[PBS Poll-435]

125. Agreed

:thumbsup:

[2speak]

126. What is the market at now?

[AngryOldDem]

130. Down 160.97 with about 50 seconds left in the trading day. nt

[Bluebear]

129. Yes, everybody should raise up a silent prayer to the Almighty thanking Him for this bill's passage.

:crazy:

[AngryOldDem]

132. The rich get rich and the poor get poorer...and screwed.

When the little guy is financially irresponsible, he loses his shirt and a lot more. No questions asked, do not pass go and definitely do not collect $200. However, when people who are just flat greedy deliberately play with the markets and bleed them dry, they cry poverty and Congress runs to their rescue with even more money for them to play with.

Yep. Something to celebrate, all right.

[Forkboy]

133. Thank God for reactionary fear-based voting!!! It worked awesome with the Patriot Act!

:applause:

[Name removed]

135. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tigermoose]

136. I agree. "This is not a black and white world."

Sometimes you have to do what's best even if it means helping those who don't deserve it. It would be best if ideological purity and class warfare were left behind in the graveyards of the 20th century.

[Orsino]

140. I guess. Maybe.

Perhaps it buys all the armchair quarterbacks here on DU the time to craft a good solution.

[npk]

141. We have plugged the one big hole in the ship

But in the process created several more smaller holes.

[file83]

142. *self delete*

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

143. For What It's Worth,

I believe #1.

I don't believe #2. What I do believe is that this deal today will buy the time necessary for other REAL actions to be taken. The credit crunch was real. The upcoming holiday season is real. If the credit crunch were to remain with as much fear behind it as there was, the trickle down would've been significant in my opinion. That is why I've constantly been on the side of this passing, much like Obama has been, because even though the deal overall sucks it is still necessary at this time to prevent a bunch of innocent people from having to suffer. Already many have been the victims of what's been going on due to their credit cards being cancelled, credit lines reduced, loan amounts reduced, etc.

So yeah, we could've done much better in a perfect world and this is only a small immediate piece of a much larger puzzle. But this piece was mandatory right now in my opinion, regardless of some other DU'ers strong opinions.

[GetTheRightVote]

146. OMG, I can not believe you are on DU and actually still believe these liers

If we have learned anything here it is that they lie, steal and cheat to get your children and your money. Wake up, time is running out for u if it hasn't already.

:grr::grr:

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

152. You're going to wish you'd never said those words.

Bookmarked - gotta have something to entertain us when we can't afford much else, and rubbing in your face just how wrong you were is free and enjoyable (as we've seen in the past).

[apocalypsehow]

168. Been there, done that. It was amusing to watch the stages the OP went through:

1. Tried to ignore the linked thread to his own words.

2. Tried to ridicule reminding him of his own words.

3. Got angry at reminding him of his own words, and hurled a few junior high epithets.

4. Wore out the alert button pissing, whining and moaning about being reminded of his own words.

Think I'll join you, and bookmark this one, too. :thumbsup:

[Bluebear]

186. 'Wore out the alert button pissing, whining and moaning'

:spray:

[tjwash]

154. Yep...let the corporate raiding and hostile takeovers begin.

Dow plunged today on this news. We are going to get fleeced now.

Brokers on wall street will dump stock today and possibly on Monday, and buy companies for pennies on the dollar next week when the time is right. They will then proceed to sell them off piece by piece. The 80's term for this was a "hostile takeover."

Fuck the employees, of the places that get gobbled up and sold, they are out of there. They've been downgraded from resource to liability.

I'm happy that you are so exited that they will be using the taxpayer dollar to do it now that as well. The surviving megabanks that will be the recipients of most of this, will be able to float the raiders very low interest loans courtesy of us so that they can do all of this.

Maybe you are just too young to remember that we have been through this before...the S & L bailout produced the exact same results. I can't believe that people seem have forgotten our very recent history on this exact same thing. Hell, we bailed out the S & L's and it didn't do squat in the long run.

It will just delay the inevitable. If anyone remembers, between '93 and '96, 2400 banks disappeared. By the end of '94, 42 banks controlled 25 percent of all the nation’s deposits. By '96 the 13 largest banks held 25 percent of all deposits. That's ONE QUARTER OF ALL CASH IN THE UNITED STATES! that is astro-bucks. The unfortunate thing, it it didn't help the regular old bank employees though. From '95 to '96, 42,200 employees lost their jobs at banks across the country.

It's cold and calculated. We are screwed.

Oh...but this time it will be different, right? :eyes:

[mhatrw]

162. Of BushCo cronies, by BushCo cronies, for BushCo cronies

:woohoo:

:sarcasm:

[4 t 4]

165. I really do pray to god your right

we will have a better understanding when Europe opens Sun. night and if it looks bad I'm coming for you! And if it doesn't get better within the week i'm gonna start crying big time.

[SammyWinstonJack]

170. Why do you care?

:shrug:

[apocalypsehow]

172. Guess.

(And no, I CAN'T state it openly. DU rules and all...)

[Bryn]

176. I don't believe in Trickle Down Fairy Tale

We are being peed on.

:eyes:

[Bryn]

177. There is "Trick" within the word TRICKLE

x(

[New Dawn]

178. You are either very rich or very foolish.

[donheld]

181. or both?

[libnnc]

223. totally both

[Skip Intro]

180. I am sure it will make a dramatic difference in my everday life and finances.

Not.

[johnaries]

182. The sad thing is that there is no way to "prove" to the naysayers

that this was the right thing to do. Things are still going to get pretty bad, so they will all say "see, it didn't work!". There's no way to prove to them that it wouldn't have been much worse if the bailout hadn't passed.

Especially since they simply refuse to even try and understand why it was necessary.

I applaud Congress for doing what they know is right even though they will get a lot of criticism for it.

[readmoreoften]

197. So the market would've dropped the next day if it DIDN'T pass too? Wow. I'm impressed.

Keep applauding. :eyes:

[Zhade]

183. So! How does it feel to be wrong AGAIN?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3525474

[Zhade]

190. .

.

[lamp_shade]

187. Amen, OMC, Amen. n/t

[Crabby Appleton]

188. Kidney stone?

[ThoughtCriminal]

189. Ever see the Far Side comic?

A family of goldfish are outside a fish bowl - which is on fire. One of them states:

Well thank God we all got out in time!... Of course, now we're equally screwed.


I'm not sure about how much this "bailout" or "rescue" has averted, but it is pretty obvious that without some major changes in how we regulate financial markets, how we treat workers, what we do about healthcare and energy - we're equally screwed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

191. For What It's Worth,

I've read every single far side there ever was as far as I know. Out of all of them, that one has ALWAYS been my absolute favorite. Just pure brilliance!

Couldn't believe it when I read your reply and saw that was the one you used lol.

[ThoughtCriminal]

193. I had that one pinned up in my office for years

It seemed to cover many situations, but I'm afraid that none were as appropriate as this one.

[cynatnite]

235. I agree with everything you said. n/t

[alfredo]

192. Painful gas?

[2speak]

194. The posters name says it all.

[TexasObserver]

195. DOW is now down almost 1000 points since the bill passed.

Since the voting on the bill started Friday, the DOW has dropped around 900 points.

And the LIBOR rate? It barely moved at all.

[uppityperson]

196. Well, thank god. Pretty soon everyone will be able to have some dow.

:sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

198. "Thank God!"

:sarcasm:

[uppityperson]

199. Down another 500 pts today. It will take a while for things to turn around,

I wonder if it can hold on that long? http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/

[Bluebear]

210. Wait till today :/

[Geek_Girl]

200. I think in Hindsight OPMC needs to edit his post and add a sarcasm smile

nt

[libnnc]

201. Oh he's *never* wrong

Ever. :eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

202. I'm Still Thankful It Passed.

Those alreading deeming it worthless and insinuating that things would've been even better had it not passed, are coming from an angle of ignorance in my opinion.

[grahamhgreen]

203. OMFG

[cali]

204. yeah, because you're just so much smarter than say, Joseph Stiglitz

not that you have a clue as to who he is. You fucking own the ignorance on this one, OMC. It may or may not have been better without the bailout, but it certainly has not prevented a meltdown. Grab a clue.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

205. I Don't Believe A Claim Was Ever Made That It Would Prevent One.

[Geek_Girl]

206. I actually hope your right and things get better

The markets IMHO are getting scary.

[Forkboy]

207. LMAO...."are coming from an angle of ignorance".

Seriously, dude...are you EVER wrong in your mind?

[Alexander]

208. I bet OMC wishes we'd all forget about this gem of a thread.

[Forkboy]

209. No, I think he embraces it, which is scary.

Plus, he loves the attention. That's why he starts threads like this in the first place.

Want to know the sad part. In private he's a very thoughtful person and actually shows the ability to reason with people and make sense. But for whatever reason, when he posts in public he seems intent on being just the opposite.

[Moochy]

214. Exactly my experience with him as well

re: the stark difference between public and private interactions with the OP.

[Art_from_Ark]

239. Maybe he's just Carroll O'Connor

playing Archie Bunker on the Internet?

[2speak]

216. K&R

[anigbrowl]

211. Seconded

The bailout is all kinds of suck, but much of that is because it was put together in a hurry rather than over a period of a month or two (yes, Paulson was supposed to be working on it for 2 months...but in 2 months you can draft a full bill, not a 3 page outline). I think it was essential to pass it, warts and all, and think the people who are already hailing it as dead are mistaking desire for reality. It's a course of treatment that's going to take a month or so before it shows results, not an overnight fix.

People who are going 'market pain = bailout failed' are int eh grip of panic. Watching the market take a big dive is scary, but life will go on - and we'll be better off for having started the ball rolling last week instead in a few weeks from now.

[gollygee]

213. Things would be the same and we wouldn't be out those several hundred billion dollars

I don't think anyone thinks things would have been better, just that we're throwing good money after bad, and it's enough money that it will come back to bite us. Or our grandkids.

[Marr]

232. Embarrassing.

I was embarrassed for you just reading that.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

212. Thank God for close to the biggest heist in our history? Shrub's Mission Accomplished?

:shrug:

BTW..the biggest is the trillions missing from the Pentagon reported on 9/10/2001

[soulcore]

215. Is it too early....

...to say I told you so?

[Horse with no Name]

217. Thank you for kicking this everytime the market drops

It gives me a small sense of satisfaction.

[soulcore]

218. Wachovia refuses to be outdone (sending 75 employees on a Mediterranean cruise)

Source: LATimes

As ailing Wachovia Corp. waits to see whether it will be acquired by Wells Fargo & Co. or Citigroup Inc. -- possibly with taxpayers paying the tab for hundreds of billions of dollars in bad loans -- some of the company's top brokers are preparing to depart Saturday for an all-expenses-paid cruise of the Greek Isles.

The weeklong trip for up to 75 employees of brokerage A.G. Edwards, which Wachovia acquired last year for nearly $7 billion, will also include spouses and significant others, said Teresa Dougherty, a Wachovia spokeswoman.

"This is one way that we recognize our top financial advisors," she said.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus9-2008oct0...

[marmar]

219. And one day, this thread will pass......like a gall stone......

:hurts:

[2speak]

220. One day you will pass too.

[marmar]

221. What clever reparte.....

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

225. Yeah, they sure zinged you!

:eyes:

[MiniMe]

222. Do you have gas?

[soulcore]

224. AIG plans to host meeting at Ritz

AIG plans to hold another gathering for brokers next week.

The event, at the Ritz-Carlton in California's Half Moon Bay, aims to "motivate and educate" about 150 independent agents who sell AIG coverage to high-end clients, said spokesman Nicholas Ashooh.

...

AIG considered buying advertisements to explain its position, only to be told by public relations consultant George Sard that it would be "a really bad idea."

"To spend the taxpayer's money on an expensive ad campaign to apologize for how you used taxpayer money leaves you open to further attacks," Sard wrote in an e-mail to Ashooh.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/10/09/aig_plans_to_host_meeting_at_ritz

[anigbrowl]

238. Looks like they just cancelled it...vaguely back in touch with reality.

[2speak]

226. :-)

K&R

[Pale Blue Dot]

228. Whoops. Posted in the wrong spot.

:rofl:

:cry:

[FlyingSquirrel]

233. me too!

:rofl:

[readmoreoften]

234. O shit. It's a misposting epidemic...

[Bluebear]

236. Let's watch that, please.

[libnnc]

237. oops

my bad

[Moochy]

240. careful now y'all