I just saw the clip of HRC talking to a group of supporters

[WCGreen]

I got this flashback to the Ellen Jamesons from Garp.

What's all this crap about putting her name into nomination on one night and giving Bill a keynote speech the next. That leaves one day for our nominee. What the fuck is that all about.

Sorry, I just can't see how this helps to unite the party. I see it as a ploy by the Clintons to position for 2012...

Maybe the Mayans were right.

Maybe the world will end in 2012.

[panader0]

1. I've lost a lot of respect for Hill and Bill................

Too bad. I used to like them both.

[gateley]

2. "Maybe the Mayans were right. Maybe the world will end in 2012."

:rofl: Love it! :rofl:

[SpiralHawk]

7. Except the Mayans never have said that

Only people exploiting their teachings have said the world 'ends.'

The Maya elders say we are in a time of transition (1987-2012) from an old order (Fourth World) to a Fifth World.

Their teachings are deep, sophisticated, and directly relevant to world conditions -- worthy of consideration.

[gateley]

9. Yes. I know that. I have looked into their teachings. It was a funny post, that's all. nt

[SpiralHawk]

12. Not scolding you, Gates, just "them"

who have exploited the teachings. Carry on with the funny. Lord knows we need it.

[gateley]

13. I get pissed at those who

make fun of this -- especially, as you point out -- when they are totally misinterpreting it. :eyes:

"It's the end of the world AS WE KNOW IT, and I feel fine." (REM)

Personally, I'm thrilled I'm here at this time to experience this transition. I think it's part of the reason I came at this time. :7

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

3. Passive-aggressive anger at work..

It's YOUR birthday party and all your "bestest pals" are invited..but before you can blow out the candles & open the gifts, the least favorite neighbor girl shows up with HER friends, and insists that they get to tell all the great things about HER, and everyone must kiss her ass & kow-tow to her...and if she's pleased enough, you may open your presents & have some cake..

[godai]

8. Great analogy! n/t

[Clear Blue Sky]

4. I hope it's 2012 they are positioning for, not 2008...nt

[godai]

5. Hillary: "I see a lot of pent up........desire". Desire?

That's what she said. Would someone attempt an explanation of what she might mean? Desire for.....

[WCGreen]

6. POWER!!!!!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. ....

She wants to be president very badly...

K&R

[burythehatchet]

11. That vid should win the Oscar for Best Bobblehead Sequence

[vixengrl]

14. There is a way they can do it right and be really helpful.

Bill Clinton had a pretty successful presidency. He led under fire from the right and the media, he was beaten up in the press, they impeached him--

And he left so popular he could give a speech on Bush's inauguration, which as I recall, nearly upstaged poor *. Al Gore could've used him more in his campaign, and I think his heart trouble didn't let him do more for Kerry, which was a pity. I just don't think we can afford, whatever hard feelings there might be regarding Hillary's not being the nominee, not using Clinton's great example of what a Democratic president can do--how the economy was strong, how foreign policy truly was about diplomacy and teamwork.

First thing--I admire Hillary even still, even though there were things about her campaign I didn't like. I think she is a person who can take a very strong lead in the senate one day, because her knowledge about policies is so strong. She was for some time the front-runner, almost like a "given". And she has a lot of fans. I remember back in the 90's, I was like a Hillary fan-girl. I hated when she got bad press because I totally admired her and didn't understand where all the hate came from. I kind of still think it was intimidation--she's a smart woman and she doesn't have a lot of "back down" about her. She'd call out a VRWC if she saw one. Although I support Obama whole-heartedly, I see no real problem with acknowledging that this was contest, and recognizing her supporters, and I do not think that it needs to be a divisive thing or "party-splitting". To much hand-wringing over it could make it that way, but it doesn't need to be. Instead, (because I think Obama's monination is a done deal, anyway) it can be a celebration that this party had two strong candidates. And we as a party tussled over who we really felt like beating McCain with ( :) ).

Second thing--at his best, Bill Clinton is a peacemaker. (He worked with that Republican Congress and walked out of office with us having a surplus--that's was an effort, working with "hostiles". And, yeah, well, Ireland. He did good work in the Middle East. W. sends him to raise money when bad stuff goes down--he gets stuff done.) I know there's a tendency to see him as this grudging old lion who feels slighted by the new phenomenon. I know it's easy to characterize him as an egomaniac--guess what? That's presidential politics. You have to have a set on you to think you can go around being the leader of the free world or whatever other hagiographic stuff they pin on you. But I hope and trust that he knows there is something bigger than himself and Hillary, and it's the theme he ran on, and I believe it's something he tried to work towards himself--hope, and realizing the work we do now, impacts our future. His legacy now, will have a lot to do with how he treats that speech. It could be a really good thing--a torch passing from one agent of change to another.

And have you *seen* Obama do a big event? His speech on race? He flooded Independence Mall later. He drew a 70K crowd in Portland(no disrespect to the Decembrists, but I don't follow that band myself, but I would follow Obama--so I do think he had a little something to do with the numbers.) 200K in Berlin. So he will fill a huge venue, and I don't think he needs more time. Just the right kind of time.

So, um, it doesn't have to be *bad*.